Ok, here's what pisses me off with some of you (I'm not saying that you fall into this category, but I know some that are complaining do):
When Tiger was in its later dev stages, some people were so impatient and anxious to get their hands on Tiger that they were crying like little babies begging Apple to release it.
Apple released it. These same people that were shedding tears now realized that Tiger wasn't actually up to snuff and was causing problems on their machine.
Now, I'm not specifically targeting you, BWhaler...but those that did have that attitude should calm the f down.
I agree, and I was one of the old salty IT guys who said Apple should take their time given how critical an OS is and get it right. Sure, it's never going to be bug free, but at least high quality and thoughtful design.
The weird thing is why Apple released it when they did. At first, I wasn't too salty about it because I figured either Apple needed the revenue for the quarter or for some new product launch. But when neither proved true, I got pissed off since it was just sloppiness, and nothing more. Sure, the new pro apps needed Tiger, but they could of waited for a quality OS for a few months. And Apple crushed that quarter's numbers.
I guess we now know that the posts of a few of the beta testers back in March were true...when people were saying they couldn't believe the last build was going gold...
Oh well. I hope 10.4.3 is what Tiger should of been and Apple learned from this experience. Longhorn is shaping up very nicely--I know, I am as shocked as anyone else--and 10.5 has to be a quantum leap over 10.4 and Longhorn for the Mac business to keep growing. Windows 95 was MS "good enough" copy of OS9, and Longhorn is their "good enough, better in some ways" copy of OSX
Win 95 almost killed the Mac and Apple.
I just hope Apple is smart enough to not let history repeat itself and fool themselves into thinking the iPod success will be around forever. Even the venerable Walkman ran out of gas. It happens sooner or later to all consumer products.
Plus, now more than every, Microsoft is weakening, and Apple should not let them fortify a new OS position for the next 20 years.
Yes, the monopoly won't go away instantly, but Apple does have the opportunity to help chip away at it and build market share.
But 10.5 needs to demonstrate the innovation that Jobs likes to brag about.
I am far more concerned about the program behaving the way I want it to than I am over looks.
I would use Safari if it had any sort of open extensibility that I could use, there's no easy extensibility on the user side. Maybe there is, but I can use the same development efforts of Firefox Linux and FF Windows users, the same extensions generally work on the three computing platforms that I use.
I use Firefox to block web annoyances, FlashBlock, Adblock and the ability to turn off image animation, block certain web sites, certain images. There are a lot of other extensions that I use to make the web easier that have no adequate counterpart in Safari. To me, blocking excessive ads and stopping animation ads on sites with text and still-image content is more important than pretty buttons.
There's only PithHelmet and for me it thoughroughly misbehaves with gmail.
Hear, hear! Firefox extensions is what makes firefox different and better then the rest. I used Explorer at work a couple of times and couldn't believe the mess the web pages were. Hell, MacNN was driving me insane, and that was before I started reading the comments!
But the thing to remember here is that, IIRC, the thing that makes extensions work cross-platform is tied to the XUL they use for the interface. So tossing the XUL would cause the extensions to not work (and why, I think, they don't work in Camino, which is good enough reasons NOT to use that browser).
Pithhelmet is OK, but not as easy to use or setup as Adblock to block crap. Its got a lot of defaults which are set up to block on size, which is great except it seems to filter out valid content as well (I was on paypal yesterday reporting a spoof email, and noticed that pithhelmet was blocking all image content from that site, not sure why). It also is harder to set up to allow certain ads but not others (not everyone believes all ads should be blocked, just the annoying ones, which, well, does make up most of the ads).
I agree, and I was one of the old salty IT guys who said Apple should take their time given how critical an OS is and get it right. Sure, it's never going to be bug free, but at least high quality and thoughtful design.
...
I just hope Apple is smart enough to not let history repeat itself and fool themselves into thinking the iPod success will be around forever. Even the venerable Walkman ran out of gas. It happens sooner or later to all consumer products.
Plus, now more than every, Microsoft is weakening, and Apple should not let them fortify a new OS position for the next 20 years.
Yes, the monopoly won't go away instantly, but Apple does have the opportunity to help chip away at it and build market share.
But 10.5 needs to demonstrate the innovation that Jobs likes to brag about.
Very true...between now and Vista, Apple needs to win as many customers as possible. This means they need to release a relatively bug-free OS that is fast and has plenty of features. I hope they're being very careful with 10.5 because once Vista is out, Apple must have a converted enough people to keep people from switching.
Of course, time will tell whether Vista is a good OS...
If the spyware and virus infestations continue and if the OS performs slowly on today's computer (I know Vista is tiered when it comes to visual effects but...) then no amounts of feature will prevent some people from switching to Mac.
And because of these 3 elements, I think Apple is safe from being exterminated.
Of course, time will tell whether Vista is a good OS...
It is.
Yeah, we get bash Microsoft for ripping off Apple, Sun, and Be, but they did take the best ideas, and that's what they are going with.
It's disgraceful. Sure. But most people will care less about where the ideas come from.
Apple needs to take OSX to the next level, and equally important, iLife, and give Microsoft a run for their money. With the inroads open source is making, it can be done.
But if 10.5 is another mild bump with 2-3 truly new features out of the 200 Apple claims, it's going to be pretty ugly.
It is time for iLife and OSX to get major revisions.
Yeah, we get bash Microsoft for ripping off Apple, Sun, and Be, but they did take the best ideas, and that's what they are going with.
It's disgraceful. Sure. But most people will care less about where the ideas come from.
Apple needs to take OSX to the next level, and equally important, iLife, and give Microsoft a run for their money. With the inroads open source is making, it can be done.
But if 10.5 is another mild bump with 2-3 truly new features out of the 200 Apple claims, it's going to be pretty ugly.
It is time for iLife and OSX to get major revisions.
How many new huge features is Vista getting? I don't think you're giving OS X much credit...there were a lot more than 2-3 truly new features between 10.2 -> 10.3 and 10.3 -> 10.4.
If you're talking from a end-user's point of view (ones that can only really see the blindingly obvious features), then I don't think Vista will make people go "hey, that's a nice OS". A lot of what Vista will offer is for developers. Just like a lot of what 10.4 offered is for developers.
But if 10.5 is another mild bump with 2-3 truly new features out of the 200 Apple claims, it's going to be pretty ugly.
It is time for iLife and OSX to get major revisions.
I thought there were a lot more than 2-3 useful additions in Tiger. Granted, some of them were overdue. One is that there is the addition of a keyboard control method that lets users tab through all controllable buttons and drob-down boxes, that was not in Panther. Another was to allow the user to swap mouse buttons, not in Panther. The ability to rotate the screen without a poorly programmed third party extension was not in Panther. There are a whole bunch of minor improvements here and there, enough such that I could never go back to Panther.
Isn't iLife an annually updated program? I would expect a revision early next year then, iLife '05 was announced and released near the end of Jan '05, I hope the same is true of '06. '05 was only out for nine months.
I like the Firefox widgets because they don't rape any custom buttons that a website has made. That said, Safari does have an overall better look, however, the extensions, themes, standards compliance, and nice details in Firefox make it the winning browser for me.
But to put it bluntly, I don't give a donkeys diddle about someones artistic spurge of wanting to butcher a perfectly good button the name of 'making it cool for da website!"
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
If they make it more Mac-like, that's fine; I'd love to see a Customize Toolbar slidedown rather than a popup window; little globules instead of unantialiased beveled squares of ugliness, etc. If they allowed the widgets to be themed as well as the toolbar and scrollbars, that would be great.
Why not make the whole damn thing theme-able so that one can create a native Mac theme that covers all facits of the application, not just toolbars, but widgets as well - including an option to override a websites ability to modify the theme on buttons and so forth.
[B]Of course not all bugs effect everyone and any implication that this one did was unintended. This particular bug affects different users on different systems with different varieties/sizes of iPhoto libraries. It's reproducible once it "randomly" appears. I've been able to "manually" repair the libraries so iPhoto temporarily behaves properly but the trouble eventually reappears. The common denominator seems to be images imported from a Canon SD200. I haven't gotten around to the time-consuming task of hopefully isolating it with enough detail for a bug report that Apple hopefully pays attention to.
I've noticed a lot of bugs using OS X since 10.1 and this is the only one I can remember where a "reasonable" workaround has eluded me. To stop importing Canon SD200 images qualified as unreasonable because it would make iPhoto essentially useless for my family. Thus my frustration.
Okay, so I'm picking this thread up long after it's dropped off the radar, but a similar iPhoto bug has been driving me crazy too, and tonight I've been able to reliably reproduce it on my machine. So if anyone is still subscribed to this thread, it may help him/her.
This is what causes iPhoto to hang for me when switching between applications: if the contents of a smart album are being displayed, then it will hang. If a regular album or the entire library is being shown, then it is fine. Your mileage may vary. I've reported my finding to Apple too, so hopefully they'll fix it in short order.
This is what causes iPhoto to hang for me when switching between applications: if the contents of a smart album are being displayed, then it will hang. If a regular album or the entire library is being shown, then it is fine. Your mileage may vary.
Are you running 10.4.3? I read somewhere that it "fixed" someone's iPhoto app switching bug, which I can't recreate on my 10.4.3 systems with the method you've described.
iPhoto will hang every time when I launch it and immediately duplicate a photo. I can temporarily avoid that problem by viewing a photo first but eventually something I do will trigger the Force Quit-requiring hang.
I believe kwsanders was asking for information about a possible next J2SE 5.0 seed release (i.e. a developer preview). As far as I know, Apple hasn't released any new information about such an update.
I believe kwsanders was asking for information about a possible next J2SE 5.0 seed release (i.e. a developer preview). As far as I know, Apple hasn't released any new information about such an update.
Yes. I wasn't sure if they had seeded a new release lately. Thanks for the information.
Java 2 Platform Standard Edition (J2SE) 5.0 Release 3 includes version 1.5.0_05 and improves functionality of J2SE 5.0 on Mac OS X v 10.4 Tiger 10.4.2 and later. This release does not replace the existing installation of J2SE 1.4.2.
Comments
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Ok, here's what pisses me off with some of you (I'm not saying that you fall into this category, but I know some that are complaining do):
When Tiger was in its later dev stages, some people were so impatient and anxious to get their hands on Tiger that they were crying like little babies begging Apple to release it.
Apple released it. These same people that were shedding tears now realized that Tiger wasn't actually up to snuff and was causing problems on their machine.
Now, I'm not specifically targeting you, BWhaler...but those that did have that attitude should calm the f down.
I agree, and I was one of the old salty IT guys who said Apple should take their time given how critical an OS is and get it right. Sure, it's never going to be bug free, but at least high quality and thoughtful design.
The weird thing is why Apple released it when they did. At first, I wasn't too salty about it because I figured either Apple needed the revenue for the quarter or for some new product launch. But when neither proved true, I got pissed off since it was just sloppiness, and nothing more. Sure, the new pro apps needed Tiger, but they could of waited for a quality OS for a few months. And Apple crushed that quarter's numbers.
I guess we now know that the posts of a few of the beta testers back in March were true...when people were saying they couldn't believe the last build was going gold...
Oh well. I hope 10.4.3 is what Tiger should of been and Apple learned from this experience. Longhorn is shaping up very nicely--I know, I am as shocked as anyone else--and 10.5 has to be a quantum leap over 10.4 and Longhorn for the Mac business to keep growing. Windows 95 was MS "good enough" copy of OS9, and Longhorn is their "good enough, better in some ways" copy of OSX
Win 95 almost killed the Mac and Apple.
I just hope Apple is smart enough to not let history repeat itself and fool themselves into thinking the iPod success will be around forever. Even the venerable Walkman ran out of gas. It happens sooner or later to all consumer products.
Plus, now more than every, Microsoft is weakening, and Apple should not let them fortify a new OS position for the next 20 years.
Yes, the monopoly won't go away instantly, but Apple does have the opportunity to help chip away at it and build market share.
But 10.5 needs to demonstrate the innovation that Jobs likes to brag about.
Originally posted by JeffDM
I am far more concerned about the program behaving the way I want it to than I am over looks.
I would use Safari if it had any sort of open extensibility that I could use, there's no easy extensibility on the user side. Maybe there is, but I can use the same development efforts of Firefox Linux and FF Windows users, the same extensions generally work on the three computing platforms that I use.
I use Firefox to block web annoyances, FlashBlock, Adblock and the ability to turn off image animation, block certain web sites, certain images. There are a lot of other extensions that I use to make the web easier that have no adequate counterpart in Safari. To me, blocking excessive ads and stopping animation ads on sites with text and still-image content is more important than pretty buttons.
There's only PithHelmet and for me it thoughroughly misbehaves with gmail.
Hear, hear! Firefox extensions is what makes firefox different and better then the rest. I used Explorer at work a couple of times and couldn't believe the mess the web pages were. Hell, MacNN was driving me insane, and that was before I started reading the comments!
But the thing to remember here is that, IIRC, the thing that makes extensions work cross-platform is tied to the XUL they use for the interface. So tossing the XUL would cause the extensions to not work (and why, I think, they don't work in Camino, which is good enough reasons NOT to use that browser).
Pithhelmet is OK, but not as easy to use or setup as Adblock to block crap. Its got a lot of defaults which are set up to block on size, which is great except it seems to filter out valid content as well (I was on paypal yesterday reporting a spoof email, and noticed that pithhelmet was blocking all image content from that site, not sure why). It also is harder to set up to allow certain ads but not others (not everyone believes all ads should be blocked, just the annoying ones, which, well, does make up most of the ads).
Originally posted by BWhaler
I agree, and I was one of the old salty IT guys who said Apple should take their time given how critical an OS is and get it right. Sure, it's never going to be bug free, but at least high quality and thoughtful design.
...
I just hope Apple is smart enough to not let history repeat itself and fool themselves into thinking the iPod success will be around forever. Even the venerable Walkman ran out of gas. It happens sooner or later to all consumer products.
Plus, now more than every, Microsoft is weakening, and Apple should not let them fortify a new OS position for the next 20 years.
Yes, the monopoly won't go away instantly, but Apple does have the opportunity to help chip away at it and build market share.
But 10.5 needs to demonstrate the innovation that Jobs likes to brag about.
Very true...between now and Vista, Apple needs to win as many customers as possible. This means they need to release a relatively bug-free OS that is fast and has plenty of features. I hope they're being very careful with 10.5 because once Vista is out, Apple must have a converted enough people to keep people from switching.
Of course, time will tell whether Vista is a good OS...
If the spyware and virus infestations continue and if the OS performs slowly on today's computer (I know Vista is tiered when it comes to visual effects but...) then no amounts of feature will prevent some people from switching to Mac.
And because of these 3 elements, I think Apple is safe from being exterminated.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Of course, time will tell whether Vista is a good OS...
It is.
Yeah, we get bash Microsoft for ripping off Apple, Sun, and Be, but they did take the best ideas, and that's what they are going with.
It's disgraceful. Sure. But most people will care less about where the ideas come from.
Apple needs to take OSX to the next level, and equally important, iLife, and give Microsoft a run for their money. With the inroads open source is making, it can be done.
But if 10.5 is another mild bump with 2-3 truly new features out of the 200 Apple claims, it's going to be pretty ugly.
It is time for iLife and OSX to get major revisions.
Originally posted by BWhaler
It is.
Yeah, we get bash Microsoft for ripping off Apple, Sun, and Be, but they did take the best ideas, and that's what they are going with.
It's disgraceful. Sure. But most people will care less about where the ideas come from.
Apple needs to take OSX to the next level, and equally important, iLife, and give Microsoft a run for their money. With the inroads open source is making, it can be done.
But if 10.5 is another mild bump with 2-3 truly new features out of the 200 Apple claims, it's going to be pretty ugly.
It is time for iLife and OSX to get major revisions.
How many new huge features is Vista getting? I don't think you're giving OS X much credit...there were a lot more than 2-3 truly new features between 10.2 -> 10.3 and 10.3 -> 10.4.
If you're talking from a end-user's point of view (ones that can only really see the blindingly obvious features), then I don't think Vista will make people go "hey, that's a nice OS". A lot of what Vista will offer is for developers. Just like a lot of what 10.4 offered is for developers.
Originally posted by BWhaler
But if 10.5 is another mild bump with 2-3 truly new features out of the 200 Apple claims, it's going to be pretty ugly.
It is time for iLife and OSX to get major revisions.
I thought there were a lot more than 2-3 useful additions in Tiger. Granted, some of them were overdue. One is that there is the addition of a keyboard control method that lets users tab through all controllable buttons and drob-down boxes, that was not in Panther. Another was to allow the user to swap mouse buttons, not in Panther. The ability to rotate the screen without a poorly programmed third party extension was not in Panther. There are a whole bunch of minor improvements here and there, enough such that I could never go back to Panther.
Isn't iLife an annually updated program? I would expect a revision early next year then, iLife '05 was announced and released near the end of Jan '05, I hope the same is true of '06. '05 was only out for nine months.
Originally posted by BWhaler
But if 10.5 is another mild bump with 2-3 truly new features out of the 200 Apple claims, it's going to be pretty ugly.
It is time for iLife and OSX to get major revisions.
What specifically will Vista offer to you that Tiger and iLife '05 currently don't (and that you expect Leopard and iLife '06 not to)?
Originally posted by Chucker
What specifically will Vista offer to you that Tiger and iLife '05 currently don't (and that you expect Leopard and iLife '06 not to)?
Considering Vista will be released near the end of 2006...it'll be up against iLife '07.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Considering Vista will be released near the end of 2006...it'll be up against iLife '07.
Point taken, but I was just trying to be fair.
Originally posted by Placebo
I like the Firefox widgets because they don't rape any custom buttons that a website has made. That said, Safari does have an overall better look, however, the extensions, themes, standards compliance, and nice details in Firefox make it the winning browser for me.
But to put it bluntly, I don't give a donkeys diddle about someones artistic spurge of wanting to butcher a perfectly good button the name of 'making it cool for da website!"
Originally posted by Placebo
If they make it more Mac-like, that's fine; I'd love to see a Customize Toolbar slidedown rather than a popup window; little globules instead of unantialiased beveled squares of ugliness, etc. If they allowed the widgets to be themed as well as the toolbar and scrollbars, that would be great.
Why not make the whole damn thing theme-able so that one can create a native Mac theme that covers all facits of the application, not just toolbars, but widgets as well - including an option to override a websites ability to modify the theme on buttons and so forth.
Originally posted by sjk
[B]Of course not all bugs effect everyone and any implication that this one did was unintended. This particular bug affects different users on different systems with different varieties/sizes of iPhoto libraries. It's reproducible once it "randomly" appears. I've been able to "manually" repair the libraries so iPhoto temporarily behaves properly but the trouble eventually reappears. The common denominator seems to be images imported from a Canon SD200. I haven't gotten around to the time-consuming task of hopefully isolating it with enough detail for a bug report that Apple hopefully pays attention to.
I've noticed a lot of bugs using OS X since 10.1 and this is the only one I can remember where a "reasonable" workaround has eluded me. To stop importing Canon SD200 images qualified as unreasonable because it would make iPhoto essentially useless for my family. Thus my frustration.
Okay, so I'm picking this thread up long after it's dropped off the radar, but a similar iPhoto bug has been driving me crazy too, and tonight I've been able to reliably reproduce it on my machine. So if anyone is still subscribed to this thread, it may help him/her.
This is what causes iPhoto to hang for me when switching between applications: if the contents of a smart album are being displayed, then it will hang. If a regular album or the entire library is being shown, then it is fine. Your mileage may vary. I've reported my finding to Apple too, so hopefully they'll fix it in short order.
Originally posted by chromos
This is what causes iPhoto to hang for me when switching between applications: if the contents of a smart album are being displayed, then it will hang. If a regular album or the entire library is being shown, then it is fine. Your mileage may vary.
Are you running 10.4.3? I read somewhere that it "fixed" someone's iPhoto app switching bug, which I can't recreate on my 10.4.3 systems with the method you've described.
iPhoto will hang every time when I launch it and immediately duplicate a photo. I can temporarily avoid that problem by viewing a photo first but eventually something I do will trigger the Force Quit-requiring hang.
Originally posted by kwsanders
This thread originally mentioned a possible seed of J2SE 5.0. Has there been any new word on this?
Available since last April.
http://www.apple.com/support/downloa...0release1.html
Originally posted by Endymion
Available since last April.
http://www.apple.com/support/downloa...0release1.html
I believe kwsanders was asking for information about a possible next J2SE 5.0 seed release (i.e. a developer preview). As far as I know, Apple hasn't released any new information about such an update.
Originally posted by edibiase
I believe kwsanders was asking for information about a possible next J2SE 5.0 seed release (i.e. a developer preview). As far as I know, Apple hasn't released any new information about such an update.
Yes. I wasn't sure if they had seeded a new release lately. Thanks for the information.
Originally posted by kwsanders
Yes. I wasn't sure if they had seeded a new release lately.
They have, and the final release is imminent.
Java 2 Platform Standard Edition (J2SE) 5.0 Release 3 includes version 1.5.0_05 and improves functionality of J2SE 5.0 on Mac OS X v 10.4 Tiger 10.4.2 and later. This release does not replace the existing installation of J2SE 1.4.2.
For more details on this Update, please visit this website: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302412