Intel Macs don't exist. Nobody knows how close the DTK is, architecture-wise, to anything that will actually ship to users.
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and Phil Schiller has said that Apple won't actively try to block installations of Windows on their machines. I mean, why would they? It's just another perk of buying a Mac, and might push some PC buyers to get a Mac.
They probably won't, no. But maybe there will be very practical reasons, such as a slightly atypical architecture (e.g. EFI).
Yes, the dev kits, which are minimally changed stock x86 boxes - you'd *expect* them to be able to boot Windows, wouldn't you?
The dev kits ARE NOT the final shipping product, and no one, including me or you, has any clue what that final product is going to be like.
ie, speculation.
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and Phil Schiller has said that Apple won't actively try to block installations of Windows on their machines. I mean, why would they? It's just another perk of buying a Mac, and might push some PC buyers to get a Mac.
Logical error.
Sony doesn't actively block running Windows on their CD players either... that doesn't mean that you *can*.
"We will not actively prevent Windows from running" != "You will be able to run Windows"
What if the hardware includes pieces not currently supported by Windows drivers? Apple won't write them, but they won't prevent MS from doing so... if they choose to.
ie, no guarantee.
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That said, it likely won't be an extremely user-friendly process to install both, but I was able to install OS X and Windows on an unsupported PC without a UI, so no doubt visa-versa will be even easier on a Mac.
That assumes a lot about how close the shipping Intel Macs will be to standard x86 hardware now.
You *MIGHT* be able to boot Windows directly on the machines, and you *MIGHT NOT*.
ie, speculation, with no guarantees.
Speculation does not mean "you won't", it simply means "we don't know for sure". Chances are indeed fairly good that you will be able to dual-boot into Windows if you really want to, depending on how different the HW is, what drivers are needed, who ponies up the support for those drivers, etc, etc, etc. I suspect that eventually, you'll be able to boot into Windows if for no other reason than hackers like a challenge.
That does *not* mean that you'll be able to buy an Intel Mac, and a copy of Vista, and have it work out of the box. Maybe, maybe not. Speculation.
..it's hard to imagine people restarting their computer to use an app or play a game on the other OS. You'd have to save all your work...and close whatever websites you were browsing, whatever conversations you were having on iChat, whatever tune you were playing in iTunes.
I do it all the time. I reboot from OS X into OS 9 to play Warcraft 2. But you have a very good point, one I hadn't considered before. I can't see myself rebooting from OS X into Windows as that would lock me out of OS X. I had actually considered it, but the only program I would be using in Windows is AutoCAD. That would be a pain indeed as my work and preferred apps are in OS X. When I'm playing Warcraft that is all that I'm doing so it works just fine, but this scenario isn't the same when you are working. Sooner or later you will need to e-mail, go to a web site, play music and what not. I certainly don't want to be doing any of this in Windows meaning I would have to be constantly rebooting. OK, never mind. Get a low cost PC if you have apps that you MUST use in Windows.
when you say "dual booting" do you mean have both os's running at the same time. i would do that with classic and os 10 simply switch back and forth or have two windows open (split screen) if that's the case that's what i want with windows. for work i use just one windows program w/IE that way i could do everything else in os x just switch views--seemless, on those weeks i don't need the windows program i'd just wouldn't boot it up with os x. my default would be osx then add windows when needed. this way i could get that pb i've always wanted. hopefully it comes with dual core, compact high density HD and dvd burner.
when you say "dual booting" do you mean have both os's running at the same time. i would do that with classic and os 10 simply switch back and forth or have two windows open (split screen) if that's the case that's what i want with windows. for work i use just one windows program w/IE that way i could do everything else in os x just switch views--seemless, on those weeks i don't need the windows program i'd just wouldn't boot it up with os x. my default would be osx then add windows when needed. this way i could get that pb i've always wanted. hopefully it comes with dual core, compact high density HD and dvd burner.
Well you'll definitely get a DVD burner, they're already standard across the entire PowerBook line.
Well you'll definitely get a DVD burner, they're already standard across the entire PowerBook line.
i'm looking forward to one, see i could upgrade my dell but hey i'd just have a dell. my wife won't let me upgrade her ibook g4... i don't have dvd burning capabilities in my home...yet. i really haven't had a need till recently. i might consider a stand alone unit for my upstairs g3 but put that money into the pb when they come out.....yum yum
when you say "dual booting" do you mean have both os's running at the same time.
No. Dual booting (in general use) means booting into one of two (or more) OSs, exclusively. So you would boot into MacOS X *or* Windows, and it would be the only OS running.
What you want, and what we have with Classic in MacOS X, is more akin to layered OSs - one is being run as a process on top of another OS. Generally, this is done through use of an emulator, such as VirtualPC, or by hosting another OS of the same native architecture directly, as with Classic.
I'm hoping that we'll get, if not a WINE-esque solution where Windows apps are run on OS X, and never need to have Windows the OS booted, then at least a much better and faster VirtualPC environment since the instruction sets will be compatible.
i just want ease of use, so i can get rid of my dell. but i want to seemlessly switch back and forth so i can only use the windows for the short intermitant times i need to and be primarily on mac os x. the windows program i use is layered on IE for getting images sent from the hospital (images of ct scans use IE with an imaging software) so basically i only use windows for IE and realtimeimage software oh yea the hospital requires a windows base cisco vpn to connect to their server.
I just want to get out of the dell-windows connection....please i want the pb or maybe ibook to be powerful enough to do idvd, be competitive for a few years, so i don't have to upgrade before the applecare quits.
Dual-booting will be simple. Setting up my Asus W3v for dual-booting linux and XP is so simple, and I'm sure it'll be the same way on the Mac. Why are people saying it's hard to install Windows? It's just as easy as installing the MacOS it just doesn't look as nice.
I for one will be dual-booting my Intel Powerbook because I hate macromedia apps on the mac and will need to run them in Windows. The rest I will be doing on the Mac side...then browser testing on both platforms...
I don't see why everybody thinks that the Intel Macs will have some special Intel chipset that is magically incompatible with Windows despite the fact that it's x86 and standards-compliant.
Dual-booting will be simple. Setting up my Asus W3v for dual-booting linux and XP is so simple, and I'm sure it'll be the same way on the Mac. Why are people saying it's hard to install Windows? It's just as easy as installing the MacOS it just doesn't look as nice.
I for one will be dual-booting my Intel Powerbook because I hate macromedia apps on the mac and will need to run them in Windows. The rest I will be doing on the Mac side...then browser testing on both platforms...
now that's what i want to do...simple and easy to switch back and forth.
I was thinking about whether to compliment my 3-year old iBook with one of those super-cheap PC laptops currently on sale for the holiday season or wait until January and buy a new Mactel iBook, and kill two birds with one stone: replace my aging iBook, and by the same token get a henceforth Windows-capable computer.
If you buy a cuper-cheap PC laptop it'll break in a few months and you'll whining about how PCs suck and Macs are the best.
If you want to buy a PC, get either Fujitsu, Panasonic, Sony, or Toshiba. Then who knows, you may forget about the Mac.
As far running Windows on Mactels, you will be able to, no doubt. However, whether it will be plug-n-play or a hack job, nobody can you right now.
Anyone thought about the supprise purchase of Virtual PC by Microsoft a few years ago? With Microsoft now owning the code, and being a large Mac developer, I'm sure that MS has a good idea about the specifics of any final Mactel - anyone else thought about this?
Anyone thought about the supprise purchase of Virtual PC by Microsoft a few years ago? With Microsoft now owning the code, and being a large Mac developer, I'm sure that MS has a good idea about the specifics of any final Mactel - anyone else thought about this?
Microsoft is the last one that wants more people using Mac OS X.
It wasn't a surprise. Microsoft bought it for the virtualisation technology.
And (apparently) to help run XBox games on the XBox360.
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Microsoft is the last one that wants more people using Mac OS X.
Microsoft doesn't sell PCs so I doubt they care whether you are running Windows on a Mac, or on a PC. More to the point, if they can sell to the Mac market then they've increased their market share. Plus this would seem to motivate 3rd party developers to focus entirely on their Windows product development, which is the MS' advantage.
Microsoft doesn't sell PCs so I doubt they care whether you are running Windows on a Mac, or on a PC. More to the point, if they can sell to the Mac market then they've increased their market share. Plus this would seem to motivate 3rd party developers to focus entirely on their Windows product development, which is the MS' advantage.
True, but on the other side, Microsoft making it easy to use Windows on a Mac encourages PC users to switch to a Mac since most do want to switch. Does Microsoft really want to encourage PC to use Mac OS X?
True, but on the other side, Microsoft making it easy to use Windows on a Mac encourages PC users to switch to a Mac since most do want to switch. Does Microsoft really want to encourage PC to use Mac OS X?
Well somebody is going to provide a VM, Microsoft may as well make the money (that being their perspective, not mine).
Comments
Originally posted by Placebo
No, sorry, Windows has been booted on Intel Macs
Intel Macs don't exist. Nobody knows how close the DTK is, architecture-wise, to anything that will actually ship to users.
and Phil Schiller has said that Apple won't actively try to block installations of Windows on their machines. I mean, why would they? It's just another perk of buying a Mac, and might push some PC buyers to get a Mac.
They probably won't, no. But maybe there will be very practical reasons, such as a slightly atypical architecture (e.g. EFI).
Originally posted by Placebo
No, sorry, Windows has been booted on Intel Macs
Yes, the dev kits, which are minimally changed stock x86 boxes - you'd *expect* them to be able to boot Windows, wouldn't you?
The dev kits ARE NOT the final shipping product, and no one, including me or you, has any clue what that final product is going to be like.
ie, speculation.
and Phil Schiller has said that Apple won't actively try to block installations of Windows on their machines. I mean, why would they? It's just another perk of buying a Mac, and might push some PC buyers to get a Mac.
Logical error.
Sony doesn't actively block running Windows on their CD players either... that doesn't mean that you *can*.
"We will not actively prevent Windows from running" != "You will be able to run Windows"
What if the hardware includes pieces not currently supported by Windows drivers? Apple won't write them, but they won't prevent MS from doing so... if they choose to.
ie, no guarantee.
That said, it likely won't be an extremely user-friendly process to install both, but I was able to install OS X and Windows on an unsupported PC without a UI, so no doubt visa-versa will be even easier on a Mac.
That assumes a lot about how close the shipping Intel Macs will be to standard x86 hardware now.
You *MIGHT* be able to boot Windows directly on the machines, and you *MIGHT NOT*.
ie, speculation, with no guarantees.
Speculation does not mean "you won't", it simply means "we don't know for sure". Chances are indeed fairly good that you will be able to dual-boot into Windows if you really want to, depending on how different the HW is, what drivers are needed, who ponies up the support for those drivers, etc, etc, etc. I suspect that eventually, you'll be able to boot into Windows if for no other reason than hackers like a challenge.
That does *not* mean that you'll be able to buy an Intel Mac, and a copy of Vista, and have it work out of the box. Maybe, maybe not. Speculation.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
..it's hard to imagine people restarting their computer to use an app or play a game on the other OS. You'd have to save all your work...and close whatever websites you were browsing, whatever conversations you were having on iChat, whatever tune you were playing in iTunes.
I do it all the time. I reboot from OS X into OS 9 to play Warcraft 2. But you have a very good point, one I hadn't considered before. I can't see myself rebooting from OS X into Windows as that would lock me out of OS X. I had actually considered it, but the only program I would be using in Windows is AutoCAD. That would be a pain indeed as my work and preferred apps are in OS X. When I'm playing Warcraft that is all that I'm doing so it works just fine, but this scenario isn't the same when you are working. Sooner or later you will need to e-mail, go to a web site, play music and what not. I certainly don't want to be doing any of this in Windows meaning I would have to be constantly rebooting. OK, never mind. Get a low cost PC if you have apps that you MUST use in Windows.
Originally posted by NOFEER
when you say "dual booting" do you mean have both os's running at the same time. i would do that with classic and os 10 simply switch back and forth or have two windows open (split screen) if that's the case that's what i want with windows. for work i use just one windows program w/IE that way i could do everything else in os x just switch views--seemless, on those weeks i don't need the windows program i'd just wouldn't boot it up with os x. my default would be osx then add windows when needed. this way i could get that pb i've always wanted. hopefully it comes with dual core, compact high density HD and dvd burner.
Well you'll definitely get a DVD burner, they're already standard across the entire PowerBook line.
Originally posted by speed_the_collapse
Well you'll definitely get a DVD burner, they're already standard across the entire PowerBook line.
i'm looking forward to one, see i could upgrade my dell but hey i'd just have a dell. my wife won't let me upgrade her ibook g4... i don't have dvd burning capabilities in my home...yet. i really haven't had a need till recently. i might consider a stand alone unit for my upstairs g3 but put that money into the pb when they come out.....yum yum
Originally posted by NOFEER
when you say "dual booting" do you mean have both os's running at the same time.
No. Dual booting (in general use) means booting into one of two (or more) OSs, exclusively. So you would boot into MacOS X *or* Windows, and it would be the only OS running.
What you want, and what we have with Classic in MacOS X, is more akin to layered OSs - one is being run as a process on top of another OS. Generally, this is done through use of an emulator, such as VirtualPC, or by hosting another OS of the same native architecture directly, as with Classic.
I'm hoping that we'll get, if not a WINE-esque solution where Windows apps are run on OS X, and never need to have Windows the OS booted, then at least a much better and faster VirtualPC environment since the instruction sets will be compatible.
I just want to get out of the dell-windows connection....please
Dual-booting will be simple. Setting up my Asus W3v for dual-booting linux and XP is so simple, and I'm sure it'll be the same way on the Mac. Why are people saying it's hard to install Windows? It's just as easy as installing the MacOS it just doesn't look as nice.
I for one will be dual-booting my Intel Powerbook because I hate macromedia apps on the mac and will need to run them in Windows. The rest I will be doing on the Mac side...then browser testing on both platforms...
Originally posted by Jay Contonio
Umm...
Dual-booting will be simple. Setting up my Asus W3v for dual-booting linux and XP is so simple, and I'm sure it'll be the same way on the Mac. Why are people saying it's hard to install Windows? It's just as easy as installing the MacOS it just doesn't look as nice.
I for one will be dual-booting my Intel Powerbook because I hate macromedia apps on the mac and will need to run them in Windows. The rest I will be doing on the Mac side...then browser testing on both platforms...
now that's what i want to do...simple and easy to switch back and forth.
thanks
I was thinking about whether to compliment my 3-year old iBook with one of those super-cheap PC laptops currently on sale for the holiday season or wait until January and buy a new Mactel iBook, and kill two birds with one stone: replace my aging iBook, and by the same token get a henceforth Windows-capable computer.
If you buy a cuper-cheap PC laptop it'll break in a few months and you'll whining about how PCs suck and Macs are the best.
If you want to buy a PC, get either Fujitsu, Panasonic, Sony, or Toshiba. Then who knows, you may forget about the Mac.
As far running Windows on Mactels, you will be able to, no doubt. However, whether it will be plug-n-play or a hack job, nobody can you right now.
Originally posted by dhunter
Anyone thought about the supprise purchase of Virtual PC by Microsoft a few years ago? With Microsoft now owning the code, and being a large Mac developer, I'm sure that MS has a good idea about the specifics of any final Mactel - anyone else thought about this?
Microsoft is the last one that wants more people using Mac OS X.
Originally posted by dhunter
Anyone thought about the supprise purchase of Virtual PC by Microsoft a few years ago?
It wasn't a surprise. Microsoft bought it for the virtualisation technology.
Originally posted by Telomar
It wasn't a surprise. Microsoft bought it for the virtualisation technology.
And (apparently) to help run XBox games on the XBox360.
Microsoft is the last one that wants more people using Mac OS X.
Microsoft doesn't sell PCs so I doubt they care whether you are running Windows on a Mac, or on a PC. More to the point, if they can sell to the Mac market then they've increased their market share. Plus this would seem to motivate 3rd party developers to focus entirely on their Windows product development, which is the MS' advantage.
Originally posted by Programmer
Microsoft doesn't sell PCs so I doubt they care whether you are running Windows on a Mac, or on a PC. More to the point, if they can sell to the Mac market then they've increased their market share. Plus this would seem to motivate 3rd party developers to focus entirely on their Windows product development, which is the MS' advantage.
True, but on the other side, Microsoft making it easy to use Windows on a Mac encourages PC users to switch to a Mac since most do want to switch. Does Microsoft really want to encourage PC to use Mac OS X?
Originally posted by iPeon
True, but on the other side, Microsoft making it easy to use Windows on a Mac encourages PC users to switch to a Mac since most do want to switch. Does Microsoft really want to encourage PC to use Mac OS X?
Well somebody is going to provide a VM, Microsoft may as well make the money (that being their perspective, not mine).
Originally posted by Programmer
Well somebody is going to provide a VM, Microsoft may as well make the money (that being their perspective, not mine).
Heh! Indeed. I do hope somebody else makes it. Knowing how Microsoft operates they are bound to make a mess of it.