Just return the old machine now! When you get the new one, please don't complain when it's upgraded to a Core Duo 2.0 in 3 months.
iLife '07 will be out in January 2007, by the way.
Don't pull a Straw Man with me.
I realize things get upgraded all the time. But this is a huge, next generation upgrade. Even if it went intel and had a little better performance, I'd be fine. 2-3X with a better graphics card though....all for the same price? No.
iMac was in production for 3 months. The last upgrade was substantial. Now, 90 days later, we have a machine with a 2-3X performance upgrade, a next generation architecture (capable of running software written years from now), a bette graphics card, etc?
No, no and no. No reasonable person would have predicted this. Apple just devalued my brand new machine by at least $400. [/B]
So let me get this straight, your pissed because the rumor mill wasn't convincing enough for you delay your purchase for 20 or so days and that is Apple's fault that they didn't leak the info so little old you wouldn't buy their product. I don't think you are stupid, But do I think your acting immature. YOU made the purchase, YOU read the rumors, and YOU have been around these boards been long enough to know how Apple works. So you bought at the wrong time, take responisibility for your actions. No one held a gun to your head. If you are looking for pity, you are not going to find it here. If the G5 is such a POS then why did you buy it in the first place? If it meets your needs then what are you pissing and moaning about? If you bought in may, would you be having this hissy fit? How about August? November? When is it okay for a company to update a product? Should Steve Jobs contact you by phone or email before he releases an upgrade?
I realize things get upgraded all the time. But this is a huge, next generation upgrade. Even if it went intel and had a little better performance, I'd be fine. 2-3X with a better graphics card though....all for the same price? No.
Just return the damned thing ...
... or change the thread title to 'I am infuriating!'.
I grant you that. It is the only thing stopping me from pulling the trigger on a new one right now.
Yeah I'd make sure before you do the exchange. The transition is going to be a bit bumpy, there's no doubt about that. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but it would be best if you could wait for some reviews to come in, if you have enough time. I bet next week some decent iMac reviews will start to appear. I got my G5 iMac only a month or so before you, and I'm definitely keeping it rather than going to eBay.
No one predicted this. Apple completely lied about the mid-2006 date to move product. I saw NO rumors of a new iMac. I would have waited a lousy three weeks to upgrade had I had any clue.
Amazon will give me an 80% refund. They said I'm likely to keep the mail-in rebate. All in all, a new one will probably cost $100 when everything is said and done.
I have an irrational fear of REV A machines. I bought one of the B&W G3s - Rev A..400MHz with SCSI card back in April '99 I think it was.
Anyhow, when I plugged a FW HD into it (this was the first time FW was included in Macs) smoke poured out of the G3. The FW card had caught fire.
On another note, Apple refused to acknowledge this. I ended up having to buy a 3rd party FW card for my FW-equipped Mac in order to use FW at all.
So...Keep REV A machines far away from me. This is good advice.
Everyone has this fear because of THOSE MACHINES. Quite frankly I've never had a problem with Rev A machines. I had a titanium 400 pb... a performa 600, a powermac 6100, a umax s900 (not apple), a 400mhz cube, a 233mhz iMac, a dual 2.0 g5..... not one of them broke *shrugs*
He bought an iMac... um... they were last updated in October! A 3 month rev cycle? That is unheard of from apple.
But in apple's defense... they did tell you they were moving to intel cpus... you should have waited... period. Now is like the worst time (even in october) to buy a ppc mac.
Count your blessings you can still upgrade without a big hit.
I bought a 20" iMac in November. Old PC died so didn't have an option. I am not too worried about an Intel iMac being released so quickly as long as software for my iMac remains fully available and is updated at the same time as that for Intel based iMacs.
Frankly I am more niggled that iLife06 will cost me, the improved Slideshow system in iMovie is what I want!
So far my iMac has been faster than me for what I do - iMovie, iPhoto, Safari, MS Office apps, video rendering takes a while but as you can work on other things at the same time it is no big deal. 2X faster rendering would be a nice have but not enough to get upset over (that is if rendering is truly 2X faster?). I can't say I am waiting anytime for the computer when I am working on iMovie or iPhoto - not like I did with a PC.
I am not a real "gamer" so I guess I don't really stretch the iMac processor and although a faster intel processor would have been nice - we all like to have the newest and best for vanity!! - I doubt it would make any noticeable difference to me in the real world.
I guess the question is whether you consider the iMac to be a tool to get things done or an end in itself?
Apple has a history of marketing bullshit numbers, as evidenced by the tests at Barefeats.com and many other venues. I wouldn't be surprised if these numbers are also extremely massaged given the benchmark data I've seen for the PPC970 and the Yonah.
Although I see your point, we just cannot ignore the fact that the new iMac is a dual core machine with a GPU capable to decode MPEG and H.264.
Quote:
Rosetta is probably >10x slow-down, so go figure.
You are kidding, right?
Quote:
Don't get me wrong: I think the new Intel macs are really cool, but I can't think of a great reason to get one other than being the first kid on the block to have one. I'll probably get a MacBook in Mid-2007 when the software I need is out for Intel and when Intel gets up FPU performance to match Altivec.
This makes perfect sense. Personally I would not buy at this moment one of the new iMacs just because of lack of native software (apart Apple's of cousre). But on the other hand, buying such a machine even now (so early), is a long term investement since these machines will be supported by Apple for a very long time and will remain quite powerful thanks to the second processor.
Seriously, this is the first time I hear something like that for 1st generation machines. Three years ago I bought a Powerbook (first generation in its time) and I had zero issues with it. But I agree, if once you get burned badly, you avoid 1st generation computers like hell.
2X faster rendering would be a nice have but not enough to get upset over (that is if rendering is truly 2X faster?).
If we talk about iMovie, then I think only one processor is used. So don't expect to notice any difference between the old G5 and the new Intel iMacs, each one running its native version of iMovie.
Anyone saying that an iMac was in the cards are not truthful (no. private "well my cat told me" or "I just FEEL a new iMac is coming" doesn´t count). Yes AI predicted it and even if we have a much better track record than most out there it was month ago, it wasn´t followed up AND you could find a rumour about every major Apple product that hinted an Intel update at MWSF if you just look for it. Besides see here for reference: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=60021 The iMac is not even there and noone asked for it to be added on the list!
That said: Noone will ever be 100% sure something new isn´t released. You rented an iMac for 100 dollars. I would have bought the G5 iMac at the time you did if I knew I could get such a deal.
And performance-wise it will never be twice as fast as the old one. Simply not doable. Even sjobs said that on the stage.
I wouldn't be too worried. I sold my 2.0 17" w/superdrive (the model before the iSight ones) on ebay this past week for $1075. Most people on ebay aren't paying attention to what's going on (they could've bought the same computer at Compusa for $900). You'll recoup almost all of your money.
Not true, I knew, and said so. OK, not specifically about iMacs, but about any PPC mac in '06. I recall counciling people, and getting criticised for it, here and elsewhere, that unless they needed a new mac for work, it was best to wait for Intel versions.
And though modesty precludes me celebrating the fact too much, I was, of course, right.
These Intel macs will fly on Apple's first party wares. And Apple has set a good precedent by getting them out early, and providing a cheap upgrade path to dual binary versions.
On Rosetta speed. It's going to be fine -- for Office. However, when the Steveness himself quotes that a pro wouldn't want to be using photoshop under Rosetta, you know it's not great for advanced content creation.
Ironically, you may be better off dual booting into a Windows version of CS2 -- it's likely to be very possible, and very functional. Hopefully, Apple's own transition program will set the bar for top tier devs like Adobe to offer something similar, and we'll all be in native dual binary apps by the end of '06 at the very latest.
I don't see why not. Converting a big endian RISC instruction set into a very different instruction set: I'd guess it takes about 10 instructions to handle each 1 PPC instruction. It's also a very single threaded task. It's possible that they implemented a lookahead buffer in a second thread, but that's not going to really speed that much up aside from perhaps giving you a better JIT compilation.
If I said >5x would you still argue? Don't forget that if there's Altivec code in there, It's probably on the order of >40x. Maybe even >80x given that G5s have dual Altivec cores per cpu core.
Everyone has this fear because of THOSE MACHINES. Quite frankly I've never had a problem with Rev A machines. I had a titanium 400 pb... a performa 600, a powermac 6100, a umax s900 (not apple), a 400mhz cube, a 233mhz iMac, a dual 2.0 g5..... not one of them broke *shrugs*
I think you're right. I had also bought a PowerMac 7100AV, pretty much the same day they were released. That machine was a rock!
Regarding your other comment about buying PPC computers, I just got a Quad G5, and am really glad I did. Yes I know the Intel Pro line will be released by year's end, but I wanted a machine that can run all the apps I *already* have as fast as possible for as long as possible. There might even be another REV of these prior to the Intel pro line release as well, but this thing smokes.
Personally, until I know more about realistic Rosetta speeds (plus with my case of the usual REV A jitters) I'll hold off on the Intel line. The software selection is currently rather scant. I bought a PB last August, and I was seriously thinking of eBaying it this week after seeing the new ones, but then I did a quick tally on the apps I use on my PB NOW, and less than 5% of those currently have universal binary/mactel versions available. I'm holding off for now..
Comments
Originally posted by audiopollution
Aaargh.
Just return the old machine now! When you get the new one, please don't complain when it's upgraded to a Core Duo 2.0 in 3 months.
iLife '07 will be out in January 2007, by the way.
Don't pull a Straw Man with me.
I realize things get upgraded all the time. But this is a huge, next generation upgrade. Even if it went intel and had a little better performance, I'd be fine. 2-3X with a better graphics card though....all for the same price? No.
iMac was in production for 3 months. The last upgrade was substantial. Now, 90 days later, we have a machine with a 2-3X performance upgrade, a next generation architecture (capable of running software written years from now), a bette graphics card, etc?
No, no and no. No reasonable person would have predicted this. Apple just devalued my brand new machine by at least $400. [/B]
So let me get this straight, your pissed because the rumor mill wasn't convincing enough for you delay your purchase for 20 or so days and that is Apple's fault that they didn't leak the info so little old you wouldn't buy their product. I don't think you are stupid, But do I think your acting immature. YOU made the purchase, YOU read the rumors, and YOU have been around these boards been long enough to know how Apple works. So you bought at the wrong time, take responisibility for your actions. No one held a gun to your head. If you are looking for pity, you are not going to find it here. If the G5 is such a POS then why did you buy it in the first place? If it meets your needs then what are you pissing and moaning about? If you bought in may, would you be having this hissy fit? How about August? November? When is it okay for a company to update a product? Should Steve Jobs contact you by phone or email before he releases an upgrade?
Originally posted by SDW2001
Don't pull a Straw Man with me.
I realize things get upgraded all the time. But this is a huge, next generation upgrade. Even if it went intel and had a little better performance, I'd be fine. 2-3X with a better graphics card though....all for the same price? No.
Just return the damned thing ...
... or change the thread title to 'I am infuriating!'.
Originally posted by audiopollution
Just return the damned thing ...
... or change the thread title to 'I am infuriating!'.
LOL!
Originally posted by SDW2001
I grant you that. It is the only thing stopping me from pulling the trigger on a new one right now.
Yeah I'd make sure before you do the exchange. The transition is going to be a bit bumpy, there's no doubt about that. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but it would be best if you could wait for some reviews to come in, if you have enough time. I bet next week some decent iMac reviews will start to appear. I got my G5 iMac only a month or so before you, and I'm definitely keeping it rather than going to eBay.
Anyhow, when I plugged a FW HD into it (this was the first time FW was included in Macs) smoke poured out of the G3. The FW card had caught fire.
On another note, Apple refused to acknowledge this. I ended up having to buy a 3rd party FW card for my FW-equipped Mac in order to use FW at all.
So...Keep REV A machines far away from me. This is good advice.
Originally posted by SDW2001
No one predicted this. Apple completely lied about the mid-2006 date to move product. I saw NO rumors of a new iMac. I would have waited a lousy three weeks to upgrade had I had any clue.
Amazon will give me an 80% refund. They said I'm likely to keep the mail-in rebate. All in all, a new one will probably cost $100 when everything is said and done.
Sounds worth it to me
Originally posted by auslander
I have an irrational fear of REV A machines. I bought one of the B&W G3s - Rev A..400MHz with SCSI card back in April '99 I think it was.
Anyhow, when I plugged a FW HD into it (this was the first time FW was included in Macs) smoke poured out of the G3. The FW card had caught fire.
On another note, Apple refused to acknowledge this. I ended up having to buy a 3rd party FW card for my FW-equipped Mac in order to use FW at all.
So...Keep REV A machines far away from me. This is good advice.
Everyone has this fear because of THOSE MACHINES. Quite frankly I've never had a problem with Rev A machines. I had a titanium 400 pb... a performa 600, a powermac 6100, a umax s900 (not apple), a 400mhz cube, a 233mhz iMac, a dual 2.0 g5..... not one of them broke *shrugs*
He bought an iMac... um... they were last updated in October! A 3 month rev cycle? That is unheard of from apple.
But in apple's defense... they did tell you they were moving to intel cpus... you should have waited... period. Now is like the worst time (even in october) to buy a ppc mac.
Count your blessings you can still upgrade without a big hit.
Frankly I am more niggled that iLife06 will cost me, the improved Slideshow system in iMovie is what I want!
So far my iMac has been faster than me for what I do - iMovie, iPhoto, Safari, MS Office apps, video rendering takes a while but as you can work on other things at the same time it is no big deal. 2X faster rendering would be a nice have but not enough to get upset over (that is if rendering is truly 2X faster?). I can't say I am waiting anytime for the computer when I am working on iMovie or iPhoto - not like I did with a PC.
I am not a real "gamer" so I guess I don't really stretch the iMac processor and although a faster intel processor would have been nice - we all like to have the newest and best for vanity!! - I doubt it would make any noticeable difference to me in the real world.
I guess the question is whether you consider the iMac to be a tool to get things done or an end in itself?
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Apple has a history of marketing bullshit numbers, as evidenced by the tests at Barefeats.com and many other venues. I wouldn't be surprised if these numbers are also extremely massaged given the benchmark data I've seen for the PPC970 and the Yonah.
Although I see your point, we just cannot ignore the fact that the new iMac is a dual core machine with a GPU capable to decode MPEG and H.264.
Rosetta is probably >10x slow-down, so go figure.
You are kidding, right?
Don't get me wrong: I think the new Intel macs are really cool, but I can't think of a great reason to get one other than being the first kid on the block to have one. I'll probably get a MacBook in Mid-2007 when the software I need is out for Intel and when Intel gets up FPU performance to match Altivec.
This makes perfect sense. Personally I would not buy at this moment one of the new iMacs just because of lack of native software (apart Apple's of cousre). But on the other hand, buying such a machine even now (so early), is a long term investement since these machines will be supported by Apple for a very long time and will remain quite powerful thanks to the second processor.
THey should never allowed to have released a more powerful machine just so they could have made SDW2001 happy.
Bad Apple. BAD!
Originally posted by auslander
The FW card had caught fire.
Worthy of its name!
Seriously, this is the first time I hear something like that for 1st generation machines. Three years ago I bought a Powerbook (first generation in its time) and I had zero issues with it. But I agree, if once you get burned badly, you avoid 1st generation computers like hell.
Originally posted by RickT
2X faster rendering would be a nice have but not enough to get upset over (that is if rendering is truly 2X faster?).
If we talk about iMovie, then I think only one processor is used. So don't expect to notice any difference between the old G5 and the new Intel iMacs, each one running its native version of iMovie.
Anyone saying that an iMac was in the cards are not truthful (no. private "well my cat told me" or "I just FEEL a new iMac is coming" doesn´t count). Yes AI predicted it and even if we have a much better track record than most out there it was month ago, it wasn´t followed up AND you could find a rumour about every major Apple product that hinted an Intel update at MWSF if you just look for it. Besides see here for reference: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=60021 The iMac is not even there and noone asked for it to be added on the list!
That said: Noone will ever be 100% sure something new isn´t released. You rented an iMac for 100 dollars. I would have bought the G5 iMac at the time you did if I knew I could get such a deal.
And performance-wise it will never be twice as fast as the old one. Simply not doable. Even sjobs said that on the stage.
And though modesty precludes me celebrating the fact too much, I was, of course, right.
These Intel macs will fly on Apple's first party wares. And Apple has set a good precedent by getting them out early, and providing a cheap upgrade path to dual binary versions.
On Rosetta speed. It's going to be fine -- for Office. However, when the Steveness himself quotes that a pro wouldn't want to be using photoshop under Rosetta, you know it's not great for advanced content creation.
Ironically, you may be better off dual booting into a Windows version of CS2 -- it's likely to be very possible, and very functional. Hopefully, Apple's own transition program will set the bar for top tier devs like Adobe to offer something similar, and we'll all be in native dual binary apps by the end of '06 at the very latest.
Originally posted by PB
Spline: Rosetta should incur a >10x speed penalty
You are kidding, right?
I don't see why not. Converting a big endian RISC instruction set into a very different instruction set: I'd guess it takes about 10 instructions to handle each 1 PPC instruction. It's also a very single threaded task. It's possible that they implemented a lookahead buffer in a second thread, but that's not going to really speed that much up aside from perhaps giving you a better JIT compilation.
If I said >5x would you still argue? Don't forget that if there's Altivec code in there, It's probably on the order of >40x. Maybe even >80x given that G5s have dual Altivec cores per cpu core.
Originally posted by emig647
Everyone has this fear because of THOSE MACHINES. Quite frankly I've never had a problem with Rev A machines. I had a titanium 400 pb... a performa 600, a powermac 6100, a umax s900 (not apple), a 400mhz cube, a 233mhz iMac, a dual 2.0 g5..... not one of them broke *shrugs*
I think you're right. I had also bought a PowerMac 7100AV, pretty much the same day they were released. That machine was a rock!
Regarding your other comment about buying PPC computers, I just got a Quad G5, and am really glad I did. Yes I know the Intel Pro line will be released by year's end, but I wanted a machine that can run all the apps I *already* have as fast as possible for as long as possible. There might even be another REV of these prior to the Intel pro line release as well, but this thing smokes.
Personally, until I know more about realistic Rosetta speeds (plus with my case of the usual REV A jitters) I'll hold off on the Intel line. The software selection is currently rather scant. I bought a PB last August, and I was seriously thinking of eBaying it this week after seeing the new ones, but then I did a quick tally on the apps I use on my PB NOW, and less than 5% of those currently have universal binary/mactel versions available. I'm holding off for now..