No company would ever promise "survives your pocket no matter what happens to it there." And no consumer should ever think that.
Steve putting it in the coin pocket was a clever unveiling, that's all. It's not part of the overall marketing of the product. Most buyers aren't aware of WHAT Steve did, much less emulating him.
Now, re scratching easily: of COURSE plastic scratches, and of course glossy plastic shows it more--especially in black. BUT...if the plastic is truly a DIFFERENT, cheaper material than the other iPods use (I'm not convinced yet), and is even easier to scratch than they are, than I'd wish Apple had charged a higher price and used the same plastic as my full-size iPod. If nothing else, now that the issue has come up, I'd expect them to make that improvement when component prices come down to compensate for more costly plastic.
Two points I'd like to make. First about Steve....
The CEO of Apple at a public media event pointed to his coin pocket and said "Did you ever wonder what this pocket is for?" and then proceded to pull out the new Nano. Now what are we supposed to make of that? Well, my guess would be that it's okay to carry a nano in your pocket.. Furthermore, the marketing slogan for the Nano is "1000 songs in your pocket." If Apple had not intended for people to be pocketing their Nano's then they are truly sending the wrong message.
Secondly, the scratches.
Yes, all plastic will scratch. it's a given. However there are different levels of durablility for plastics and the Nano IS NOT, and I repeat, NOT even remotely as durable when it comes to scratch resistance as previous iPods. Steve Jobs said himself in Time Magazine that everything on the Nano is a new ground up design with none of the materials carried over from previous iPods.
These scratch complaints are legitimate. The Nano surface is so delicate that a fricking Kleenex will scratch the surface, putting the Nano in a cotton shirt pocket will leave scratches. It does not take negligence to make this thing look terrible. Yes, they are hairline scratches, but after very little time the scratches begin to make the display unreadable. Almost as if sandpaper has been rubbed against the surface.
This is unacceptable for a consumer electronic device. A proper case will surely protect from these scratches, but Apple released the Nano more than a month before any cases are even available. And if a case is required to keep the display on a nano readable (which it is) then it should not be an optional accessory, it should be included in the box.
Question: Has anyone here experienced any of the problems regarding, especially, screens scratched beyond recognition? And can they post any pictures as proof of this, explaining to us how this has affected there use of iPod.
I've seen the iPods at Apple stores and they do have scratches (thousands of people playing with them, putting them through their paces, and dropping them back unto hard wooden surfaces). I've never thought to use an iPod without the backlight on, so I'm assuming this has nothing to do with the problem, but as soon as you press the nano clickwheel the backlight comes on and everything, in my experience, is clearly visible.
Could someone please explain why my nano is covered with scratches, after 3 days, when it:
1) has never been in a pocket with anything else, and
2) has never been in contact with any rings (as I don't wear one)
Apparently denim and cotton pockets are enough to mar it.
<edit> On second thought, it was in the same pocket as my paycheque ... perhaps it's covered in paper cuts.
That's funny. But deleting "complaints" from Apple forums seems a bit extreme. Especially with the price of replacement screens, etc. If the Nano is just a pricey Christmas gift, then rich kids can buy another (newer) model when anything goes wrong. But when you're spending a paycheck on a music player, you don't really expect to pay half the price again to fix a scratched screen.
Also I agree with the poster who said they bought their Nano in part because of Jobs's "demo" on the 7th of this month... that's great promotion. The product had better live up to the promotion!
Someone from that site linked above claims they packed the nano in its original packaging, slipped the box into their carry-on bag, and went on a flight. When they pulled the nano out the screen had a "palm tree effect" on screen.
Are you f*cking kidding me? I DO NOT believe that packing the nano in its box inside a carry-on bag would damage the nano. What are these people doing?
i used to get the palm-tree effect (no screen cracking though) with my handspring visor when i put it in my pockets and ocassionally sat on it. i'm not being a smartass, just sharing my experience. i used to treat my palms and handsprings real bad
in 1993-94 my sharp digital organiser-thingy survived a one story drop. screen was okay as well.
oh then in 1996 i accidentally stepped on my pc 486dx laptop and that was the end of that screen...
It was kept in my jeans pocket, and I was sitting and standing with it."
I sat on my iPod and it broke, and it's Apple's fault? Why would you pay $250.00 for something, then sit on it?
~~~~
Also on your fascinating page, an email from someone who said Steve Jobs did NOT take the Nano out of his pocket, that he (the sender) was "there" in Paris on September 7th.
Does this mean that the Quicktime presentation of the Nano was "edited" to make it appear that it didn't scratch or malfunction so easily??? I saw Jobs make a joke about the "other" pocket in his five-pocket jeans. I thought I saw him pull the Next Big Thing out of his own pocket.
Now I am really not sure. Sort of reminds me of "Who are you gonna believe -- me? Or your lying eyes?"
So it's a piece of crap, and Apple is making a hundred-dollar margin on it? Un freaking believable.
THEY'RE NOT MAKING A 100 DOLLAR MARGIN!
Forr goodness sake! Pay attention!
However, it may be a peice of crap.
They have to factor in design, product testing, moulding, prototypes (very expensive), shipping, packaging, marketing and a host of other things that I foget but need to be done that aren't included in production costs. Also Jonathan Ive's wage is probably pretty hefty.
They are making a $100 margin. It doesn't matter how that $100 is used internally; it's the fact that it's about two times what many comparable devices net.
They are making a $100 margin. It doesn't matter how that $100 is used internally; it's the fact that it's about two times what many comparable devices net.
$100 margin then.
I give in.
If they've managed to produce something that gives twice the margin than other people make, so what?
Take one apart. It looks like they put very little
thought into the design.
Apple put plenty of thought into the design, as they do ALL of their products. That's why people love them so much.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ocriss33324
I haven't taken apart a Nano, but if you look at a
4th Generation iPod the LCD is supported by the frame
of the iPod. If you torque, twist, or put force on the
frame most of it will ripple through the screen. They
put no protection in front or back of the screen.
Also, placing the audio jack behind the screen was a
very dumb move. Can you say 'stress point?'
I'm sorry, I have a 4G, I tried twisting and putting force on the frame, it didn't budge. Nothing whatsoever happened to the screen. The frame is VERY solid. And is apple supposed to move the audio jack to a less convenient location so that the .01 percent of users won't have to worry about dropping it on the headphone jack?
Quote:
Originally posted by Ocriss33324
Even the standard headphone and remote jacks do not
have proper strain relief. Give one to your wife or
kid and let them wrap it around the iPod a few times.
See how long it is before they notice clicking or
static. Then wiggle the wire right near the jack.
Notice the static...
The iPod earphones are the most durable I've ever owned. I take mine, and wrap it around my fingers into a loop, and then wrap the cord around the loop several times and basically tie it up with the cord. I've never had any problems with the earphones. They've lasted far longer than other headphones, and I've owned quite a few.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ocriss33324
As far as the battery goes...
Apple is getting worse, not better.
How do you seriously sell a product like this to
consumers where the battery is soldered to the board
inside? Talk about a pain in the you know what to replace.
Oh, that's right...
Just buy a new one.
They have an iPod battery replacement program, as do a few other 3rd parties. Also, having no way to open it up and change batteries contributes to its sleek, cool look, which has made it popular.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ocriss33324
However, my feeling on this one...
Is not that it is a mistake, but a lack of concern for their customer. Their products get praised by everyone regardless, and Apple seems to know it. Hence, it is more profitable for them to be lax about these things.
Their products get praised for good reason, they're well made, innovative, and of the highest quality. If you don't like it by a RIO!!!!
The apple apologists are simply hilarious in this thread, automatically saying apple good, customer bad.
Most customers are stupid. Especcially americans (I'm an american BTW), they refuse to take responsibility for anything. They always have to blame somebody other than themselves.
I think the whole iPod problem is George Bush's fault, personally.
From my experience, I wouldn't trust exposing bear screens to anything. No matter how tough they are they will always end up getting scratched, be this digital cameras, cell phones or whatever else is small enough for the pocket. The only real solution is get a skin, with screen protector or get one of the stick screen films designed for digital cameras.
I already got my self an iSkin for my iPod, just to prolong the life of the base product. And for the iPod nano there is already a good selection from Decal Girl and iSkin has one planned for the iPod nano. The skin and pouch market is huge, heck even Guchi is in on it, so you're bound to find one for your taste.
Keep in mind Apple themselves admitted this is built with the finest tolerances of any device they've ever made. The problem with fine tolerances is they take a lot of money to manufacture to and if you're rushing a product out the door you are prone to getting it wrong early.
The mini also showed issues around the screen and headphone port early in its life but they were resolved as the process matured. LCDs are certainly the most susceptible items to pressure.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kolchak
That said, Apple really should add a hardcoat to the Nano face. It wouldn't add much production cost, perhaps 25¢ to 75¢ per unit. Silica-filled polysiloxane would be a good choice.
Not really because adding that coating adds at least 2 stages to the manufacturing process and most likely a few additional support stages to go with it. All of that adds cost and time and when you're dealing with high volume manufacture the time can really be a killer as it limits your rate of manufacture.
Furthermore polysiloxane is great if you're worried about your pipes corroding. It is not so useful when you're talking about exposing it to an abrasive environment.
As it happens Apple has applied a coating it just appears too soft, although it certainly doesn't scratch that much more than previous iPods. Any number of potential reasons it may be a fraction different though.
Quote:
Originally posted by Ocriss33324
blah blah blah
Take your rant and intersperse iPod with digital camera, discman, walkman or any other CE term of your choosing. The same is true for virtually all of them. Everything has structurally weak points. If you want to protect it buy one of those giant blocks of cases because that's what you're talking about adding to protect it. Freak accidents happen but clearly from random punishment as is typified in the Ars Technica article the Nano holds up pretty well but it is still fragile and I expect many issues relate to consumers forgetting that.
Comments
Originally posted by nagromme
No company would ever promise "survives your pocket no matter what happens to it there." And no consumer should ever think that.
Steve putting it in the coin pocket was a clever unveiling, that's all. It's not part of the overall marketing of the product. Most buyers aren't aware of WHAT Steve did, much less emulating him.
Now, re scratching easily: of COURSE plastic scratches, and of course glossy plastic shows it more--especially in black. BUT...if the plastic is truly a DIFFERENT, cheaper material than the other iPods use (I'm not convinced yet), and is even easier to scratch than they are, than I'd wish Apple had charged a higher price and used the same plastic as my full-size iPod. If nothing else, now that the issue has come up, I'd expect them to make that improvement when component prices come down to compensate for more costly plastic.
Two points I'd like to make. First about Steve....
The CEO of Apple at a public media event pointed to his coin pocket and said "Did you ever wonder what this pocket is for?" and then proceded to pull out the new Nano. Now what are we supposed to make of that? Well, my guess would be that it's okay to carry a nano in your pocket.. Furthermore, the marketing slogan for the Nano is "1000 songs in your pocket." If Apple had not intended for people to be pocketing their Nano's then they are truly sending the wrong message.
Secondly, the scratches.
Yes, all plastic will scratch. it's a given. However there are different levels of durablility for plastics and the Nano IS NOT, and I repeat, NOT even remotely as durable when it comes to scratch resistance as previous iPods. Steve Jobs said himself in Time Magazine that everything on the Nano is a new ground up design with none of the materials carried over from previous iPods.
These scratch complaints are legitimate. The Nano surface is so delicate that a fricking Kleenex will scratch the surface, putting the Nano in a cotton shirt pocket will leave scratches. It does not take negligence to make this thing look terrible. Yes, they are hairline scratches, but after very little time the scratches begin to make the display unreadable. Almost as if sandpaper has been rubbed against the surface.
This is unacceptable for a consumer electronic device. A proper case will surely protect from these scratches, but Apple released the Nano more than a month before any cases are even available. And if a case is required to keep the display on a nano readable (which it is) then it should not be an optional accessory, it should be included in the box.
Apple's got some splain'n to do.
I've seen the iPods at Apple stores and they do have scratches (thousands of people playing with them, putting them through their paces, and dropping them back unto hard wooden surfaces). I've never thought to use an iPod without the backlight on, so I'm assuming this has nothing to do with the problem, but as soon as you press the nano clickwheel the backlight comes on and everything, in my experience, is clearly visible.
M
Originally posted by audiopollution
Could someone please explain why my nano is covered with scratches, after 3 days, when it:
1) has never been in a pocket with anything else, and
2) has never been in contact with any rings (as I don't wear one)
Apparently denim and cotton pockets are enough to mar it.
<edit> On second thought, it was in the same pocket as my paycheque ... perhaps it's covered in paper cuts.
That's funny. But deleting "complaints" from Apple forums seems a bit extreme. Especially with the price of replacement screens, etc. If the Nano is just a pricey Christmas gift, then rich kids can buy another (newer) model when anything goes wrong. But when you're spending a paycheck on a music player, you don't really expect to pay half the price again to fix a scratched screen.
Also I agree with the poster who said they bought their Nano in part because of Jobs's "demo" on the 7th of this month... that's great promotion. The product had better live up to the promotion!
-------------
the old-skool iPod Mini. impossibly durable.
Originally posted by fng
For those that don't understand there are two issue going on.
The main issue is with #1. Look at this site to see the cracked and broken LCDs.
From that page:
" Attached is a picture of my broken nano.
It was kept in my jeans pocket, and I was sitting and standing with it."
I sat on my iPod and it broke, and it's Apple's fault? Why would you pay $250.00 for something, then sit on it?
Are you f*cking kidding me? I DO NOT believe that packing the nano in its box inside a carry-on bag would damage the nano. What are these people doing?
in 1993-94 my sharp digital organiser-thingy survived a one story drop. screen was okay as well.
oh then in 1996 i accidentally stepped on my pc 486dx laptop and that was the end of that screen...
Originally posted by chris v
From that page:
" Attached is a picture of my broken nano.
It was kept in my jeans pocket, and I was sitting and standing with it."
I sat on my iPod and it broke, and it's Apple's fault? Why would you pay $250.00 for something, then sit on it?
~~~~
Also on your fascinating page, an email from someone who said Steve Jobs did NOT take the Nano out of his pocket, that he (the sender) was "there" in Paris on September 7th.
Does this mean that the Quicktime presentation of the Nano was "edited" to make it appear that it didn't scratch or malfunction so easily??? I saw Jobs make a joke about the "other" pocket in his five-pocket jeans. I thought I saw him pull the Next Big Thing out of his own pocket.
Now I am really not sure. Sort of reminds me of "Who are you gonna believe -- me? Or your lying eyes?"
Originally posted by Placebo
So it's a piece of crap, and Apple is making a hundred-dollar margin on it? Un freaking believable.
THEY'RE NOT MAKING A 100 DOLLAR MARGIN!
Forr goodness sake! Pay attention!
However, it may be a peice of crap.
They have to factor in design, product testing, moulding, prototypes (very expensive), shipping, packaging, marketing and a host of other things that I foget but need to be done that aren't included in production costs. Also Jonathan Ive's wage is probably pretty hefty.
Originally posted by Placebo
They are making a $100 margin. It doesn't matter how that $100 is used internally; it's the fact that it's about two times what many comparable devices net.
$100 margin then.
I give in.
If they've managed to produce something that gives twice the margin than other people make, so what?
Actual profit is different.
Lets not get them confused.
Originally posted by Ocriss33324
The fourth generation iPod has the SAME issue.
Take one apart. It looks like they put very little
thought into the design.
Apple put plenty of thought into the design, as they do ALL of their products. That's why people love them so much.
Originally posted by Ocriss33324
I haven't taken apart a Nano, but if you look at a
4th Generation iPod the LCD is supported by the frame
of the iPod. If you torque, twist, or put force on the
frame most of it will ripple through the screen. They
put no protection in front or back of the screen.
Also, placing the audio jack behind the screen was a
very dumb move. Can you say 'stress point?'
I'm sorry, I have a 4G, I tried twisting and putting force on the frame, it didn't budge. Nothing whatsoever happened to the screen. The frame is VERY solid. And is apple supposed to move the audio jack to a less convenient location so that the .01 percent of users won't have to worry about dropping it on the headphone jack?
Originally posted by Ocriss33324
Even the standard headphone and remote jacks do not
have proper strain relief. Give one to your wife or
kid and let them wrap it around the iPod a few times.
See how long it is before they notice clicking or
static. Then wiggle the wire right near the jack.
Notice the static...
The iPod earphones are the most durable I've ever owned. I take mine, and wrap it around my fingers into a loop, and then wrap the cord around the loop several times and basically tie it up with the cord. I've never had any problems with the earphones. They've lasted far longer than other headphones, and I've owned quite a few.
Originally posted by Ocriss33324
As far as the battery goes...
Apple is getting worse, not better.
How do you seriously sell a product like this to
consumers where the battery is soldered to the board
inside? Talk about a pain in the you know what to replace.
Oh, that's right...
Just buy a new one.
They have an iPod battery replacement program, as do a few other 3rd parties. Also, having no way to open it up and change batteries contributes to its sleek, cool look, which has made it popular.
Originally posted by Ocriss33324
However, my feeling on this one...
Is not that it is a mistake, but a lack of concern for their customer. Their products get praised by everyone regardless, and Apple seems to know it. Hence, it is more profitable for them to be lax about these things.
Their products get praised for good reason, they're well made, innovative, and of the highest quality. If you don't like it by a RIO!!!!
Originally posted by g3pro
The apple apologists are simply hilarious in this thread, automatically saying apple good, customer bad.
Most customers are stupid. Especcially americans (I'm an american BTW), they refuse to take responsibility for anything. They always have to blame somebody other than themselves.
I think the whole iPod problem is George Bush's fault, personally.
[i]
I think the whole iPod problem is George Bush's fault, personally. [/B]
Interested! Please explain!
I already got my self an iSkin for my iPod, just to prolong the life of the base product. And for the iPod nano there is already a good selection from Decal Girl and iSkin has one planned for the iPod nano. The skin and pouch market is huge, heck even Guchi is in on it, so you're bound to find one for your taste.
The mini also showed issues around the screen and headphone port early in its life but they were resolved as the process matured. LCDs are certainly the most susceptible items to pressure.
Originally posted by Kolchak
That said, Apple really should add a hardcoat to the Nano face. It wouldn't add much production cost, perhaps 25¢ to 75¢ per unit. Silica-filled polysiloxane would be a good choice.
Not really because adding that coating adds at least 2 stages to the manufacturing process and most likely a few additional support stages to go with it. All of that adds cost and time and when you're dealing with high volume manufacture the time can really be a killer as it limits your rate of manufacture.
Furthermore polysiloxane is great if you're worried about your pipes corroding. It is not so useful when you're talking about exposing it to an abrasive environment.
As it happens Apple has applied a coating it just appears too soft, although it certainly doesn't scratch that much more than previous iPods. Any number of potential reasons it may be a fraction different though.
Originally posted by Ocriss33324
blah blah blah
Take your rant and intersperse iPod with digital camera, discman, walkman or any other CE term of your choosing. The same is true for virtually all of them. Everything has structurally weak points. If you want to protect it buy one of those giant blocks of cases because that's what you're talking about adding to protect it. Freak accidents happen but clearly from random punishment as is typified in the Ars Technica article the Nano holds up pretty well but it is still fragile and I expect many issues relate to consumers forgetting that.