I think by "PCI-X" you mean PCI-Express. ... And either PCI-X or AGP would be an inferior interface to the PCI-Express currently available on the "consumer" iMac.
PCI-X / PCIe is rediculously commonly confused, in my opinion, PCIe should never have had the PCI letters for this reason, at least a lot of PCI-X and PCI devices and slots can be interchanged without changing hardware, that can't be said of PCIe.
I too doubt the new systems would have PCI-X, that would be stupid as no video card that I am aware of uses it and would be fiscally stupid if you want to use affordable video cards.
i mainly work in final cut and everything runs speedy.
i'm really hesitant to buy another G5 (although a dual core tower would rip some ass), but not sure if i should just stick it out for intel. thoughts?
If everything runs speedy... it doesn't seem like you have much reason to upgrade. Nobody knows exactly when the pmacs will transition but speculation says they'll be among the last.
ok.. so.. the question for me: WHEN WILL WE SEE INTEL IN POWERMACS?
i'm thinking about upgrading, but not sure if i should stick it out for the intel macs. i currently run a dual 2gig G5 rev A. i mainly work in final cut and everything runs speedy.
i'm really hesitant to buy another G5 (although a dual core tower would rip some ass), but not sure if i should just stick it out for intel. thoughts?
I think it'll be a year before you see Intel PMacs, personally. I think dual-dual G5 + PCIe will be smokin' Intel for a little while yet.
The PBs and iMacs will go Intel first. The dual G5 will keep the PM relevant, and besides, with Adobe dragging their ass, Intel PMacs pretty much have to wait. Actually, Apple would be smart to sell both PPC and Intel PMacs for a little while.
Finally, the iBooks and mini will go over. This way, performance stays in check with price and needs.
I think it'll be a year before you see Intel PMacs, personally. I think dual-dual G5 + PCIe will be smokin' Intel for a little while yet.
In terms of the workstation performance roost, I think products such as HP's xw9300 workstation is the thing to beat right now. SLI capable, purchasable with just one CPU (with an extra empty socket), upgradeable to dual CPU and even dual-dual core without replacing the computer and it officially accepts up to 16GB of RAM with four memory channels. It's anything but an affordable machine when decked out, but the scalability is there in many ways.
This may seem a little off topic....but.....is there room for an app. such as FrontRow in any other updates to other macs? Or is this something that is an iMac only kind of thing. I'd love to see it in all new macs but am curious how it would work inside a non-all-in-one design. I'd really like to have the capabilities of such a program but feel I need more power than a single chip iMac can offer.\
I'm interested in purchasing the new 20in iMac and maxing its options out as well as to seeing if the Dual-Core PowerMac arrives.
The PowerBook bores the hell out of me. I've got an iBook for portability issues. When I want to sit down and crunch numbers I'll look to the other two system scenarios I just mentioned.
Probably the latter, since Apple is rumored to be pushing hard to get the Intel switch done quickly.
I still think that we're going to end up with some unhappy creative professionals if Photoshop et al isn't running on Intel by the time the Powermacs come out.
Adobe have said that they're aiming for Intel versions out by the end of next year; all things be equal, they'll probably start pushing Intel based PowerMacs first to developers, hence the big push will be probably laptops, mini-Macs.
Then AGAIN, they did say "announcement at the next developer conference" - the key point is announcement NOT shipment - like how Solaris was ANNOUNCED in November, but wasn't shipped until the beginning of this year.
It will be the same situation; the last thing they want is a situation where by their products are shipping but there isn't a substantial number of third party vendors producing software for the public to purchase.
PCI-X / PCIe is rediculously commonly confused, in my opinion, PCIe should never have had the PCI letters for this reason, at least a lot of PCI-X and PCI devices and slots can be interchanged without changing hardware, that can't be said of PCIe.
I too doubt the new systems would have PCI-X, that would be stupid as no video card that I am aware of uses it and would be fiscally stupid if you want to use affordable video cards.
Oh, come on, its pretty dam basic; at the *LEAST* the assumption should be that PCI-X equates to PCI eXtended vs PCIe which is PCI express. Hardly rocket science material IMHO.
Regarding the PCIe; they've almost finished work on PCIe version 2, which have even MORE bandwidth - maybe we'll start seeing Intel PowerMacs with PCIe version 2.0 by the time they're released next year - I wouldn't be surprised.
I doubt that we'll see any Intel machine before the beginning second quarter, earliest. This rumor about Apple pushing for early is just that a rumor.
The article didn't say anything about PCI X. Did someone post that and then change it? PCI Express is usually referred to as either the Express Bus, or just Express. Rarely does anyone say PCI Express. While X is an extension to PCI, Express is totally different. It's a serial bus, not PCI at all. Everything seems to be moving to serial. First Firewire, then Express, then SATA. Even SCSI has a serial counterpart coming up.
Apple and other manufacturers have stated that 300 dpi monitors will never become a mainstream product. There is no need for such a thing. We might see 150.
We also won't see a Power 5 chipset in a Mac. The chip set costs about $3,000 for the dual cpu version, and uses over 225 watts. Cooling that in a standard tower like Apple uses would be very difficult. It's easier when spread between two chips.
Freescales 600 series chips has been discussed for some time now. We don't know when those will be available. Look at the 7448.
Also the chips use a different memory bus than do the 74xx series. They also consume even more power. More heat, less battery life.
The slot loading Blu-Ray drives aren't supposed to be ready until March. On the other hand, if, somehow, enough were made to get to Apple in the top line PB and PM, we would see content for christmas. The manufacturers and studios backing BR would just love to get titles out to show HD DVD backers and MS that not only are they not "years away", but first.
But I doubt it.
They've been working on Intrepid 2 for quite some time. Apple as we all know, takes their sweet time to transition to new boards and chips.
It's much cheaper to do a dual core rather than two single cores. The cost of the cooling unit itself is very high, and the power drain from the pump etc. is something that Apple would like to do away with. But it might be cheaper to just carry on with the old board for the low price model. It's a tough one. Depends on their pricing model. Remember the G5's have had the lowest model on the older PCI bus.
I'm curious as to what video cards will be standard in an Express machine, if indeed this will be one. I also wonder if they will be offering an ATI 1800 series or an Nvidia 7800, and if so, which ones.
The only thing that Apple would need to do to make FrontRow work is an IR receiver in or attached to the machine, like the one by the iMac camera, or the new iPod dock.
It would also be a hoot to get an Express PB, but with the same old chip!
This info seems to be corroborated by the UK store, which shows PowerMac shipping times as having jumped up to 5 days, and the 15 and 17in PowerBooks at 5 or 6-8 days. The 12in STILL remains unchanged. Could be interesting.
X1300Pro in the highest model. X1300 in the others. Both speed crippled.
Hey it's Apple we're talking about.
nah im thinking Apple will fire up the extremely solid and time tested Rage 128's.
probably pack'em with very beefy 16MB (!) of Vram.
So watch out gamers... according to an internal memo written by none other than Steve Jobs himself... its definitely going to be "No-Holds-Barred" in Cupertino from here on out.
Comments
Originally posted by bigmig
I think by "PCI-X" you mean PCI-Express. ... And either PCI-X or AGP would be an inferior interface to the PCI-Express currently available on the "consumer" iMac.
PCI-X / PCIe is rediculously commonly confused, in my opinion, PCIe should never have had the PCI letters for this reason, at least a lot of PCI-X and PCI devices and slots can be interchanged without changing hardware, that can't be said of PCIe.
I too doubt the new systems would have PCI-X, that would be stupid as no video card that I am aware of uses it and would be fiscally stupid if you want to use affordable video cards.
Originally posted by sandboxface
i mainly work in final cut and everything runs speedy.
i'm really hesitant to buy another G5 (although a dual core tower would rip some ass), but not sure if i should just stick it out for intel. thoughts?
If everything runs speedy... it doesn't seem like you have much reason to upgrade. Nobody knows exactly when the pmacs will transition but speculation says they'll be among the last.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
So what are they using in the new iMac to get DDR2 and PCI-E ? That's new too and probably of not much longer lifespan.
What comes after U3? The PowerPC Power Mac is expected to live for another year or more.
Originally posted by sandboxface
ok.. so.. the question for me: WHEN WILL WE SEE INTEL IN POWERMACS?
i'm thinking about upgrading, but not sure if i should stick it out for the intel macs. i currently run a dual 2gig G5 rev A. i mainly work in final cut and everything runs speedy.
i'm really hesitant to buy another G5 (although a dual core tower would rip some ass), but not sure if i should just stick it out for intel. thoughts?
I think it'll be a year before you see Intel PMacs, personally. I think dual-dual G5 + PCIe will be smokin' Intel for a little while yet.
The PBs and iMacs will go Intel first. The dual G5 will keep the PM relevant, and besides, with Adobe dragging their ass, Intel PMacs pretty much have to wait. Actually, Apple would be smart to sell both PPC and Intel PMacs for a little while.
Finally, the iBooks and mini will go over. This way, performance stays in check with price and needs.
Originally posted by johnsonwax
I think it'll be a year before you see Intel PMacs, personally. I think dual-dual G5 + PCIe will be smokin' Intel for a little while yet.
In terms of the workstation performance roost, I think products such as HP's xw9300 workstation is the thing to beat right now. SLI capable, purchasable with just one CPU (with an extra empty socket), upgradeable to dual CPU and even dual-dual core without replacing the computer and it officially accepts up to 16GB of RAM with four memory channels. It's anything but an affordable machine when decked out, but the scalability is there in many ways.
Originally posted by wmf
Intrepid 2 doesn't make sense. Why develop a new chipset that will only be used for 6 months?
Low-end Power Macs may use two 970FX chips instead of one 970MP for cost reasons.
Do two 970FX's have less areal density than one 970MP?
Do two 970FX'x have less pinouts than one 970MP?
Do two 970FX's consume less power than one 970MP?
Are two 970FX's on a MB less complicated than two 970MP's on a MB?
I think the answers to these questions are a 4-way (pun intended) NO!
No, I think AI has it right, one MB with 970MP dualies across the line!
simple + cheap + efficient = higher margins (the bottom line)
YeeeHaaah, sign me up, I'm gettin' one, and I'm callin' it Rascal!
The PowerBook bores the hell out of me. I've got an iBook for portability issues. When I want to sit down and crunch numbers I'll look to the other two system scenarios I just mentioned.
Originally posted by Placebo
Probably the latter, since Apple is rumored to be pushing hard to get the Intel switch done quickly.
I still think that we're going to end up with some unhappy creative professionals if Photoshop et al isn't running on Intel by the time the Powermacs come out.
Adobe have said that they're aiming for Intel versions out by the end of next year; all things be equal, they'll probably start pushing Intel based PowerMacs first to developers, hence the big push will be probably laptops, mini-Macs.
Then AGAIN, they did say "announcement at the next developer conference" - the key point is announcement NOT shipment - like how Solaris was ANNOUNCED in November, but wasn't shipped until the beginning of this year.
It will be the same situation; the last thing they want is a situation where by their products are shipping but there isn't a substantial number of third party vendors producing software for the public to purchase.
Originally posted by JeffDM
PCI-X / PCIe is rediculously commonly confused, in my opinion, PCIe should never have had the PCI letters for this reason, at least a lot of PCI-X and PCI devices and slots can be interchanged without changing hardware, that can't be said of PCIe.
I too doubt the new systems would have PCI-X, that would be stupid as no video card that I am aware of uses it and would be fiscally stupid if you want to use affordable video cards.
Oh, come on, its pretty dam basic; at the *LEAST* the assumption should be that PCI-X equates to PCI eXtended vs PCIe which is PCI express. Hardly rocket science material IMHO.
Regarding the PCIe; they've almost finished work on PCIe version 2, which have even MORE bandwidth - maybe we'll start seeing Intel PowerMacs with PCIe version 2.0 by the time they're released next year - I wouldn't be surprised.
With the substantial need for the apps to be properly readied there will need to be a significant public lead time so the devs get it in gear.
Expect announcements like the first iMac, months out. Say, MWSF for April kinda thing.
Devs need the window to package and prep downloads, etc as needed.
"Available Today" will not be part of the scenario.
Z
Originally posted by zaz
I don't think Apple will be able to whiz-bang surprise announce its intel based machines like other models in the past.
With the substantial need for the apps to be properly readied there will need to be a significant public lead time so the devs get it in gear.
Expect announcements like the first iMac, months out. Say, MWSF for April kinda thing.
Devs need the window to package and prep downloads, etc as needed.
"Available Today" will not be part of the scenario.
Z
Yup, agree 100% on that one.
Too many cooks in the kitchen to keep a lid on the MacTels.
Woo Hoo, on those expected PB sidegrades!
Boo Hoo, to those 1.67GHz G4's.
The PB now most definitely enters the catagory of SB status!
The S stands for Slowest!
I'm pullin' the plug on this one, I'm pullin' a Rip van Winkle, someone here on AI please wake me up when the MacTel PB's (64-bit dualies) arrive.
Originally posted by franksargent
Woo Hoo, on those expected PB sidegrades!
Boo Hoo, to those 1.67GHz G4's.
The PB now most definitely enters the catagory of SB status!
The S stands for Slowest!
I'm pullin' the plug on this one, I'm pullin' a Rip van Winkle, someone here on AI please wake me up when the MacTel PB's (64-bit dualies) arrive.
=(
i need a laptop damnit.
A lot of things going on here.
I doubt that we'll see any Intel machine before the beginning second quarter, earliest. This rumor about Apple pushing for early is just that a rumor.
The article didn't say anything about PCI X. Did someone post that and then change it? PCI Express is usually referred to as either the Express Bus, or just Express. Rarely does anyone say PCI Express. While X is an extension to PCI, Express is totally different. It's a serial bus, not PCI at all. Everything seems to be moving to serial. First Firewire, then Express, then SATA. Even SCSI has a serial counterpart coming up.
Apple and other manufacturers have stated that 300 dpi monitors will never become a mainstream product. There is no need for such a thing. We might see 150.
We also won't see a Power 5 chipset in a Mac. The chip set costs about $3,000 for the dual cpu version, and uses over 225 watts. Cooling that in a standard tower like Apple uses would be very difficult. It's easier when spread between two chips.
Freescales 600 series chips has been discussed for some time now. We don't know when those will be available. Look at the 7448.
Also the chips use a different memory bus than do the 74xx series. They also consume even more power. More heat, less battery life.
The slot loading Blu-Ray drives aren't supposed to be ready until March. On the other hand, if, somehow, enough were made to get to Apple in the top line PB and PM, we would see content for christmas. The manufacturers and studios backing BR would just love to get titles out to show HD DVD backers and MS that not only are they not "years away", but first.
But I doubt it.
They've been working on Intrepid 2 for quite some time. Apple as we all know, takes their sweet time to transition to new boards and chips.
It's much cheaper to do a dual core rather than two single cores. The cost of the cooling unit itself is very high, and the power drain from the pump etc. is something that Apple would like to do away with. But it might be cheaper to just carry on with the old board for the low price model. It's a tough one. Depends on their pricing model. Remember the G5's have had the lowest model on the older PCI bus.
I'm curious as to what video cards will be standard in an Express machine, if indeed this will be one. I also wonder if they will be offering an ATI 1800 series or an Nvidia 7800, and if so, which ones.
The only thing that Apple would need to do to make FrontRow work is an IR receiver in or attached to the machine, like the one by the iMac camera, or the new iPod dock.
It would also be a hoot to get an Express PB, but with the same old chip!
Originally posted by melgross
I'm curious as to what video cards will be standard in an Express machine, if indeed this will be one.
X1300Pro in the highest model. X1300 in the others. Both speed crippled.
Hey it's Apple we're talking about.
Originally posted by smalM
X1300Pro in the highest model. X1300 in the others. Both speed crippled.
Hey it's Apple we're talking about.
nah im thinking Apple will fire up the extremely solid and time tested Rage 128's.
probably pack'em with very beefy 16MB (!) of Vram.
So watch out gamers... according to an internal memo written by none other than Steve Jobs himself... its definitely going to be "No-Holds-Barred" in Cupertino from here on out.
Nah, there's a new GPU maker in da house!
Check out http://www.etch-a-sketch.com/
And at a price point of $999.95 this IS a bargain!
Somehow a certain Cars tune comes to mind?
Originally posted by smalM
X1300Pro in the highest model. X1300 in the others. Both speed crippled.
Hey it's Apple we're talking about.
What are you talking about?