Finally, some help!! I'd recommend cycles from caffiene software as a cpu monitor. It's free and they make good stuff. Here's the <a href="http://www.caffeinesoft.com/products/download.htm"; target="_blank">link</a>. While you're there, check out pixenhance. Another freebie.
<strong>To track down what is causing you to page-out to VM so much, I'd try running some memory monitoring software (search for "MemoryMonitor" at versiontracker; it's what I run at home). This will display a graph with your memory usage in the dock (much like CPU monitor does). By keeping an eye on this graph you can see if all of a sudden, your RAM usage spikes, then you've found the culprit.
.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Great, thanks! I have not had time this weekend to fiddle. So if I use the memory monitor with no apps open and then out of the blue the ram usage spikes -that means the ram is defective?
Great, thanks! I have not had time this weekend to fiddle. So if I use the memory monitor with no apps open and then out of the blue the ram usage spikes -that means the ram is defective?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think he was saying that if you're using your computer and a program causes it to spike you've found a possible memory hog/memory bug. But the strategy would probably most useful with you watching the memory monitor while watching top -u in the terminal. If you catch a spike and a corresponding process jumps to the top, there's a problem. At this point, I'd still recommend just physically taking the memory out and seeing how it goes. Your computer should not be pokey (or at least any pokier than OS X is in some people's opinion) with 256 megs of RAM. If we can rule out the RAM as being a factor, by showing that your computer is actually faster without it, then we can move on to trying to figure out if it's a particular piece of software that's doing it. Good luck.
Bad memory would cause your iMac to crash, not run slowly. Running slowly is a software problem, not hardware. Software that uses all memory causing you to page out would slow down your mac. Software that hogs the CPU would slow down your mac. Software that monitors stuff so causes your computer to switch processes lots would slow down your mac.
Memory usage: I would use something like <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=11529&db=mac"; target="_blank">Memory Monitor</a> or some other monitoring application that has been suggested. When you see that memory is full, use something like top, or <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=13579&db=mac"; target="_blank">Memory Usage Getter</a> to see which application(s) is using all of your memory. An example of an application that I know uses lots of memory as time goes on is Internet Explorer.
CPU usage: Use something like CPU monitor in the utilities folder of your iMac to see when CPU usage maxes out. If it's happening frequently, use something like top in the Terminal or ProcessViewer if you prefer GUI apps (in the utilities folder) to see which applications are hogging CPU resources. Note: both top and ProcessViewer can monitor your memory usage as well.
Monitoring software: Software that monitors for viruses, memory usage, cpu usage, take up small bits of resources. If you run enough of these things, it could slow down your iMac some (shouldn't be much though). The big ones that I've seen really slow down my computer is virus scanning software.
If your iMac is still running slow and you can't find anything wrong at all, you may want to back up your stuff, reformat the drive and install from scratch. This will make sure that your drive isn't too fragmented which would degrade performance as well.
Hope somethig of this helps, and sorry for repeating my previous post a bunch.
Thanks everyone for their help. I will try taking out the memory in the next couple of days.
I don't see how the disc is fragmented, considering this is a brand new machine, g4 and all. (gets people stopping in the hallways I tell you!)
But the bad memory thing still seems plausible. rrabu, what do you mean by "crashing" -that I get the whole system crashing or just an app? I do have some strange behavior in office. Names that entourage crashes and quits if i just type a letter "f" without quickly typing a second letter. I have also seen some strange things with forwarded mail, where only parts actually get sent to my recipient.
ok i dont know weather this will help but its one of those things which although seemingly unrelated sometimes work. just zap the pram. =\\ u never know
I do have some strange behavior in office. Names that entourage crashes and quits if i just type a letter "f" without quickly typing a second letter.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please note this only happens when I am filling in the "send to:" when addressing an email. Entourage does an active search to find all address book entires that start with "f" so could this be stored in ram when i boot up? Bad ram could explain this.
<strong>Thanks everyone for their help. I will try taking out the memory in the next couple of days.
I don't see how the disc is fragmented, considering this is a brand new machine, g4 and all. (gets people stopping in the hallways I tell you!)
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
That's true. And you haven't had it that long either so I doubt that it would be due to cleanup being required. To be safe, you could go into the terminal and run the cleanup scripts (don't have to if you leave the computer on all the time). To run them, start Terminal and type
sudo sh /etc/daily
sudo sh /etc/weekly
sudo sh /etc/monthly
It will ask for your password. Shouldn't make a difference really, but doesn't hurt anything either. This just cleans up old log files and such.
[quote]Originally posted by jobagangles:
<strong>But the bad memory thing still seems plausible. rrabu, what do you mean by "crashing" -that I get the whole system crashing or just an app? I do have some strange behavior in office. Names that entourage crashes and quits if i just type a letter "f" without quickly typing a second letter. I have also seen some strange things with forwarded mail, where only parts actually get sent to my recipient.
Could that be a sign of a bad module?</strong><hr></blockquote>
This type of behavior certainly seems like signs of a bad module. It could also be bad software although if nobody else has reported this type of thing with office, I would think there is something abnormal happening with your iMac. You could try 2 things:
1. pull the memory and see if things run better after that (less quirky behavior and possibly faster).
2. Backup, format the drive and do a fresh install. If any installer has ever crashed on you before that might have messed stuff up in the system. I've had that problem once when I updated the system on my iBook and the installer crashed. It then wouldn't sleep properly.
Is it slow in a spinning-cursor sort of way, a disk-thrashing sort of way, or anything else? What have you noticed to be slow about it - i.e. is the finder unresponive, do apps take a while to load, etc..
I have noticed though that consumer macs can be a bit slow compared with pro models - for example, my Powerbook G3 266 is only marginally slower (perceptually speaking) than my RAM-stuffed iMac. If anyone could tell me why, that'd be cool
Do you think that the entourage quirkiness is really due to a bad module? I would think that a bad module would cause overall system instability and not a problem with a particular application. I still think that the ram should be pulled before doing anything like reinstalling software or anything drastic like that.
Actually, I would think that if the RAM was bad, the whole system would be unstable rather than just applications. But random chance could be that it's always M$ entourage that loads into the bad part of the module every time he tested although quite unlikely.
The application behavior would be caused by either the application or system in my opinion. A fresh install wouldn't be a bad idea. I've never used a factory install. Always only trusted my own.
To check for hardware problems, he could use the diagnostic CD provided by Apple that came with his iMac. It will check the RAM. I should have thought of this one earlier. I highly suggest doing this before opening the iMac to pull the RAM.
He could also try mounting several large disk images. The checksum validation should fail (at least sometimes) if the RAM is bad although the diagnostic CD should be a better test.
Just wanted to thank everyone again for their input. I ran the dianostic cd and naturally everything was fine.
So I bit the bullet (or the old 256 chip) and bought a 512 to bring the whole up to 768 megs. Wow, that really made a big difference. Now the system really flies and is clearly faster than my g4/500 at home.
FFWIW, I called microsoft on the entourage problem and they were mystified. Finally, they had me create a new user and access entourage from there, it didn't crash, but now I don't have any of my old emails or settings. Strange that I can't automatically import the old settings without replacing my user file.
Anyway, thanks again! I am finally glad I made the switch from PC to Mac at work. My co-workers are jealous and now asking our MIS when they can get Macs to replace their desktop PC boxes...
Comments
For a funky CPU monitor, check out this thing:
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/nibs/.Public/AquaMon.dmg"; target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/nibs/.Public/AquaMon.dmg</a>;
-robo
<strong>To track down what is causing you to page-out to VM so much, I'd try running some memory monitoring software (search for "MemoryMonitor" at versiontracker; it's what I run at home). This will display a graph with your memory usage in the dock (much like CPU monitor does). By keeping an eye on this graph you can see if all of a sudden, your RAM usage spikes, then you've found the culprit.
.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Great, thanks! I have not had time this weekend to fiddle. So if I use the memory monitor with no apps open and then out of the blue the ram usage spikes -that means the ram is defective?
<strong>
Great, thanks! I have not had time this weekend to fiddle. So if I use the memory monitor with no apps open and then out of the blue the ram usage spikes -that means the ram is defective?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think he was saying that if you're using your computer and a program causes it to spike you've found a possible memory hog/memory bug. But the strategy would probably most useful with you watching the memory monitor while watching top -u in the terminal. If you catch a spike and a corresponding process jumps to the top, there's a problem. At this point, I'd still recommend just physically taking the memory out and seeing how it goes. Your computer should not be pokey (or at least any pokier than OS X is in some people's opinion) with 256 megs of RAM. If we can rule out the RAM as being a factor, by showing that your computer is actually faster without it, then we can move on to trying to figure out if it's a particular piece of software that's doing it. Good luck.
Memory usage: I would use something like <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=11529&db=mac"; target="_blank">Memory Monitor</a> or some other monitoring application that has been suggested. When you see that memory is full, use something like top, or <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=13579&db=mac"; target="_blank">Memory Usage Getter</a> to see which application(s) is using all of your memory. An example of an application that I know uses lots of memory as time goes on is Internet Explorer.
CPU usage: Use something like CPU monitor in the utilities folder of your iMac to see when CPU usage maxes out. If it's happening frequently, use something like top in the Terminal or ProcessViewer if you prefer GUI apps (in the utilities folder) to see which applications are hogging CPU resources. Note: both top and ProcessViewer can monitor your memory usage as well.
Monitoring software: Software that monitors for viruses, memory usage, cpu usage, take up small bits of resources. If you run enough of these things, it could slow down your iMac some (shouldn't be much though). The big ones that I've seen really slow down my computer is virus scanning software.
If your iMac is still running slow and you can't find anything wrong at all, you may want to back up your stuff, reformat the drive and install from scratch. This will make sure that your drive isn't too fragmented which would degrade performance as well.
Hope somethig of this helps, and sorry for repeating my previous post a bunch.
I don't see how the disc is fragmented, considering this is a brand new machine, g4 and all. (gets people stopping in the hallways I tell you!)
But the bad memory thing still seems plausible. rrabu, what do you mean by "crashing" -that I get the whole system crashing or just an app? I do have some strange behavior in office. Names that entourage crashes and quits if i just type a letter "f" without quickly typing a second letter. I have also seen some strange things with forwarded mail, where only parts actually get sent to my recipient.
Could that be a sign of a bad module?
<strong>
I do have some strange behavior in office. Names that entourage crashes and quits if i just type a letter "f" without quickly typing a second letter.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please note this only happens when I am filling in the "send to:" when addressing an email. Entourage does an active search to find all address book entires that start with "f" so could this be stored in ram when i boot up? Bad ram could explain this.
<strong>Thanks everyone for their help. I will try taking out the memory in the next couple of days.
I don't see how the disc is fragmented, considering this is a brand new machine, g4 and all. (gets people stopping in the hallways I tell you!)
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
That's true. And you haven't had it that long either so I doubt that it would be due to cleanup being required. To be safe, you could go into the terminal and run the cleanup scripts (don't have to if you leave the computer on all the time). To run them, start Terminal and type
sudo sh /etc/daily
sudo sh /etc/weekly
sudo sh /etc/monthly
It will ask for your password. Shouldn't make a difference really, but doesn't hurt anything either. This just cleans up old log files and such.
[quote]Originally posted by jobagangles:
<strong>But the bad memory thing still seems plausible. rrabu, what do you mean by "crashing" -that I get the whole system crashing or just an app? I do have some strange behavior in office. Names that entourage crashes and quits if i just type a letter "f" without quickly typing a second letter. I have also seen some strange things with forwarded mail, where only parts actually get sent to my recipient.
Could that be a sign of a bad module?</strong><hr></blockquote>
This type of behavior certainly seems like signs of a bad module. It could also be bad software although if nobody else has reported this type of thing with office, I would think there is something abnormal happening with your iMac. You could try 2 things:
1. pull the memory and see if things run better after that (less quirky behavior and possibly faster).
2. Backup, format the drive and do a fresh install. If any installer has ever crashed on you before that might have messed stuff up in the system. I've had that problem once when I updated the system on my iBook and the installer crashed. It then wouldn't sleep properly.
I have noticed though that consumer macs can be a bit slow compared with pro models - for example, my Powerbook G3 266 is only marginally slower (perceptually speaking) than my RAM-stuffed iMac. If anyone could tell me why, that'd be cool
Do you think that the entourage quirkiness is really due to a bad module? I would think that a bad module would cause overall system instability and not a problem with a particular application. I still think that the ram should be pulled before doing anything like reinstalling software or anything drastic like that.
The application behavior would be caused by either the application or system in my opinion. A fresh install wouldn't be a bad idea. I've never used a factory install. Always only trusted my own.
To check for hardware problems, he could use the diagnostic CD provided by Apple that came with his iMac. It will check the RAM. I should have thought of this one earlier. I highly suggest doing this before opening the iMac to pull the RAM.
He could also try mounting several large disk images. The checksum validation should fail (at least sometimes) if the RAM is bad although the diagnostic CD should be a better test.
So I bit the bullet (or the old 256 chip) and bought a 512 to bring the whole up to 768 megs. Wow, that really made a big difference. Now the system really flies and is clearly faster than my g4/500 at home.
FFWIW, I called microsoft on the entourage problem and they were mystified. Finally, they had me create a new user and access entourage from there, it didn't crash, but now I don't have any of my old emails or settings. Strange that I can't automatically import the old settings without replacing my user file.
Anyway, thanks again! I am finally glad I made the switch from PC to Mac at work. My co-workers are jealous and now asking our MIS when they can get Macs to replace their desktop PC boxes...