i always manage to have at least one error in a post even when i think i've checked them all lol.
would you belive i have always had trouble with that one? i had spelled it that way at first but wasen't sure and went online to a list of the emperors and got both spellings and just went with the second one, i knew the meaning would get through.
as for pluto not being a planet im not sure thats all settled yet though im inclined to be with you on that, the last i read was they were going to keep pluto on the list of planets even though it was in question. but until its settled im sticking with the current nine.
i always manage to have at least one error in a post even when i think i've checked them all lol.
would you belive i have always had trouble with that one? i had spelled it that way at first but wasen't sure and went online to a list of the emperors and got both spellings and just went with the second one, i knew the meaning would get through.
as for pluto not being a planet im not sure thats all settled yet though im inclined to be with you on that, the last i read was they were going to keep pluto on the list of planets even though it was in question. but until its settled im sticking with the current nine.
I'm new here, and this may be a bit too argumentative , but doesn't this almost prove the point addabox presented? The fact that you can understand the concept of planets and the intricacies of how they are defined really is far more important to this situation than knowing which ones are in our universe, and which ones are defined as such.
Now, I am a high school senior in the Illinois (US) public school system.* In my (extremely limited) experience I have found the skill of research and critical analysis/thinking far more valuable than any ability to merely recite facts. In mathematics, for example, the reasoning required to derive a formula is much more important than the formula iteself. If you are able to create the formula, then you must understand it (theoretically speaking). This understadning, in turn, allows you to implement said equation to a more advanced degree, making it more useful. Of course, that doesn't mean facts like the ones you mentioned above are useless, but they lead to so much more when the significance behind them is actually understood.
*I actually do half home schooling for English and History but that is beside the point
Just to throw some gas on the fire, I'll bring up the idea of school choice.
To start, I believe in public schools and I have attended public schools.
But government bureaucracy eventually slows down any institution, and the school system has become a combat zone over funding models, union entrenchment and political hot potatoes.
The only thing I can see to apply some needed pressure is choice.
This can work out better for the public sector, as it has before.
In the 70's, everyone derided the post office for arrogant, poor, ridiculously slow service. Enter Fedex et al.
Today, I put a letter in a Canada Post box and it reaches it's destination within hours, not days. Post offices are clean and tidy and located in major malls. I haven't heard anyone complain about a lost package in years.
I want someone to pay at least that much attention to the education of the next generation of Canadians.
Under the idea of school choice, could you add partial privatization, maybe as an alternative model? What I mean by this is private, self regulated institutions, or at least districts, that are held to a set of government created guidelines aimed at preserving a certian quality of education. The trick, of course, is in settting those guidelines, especially in regard to educational content concerning controversial subjects, and enforcing them.
Finland is supposed to have one of the world's best public school systems. Well, if that's true, then things are really goddamn awful elsewhere.
What I learned there was how to be lazy. I pulled top-of-class scores by twiddling my thumbs most of the time and most of the subjects. Sitting there was largely pointless, and not just for myself but many others. Some subjects I intensely hated, because they were forced on us and teached in a way devoid of interest. Some of them I have returned to as an adult for curiosity (reading uni textbooks/laymen's books) and thus confirmed the problem was never the subject matter, but the teaching.
All the while, for many people in the class, some subjects were so horrendously difficult they should have never been forced to take them. A second foreign language, for instance. (Everyone has to take two.) What are a student's chances with the second if he is already struggling to pass the first foreign language?
If you trim away the excess fat like obsessing about historical dates, names, recognizing specific plants and animals, there's not that much a kid needs to know to grow up to be a functioning citizen. Reading, writing, a little number twiddling. Basics of laws and government. A tiny bit of geography, an even smaller bit of history, and biology with a strong focus on the human and health (nutrition/exercise/hygiene, a little bit of evolutionary psychology findings sprinkled on top... of course not labeled like that). You could sum this stuff up as "what you need to read and comprehend the newspaper and your fellow human beings".
Everything over that, you should not force-feed to a kid. They'll hate it, forget it quickly, and quite possibly never return to it. Even if otherwise in time they would have been interested in the subject. To teach specialized knowledge, the kid has to be interested, has to desire the knowledge. Until he does, off to work I say. If it's too early for that, then the best "general learning" would be a balance of physical hobbies, creative hobbies and group/teamwork activity and competition, like football, scouting, guitar, sewing etc. Few of these become a profession, but are very valuable nonetheless, much more than useless trivia that unfortunately seems the norm in schooling.
While working with the advanced, voluntary school material, at times the teacher naturally has to give commands and orders "You need to do this." or "You need to do more." but for that to work he needs to already command the student's like and respect, not unlike a parent. There has to be an underlying will of the student to learn, even if a strong word or two is sometimes used to get him going again.
It's very valuable to have one-on-one time between the teacher and the student. Even short periods make a huge difference. It's also fine for students to learn most stuff "alone". "Teamwork" slapped on top of an otherwise standard assignment is a surefire way to hinder the learning of most of the students.
There's no way to do this and have the necessary teacher-student attachment at a one-size fits all public school. If there is public school, it should be short and contain the very basics only. If there is still mandatory schooling after that (whether it is public, private or between) parents should get to pick the school.
In subjects that are not well suited to it, there should be little to no grading. If a student's focus is to enroll in next level education that has entrance exams, then the content of those entrance exams should be one focus of study in themselves, and mock-up exams should be conducted. Tests mid-school should be more of a tool for the teacher to fine-tune his teaching and for the student to tune his learning, not a yardstick of progress or worth at all. Both the tests and the teaching should be kept challenging at all times - therefore it would not be expected to get full marks on any test. To help the student reach this best personal performance, they should be taught learning techniques. These have been almost entirely absent from both my school and university experience. I have heard that there are forward-thinking universities and even high schools that do teach things like scheduling, note-taking, planning, reviewing and memory.
I'm new here, and this may be a bit too argumentative , but doesn't this almost prove the point addabox presented? The fact that you can understand the concept of planets and the intricacies of how they are defined really is far more important to this situation than knowing which ones are in our universe, and which ones are defined as such.
Now, I am a high school senior in the Illinois (US) public school system.* In my (extremely limited) experience I have found the skill of research and critical analysis/thinking far more valuable than any ability to merely recite facts. In mathematics, for example, the reasoning required to derive a formula is much more important than the formula iteself. If you are able to create the formula, then you must understand it (theoretically speaking). This understadning, in turn, allows you to implement said equation to a more advanced degree, making it more useful. Of course, that doesn't mean facts like the ones you mentioned above are useless, but they lead to so much more when the significance behind them is actually understood.
*I actually do half home schooling for English and History but that is beside the point
maybe its just my area, but the people i interact with could not construct the post you just did. the thinking is that they just stop learning after high school.
they have no intrest in reading AT ALL...
i see what you're saying but at least you have the intrest in "the skill of research and critical analysis/thinking" where they do not, and would consider that a waste of time. my feeling is that if they don't have the INTREST in learning the small facts, this indicates a lack of intrest in learning anything beyond what they shove at you in high school.
i go back to when i learned christoper columbus died of vd. i did not learn that in school (they didn't teach it, they just said he died) i learned that at the library after i left high school because i have a love of reading about anything.
i belive learning new things should continue throughout your life. and not end at high school.
Seriously though, Americans are bred to be idiots. What did you expect?
And yet we rule the world, how about that? 8)
I think that we have a problem with education - our public education system was designed to crank out factory workers who do not question or think too much, and now we have no more factories to work them in.
If we want to continue leading the world in creativity (which we have in the 20th century, no doubt at all), then I think that we need a voucher system that puts the education of children into a less uniform mould.
Comments
Originally posted by futuremac
1-dont know the names of all 9 (current) planets or even that we have nine.
[smartass]
We have either 8 or 10. Pluto isn't really a planet, it is an kuiper belt object.
But if you are going to count Pluto, then you kind of have to count the 10th one, Sedna, which is larger than Pluto.
[\\smartass]
Originally posted by shetline
That's Julius Caesar.
i always manage to have at least one error in a post even when i think i've checked them all lol.
would you belive i have always had trouble with that one? i had spelled it that way at first but wasen't sure and went online to a list of the emperors and got both spellings and just went with the second one, i knew the meaning would get through.
as for pluto not being a planet im not sure thats all settled yet though im inclined to be with you on that, the last i read was they were going to keep pluto on the list of planets even though it was in question. but until its settled im sticking with the current nine.
Originally posted by e1618978
[smartass]
We have either 8 or 10. Pluto isn't really a planet, it is an kuiper belt object.
But if you are going to count Pluto, then you kind of have to count the 10th one, Sedna, which is larger than Pluto.
[\\smartass]
Do not. There's such a thing as seniority, you know.
Let Sedna fare for itself. I mean, it's named after an Inuit goddess, and has no business horning in on the Roman pantheon.
Originally posted by futuremac
i always manage to have at least one error in a post even when i think i've checked them all lol.
would you belive i have always had trouble with that one? i had spelled it that way at first but wasen't sure and went online to a list of the emperors and got both spellings and just went with the second one, i knew the meaning would get through.
as for pluto not being a planet im not sure thats all settled yet though im inclined to be with you on that, the last i read was they were going to keep pluto on the list of planets even though it was in question. but until its settled im sticking with the current nine.
I'm new here, and this may be a bit too argumentative
Now, I am a high school senior in the Illinois (US) public school system.* In my (extremely limited) experience I have found the skill of research and critical analysis/thinking far more valuable than any ability to merely recite facts. In mathematics, for example, the reasoning required to derive a formula is much more important than the formula iteself. If you are able to create the formula, then you must understand it (theoretically speaking). This understadning, in turn, allows you to implement said equation to a more advanced degree, making it more useful. Of course, that doesn't mean facts like the ones you mentioned above are useless, but they lead to so much more when the significance behind them is actually understood.
*I actually do half home schooling for English and History but that is beside the point
AppleInsider is all about taking a stand on semantics and sticking to it what may.
I mean, it's not quite semantics, but there's a poll right now on the spelling of grey/gray!!!
--B
To start, I believe in public schools and I have attended public schools.
But government bureaucracy eventually slows down any institution, and the school system has become a combat zone over funding models, union entrenchment and political hot potatoes.
The only thing I can see to apply some needed pressure is choice.
This can work out better for the public sector, as it has before.
In the 70's, everyone derided the post office for arrogant, poor, ridiculously slow service. Enter Fedex et al.
Today, I put a letter in a Canada Post box and it reaches it's destination within hours, not days. Post offices are clean and tidy and located in major malls. I haven't heard anyone complain about a lost package in years.
I want someone to pay at least that much attention to the education of the next generation of Canadians.
Anyways, just a thought.
What I learned there was how to be lazy. I pulled top-of-class scores by twiddling my thumbs most of the time and most of the subjects. Sitting there was largely pointless, and not just for myself but many others. Some subjects I intensely hated, because they were forced on us and teached in a way devoid of interest. Some of them I have returned to as an adult for curiosity (reading uni textbooks/laymen's books) and thus confirmed the problem was never the subject matter, but the teaching.
All the while, for many people in the class, some subjects were so horrendously difficult they should have never been forced to take them. A second foreign language, for instance. (Everyone has to take two.) What are a student's chances with the second if he is already struggling to pass the first foreign language?
If you trim away the excess fat like obsessing about historical dates, names, recognizing specific plants and animals, there's not that much a kid needs to know to grow up to be a functioning citizen. Reading, writing, a little number twiddling. Basics of laws and government. A tiny bit of geography, an even smaller bit of history, and biology with a strong focus on the human and health (nutrition/exercise/hygiene, a little bit of evolutionary psychology findings sprinkled on top... of course not labeled like that). You could sum this stuff up as "what you need to read and comprehend the newspaper and your fellow human beings".
Everything over that, you should not force-feed to a kid. They'll hate it, forget it quickly, and quite possibly never return to it. Even if otherwise in time they would have been interested in the subject. To teach specialized knowledge, the kid has to be interested, has to desire the knowledge. Until he does, off to work I say. If it's too early for that, then the best "general learning" would be a balance of physical hobbies, creative hobbies and group/teamwork activity and competition, like football, scouting, guitar, sewing etc. Few of these become a profession, but are very valuable nonetheless, much more than useless trivia that unfortunately seems the norm in schooling.
While working with the advanced, voluntary school material, at times the teacher naturally has to give commands and orders "You need to do this." or "You need to do more." but for that to work he needs to already command the student's like and respect, not unlike a parent. There has to be an underlying will of the student to learn, even if a strong word or two is sometimes used to get him going again.
It's very valuable to have one-on-one time between the teacher and the student. Even short periods make a huge difference. It's also fine for students to learn most stuff "alone". "Teamwork" slapped on top of an otherwise standard assignment is a surefire way to hinder the learning of most of the students.
There's no way to do this and have the necessary teacher-student attachment at a one-size fits all public school. If there is public school, it should be short and contain the very basics only. If there is still mandatory schooling after that (whether it is public, private or between) parents should get to pick the school.
In subjects that are not well suited to it, there should be little to no grading. If a student's focus is to enroll in next level education that has entrance exams, then the content of those entrance exams should be one focus of study in themselves, and mock-up exams should be conducted. Tests mid-school should be more of a tool for the teacher to fine-tune his teaching and for the student to tune his learning, not a yardstick of progress or worth at all. Both the tests and the teaching should be kept challenging at all times - therefore it would not be expected to get full marks on any test. To help the student reach this best personal performance, they should be taught learning techniques. These have been almost entirely absent from both my school and university experience. I have heard that there are forward-thinking universities and even high schools that do teach things like scheduling, note-taking, planning, reviewing and memory.
Phew. I this a huge ass post or what.
Originally posted by Lupa
I'm new here, and this may be a bit too argumentative
Now, I am a high school senior in the Illinois (US) public school system.* In my (extremely limited) experience I have found the skill of research and critical analysis/thinking far more valuable than any ability to merely recite facts. In mathematics, for example, the reasoning required to derive a formula is much more important than the formula iteself. If you are able to create the formula, then you must understand it (theoretically speaking). This understadning, in turn, allows you to implement said equation to a more advanced degree, making it more useful. Of course, that doesn't mean facts like the ones you mentioned above are useless, but they lead to so much more when the significance behind them is actually understood.
*I actually do half home schooling for English and History but that is beside the point
maybe its just my area, but the people i interact with could not construct the post you just did. the thinking is that they just stop learning after high school.
they have no intrest in reading AT ALL...
i see what you're saying but at least you have the intrest in "the skill of research and critical analysis/thinking" where they do not, and would consider that a waste of time. my feeling is that if they don't have the INTREST in learning the small facts, this indicates a lack of intrest in learning anything beyond what they shove at you in high school.
i go back to when i learned christoper columbus died of vd. i did not learn that in school (they didn't teach it, they just said he died) i learned that at the library after i left high school because i have a love of reading about anything.
i belive learning new things should continue throughout your life. and not end at high school.
Originally posted by 709
Seriously though, Americans are bred to be idiots. What did you expect?
Originally posted by 709
Seriously though, Americans are bred to be idiots. What did you expect?
And yet we rule the world, how about that? 8)
I think that we have a problem with education - our public education system was designed to crank out factory workers who do not question or think too much, and now we have no more factories to work them in.
If we want to continue leading the world in creativity (which we have in the 20th century, no doubt at all), then I think that we need a voucher system that puts the education of children into a less uniform mould.