This is why we contacted iPodResQ to verify that the problem exists and is growing. So unless Creative and MS are buying boxes of nanos, breaking them, and then sending them to iPodResQ for repair, I think you can discount the FUD assumption at least partially.
Best,
Kasper
This is the glaring fact that so many people who dismiss this story immediately never seem to address in their replies.
I, too, went to my local Best Buy yesterday (after already hearing about the problem). Yes, the nano had tiny less-than-hairline scratches in the plastic, but the screen was perfectly readable. When the backlight turned off, it did make it harder to read...but who looks at photos and navigates their iPod with the backlight off.
I think it does make sense, however, that the scratches are more noticable on a black nano.
EDIT: As far as durability goes, I'm seeing a discrepancy between the Ars Technica article mentioned above (linked to around here somewhere) and these reports. I guess, however, I could see someone bending the nano with enough pressure (while sitting) to effectively crack the outer plastic. But then again, you torque anything that small with that much force and something is bound to go bad.
If I did the same thing, I'd blame myself for being such an idiot to subject something that small to those forces. I would not expect for Apple to fix my idiocy.
Another customer said: "Last night I broke my 2GB black iPod while it was simply sitting in my pocket. I was destroyed over it considering I sacrificed my whole paycheck for it."
Is he kidding? If you take home only $13k per year, you shouldn't be blowing $250 on a gadget.
Quote:
"I received my black 4GB nano on the 23rd (of Sept.) and already it looks like it's been through a sandpaper factory," said one customer. "Like many other users I have been very careful with it and it has not been in any pockets with anything else."
Does this user think his/her pocket is pristine? Anyone who's ever done laundry knows that pockets collect dirt along with lint. Dirt, either loose or embedded in the fabric, makes a good abrasive.
That said, Apple really should add a hardcoat to the Nano face. It wouldn't add much production cost, perhaps 25¢ to 75¢ per unit. Silica-filled polysiloxane would be a good choice. And it would have been nice if Apple had kept the aluminum case from the Mini, but that's water under the bridge.
Could someone please explain why my nano is covered with scratches, after 3 days, when it:
1) has never been in a pocket with anything else, and
2) has never been in contact with any rings (as I don't wear one)
Apparently denim and cotton pockets are enough to mar it.
<edit> On second thought, it was in the same pocket as my paycheque ... perhaps it's covered in paper cuts.
Is the nano your first iPod? If not, are you saying that the nano is more prone to scratches than previous iPods? If it is, what do you mean by scratches? Hairline scratches that become visible only when you have light on it at a certain angle? Or scratch scratch that obliterates text in the screen? Why don't you upload a photo somewhere so that we can really discuss how you may have gotten those 'scratches' when, presumably, you have done nothing that should cause any scratches.
"I think you can discount the FUD assumption at least partially."
I never said that there were no issues about the screen. I never claimed that it was pure FUD. I was already including really broken screen in my assumption. So I don't think it discounts anything in my mind from my previous stance on it.
As for iPodResQ, they sure like to have their name associated with a story like this. Again, I'm not saying that they are lying, but I would sure like to have more details about this. It's hard to exactly correlate the number of broken screen nanos they receive with the durability of the nano. Maybe they simply have more successful advertising than before? How does these problems compare with the mini and other iPods? I remember a few stories about broken mini screens when it was released, people that have sat on them.
Also I begin to see confusion between reported scratched screens and broken screens stories. I would expect broken screen to be much more rare than scratched screens. People that broke their screen sat on their nano because it's very small and easy to forget in a pocket. As for the scratches, are the nano really easier to scratch than full size iPods and mini screens? I don't see news article dealing about this.
Maybe Ars Technica is responsible for giving the impression that you could sit on the nano
So one last time, I'm not saying that there are no issues, but the iPod having so much competition (and hate) from others, It's obvious that they would want to add oil to the fire. As I mentioned, MS execs don't seem to have ethical problems with that.
It always seems like some people lose their critical sense when things like that happen, and everyone could just go on and add their own fake story to the mix without any fear of being caught. Anyone who would doubt these stories is labeled as a "paranoid Apple fanboy". Just like me probably
The whole scratch thing IMHO is all fluff. It's the same plastic as other iPods. The only reason I can see that there would be more scratch complaints is because the screen is smaller, and a scratch looks bigger on a small screen, than it does on a big one. That's really the only difference the nano has over other iPods.
Now the LCD cracking may have more validity. I was comparing my 40GB Photo with the nano, and it looks like the LCD screen on the nano MAY be closer to the plastic surface than it is on the iPod Photo. Basically, deeper behind the plastic.
Not sure, if it is or not, but it looks to me like it is. And if it is, pressure on the plastic may crack the screen more easily.
I agree that they need to have Some durability, but this article does not make it crystal clear how much people abuse the nanos or how weak the nano is physically (or whether there is a common flaw in some units, which is always a possibility)... One thing that is clear, however, is that putting the ipod in a pocket then taking it back out a moment later will not break the nano's lcd, unless you have a very viscous pocket. The thing is, we do not know who is resphonsible at this point, due to a lack of information.
A website tested the nano and drove over one with a car and it still worked! That seems pretty durable to me.
I know that Apple is a beloved company, but I find it hard to believe the lengths people go to for this company.
The fourth generation iPod has the SAME issue.
Take one apart. It looks like they put very little
thought into the design.
I haven't taken apart a Nano, but if you look at a
4th Generation iPod the LCD is supported by the frame
of the iPod. If you torque, twist, or put force on the
frame most of it will ripple through the screen. They
put no protection in front or back of the screen.
Also, placing the audio jack behind the screen was a
very dumb move. Can you say 'stress point?'
Drop your iPod from about 3 feet with the headphones
plugged in and have it land on or near the headphone
jack. See how long the screen lasts. It won't matter
if you have a cover on it or not. That's how my wife
broke hers. I expected to see a bunch of scratches and
abuse. I really didn't believe her at first. She told
me it fell out of her purse. She is only 4' 11" tall.
How far could it have fallen?
I asked if she had the cover on it.
When I looked at it then I noticed there was a crack
that points directly to the audio jack.
Took it apart and discovered why...
I notice many times that people say that reviewers of
competing products tend to say what others consumers are
saying. I notice this is very true of Apple products as
well. How come you don't have professional reviews that
point out these flaws?
I was very disappointed in my purchase of the 4th Gen
iPod. Several of these issues should have been worked
out by now.
Even the standard headphone and remote jacks do not
have proper strain relief. Give one to your wife or
kid and let them wrap it around the iPod a few times.
See how long it is before they notice clicking or
static. Then wiggle the wire right near the jack.
Notice the static...
As far as the battery goes...
Apple is getting worse, not better.
How do you seriously sell a product like this to
consumers where the battery is soldered to the board
inside? Talk about a pain in the you know what to replace.
Oh, that's right...
Just buy a new one.
The testing by Ars Technia (spelling?), should be removed.
They don't clearly post their methods of test.
They don't seem to be following any kind of technical procedure.
They aren't testing it in a configuration that a consumer would use.
For example.
Did they drop it screen down or up?
(Pictures often show them as holding the Nano with the screen up.)
Did they drop it on the corners?
If so, how many times?
From what distances?
Again, was the screen side hitting the pavement?
How did it hit the pavement?
Any stress diagrams?
Why are there no headphones attached?
What if I attach a clip?
What if I have something attached to the docking connector?
I know people are going to probably blast me for this post, but if you don't demand better products you won't get them.
Also, I would like to see less bias in reviews and posts on Apple products. They do make mistakes. Appelinsier is pretty good about balance. That's why I come here first.
However, my feeling on this one...
Is not that it is a mistake, but a lack of concern for their customer. Their products get praised by everyone regardless, and Apple seems to know it. Hence, it is more profitable for them to be lax about these things.
I think some going into owning personal electronics have the wrong expectations. When I bought my iPod, I didn't expect that I could sit on it, drop it on its headphone jack, have a battery that will last forever, be able to withstand a drop onto concrete, or any number of other potential abuses. If an iPod can withstand those with flying colors, GREAT! I know better than to expect it, though, even for a device that's a couple hundred dollars.
When you think about it, the coin pocket is probably the absolute worst place for it. It's higher up than the regular pocket so when you sit down the iPod nano is being "bent" between your thigh and waist. It's under enormous pressure. I'm surprised they are not snapping in half. It would be safer in the regular pocket though I personally would never put it there either. I would get a protective case for it.
They are going to have to beef it up structurally up or come up with a disclaimer. Do not chew-- er, do not put in coin pocket. Kind of hard to do when Steve Jobs himself pulled it out of his coin pocket at the special event though.
No company would ever promise "survives your pocket no matter what happens to it there." And no consumer should ever think that.
You can pocket something so force is put on it, or you can pocket it safely.
Back pockets or tight pockets--bad. Pockets with keys or coins--bad. Full-size front pocket all by itself--good. Common sense.
Steve putting it in the coin pocket was a clever unveiling, that's all. It's not part of the overall marketing of the product. Most buyers aren't aware of WHAT Steve did, much less emulating him.
Plus, online forums are where people go to complain--any forum for any product will make failures seem more common than reality.
That's my feeling on the LCD cracking when force is applied.
Now, re scratching easily: of COURSE plastic scratches, and of course glossy plastic shows it more--especially in black. BUT...if the plastic is truly a DIFFERENT, cheaper material than the other iPods use (I'm not convinced yet), and is even easier to scratch than they are, than I'd wish Apple had charged a higher price and used the same plastic as my full-size iPod. If nothing else, now that the issue has come up, I'd expect them to make that improvement when component prices come down to compensate for more costly plastic.
Meanwhile, Radio Shack sells packs of camera-screen-protector sheets for $5. Cheap and effective protection from casual scratching. My full-size iPod has one, and it's a great addition to my sleeve case. I recommend this to anyone with a plastic iPod.
It's common sense. Why should Apple have to replace broken LCDs because a user is lacks the common sense necessary to care for their $250 investment? Seriously, haven't these people ever heard of a protective carry case? If I were to spend $250 on anything, I would do everything I could to make sure it remained in pristine condition for as long as physically possible. I would never even think to just throw a Nano in my pocket or into a bag, unprotected.
I almost wholeheartedly agree, but the only problem is, the nanoTubes aren't even available yet. The only real protection against potential collision would be rubber, not a makeshift case like a sock; but, Apple failed to get that out on the market right away, or include a belt clip or such (probably because, you know, the thing was meant to go in your pocket as is). I bought an armband today because I want to protect my nano while cases are still unavailable and the danger of LCD cracking persists.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kolchak
Is he kidding? If you take home only $13k per year, you shouldn't be blowing $250 on a gadget.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you're in any position to say that. Even for people who make three times that amount, it's still a very considerable investment and Apple should be happy the customer was considerate enough to spend a good part of his or her hard earned paycheck on the nano.
Comments
Originally posted by Kasper
Welp,
This is why we contacted iPodResQ to verify that the problem exists and is growing. So unless Creative and MS are buying boxes of nanos, breaking them, and then sending them to iPodResQ for repair, I think you can discount the FUD assumption at least partially.
Best,
Kasper
This is the glaring fact that so many people who dismiss this story immediately never seem to address in their replies.
I think it does make sense, however, that the scratches are more noticable on a black nano.
EDIT: As far as durability goes, I'm seeing a discrepancy between the Ars Technica article mentioned above (linked to around here somewhere) and these reports. I guess, however, I could see someone bending the nano with enough pressure (while sitting) to effectively crack the outer plastic. But then again, you torque anything that small with that much force and something is bound to go bad.
If I did the same thing, I'd blame myself for being such an idiot to subject something that small to those forces. I would not expect for Apple to fix my idiocy.
1) has never been in a pocket with anything else, and
2) has never been in contact with any rings (as I don't wear one)
Apparently denim and cotton pockets are enough to mar it.
<edit> On second thought, it was in the same pocket as my paycheque ... perhaps it's covered in paper cuts.
Another customer said: "Last night I broke my 2GB black iPod while it was simply sitting in my pocket. I was destroyed over it considering I sacrificed my whole paycheck for it."
Is he kidding? If you take home only $13k per year, you shouldn't be blowing $250 on a gadget.
"I received my black 4GB nano on the 23rd (of Sept.) and already it looks like it's been through a sandpaper factory," said one customer. "Like many other users I have been very careful with it and it has not been in any pockets with anything else."
Does this user think his/her pocket is pristine? Anyone who's ever done laundry knows that pockets collect dirt along with lint. Dirt, either loose or embedded in the fabric, makes a good abrasive.
That said, Apple really should add a hardcoat to the Nano face. It wouldn't add much production cost, perhaps 25¢ to 75¢ per unit. Silica-filled polysiloxane would be a good choice. And it would have been nice if Apple had kept the aluminum case from the Mini, but that's water under the bridge.
Think there's a difference in the scratch-ability of the white versus black nanos? Anyone with a U2 iPod care to chime in?
Note: I posted this in the other thread (they should be merged!), but I thought it deserved a re-post here.
Originally posted by audiopollution
Could someone please explain why my nano is covered with scratches, after 3 days, when it:
1) has never been in a pocket with anything else, and
2) has never been in contact with any rings (as I don't wear one)
Apparently denim and cotton pockets are enough to mar it.
<edit> On second thought, it was in the same pocket as my paycheque ... perhaps it's covered in paper cuts.
Is the nano your first iPod? If not, are you saying that the nano is more prone to scratches than previous iPods? If it is, what do you mean by scratches? Hairline scratches that become visible only when you have light on it at a certain angle? Or scratch scratch that obliterates text in the screen? Why don't you upload a photo somewhere so that we can really discuss how you may have gotten those 'scratches' when, presumably, you have done nothing that should cause any scratches.
I never said that there were no issues about the screen. I never claimed that it was pure FUD. I was already including really broken screen in my assumption. So I don't think it discounts anything in my mind from my previous stance on it.
As for iPodResQ, they sure like to have their name associated with a story like this. Again, I'm not saying that they are lying, but I would sure like to have more details about this. It's hard to exactly correlate the number of broken screen nanos they receive with the durability of the nano. Maybe they simply have more successful advertising than before? How does these problems compare with the mini and other iPods? I remember a few stories about broken mini screens when it was released, people that have sat on them.
Also I begin to see confusion between reported scratched screens and broken screens stories. I would expect broken screen to be much more rare than scratched screens. People that broke their screen sat on their nano because it's very small and easy to forget in a pocket. As for the scratches, are the nano really easier to scratch than full size iPods and mini screens? I don't see news article dealing about this.
Maybe Ars Technica is responsible for giving the impression that you could sit on the nano
So one last time, I'm not saying that there are no issues, but the iPod having so much competition (and hate) from others, It's obvious that they would want to add oil to the fire. As I mentioned, MS execs don't seem to have ethical problems with that.
It always seems like some people lose their critical sense when things like that happen, and everyone could just go on and add their own fake story to the mix without any fear of being caught. Anyone who would doubt these stories is labeled as a "paranoid Apple fanboy". Just like me probably
Now the LCD cracking may have more validity. I was comparing my 40GB Photo with the nano, and it looks like the LCD screen on the nano MAY be closer to the plastic surface than it is on the iPod Photo. Basically, deeper behind the plastic.
Not sure, if it is or not, but it looks to me like it is. And if it is, pressure on the plastic may crack the screen more easily.
1) LCD is cracked and broken.
2) Plastic face of iPod nano has scratches and is hazed by them.
The main issue is with #1. Look at this site to see the cracked and broken LCDs.
I'm not canceling my order. I looked at the nanos in the apple store long and hard. I'm still buying.
Most people are morons and wear tight jeans!
I wear them and my iPod is fine. I think the nano might actually have a problem. Did you see those pictures?
Originally posted by Lupa
I agree that they need to have Some durability, but this article does not make it crystal clear how much people abuse the nanos or how weak the nano is physically (or whether there is a common flaw in some units, which is always a possibility)... One thing that is clear, however, is that putting the ipod in a pocket then taking it back out a moment later will not break the nano's lcd, unless you have a very viscous pocket. The thing is, we do not know who is resphonsible at this point, due to a lack of information.
A website tested the nano and drove over one with a car and it still worked! That seems pretty durable to me.
Over on Apple's support forums, the company appears to be deleting comments concerning broken iPod nano LCD screens as they appear.
This seems to be a tactic of Apple in regards to customer support: *lift rug*, *apply broom* - "What problem?"
The same thing they did with the failing lower memory slots on Aluminium Powerbooks.
I used to be a hugely loyal supporter of Apple.
Oh and - I don't wear tight jeans - I'm stuck somewhere back in '99.
M
I know that Apple is a beloved company, but I find it hard to believe the lengths people go to for this company.
The fourth generation iPod has the SAME issue.
Take one apart. It looks like they put very little
thought into the design.
I haven't taken apart a Nano, but if you look at a
4th Generation iPod the LCD is supported by the frame
of the iPod. If you torque, twist, or put force on the
frame most of it will ripple through the screen. They
put no protection in front or back of the screen.
Also, placing the audio jack behind the screen was a
very dumb move. Can you say 'stress point?'
Drop your iPod from about 3 feet with the headphones
plugged in and have it land on or near the headphone
jack. See how long the screen lasts. It won't matter
if you have a cover on it or not. That's how my wife
broke hers. I expected to see a bunch of scratches and
abuse. I really didn't believe her at first. She told
me it fell out of her purse. She is only 4' 11" tall.
How far could it have fallen?
I asked if she had the cover on it.
When I looked at it then I noticed there was a crack
that points directly to the audio jack.
Took it apart and discovered why...
I notice many times that people say that reviewers of
competing products tend to say what others consumers are
saying. I notice this is very true of Apple products as
well. How come you don't have professional reviews that
point out these flaws?
I was very disappointed in my purchase of the 4th Gen
iPod. Several of these issues should have been worked
out by now.
Even the standard headphone and remote jacks do not
have proper strain relief. Give one to your wife or
kid and let them wrap it around the iPod a few times.
See how long it is before they notice clicking or
static. Then wiggle the wire right near the jack.
Notice the static...
As far as the battery goes...
Apple is getting worse, not better.
How do you seriously sell a product like this to
consumers where the battery is soldered to the board
inside? Talk about a pain in the you know what to replace.
Oh, that's right...
Just buy a new one.
The testing by Ars Technia (spelling?), should be removed.
They don't clearly post their methods of test.
They don't seem to be following any kind of technical procedure.
They aren't testing it in a configuration that a consumer would use.
For example.
Did they drop it screen down or up?
(Pictures often show them as holding the Nano with the screen up.)
Did they drop it on the corners?
If so, how many times?
From what distances?
Again, was the screen side hitting the pavement?
How did it hit the pavement?
Any stress diagrams?
Why are there no headphones attached?
What if I attach a clip?
What if I have something attached to the docking connector?
I know people are going to probably blast me for this post, but if you don't demand better products you won't get them.
Also, I would like to see less bias in reviews and posts on Apple products. They do make mistakes. Appelinsier is pretty good about balance. That's why I come here first.
However, my feeling on this one...
Is not that it is a mistake, but a lack of concern for their customer. Their products get praised by everyone regardless, and Apple seems to know it. Hence, it is more profitable for them to be lax about these things.
Regards,
Ocriss
Originally posted by neonazarite
This seems to be a tactic of Apple in regards to customer support: *lift rug*, *apply broom* - "What problem?"
The same thing they did with the failing lower memory slots on Aluminium Powerbooks.
I used to be a hugely loyal supporter of Apple.
Oh and - I don't wear tight jeans - I'm stuck somewhere back in '99.
M
They even did the same thing with the original iMac and the analog board.
When you think about it, the coin pocket is probably the absolute worst place for it. It's higher up than the regular pocket so when you sit down the iPod nano is being "bent" between your thigh and waist. It's under enormous pressure. I'm surprised they are not snapping in half. It would be safer in the regular pocket though I personally would never put it there either. I would get a protective case for it.
They are going to have to beef it up structurally up or come up with a disclaimer. Do not chew-- er, do not put in coin pocket. Kind of hard to do when Steve Jobs himself pulled it out of his coin pocket at the special event though.
You can pocket something so force is put on it, or you can pocket it safely.
Back pockets or tight pockets--bad. Pockets with keys or coins--bad. Full-size front pocket all by itself--good. Common sense.
Steve putting it in the coin pocket was a clever unveiling, that's all. It's not part of the overall marketing of the product. Most buyers aren't aware of WHAT Steve did, much less emulating him.
Plus, online forums are where people go to complain--any forum for any product will make failures seem more common than reality.
That's my feeling on the LCD cracking when force is applied.
Now, re scratching easily: of COURSE plastic scratches, and of course glossy plastic shows it more--especially in black. BUT...if the plastic is truly a DIFFERENT, cheaper material than the other iPods use (I'm not convinced yet), and is even easier to scratch than they are, than I'd wish Apple had charged a higher price and used the same plastic as my full-size iPod. If nothing else, now that the issue has come up, I'd expect them to make that improvement when component prices come down to compensate for more costly plastic.
Meanwhile, Radio Shack sells packs of camera-screen-protector sheets for $5. Cheap and effective protection from casual scratching. My full-size iPod has one, and it's a great addition to my sleeve case. I recommend this to anyone with a plastic iPod.
Originally posted by Rhoq
Lupa, you had it right the first time.
It's common sense. Why should Apple have to replace broken LCDs because a user is lacks the common sense necessary to care for their $250 investment? Seriously, haven't these people ever heard of a protective carry case? If I were to spend $250 on anything, I would do everything I could to make sure it remained in pristine condition for as long as physically possible. I would never even think to just throw a Nano in my pocket or into a bag, unprotected.
I almost wholeheartedly agree, but the only problem is, the nanoTubes aren't even available yet. The only real protection against potential collision would be rubber, not a makeshift case like a sock; but, Apple failed to get that out on the market right away, or include a belt clip or such (probably because, you know, the thing was meant to go in your pocket as is). I bought an armband today because I want to protect my nano while cases are still unavailable and the danger of LCD cracking persists.
Originally posted by Kolchak
Is he kidding? If you take home only $13k per year, you shouldn't be blowing $250 on a gadget.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you're in any position to say that. Even for people who make three times that amount, it's still a very considerable investment and Apple should be happy the customer was considerate enough to spend a good part of his or her hard earned paycheck on the nano.