So my question- I do photoshop 90% of the time, I don't really play games and I only watch video. So, I know the 7800 kills the 6600, but would I see any or enough of the benefit that warrant the wait and $400?
The 7800 is for 3D gaming and 3D apps like Cinema 4D or Maya. For 2D work like photoshop and video work you won't notice much of a difference. Most of the performance increase in graphics cards nowadays is in the 3D area. 2D more or less reached it's max a few card generations ago.
heh. in this case the $400 and two months wait is definitely not worth it \
Well, it could be two months it could be two weeks. I would assume if it was a matter of days, the supervisor would be privy to that info. Because he's in the dark, that tells me it may be weeks off at least. So I'd have to cancel my order and wait and then re-order and then spend $400 or so more and I probably would if I did video or was a gamer. But I'm not, so does that mean I'm good to go with the 6600?
Hell, right now I'm on a dual gig with the geforce4 MX
The 7800 is for 3D gaming and 3D apps like Cinema 4D or Maya. For 2D work like photoshop and video work you won't notice much of a difference. Most of the performance increase in graphics cards nowadays is in the 3D area. 2D more or less reached it's max a few card generations ago.
Awesome man, thanks. I can breathe a sigh of relief now and go ahead with my order. Thanks again
no worries kidred, you'll enjoy your setup. i was just really excited for you that if you could afford the 7800 gt you'd have some max power happening. but certainly given what you have said, it would be way overkill and make your machine noisier anyway. the 6600 plus liquid-cooled (if i am not wrong) dualcore g5 will be sweet and silent for max "in the zone" photoshopping.
How well does everyone think the 6600 will handle X-Plane 8 and Halo at 1650x1050. I'm currently on the 5200 in my PBook and I can get most things up to medium in Halo @ 1024x768 and I would really like to see everything on high. After that most of my work is limited to software development and video which I can get by on with my 5200 with out any problem.
eh? PB no disrespect, but i am confused about what you are talking about? the original powermac g5 case was always designed to take into consideration two g5 cpus, naturally evolving from the two g4 powermacs.
Well, you talk about two G5s, I talk about four G5s. Mind you, the dual core chip is much larger than a single core one. So, if the Power Mac case was spacious to host two single core G5s, it seems about right for two dual core G5s. It looks like Apple had this situation in mind when designed this case. Of course with a single core G5 inside (old mono-processor models), it looked like an empty can .
Well, you talk about two G5s, I talk about four G5s. Mind you, the dual core chip is much larger than a single core one. So, if the Power Mac case was spacious to host two single core G5s, it seems about right for two dual core G5s. It looks like Apple had this situation in mind when designed this case. Of course with a single core G5 inside (old mono-processor models), it looked like an empty can .
I can imagine that the designers (J. Ives, et. al.) had kept a good amount of headroom to expand if necessary, which was good for them because the liquid cooling system for the 2.5 and 2.7 dual processor systems were monstrous. They probably knew a dual core option was going to be made when designing the enclosure.
My only complaint of the system is that the inlet fans had an annoying whine when the chips and ambient air are abover a given temperature. At idle, Macs are very quiet, but when their fans need to move air, they make excessive high pitch noise, IMO.
Well, you talk about two G5s, I talk about four G5s. Mind you, the dual core chip is much larger than a single core one. So, if the Power Mac case was spacious to host two single core G5s, it seems about right for two dual core G5s. It looks like Apple had this situation in mind when designed this case. Of course with a single core G5 inside (old mono-processor models), it looked like an empty can .
heh. i get ya now i had a powermac g5 1.6ghz single for a few months. that was one heavy beast. i would not look forward to lugging around a Quad... yeah i think its possible apple factored all this in. but at the end of the day they're not happy with having to deal with this hot, expensive, and impossible-to-squeeze-into-a-laptop chip also known as the powerpc g5 \
still this is a great upgrade and if i had more time/money/etc i would have hung on to my powermac g5, i was creating some mad stuff in reason2.5/abletonlive3 software synth trance musicy stuff... the sata drive was hella noisy on that though, it has improved in the past 1+ year. *sigh* technology and how it evolves. a reason for waking up each day huh? just to see wtf is going on
My old Ati 8500 handles graphic acceleration in Max or Lightwave quite well on the PC. And this card must be about 3-4 years old?
I'm sure the 7800GT will be more than adequate for Open GL performance in Lightwave...or Max. For general to detailed models.
For ultra-detailed CAD 3D work then maybe the Quadro is more appropriate.
To saay the 7800GT is only a gaming card would be inaccurate. 'Gaming' cards have come a long way and can pull the fringe out of alot of 'Workstation' cards in many respects.
Gaming cards do push polygons/trianges about. Look at Quake 4 for example.
I couldn't say any of the work I would do it going to get much better than that yet the Nvidia 7800GT looks like it's going to throw it around.
Gaming cards have come along way in their support of Open GL. In games. And in 3D apps.
I'd be very interested in seeing a 7800GT vs a Quadro myself in LW or Max. To see the difference myself...
I'm guessing you're only going to tell the difference because of the extra 256 megs of ram and driver 'edge' on really detailed 3D models.
Benches. Links. etc. If you care to educate me differently. Pictures of a 3d model through put comparison as well....
wait a bit, i'm sure apple will have the 7800gt available soonish
I sent email on the Apple feedback page this morning, since the 7800 GT is mentioned in the www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html page as a build to order option, and is still not on the Apple Store anywhere.
Hopefully they'll get that fixed soon, but I'm not buying until there are some independent tests anyway. But then - yeah.
As to memory ... yep, bet some people just buy, though that seems *least* likely on the high end. $10k for memory? (granted, a lot of memory)
I thought many PC SLI boards used 8x in the second SLI slot.
I already corrected my self on this, but I'll say it more clearly. It's not that they are using 8x in the second slot, they have 8x in both slots because the SLI bridge will match the input speed of the matching cards so SLI will function properly. It's a bottleneck.
I would much rather just have one 16x ( 1- 16X vs. 2- 8x) slot, instead of the minor improvment of 2 matching cards running at 8x, and save the cash until Apple releases one later with 2x full speed 16x slots.
I wouldn't mind seeing what matching two 6600's using an SLI bridge perform like compared to the single one in the 16X slot for comparason, or 2 7800GTX's for that matter. I'd bet that someone like bear feats, or toms hardware will try it out for us sooner or later. Hopefully sooner.
Only AMD processor driven machines (and it's a select few motherboards that have it) have dual FULL speed 16X PCI-E expressways, and that is how it should have been from the beginning, but nobody could get it working.
But on a side note. I do think yesterday answered the question that I will finally be able to use a Quadro in a PowerMac at the very beginning of next year though. (if not sooner, because I'm totally excited about this) And that Apple does intend on keeping the Pro line. Unlike those idiots that kept saying Apple will drop the PowerMac. F*ck! those @ss holes had me scared for a little while.
Vertices and triangles are very different beasts. A vertice is a much more easily calculated element. A triangle which a pro graphics cards are rated on take much more computing power.
Also game cards such as the 7800 don't do well at all in a pro app. A $600 game card will always lose to a $600 pro card in a pro 3D app.
My old Ati 8500 can handle a model with 100,000 polygons. 'Square' polygons in Lightwave. Before it slows down. And. Begins. Slide-show....up-date.
I'm guessing the 7800 could easily handle, what? 1/2 a million? More? A million?
I can't think of anything non-CAD related that would make me pick a Quadro over a barn-storming 7800GT. For Lightwave and Max modeling? I'm sure the 7800GT would more than amble along in relatively complex scenes.
Daz 3D models of 30-60,000 polygons handle fairly well on my Ati 8500. I should imagine a 7800GT would cruise it.
The Quadro will probably cost about 3-4 times as much. For what I'd want to do...I can't see the Quadro topping it. For bang for buck. It's the 7800GT.
I sent email on the Apple feedback page this morning, since the 7800 GT is mentioned in the www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html page as a build to order option, and is still not on the Apple Store anywhere.
Hopefully they'll get that fixed soon, but I'm not buying until there are some independent tests anyway. But then - yeah.
As to memory ... yep, bet some people just buy, though that seems *least* likely on the high end. $10k for memory? (granted, a lot of memory)
The guy at phone from the french Apple store, told me that they had an new info (6 hours ago) : there will not be any 7800 video card option and they are going to edit the web pages speaking of this video card.
I don't know if this info is true, but I can swear that what I related is true. He seems to be embarassed, and asked me several times, why I wanted a faster video card, and what I intended to do with it. I think that the guy recieved guidelines from his boss.
There had better be a 7800gt option. That can't be true....
lbb
An another guy report the same thing on Mac Bidouille. Any people ordering asking the question about the 7800 on the Apple french store recieved the same answer. The 7800 option is cancelled. No delay, just cancelled
I fear that it will be the same in every countries.
The good new, is that according to a first benchmarks the dual 2,3 ghz is faster than the old 2,5 dual with a 6800 pro video card.
For all those bitching about the RAM markup, check your info again...
Yeah, Apple charges a special Apple Tax for RAM & HDDs, but the expensive RAM in question is ECC RAM... But then, if it goes bad, you just contact Apple... And if you are spending the kind of money it takes to jack up a new PowerMac, then you should also be springing the extra US$270 for the 3-year warranty...
Anything else is foolish...
Look a little closer at that dropdown menu on the Apple Store folks, there are selections to be made... Don't just go to the last on the list...
The $9500 quote was for the non-ECC RAM. The ECC RAM is $11900!!!
What's really weird about ECC RAM is the price variations between different sizes. At 1GB the price difference is only $60, but at 2GB the price difference is $1000.
Comments
Originally posted by KidRed
So my question- I do photoshop 90% of the time, I don't really play games and I only watch video. So, I know the 7800 kills the 6600, but would I see any or enough of the benefit that warrant the wait and $400?
The 7800 is for 3D gaming and 3D apps like Cinema 4D or Maya. For 2D work like photoshop and video work you won't notice much of a difference. Most of the performance increase in graphics cards nowadays is in the 3D area. 2D more or less reached it's max a few card generations ago.
Originally posted by sunilraman
heh. in this case the $400 and two months wait is definitely not worth it
Well, it could be two months it could be two weeks. I would assume if it was a matter of days, the supervisor would be privy to that info. Because he's in the dark, that tells me it may be weeks off at least. So I'd have to cancel my order and wait and then re-order and then spend $400 or so more and I probably would if I did video or was a gamer. But I'm not, so does that mean I'm good to go with the 6600?
Hell, right now I'm on a dual gig with the geforce4 MX
Originally posted by Leonard
The 7800 is for 3D gaming and 3D apps like Cinema 4D or Maya. For 2D work like photoshop and video work you won't notice much of a difference. Most of the performance increase in graphics cards nowadays is in the 3D area. 2D more or less reached it's max a few card generations ago.
Awesome man, thanks. I can breathe a sigh of relief now and go ahead with my order. Thanks again
Originally posted by sunilraman
eh? PB no disrespect, but i am confused about what you are talking about? the original powermac g5 case was always designed to take into consideration two g5 cpus, naturally evolving from the two g4 powermacs.
Well, you talk about two G5s, I talk about four G5s. Mind you, the dual core chip is much larger than a single core one. So, if the Power Mac case was spacious to host two single core G5s, it seems about right for two dual core G5s. It looks like Apple had this situation in mind when designed this case. Of course with a single core G5 inside (old mono-processor models), it looked like an empty can
Originally posted by PB
Well, you talk about two G5s, I talk about four G5s. Mind you, the dual core chip is much larger than a single core one. So, if the Power Mac case was spacious to host two single core G5s, it seems about right for two dual core G5s. It looks like Apple had this situation in mind when designed this case. Of course with a single core G5 inside (old mono-processor models), it looked like an empty can
I can imagine that the designers (J. Ives, et. al.) had kept a good amount of headroom to expand if necessary, which was good for them because the liquid cooling system for the 2.5 and 2.7 dual processor systems were monstrous. They probably knew a dual core option was going to be made when designing the enclosure.
My only complaint of the system is that the inlet fans had an annoying whine when the chips and ambient air are abover a given temperature. At idle, Macs are very quiet, but when their fans need to move air, they make excessive high pitch noise, IMO.
Originally posted by PB
Well, you talk about two G5s, I talk about four G5s. Mind you, the dual core chip is much larger than a single core one. So, if the Power Mac case was spacious to host two single core G5s, it seems about right for two dual core G5s. It looks like Apple had this situation in mind when designed this case. Of course with a single core G5 inside (old mono-processor models), it looked like an empty can
heh. i get ya now
still this is a great upgrade and if i had more time/money/etc i would have hung on to my powermac g5, i was creating some mad stuff in reason2.5/abletonlive3 software synth trance musicy stuff... the sata drive was hella noisy on that though, it has improved in the past 1+ year. *sigh* technology and how it evolves. a reason for waking up each day huh? just to see wtf is going on
I'm sure the 7800GT will be more than adequate for Open GL performance in Lightwave...or Max. For general to detailed models.
For ultra-detailed CAD 3D work then maybe the Quadro is more appropriate.
To saay the 7800GT is only a gaming card would be inaccurate. 'Gaming' cards have come a long way and can pull the fringe out of alot of 'Workstation' cards in many respects.
Gaming cards do push polygons/trianges about. Look at Quake 4 for example.
I couldn't say any of the work I would do it going to get much better than that yet the Nvidia 7800GT looks like it's going to throw it around.
Gaming cards have come along way in their support of Open GL. In games. And in 3D apps.
I'd be very interested in seeing a 7800GT vs a Quadro myself in LW or Max. To see the difference myself...
I'm guessing you're only going to tell the difference because of the extra 256 megs of ram and driver 'edge' on really detailed 3D models.
Benches. Links. etc. If you care to educate me differently. Pictures of a 3d model through put comparison as well....
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by sunilraman
wait a bit, i'm sure apple will have the 7800gt available soonish
I sent email on the Apple feedback page this morning, since the 7800 GT is mentioned in the www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html page as a build to order option, and is still not on the Apple Store anywhere.
Hopefully they'll get that fixed soon, but I'm not buying until there are some independent tests anyway. But then - yeah.
As to memory ... yep, bet some people just buy, though that seems *least* likely on the high end. $10k for memory? (granted, a lot of memory)
Originally posted by JeffDM
I thought many PC SLI boards used 8x in the second SLI slot.
I already corrected my self on this, but I'll say it more clearly. It's not that they are using 8x in the second slot, they have 8x in both slots because the SLI bridge will match the input speed of the matching cards so SLI will function properly. It's a bottleneck.
I would much rather just have one 16x ( 1- 16X vs. 2- 8x) slot, instead of the minor improvment of 2 matching cards running at 8x, and save the cash until Apple releases one later with 2x full speed 16x slots.
I wouldn't mind seeing what matching two 6600's using an SLI bridge perform like compared to the single one in the 16X slot for comparason, or 2 7800GTX's for that matter. I'd bet that someone like bear feats, or toms hardware will try it out for us sooner or later. Hopefully sooner.
Only AMD processor driven machines (and it's a select few motherboards that have it) have dual FULL speed 16X PCI-E expressways, and that is how it should have been from the beginning, but nobody could get it working.
But on a side note. I do think yesterday answered the question that I will finally be able to use a Quadro in a PowerMac at the very beginning of next year though. (if not sooner, because I'm totally excited about this) And that Apple does intend on keeping the Pro line. Unlike those idiots that kept saying Apple will drop the PowerMac. F*ck! those @ss holes had me scared for a little while.
Vertices and triangles are very different beasts. A vertice is a much more easily calculated element. A triangle which a pro graphics cards are rated on take much more computing power.
Also game cards such as the 7800 don't do well at all in a pro app. A $600 game card will always lose to a $600 pro card in a pro 3D app.
My old Ati 8500 can handle a model with 100,000 polygons. 'Square' polygons in Lightwave. Before it slows down. And. Begins. Slide-show....up-date.
I'm guessing the 7800 could easily handle, what? 1/2 a million? More? A million?
I can't think of anything non-CAD related that would make me pick a Quadro over a barn-storming 7800GT. For Lightwave and Max modeling? I'm sure the 7800GT would more than amble along in relatively complex scenes.
Daz 3D models of 30-60,000 polygons handle fairly well on my Ati 8500. I should imagine a 7800GT would cruise it.
The Quadro will probably cost about 3-4 times as much. For what I'd want to do...I can't see the Quadro topping it. For bang for buck. It's the 7800GT.
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by bjewett
I sent email on the Apple feedback page this morning, since the 7800 GT is mentioned in the www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html page as a build to order option, and is still not on the Apple Store anywhere.
Hopefully they'll get that fixed soon, but I'm not buying until there are some independent tests anyway. But then - yeah.
As to memory ... yep, bet some people just buy, though that seems *least* likely on the high end. $10k for memory? (granted, a lot of memory)
The guy at phone from the french Apple store, told me that they had an new info (6 hours ago) : there will not be any 7800 video card option and they are going to edit the web pages speaking of this video card.
I don't know if this info is true, but I can swear that what I related is true. He seems to be embarassed, and asked me several times, why I wanted a faster video card, and what I intended to do with it. I think that the guy recieved guidelines from his boss.
lbb
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
There had better be a 7800gt option. That can't be true....
lbb
I bet in a few months if they update the other PowerMacs as quads as well, they will add it.
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
There had better be a 7800gt option. That can't be true....
lbb
An another guy report the same thing on Mac Bidouille. Any people ordering asking the question about the 7800 on the Apple french store recieved the same answer. The 7800 option is cancelled. No delay, just cancelled
I fear that it will be the same in every countries.
The good new, is that according to a first benchmarks the dual 2,3 ghz is faster than the old 2,5 dual with a 6800 pro video card.
Originally posted by KidRed
OK guys. I just got off the phone with Apple and they have NO IDEA when the 7800 will be available. No idea.
Grrrrr ... they want us to buy these things, right? And I want to, but ... argg.
Originally posted by MacRonin
For all those bitching about the RAM markup, check your info again...
Yeah, Apple charges a special Apple Tax for RAM & HDDs, but the expensive RAM in question is ECC RAM... But then, if it goes bad, you just contact Apple... And if you are spending the kind of money it takes to jack up a new PowerMac, then you should also be springing the extra US$270 for the 3-year warranty...
Anything else is foolish...
Look a little closer at that dropdown menu on the Apple Store folks, there are selections to be made... Don't just go to the last on the list...
The $9500 quote was for the non-ECC RAM. The ECC RAM is $11900!!!
What's really weird about ECC RAM is the price variations between different sizes. At 1GB the price difference is only $60, but at 2GB the price difference is $1000.
Originally posted by MacRonin
That's what I would do, if my new numbers hit the Lotto...
4 8 14 15 23 42
Yeah...
;^p
Those aren't even the right numbers. The correct numbers are:
4 8 15 16 23 42
Doesn't matter anyways, some lucky person in Oregon won it all. $340 million...damn.
Originally posted by Jeff Leigh
Those aren't even the right numbers. The correct numbers are:
4 8 15 16 23 42
Doesn't matter anyways, some lucky person in Oregon won it all. $340 million...damn.
Only 160 millions $ after taxes