OH! I just figured out that when Midwinter linked to "my Lost WikI", he meant his "Lost Wiki".
Holy moly you are as a God to me.
I don't ask for much. The occasional goat and a virgin now and then.
But yeah. It started out as a way for me and some friends to keep information straight. But starting a few days ago, the wiki got linked by the TWOP Lost forum and traffic has really shot up. Two people have been making about 100+ edits a day.
I don't think they sleep. Seriously. One guy edited it for like 20 hours straight.
Yes. Elaborately cross-connected mythologies have always been intellectual crack (for a certain kind of intellect) and the elaborately cross-connected internets turn that into some kind of super death crack.
And now Abrams and company are going to go that extra mile with extended media tie-ins. They'll probably fund a deep sea dive that discovers Hurley's numbers etched on the stones of Atlantis, along with a faint but recognizable pictogram of a polar bear, timed to coincide from the first fruits of SETI-- a dim, static laden rendering of "Somewhere Over the Sea", originating in the area of Alpha Centauri. And all over the globe a fevered cabal of enthusiasts will try to match the celestial coordinates of that star with numerological insights.
Sometimes I think Abrams woke up one morning and decided that his access to Television could make him the post-modern Joyce: that he could weave an insanely intricate web of interconnections, associations and symbols that, instead limning a world sublimely choreographed to the music of history and sensation, would mimic schizophrenia, and its spreading haze of provisional, deeply unreliable portent, its garbled messages, paranoid notions of causality and and ad hoc structures of meaning assembled from the detritus on the beach.
You wanna know my epiphany the other morning? I was sitting around, minding my own business, when suddenly I remembered that in Hebrew, "Aaron" (the name of Claire's baby) means something like "bearer of martyrs."
Then it occurred to me: Hebrew letters are also numbers. This is terribly un-authoritative, but 4 means "fruit, fresh, young, greening"; 8 means "destruction, wretched"; 15 means "longing, desire"; 16 means "reed/papyrus ships"; 23 means "my father has gathered/father of gathering"; 42 means "father of pleasantness"; 108 (sum of these) means "mist." 4815162342 means "father, protector, originator."
You wanna know my epiphany the other morning? I was sitting around, minding my own business, when suddenly I remembered that in Hebrew, "Aaron" (the name of Claire's baby) means something like "bearer of martyrs."
Then it occurred to me: Hebrew letters are also numbers. This is terribly un-authoritative, but 4 means "fruit, fresh, young, greening"; 8 means "destruction, wretched"; 15 means "longing, desire"; 16 means "reed/papyrus ships"; 23 means "my father has gathered/father of gathering"; 42 means "father of pleasantness"; 108 (sum of these) means "mist." 4815162342 means "father, protector, originator."
So what if the numbers are a sentence and a word?
That would be awesome, but just how erudite do you figure ABC scriptwriters to be?
That was kinda my "anti-Joyce" idea; whereas it took the enormous erudition and skills of Joyce to marshall, say, the polyglot "Ulysses" into a genuine fractal thing of beauty, just how good could a television writing staff be at maintaining hierarchies of order amongst seemingly unlimited threads of meaning?
Hence my fear of a "stunt"-- that while they may be able to "put a lot of stuff in there", are they really choreographing something large and wonderful, or just turning portent loose in the wild, to interbreed as it may?
Well, Abrams and that guy who came up with the idea claim they've got it plotted out for 4-5 years, and that's that. They're not going to drag it on, a la the X-Files.
Well, Abrams and that guy who came up with the idea claim they've got it plotted out for 4-5 years, and that's that. They're not going to drag it on, a la the X-Files.
Oh? Didn't know that. Well, thank God, now I can quit worrying I'm being systematically driven mad for no reason and devote myself to adding to your Lost Wiki! Please disregard all ramblings above (although somebody really do something like that, just for the shear perverse glee of it).
Here's a theory I'm currently mulling over: the "thing" on the Island that attracted the bunker guys is some kind of (the?) psychic loadstone. For those that are uniquely susceptible (owing to father problems? Susceptibility causes father problems?), it's influence is far ranging and life long, hence the tangled biographies of those that it has ultimately drawn to its domain.
The numbers are the thing's numerological fingerprint, in some way that relates to its geometry or composition or something, in the same way that a crystal lattice be described numerically.
It's been radiating its mojo since man first thought his first thought, so its web of "coincidence" is thoroughly mixed into our symbol systems, as in your hebrew analysis of its call sign.
Oh? Didn't know that. Well, thank God, now I can quit worrying I'm being systematically driven mad for no reason and devote myself to adding to your Lost Wiki! Please disregard all ramblings above (although somebody really do something like that, just for the shear perverse glee of it).
Here's a theory I'm currently mulling over: the "thing" on the Island that attracted the bunker guys is some kind of (the?) psychic loadstone. For those that are uniquely susceptible (owing to father problems? Susceptibility causes father problems?), it's influence is far ranging and life long, hence the tangled biographies of those that it has ultimately drawn to its domain.
The numbers are the thing's numerological fingerprint, in some way that relates to its geometry or composition or something, in the same way that a crystal lattice be described numerically.
It's been radiating its mojo since man first thought his first thought, so its web of "coincidence" is thoroughly mixed into our symbol systems, as in your hebrew analysis of its call sign.
Great show overall, but one thing is really bothering me so far about Season 2:
Nobody, especially Jack, seems concerned about the quarantine signs, or the mysterious substance the Bunker Guy (can't remember his name) was injecting himself with.
actually, jack makes mention of this in "orientation," as he is convinced that desmond was literally a rat in a cage, told to press a button one about every 1 3/4 hours, given vague instructions about why, and see how long he would do it. this would be based directly off their mention that the degroots were following in the footsteps of b.f. skinner... i won't delve too much into his backgrund (i've only read synopses and summaries of his theories and writings), but the whole "conditioning via stimulus" is his big thing.
so jack just thinks the "quarantine" thing is there to essentially keep desmond... or whomever... from ever leaving their cage. heck, desmond is riding the bicyle (hamster in wheel?), and is taking injections of god-knows-what often.. heck, it might be every 108 minutes.
anyway, that's why jack doesn't care about the quarantinne signs. he thinks desmond's been lied to about the dangers around him to condition him into behavior. and unfortunately for desmond, jack believes he got mixed up in an experiment that someone abandoned, but never bothered to tell the rats in the cage.
i think the key to keeping things interesting is that every episode MUST reveal something, while also HIDING or CONFUSING something else. what killed x-files for me was that it seemed like we had an entire SEASON of questions towards the end with no answers... just when we thought we were getting close to the truth when the movie came out.
by thw way, another bit about b.f. skinner: in his book "walden ii", he theorized (and this is a HUGE simplification, so don't kill me if i'm a bit off in my summary) that a utopian comune could be created through proper conditioning. in other words, REMOVE all negative conditioning, and people will live as they were meant to. this means, of course, also removing all the negative INFLUENCES, inculding people. he felt that social constructs like "good and bad" were screwed up in the real world, because bad was so often rewarded. but if people were allowed to simply live their lives with positive conditioning to their actions, then everyone would be happy.
this might explain why goodwin's people only took the "good people." he did ask ana-lucia rhetorically "what makes you think they're attacking us?" he and his band of others may be removing anyone they deem "innocent" into their utopia. i also get the distinct impression that other "others" on the island (ethan rom, rousseau) do not share that perspective, and may, in fact, be "sick" -- goodwin and his folks may have been trying to rescue survivors from ethan, rousseau and each other. which might also explain their fixation on the young.
if you tune into the lost podcast (which honestly, is not very good... the producers do not know how to talk into a mic for extended periods of time, but i digress...), they said that they DO have an endpoint, they're just not sure how long they will take to get there. they liken it to a roadtrip from los angeles to boston. some days they'll catch the sights liek the grand canyon. other times, like this week, they'll try to drive across texas in a single day.
"Ethan Rom" is one of those odd sounding names that seems to imply an anagram.
So: "more than", "a torn hem", "Mr. No Hate", fun, but for my money:
"Other man".
(Sorry Midwinter, I should be doing this over at your site).
the commonly accepted anagram is indeed "other man" (as seen in one of the easter eggs on www.oceanic-air.com).
i'm surprised no one has tried to delve into the significance of the orientation film being hidden behind the book "the turn of the screw" (which, amusingly, is what the movie "the others" was based on).
the commonly accepted anagram is indeed "other man" (as seen in one of the easter eggs on www.oceanic-air.com).
i'm surprised no one has tried to delve into the significance of the orientation film being hidden behind the book "the turn of the screw" (which, amusingly, is what the movie "the others" was based on).
Whoa, I hit on the "commonly accepted anagram"?
Clearly I need to stop speculating and go bone up on the current thinking.
"The Turn of the Screw" AKA "The Others" sounds like the writers little joke, albeit a really clever one.
Or are there aspects of "The Turn of the Screw" that seem relevant (other than just generalized spookiness and consorting with the dead and whatnot)?
Whoops, there I go speculating again. I'm sure this has all been hashed out somewhere.
Comments
Holy moly you are as a God to me.
Originally posted by addabox
OH! I just figured out that when Midwinter linked to "my Lost WikI", he meant his "Lost Wiki".
Holy moly you are as a God to me.
I don't ask for much. The occasional goat and a virgin now and then.
But yeah. It started out as a way for me and some friends to keep information straight. But starting a few days ago, the wiki got linked by the TWOP Lost forum and traffic has really shot up. Two people have been making about 100+ edits a day.
I don't think they sleep. Seriously. One guy edited it for like 20 hours straight.
And now Abrams and company are going to go that extra mile with extended media tie-ins. They'll probably fund a deep sea dive that discovers Hurley's numbers etched on the stones of Atlantis, along with a faint but recognizable pictogram of a polar bear, timed to coincide from the first fruits of SETI-- a dim, static laden rendering of "Somewhere Over the Sea", originating in the area of Alpha Centauri. And all over the globe a fevered cabal of enthusiasts will try to match the celestial coordinates of that star with numerological insights.
Sometimes I think Abrams woke up one morning and decided that his access to Television could make him the post-modern Joyce: that he could weave an insanely intricate web of interconnections, associations and symbols that, instead limning a world sublimely choreographed to the music of history and sensation, would mimic schizophrenia, and its spreading haze of provisional, deeply unreliable portent, its garbled messages, paranoid notions of causality and and ad hoc structures of meaning assembled from the detritus on the beach.
Then it occurred to me: Hebrew letters are also numbers. This is terribly un-authoritative, but 4 means "fruit, fresh, young, greening"; 8 means "destruction, wretched"; 15 means "longing, desire"; 16 means "reed/papyrus ships"; 23 means "my father has gathered/father of gathering"; 42 means "father of pleasantness"; 108 (sum of these) means "mist." 4815162342 means "father, protector, originator."
So what if the numbers are a sentence and a word?
Originally posted by midwinter
You wanna know my epiphany the other morning? I was sitting around, minding my own business, when suddenly I remembered that in Hebrew, "Aaron" (the name of Claire's baby) means something like "bearer of martyrs."
Then it occurred to me: Hebrew letters are also numbers. This is terribly un-authoritative, but 4 means "fruit, fresh, young, greening"; 8 means "destruction, wretched"; 15 means "longing, desire"; 16 means "reed/papyrus ships"; 23 means "my father has gathered/father of gathering"; 42 means "father of pleasantness"; 108 (sum of these) means "mist." 4815162342 means "father, protector, originator."
So what if the numbers are a sentence and a word?
That would be awesome, but just how erudite do you figure ABC scriptwriters to be?
That was kinda my "anti-Joyce" idea; whereas it took the enormous erudition and skills of Joyce to marshall, say, the polyglot "Ulysses" into a genuine fractal thing of beauty, just how good could a television writing staff be at maintaining hierarchies of order amongst seemingly unlimited threads of meaning?
Hence my fear of a "stunt"-- that while they may be able to "put a lot of stuff in there", are they really choreographing something large and wonderful, or just turning portent loose in the wild, to interbreed as it may?
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Originally posted by midwinter
Well, Abrams and that guy who came up with the idea claim they've got it plotted out for 4-5 years, and that's that. They're not going to drag it on, a la the X-Files.
Oh? Didn't know that. Well, thank God, now I can quit worrying I'm being systematically driven mad for no reason and devote myself to adding to your Lost Wiki! Please disregard all ramblings above (although somebody really do something like that, just for the shear perverse glee of it).
Here's a theory I'm currently mulling over: the "thing" on the Island that attracted the bunker guys is some kind of (the?) psychic loadstone. For those that are uniquely susceptible (owing to father problems? Susceptibility causes father problems?), it's influence is far ranging and life long, hence the tangled biographies of those that it has ultimately drawn to its domain.
The numbers are the thing's numerological fingerprint, in some way that relates to its geometry or composition or something, in the same way that a crystal lattice be described numerically.
It's been radiating its mojo since man first thought his first thought, so its web of "coincidence" is thoroughly mixed into our symbol systems, as in your hebrew analysis of its call sign.
Originally posted by addabox
Oh? Didn't know that. Well, thank God, now I can quit worrying I'm being systematically driven mad for no reason and devote myself to adding to your Lost Wiki! Please disregard all ramblings above (although somebody really do something like that, just for the shear perverse glee of it).
Here's a theory I'm currently mulling over: the "thing" on the Island that attracted the bunker guys is some kind of (the?) psychic loadstone. For those that are uniquely susceptible (owing to father problems? Susceptibility causes father problems?), it's influence is far ranging and life long, hence the tangled biographies of those that it has ultimately drawn to its domain.
The numbers are the thing's numerological fingerprint, in some way that relates to its geometry or composition or something, in the same way that a crystal lattice be described numerically.
It's been radiating its mojo since man first thought his first thought, so its web of "coincidence" is thoroughly mixed into our symbol systems, as in your hebrew analysis of its call sign.
We do have a "thoughts and theories" page.
Originally posted by iPoster
Great show overall, but one thing is really bothering me so far about Season 2:
Nobody, especially Jack, seems concerned about the quarantine signs, or the mysterious substance the Bunker Guy (can't remember his name) was injecting himself with.
actually, jack makes mention of this in "orientation," as he is convinced that desmond was literally a rat in a cage, told to press a button one about every 1 3/4 hours, given vague instructions about why, and see how long he would do it. this would be based directly off their mention that the degroots were following in the footsteps of b.f. skinner... i won't delve too much into his backgrund (i've only read synopses and summaries of his theories and writings), but the whole "conditioning via stimulus" is his big thing.
so jack just thinks the "quarantine" thing is there to essentially keep desmond... or whomever... from ever leaving their cage. heck, desmond is riding the bicyle (hamster in wheel?), and is taking injections of god-knows-what often.. heck, it might be every 108 minutes.
anyway, that's why jack doesn't care about the quarantinne signs. he thinks desmond's been lied to about the dangers around him to condition him into behavior. and unfortunately for desmond, jack believes he got mixed up in an experiment that someone abandoned, but never bothered to tell the rats in the cage.
I think it's called "The Third Policeman".
Originally posted by addabox
Midwinter, have you read (or do you plan to read) the book shown in the show that apparently has such significance?
I think it's called "The Third Policeman".
Yeah. I haven't picked it up yet, but I'm planning on giving it a look.
by thw way, another bit about b.f. skinner: in his book "walden ii", he theorized (and this is a HUGE simplification, so don't kill me if i'm a bit off in my summary) that a utopian comune could be created through proper conditioning. in other words, REMOVE all negative conditioning, and people will live as they were meant to. this means, of course, also removing all the negative INFLUENCES, inculding people. he felt that social constructs like "good and bad" were screwed up in the real world, because bad was so often rewarded. but if people were allowed to simply live their lives with positive conditioning to their actions, then everyone would be happy.
this might explain why goodwin's people only took the "good people." he did ask ana-lucia rhetorically "what makes you think they're attacking us?" he and his band of others may be removing anyone they deem "innocent" into their utopia. i also get the distinct impression that other "others" on the island (ethan rom, rousseau) do not share that perspective, and may, in fact, be "sick" -- goodwin and his folks may have been trying to rescue survivors from ethan, rousseau and each other. which might also explain their fixation on the young.
if you tune into the lost podcast (which honestly, is not very good... the producers do not know how to talk into a mic for extended periods of time, but i digress...), they said that they DO have an endpoint, they're just not sure how long they will take to get there. they liken it to a roadtrip from los angeles to boston. some days they'll catch the sights liek the grand canyon. other times, like this week, they'll try to drive across texas in a single day.
So: "more than", "a torn hem", "Mr. No Hate", fun, but for my money:
"Other man".
(Sorry Midwinter, I should be doing this over at your site).
Originally posted by addabox
"Ethan Rom" is one of those odd sounding names that seems to imply an anagram.
So: "more than", "a torn hem", "Mr. No Hate", fun, but for my money:
"Other man".
(Sorry Midwinter, I should be doing this over at your site).
the commonly accepted anagram is indeed "other man" (as seen in one of the easter eggs on www.oceanic-air.com).
i'm surprised no one has tried to delve into the significance of the orientation film being hidden behind the book "the turn of the screw" (which, amusingly, is what the movie "the others" was based on).
Originally posted by rok
the commonly accepted anagram is indeed "other man" (as seen in one of the easter eggs on www.oceanic-air.com).
i'm surprised no one has tried to delve into the significance of the orientation film being hidden behind the book "the turn of the screw" (which, amusingly, is what the movie "the others" was based on).
Whoa, I hit on the "commonly accepted anagram"?
Clearly I need to stop speculating and go bone up on the current thinking.
"The Turn of the Screw" AKA "The Others" sounds like the writers little joke, albeit a really clever one.
Or are there aspects of "The Turn of the Screw" that seem relevant (other than just generalized spookiness and consorting with the dead and whatnot)?
Whoops, there I go speculating again. I'm sure this has all been hashed out somewhere.
Originally posted by addabox
Whoa, I hit on the "commonly accepted anagram"?
well, by commonly accepted, of course i mean "i have seen it on at least one wiki, two blogs and one fan site, so it must be true."
but yeah, that seems to be the one peopel are fixating on.