I wish Apple would make the 'consumer' iBook with a more potent graphics card.
Fine if the PowerBook has a better graphics ability, it should have the best that it can have.
Still, there are Mac users who do like games, and who can afford an iBook, but not so much a PowerBook. There are people who run photoshop on an iBook, but I wouldn't think most pros would do that.
And the thought about building them tough, that is good. On a linux site(Ubuntu) hardware compatibility page link I see where HP is making their laptops and advertising them as being scratch resistant.
It doesn't offer any advantage over g and it offers two significant disadvantages: it's a different frequency, thus incompatible with b (unlike g, which is entirely compatible with b), and also because of the frequency, it's not legal in many regions of the world, as the frequency is already used up by military and similar.
The only reason why A is still around is because it is a different frequency. In many locations the 2.4Ghz range is saturated and cannot be used for reliable communication - that leaves A as the primary option.
... Has it occurred to you that, no matter what Apple does, those "normal people" (gee, thanks, I feel so above-normal now) will NEVER buy Apple, because they HATE the brand?
It seems very unlikely to me that the "normal people", which you defined as 98% of the computer-buying public, hate the Apple brand. After all, those "normal people" are buying iPods like they're going out of style. It looks like the iPod is going to be the top holiday gift for a second year, which is actually rather astonishing.
There are some folks who hate the Apple brand, Richard Stallman for example, but these folks are a tiny minority.
Anyway, as to the original post: I'm hoping for a subnotebook, 10" diagonal or smaller, with flash "disk", no optical drive or any other moving parts, battery life 8 hours or more, with built-in wifi/bluetooth. Firewire sync/charging to main computer. I'd like it to do handwriting, but I won't insist on a tablet. Small, light, rugged, beautiful.
"After all, those "normal people" are buying iPods like they're going out of style. It looks like the iPod is going to be the top holiday gift for a second year, which is actually rather astonishing."
The iPod sure has made a difference in Apple's visibility, at least in terms of the iPod, even if the Mac has been more quietly in the background. I meet a lot of kids who are having a pretty good view of Apple.
"Anyway, as to the original post: I'm hoping for a subnotebook, 10" diagonal or smaller, with flash "disk", no optical drive or any other moving parts, battery life 8 hours or more, with built-in wifi/bluetooth. Firewire sync/charging to main computer. I'd like it to do handwriting, but I won't insist on a tablet. Small, light, rugged, beautiful. [/B][/"QUOTE]
I second your thoughts on a small notebook with the flash memory, and yes, the FireWire synch too.
It seems very unlikely to me that the "normal people", which you defined as 98% of the computer-buying public,
Wrong, the person I quoted made that definition.
Quote:
hate the Apple brand.
I didn't claim that. I claimed that people who keep asserting that "Apple should do X, otherwise I won't buy" will never be satisfied with Apple's offerings, and simply aren't Apple's target audience.
Gene Clean wrote: "You added useless shit to the Dell laptop."
Not at all. I added what the PowerBook already had, in order to make them comparable, especially because Apple hardly has any BTO options, i.e. I couldn't have removed those feaures on Apple's side/site (hah).
Late to the discussion here, but Gene's right. It's a disadvantage precisely because you couldn't have removed those features. Think of the average consumer. He may not need all of that stuff. His options are to buy it all anyway in an unchangeable Apple configuration or buy a Dell without all that stuff for a lot cheaper. If I know most people, they'll go for the second option. Honestly, how many people need Gigabit Ethernet? Some for work intranets and fewer still for home networks, but the vast majority will be happy with 100Bt because they're just using cable modem or DSL, which won't even max out that port. Ditto for optical audio and DVD burner. Some people will want it, but others would love to save money not paying for features they won't use. I, for one, have never needed to burn a DVD on my Powerbook, but luckily, a combo drive was one of the options. As for the size and weight, again some people are more than willing to put up with a little more for a lot less cash.
I'm as much an Apple booster as the next guy, but sometimes when someone offers to refill your Kool-Aid, you just have to say, "No, thanks. I'm fine."
Late to the discussion here, but Gene's right. It's a disadvantage precisely because you couldn't have removed those features. Think of the average consumer. He may not need all of that stuff.
The challenge was to have two somewhat comparable laptops, then see if one of them has an extreme price increase over the other. The result was that the PowerBook's price was only about 10-15% higher, while being significantly smaller and lighter and having various features the Latitude simply did not offer.
Quote:
His options are to buy it all anyway in an unchangeable Apple configuration or buy a Dell without all that stuff for a lot cheaper. If I know most people, they'll go for the second option. Honestly, how many people need Gigabit Ethernet?
Again, that's not at question. Someone argued that Apple laptops are significantly more expensive. If you compare them feature-per-feature, they are not.
Whether many people need Gigabit Ethernet or not is regardless (the iBook doesn't have it).
Again, that's not at question. Someone argued that Apple laptops are significantly more expensive. If you compare them feature-per-feature, they are not.
"Feature for feature" is not a valid means of comparison for most people. What they care about is "what features am I willing to pay for." With Apple, you essentially have no choice. You want the big screen, you pay for all the other high-end doodads. Their thinking, and justifiably so, is that Apple is trying to ram all the expensive gee-gaws down their throats by not giving the option to remove them. If someone doesn't have the money, then all your proselytizing about the fancy features isn't going to get them to buy it. They'll go for the cheaper Dell which, by any true measure of the phrase, is significantly less expensive. (Unless you take into account TCO including frustrations with viruses, etc., but that's a different discussion.) It's just like comparing a Hyundai to a Porsche. You can talk all you want about how they're not comparable since the Porsche comes standard with so many more features that you can't even add to the Hyundai. But at the end of the day, a lot of people would say the Hyundai gets them where they need to go just fine.
"Feature for feature" is not a valid means of comparison for most people.
It is for me and for many others. For consumers, it is not, but a 17-inch laptop has just about nothing to do with consumers anyway.
Quote:
They'll go for the cheaper Dell which, by any true measure of the phrase, is significantly less expensive.
It is less expensive at the same time as it is less featureful. Not to mention it's meant for an entirely different market, since it is too thick and too heavy for the target audience of a PowerBook. The comparison is therefore heavily flawed.
Quote:
It's just like comparing a Hyundai to a Porsche. You can talk all you want about how they're not comparable since the Porsche comes standard with so many more features that you can't even add to the Hyundai. But at the end of the day, a lot of people would say the Hyundai gets them where they need to go just fine.
Exactly. And the Dell works as a laptop just fine. But that doesn't mean that Apple or Porsche are "overpriced".
- 2 buttons trackpad the way it works on the new Apple Pro mouse is a good solution : people can choose between 1 or 2 button config, whatever they like. But still the design stay clean.
- Current keyboard is very good, keep it that way
- More USB 2.0 ports (2 more ?): you don't want to use a hub while travelling
- CF (and the like) card reader : for me it's sort of bell and whistles stuff. With current cart capacities, I can take nearly 400 pix at 5 Million pixel : when I need them on my Mac, I just plug the USB cable. If I used several cards, I just put them in my camera one after the other and plug the camera n My Mac. The guy who need to unload more than 3 cards at once and feels like using a decicated port is so much quicker is a pro and can buy a separate card reader...
Really a card reader which allows for quick unloading of pix is OK but I prefer Apple to save space for more useful options
- way better WiFi reception
- less scratch prone case and no flacking paint (I still have my Ti lacking 10 % of its original paint). Apple do beautiful cases, I whish they could stay that way.
- If it was still possible I would give a limb to have a 2d hard drive/ battery bay
- no IR needed
- ok for an integrated iSight if they can keep it discreet
- same form factor except thinner and lighter
And I think the Apple designed Dock would be a must-have : now that the laptops are increasingly used in place of desktops, that we can have 30" hooked, that we can daisy chain FW hard drives and that a lot of stuff share the holy USB plug (scanner, printer, UPS, mouse, tablet, iPod, USB key, full sized keyboard etc.), it should be a great add-on. Dual 30" scream for it !
Except there's way too many formats to make this feasible, and I really don't want Apple favoring one for another cause that will inevitably create outrages.
Apple picking a technology is nothing new. Just look at how many times they have picked a new processor
The reality is that Apple just needs to pick a technology that has a lock on the professional market. That would be CF. That is if they want to pick any memory card technology at all. It would be more universal to just have a PCMCIA/CARDBUS slot or similar that can take chip/card carriers for any type of memory.
So in a way I agree just go for a flexible and universal solution.
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Except there's way too many formats to make this feasible, and I really don't want Apple favoring one for another cause that will inevitably create outrages.
Comments
Fine if the PowerBook has a better graphics ability, it should have the best that it can have.
Still, there are Mac users who do like games, and who can afford an iBook, but not so much a PowerBook. There are people who run photoshop on an iBook, but I wouldn't think most pros would do that.
And the thought about building them tough, that is good. On a linux site(Ubuntu) hardware compatibility page link I see where HP is making their laptops and advertising them as being scratch resistant.
Originally posted by Chucker
It doesn't offer any advantage over g and it offers two significant disadvantages: it's a different frequency, thus incompatible with b (unlike g, which is entirely compatible with b), and also because of the frequency, it's not legal in many regions of the world, as the frequency is already used up by military and similar.
The only reason why A is still around is because it is a different frequency. In many locations the 2.4Ghz range is saturated and cannot be used for reliable communication - that leaves A as the primary option.
Originally posted by Chucker
... Has it occurred to you that, no matter what Apple does, those "normal people" (gee, thanks, I feel so above-normal now) will NEVER buy Apple, because they HATE the brand?
It seems very unlikely to me that the "normal people", which you defined as 98% of the computer-buying public, hate the Apple brand. After all, those "normal people" are buying iPods like they're going out of style. It looks like the iPod is going to be the top holiday gift for a second year, which is actually rather astonishing.
There are some folks who hate the Apple brand, Richard Stallman for example, but these folks are a tiny minority.
Anyway, as to the original post: I'm hoping for a subnotebook, 10" diagonal or smaller, with flash "disk", no optical drive or any other moving parts, battery life 8 hours or more, with built-in wifi/bluetooth. Firewire sync/charging to main computer. I'd like it to do handwriting, but I won't insist on a tablet. Small, light, rugged, beautiful.
Originally posted by cubist
After all, those "normal people" are buying iPods like they're going out of style.
Somehow I don't think that's the right expression...if it even is one.
The iPod sure has made a difference in Apple's visibility, at least in terms of the iPod, even if the Mac has been more quietly in the background. I meet a lot of kids who are having a pretty good view of Apple.
"Anyway, as to the original post: I'm hoping for a subnotebook, 10" diagonal or smaller, with flash "disk", no optical drive or any other moving parts, battery life 8 hours or more, with built-in wifi/bluetooth. Firewire sync/charging to main computer. I'd like it to do handwriting, but I won't insist on a tablet. Small, light, rugged, beautiful. [/B][/"QUOTE]
I second your thoughts on a small notebook with the flash memory, and yes, the FireWire synch too.
Originally posted by cubist
It seems very unlikely to me that the "normal people", which you defined as 98% of the computer-buying public,
Wrong, the person I quoted made that definition.
hate the Apple brand.
I didn't claim that. I claimed that people who keep asserting that "Apple should do X, otherwise I won't buy" will never be satisfied with Apple's offerings, and simply aren't Apple's target audience.
1. no more beachball ever? ;-)
2. hardware assisted h.264 decoding/encoding
Apple's year of HD is an embarrasment considering half of their product line choke on a lowely 760 hd file.
Originally posted by Chucker
Gene Clean wrote: "You added useless shit to the Dell laptop."
Not at all. I added what the PowerBook already had, in order to make them comparable, especially because Apple hardly has any BTO options, i.e. I couldn't have removed those feaures on Apple's side/site (hah).
Late to the discussion here, but Gene's right. It's a disadvantage precisely because you couldn't have removed those features. Think of the average consumer. He may not need all of that stuff. His options are to buy it all anyway in an unchangeable Apple configuration or buy a Dell without all that stuff for a lot cheaper. If I know most people, they'll go for the second option. Honestly, how many people need Gigabit Ethernet? Some for work intranets and fewer still for home networks, but the vast majority will be happy with 100Bt because they're just using cable modem or DSL, which won't even max out that port. Ditto for optical audio and DVD burner. Some people will want it, but others would love to save money not paying for features they won't use. I, for one, have never needed to burn a DVD on my Powerbook, but luckily, a combo drive was one of the options. As for the size and weight, again some people are more than willing to put up with a little more for a lot less cash.
I'm as much an Apple booster as the next guy, but sometimes when someone offers to refill your Kool-Aid, you just have to say, "No, thanks. I'm fine."
Originally posted by Kolchak
Late to the discussion here, but Gene's right. It's a disadvantage precisely because you couldn't have removed those features. Think of the average consumer. He may not need all of that stuff.
The challenge was to have two somewhat comparable laptops, then see if one of them has an extreme price increase over the other. The result was that the PowerBook's price was only about 10-15% higher, while being significantly smaller and lighter and having various features the Latitude simply did not offer.
His options are to buy it all anyway in an unchangeable Apple configuration or buy a Dell without all that stuff for a lot cheaper. If I know most people, they'll go for the second option. Honestly, how many people need Gigabit Ethernet?
Again, that's not at question. Someone argued that Apple laptops are significantly more expensive. If you compare them feature-per-feature, they are not.
Whether many people need Gigabit Ethernet or not is regardless (the iBook doesn't have it).
Originally posted by Chucker
Again, that's not at question. Someone argued that Apple laptops are significantly more expensive. If you compare them feature-per-feature, they are not.
"Feature for feature" is not a valid means of comparison for most people. What they care about is "what features am I willing to pay for." With Apple, you essentially have no choice. You want the big screen, you pay for all the other high-end doodads. Their thinking, and justifiably so, is that Apple is trying to ram all the expensive gee-gaws down their throats by not giving the option to remove them. If someone doesn't have the money, then all your proselytizing about the fancy features isn't going to get them to buy it. They'll go for the cheaper Dell which, by any true measure of the phrase, is significantly less expensive. (Unless you take into account TCO including frustrations with viruses, etc., but that's a different discussion.) It's just like comparing a Hyundai to a Porsche. You can talk all you want about how they're not comparable since the Porsche comes standard with so many more features that you can't even add to the Hyundai. But at the end of the day, a lot of people would say the Hyundai gets them where they need to go just fine.
Originally posted by Kolchak
"Feature for feature" is not a valid means of comparison for most people.
It is for me and for many others. For consumers, it is not, but a 17-inch laptop has just about nothing to do with consumers anyway.
They'll go for the cheaper Dell which, by any true measure of the phrase, is significantly less expensive.
It is less expensive at the same time as it is less featureful. Not to mention it's meant for an entirely different market, since it is too thick and too heavy for the target audience of a PowerBook. The comparison is therefore heavily flawed.
It's just like comparing a Hyundai to a Porsche. You can talk all you want about how they're not comparable since the Porsche comes standard with so many more features that you can't even add to the Hyundai. But at the end of the day, a lot of people would say the Hyundai gets them where they need to go just fine.
Exactly. And the Dell works as a laptop just fine. But that doesn't mean that Apple or Porsche are "overpriced".
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...=i9300S2&s=dhs
= $$2,023
Apple, with 100GB 7200rpm drive added:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...mily=PowerBook
= $2499
(all prices are before taxes).
the difference is almost $500 dollars. Not small at all.
Originally posted by Chucker
I presume you're still talking about the 17-inch PowerBook, where the 7200 RPM 100 GB drive is a free option?
Which still doesn't change the $2499 price tag.
Apple is going to have to compete harder now that they will be using the same chipsets.
People will pay a price premium for Apple style and quality but only a certain %
- Current keyboard is very good, keep it that way
- More USB 2.0 ports (2 more ?): you don't want to use a hub while travelling
- CF (and the like) card reader : for me it's sort of bell and whistles stuff. With current cart capacities, I can take nearly 400 pix at 5 Million pixel : when I need them on my Mac, I just plug the USB cable. If I used several cards, I just put them in my camera one after the other and plug the camera n My Mac. The guy who need to unload more than 3 cards at once and feels like using a decicated port is so much quicker is a pro and can buy a separate card reader...
Really a card reader which allows for quick unloading of pix is OK but I prefer Apple to save space for more useful options
- way better WiFi reception
- less scratch prone case and no flacking paint (I still have my Ti lacking 10 % of its original paint). Apple do beautiful cases, I whish they could stay that way.
- If it was still possible I would give a limb to have a 2d hard drive/ battery bay
- no IR needed
- ok for an integrated iSight if they can keep it discreet
- same form factor except thinner and lighter
And I think the Apple designed Dock would be a must-have : now that the laptops are increasingly used in place of desktops, that we can have 30" hooked, that we can daisy chain FW hard drives and that a lot of stuff share the holy USB plug (scanner, printer, UPS, mouse, tablet, iPod, USB key, full sized keyboard etc.), it should be a great add-on. Dual 30" scream for it !
Originally posted by stephane36
- CF (and the like) card reader
Except there's way too many formats to make this feasible, and I really don't want Apple favoring one for another cause that will inevitably create outrages.
The reality is that Apple just needs to pick a technology that has a lock on the professional market. That would be CF. That is if they want to pick any memory card technology at all. It would be more universal to just have a PCMCIA/CARDBUS slot or similar that can take chip/card carriers for any type of memory.
So in a way I agree just go for a flexible and universal solution.
Dave
Originally posted by Chucker
Except there's way too many formats to make this feasible, and I really don't want Apple favoring one for another cause that will inevitably create outrages.
As more and more consumer cameras move to Wifi support the need for the card readers becomes more and more moot.
People unanimously need a decent screen and good battery life. I'd rather Apple spend money where it covers the most needs.