I think the eMac proves that Apple doesn't have a single MBA in the executive suite
I honestly cannot figure out what Apple is trying to do with it's consumer products.
To wit: The Cube, The iPod, the new iMac, and now the eMac.
The Cube was the best idea in a while over at Cupertino. It was a consumer machine, with just enough expandability to meet the demand of consumer users. Furthermore, it was cool, exciting, small, and looked damn good on a desk.
Of course, Apple shot themselves with the $1700 price tag.
Then the iPod. A brilliant use of emerging small drives to make the ultimate mp3 player.
Apple then releases it only to Mac users, depriving themselves of 95-97% of the market.
Then the new iMac. It looks like they have a winner: a machine so out of the ordinary, so cool, that even the crusties Windows user wants one. They even manage to get the price to something reasonable. However, despite the mobile screen (very cool), it has some serious limitations. The base unit is actually quite large. Seriously. Go look at one. Switching to the new iMac gives you very little additional space from the old one. Furthermore, Apple continues to put it's ports in unreasonable places. Finaly, the damn screen doesn't pivot. It seems a godamned waste to make such a mobile screen, only to limit it to seriously traditional usage.
All of which would be OK (nothing is perfect), if Apple didn't secretly have a 17" iMac waiting in the wings: the eMac.
The eMac does two things that cripple it's sale-ability. One, it poits out the flaws of it's iMac cousin. It makes clear the flaws of iMac: the eMac and Mac use the same amount of desk space, even though the iMac's LCD should have given it a CLEAR footprint advantage. It's ports are reasonable located along the side (although what phobia Apple has about locating the ports on the front is beyond me), again pointing to the flaw in iMac. Finally, it reinforces the non-rotational nature of the "revolutionary" iMac LCD. The second thing that Apple has decreed with it's ed-only policy is to limit sales of the best idea Apple has had since the original iMac.
The very existence of the eMac points up to the problems of the iMac. The iMac, being the revolutionary consumer device looks prety poor in comparison to the eMac. Were I in the market for a new Mac, I'd prefer the eMac over the iMac, simply for the ease of use and lower price.
Of course, Apple denies that opportunity, making it damn dificult to get my grubby mitts on one by selling only to education.
Sometimes I think that Apple's perfect product would be the best computer/electronic device on the market that they never even have to sell. They could just design the ultimate New Thing, and then just put it on display somewhere, never having to do any of that goshdarn messy business about sales and such. Just perfect design forever.
So my thesis is this: The protectionist faction of Apple's executive team have run amuck. By constantly taking the brilliant products that the designers build, and narrow-purposing them as to not offend the "Apple way or the highway" mentality, they have placed an effective limit on Apple's future growth. By constantly abusing the end user into only buying what Unca Steve says, they create an antagonistic situation between user and the company, one that is only bound to get worse as the protectionist faction (led by Steve himself) makes all the decisions. The expansionist faction (in fact, if there even IS an expansionist faction) is the one that can grow market share, and ensure the 'ecology' of the platform for years to come. If Apple doesn't get more expansionist (allowing successful products to be sold in ways that will encourage growth, and eliminating artificial restrictions of 'market segmentation'), they will soon suffer serious setbacks, which no amount of wicked cool design will cure. The first step on this path would be to allow the eMac and the iMac both to be sold in the general market, and allowing the consumer to decide which is the right for him. Other steps would be to open iPod up to Windows users, and to incorporate OOB Windows compatibility from the get-go (perhaps by swallowing Connectix). the only products that Apple should protect are the software that make Macs unique from Windows, including the iStuff, FCP, and the like.
Yours, in armchair iCEO-ing:
TING5
To wit: The Cube, The iPod, the new iMac, and now the eMac.
The Cube was the best idea in a while over at Cupertino. It was a consumer machine, with just enough expandability to meet the demand of consumer users. Furthermore, it was cool, exciting, small, and looked damn good on a desk.
Of course, Apple shot themselves with the $1700 price tag.
Then the iPod. A brilliant use of emerging small drives to make the ultimate mp3 player.
Apple then releases it only to Mac users, depriving themselves of 95-97% of the market.
Then the new iMac. It looks like they have a winner: a machine so out of the ordinary, so cool, that even the crusties Windows user wants one. They even manage to get the price to something reasonable. However, despite the mobile screen (very cool), it has some serious limitations. The base unit is actually quite large. Seriously. Go look at one. Switching to the new iMac gives you very little additional space from the old one. Furthermore, Apple continues to put it's ports in unreasonable places. Finaly, the damn screen doesn't pivot. It seems a godamned waste to make such a mobile screen, only to limit it to seriously traditional usage.
All of which would be OK (nothing is perfect), if Apple didn't secretly have a 17" iMac waiting in the wings: the eMac.
The eMac does two things that cripple it's sale-ability. One, it poits out the flaws of it's iMac cousin. It makes clear the flaws of iMac: the eMac and Mac use the same amount of desk space, even though the iMac's LCD should have given it a CLEAR footprint advantage. It's ports are reasonable located along the side (although what phobia Apple has about locating the ports on the front is beyond me), again pointing to the flaw in iMac. Finally, it reinforces the non-rotational nature of the "revolutionary" iMac LCD. The second thing that Apple has decreed with it's ed-only policy is to limit sales of the best idea Apple has had since the original iMac.
The very existence of the eMac points up to the problems of the iMac. The iMac, being the revolutionary consumer device looks prety poor in comparison to the eMac. Were I in the market for a new Mac, I'd prefer the eMac over the iMac, simply for the ease of use and lower price.
Of course, Apple denies that opportunity, making it damn dificult to get my grubby mitts on one by selling only to education.
Sometimes I think that Apple's perfect product would be the best computer/electronic device on the market that they never even have to sell. They could just design the ultimate New Thing, and then just put it on display somewhere, never having to do any of that goshdarn messy business about sales and such. Just perfect design forever.
So my thesis is this: The protectionist faction of Apple's executive team have run amuck. By constantly taking the brilliant products that the designers build, and narrow-purposing them as to not offend the "Apple way or the highway" mentality, they have placed an effective limit on Apple's future growth. By constantly abusing the end user into only buying what Unca Steve says, they create an antagonistic situation between user and the company, one that is only bound to get worse as the protectionist faction (led by Steve himself) makes all the decisions. The expansionist faction (in fact, if there even IS an expansionist faction) is the one that can grow market share, and ensure the 'ecology' of the platform for years to come. If Apple doesn't get more expansionist (allowing successful products to be sold in ways that will encourage growth, and eliminating artificial restrictions of 'market segmentation'), they will soon suffer serious setbacks, which no amount of wicked cool design will cure. The first step on this path would be to allow the eMac and the iMac both to be sold in the general market, and allowing the consumer to decide which is the right for him. Other steps would be to open iPod up to Windows users, and to incorporate OOB Windows compatibility from the get-go (perhaps by swallowing Connectix). the only products that Apple should protect are the software that make Macs unique from Windows, including the iStuff, FCP, and the like.
Yours, in armchair iCEO-ing:
TING5
Comments
[ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: popstar92 ]</p>
This is a no-holds-barred attempt to win educational bids. It's about market share (and bragging rights, to some degree), not profit.
As for the clear superiority of the eMac relative to the iMac, I'm not sold on that. I'd much rather have the lighter, smaller, more adjustable iMac - with a brighter, sharper screen - than a 50 pound block with a relatively slow-refreshing CRT.
Obviously, the educational market has different needs and wants than I do, and the eMac addresses them very well. But I still think the iMac is the better machine for the consumer market. By a margin. Hell, it's what I really wanted when I bought my Cube.
Team up with Longaberger or Pfaltzgraf or Pampered Chef to coordinate patterns and stuff.
Neat-o!
<strong>I agree Apple does not know what it's doing. They need to put a smallish, 10" screen, on a computer. One that would make a good kitchen Mac.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
How many people would actually buy something like that?
<strong>
How many people would actually buy something like that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Many, many people. Probably hundreds of thousands, I'd say. My research shows a strong desire to accessorize in the kitchen. I've spent 3 years researching this for a thesis.
YUP. GOLD!
The iPod is playing a vital role in convincing fence-sitters to buy Macs. Why does Apple need to officially support Windows iPod compatibility? MediaFour can handle that.
The new iMac saves you much more space vs the older iMacs. Look at the old iMac and the new iMac from a top down perspective.
The eMac does not use the same amount of deskspace. You're on drugs, man. Even with the swivel base, the eMac doesn't have any usuable space under the monitor. Front facing ports are subject to much more abuse than back-facing or side-facing ports. I hope I never have to see exposed front-facing ports in a lab-style environment. The comptuers here at the OCF take a lot of abuse.
I would take an iMac over an eMac any day.
And I hardly think iMac sales will feel to much hurt from the eMac. There was still a 100,000 iMac backlog at the time of the conference call, right? The current iMac has nothing more to prove, while the eMac's popularity will be tested soon. The iPod is also a proven success. The Cube was a flop at any price.
eMac uses same desk space as G3 iMac, not G4 iMac
stupid.
<strong>There is no doubt that iMac sales(higher margin, larger profit) will be canabilized by eMac sales in the education markets.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think this is wrong. The eMac was created since educational users were balking at the iMac, probably both with respect to price, and durability. If they didn't offer the eMac, some (perhaps many) places would have switched away from Macs altogether.
Getting under the $1000 pricepoint is absolutely vital, and the new iMac just didn't cut it.
I'm certain that some sales that would have gone to the iMac will be switched to the eMac, but Apple must've figured that the loss of sales by not producing the eMac would be far greater...
The fear of canabalizing iMac sales I'm sure is the reason the eMac isn't being sold to the general public (at least not yet).
I believe the iPod helps generate Mac sales; something it wouldn't do if it were Windows compatable. Remember, Apple is a COMPUTER company.
I too am surprised that the eMac isn't offered to the general public. There has long been a clamoring for a 17" iMac. Why limit it to education sales? Just put a little higher price on it (to the general public) so that the margins will be as good as on the G4 iMac. I think both would sell well.
Finally, discontinue the 15" CRT iMac, Apple, unless you can drop the price enough so that it is truly a budget computer to compete with the cheapo wintel boxes out there.
<strong>Finally, discontinue the 15" CRT iMac, Apple, unless you can drop the price enough so that it is truly a budget computer to compete with the cheapo wintel boxes out there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think the 15" iMac is long for this world. Apple will probably drop the price on the eMac as quickly as they can, and once it hits $799 or so the old iMac's reason for being has vanished.
I don't think Apple will bother with cheaper machines, except for one-offs like the "NYC special" iMac. Consumers are price-conscious, but there's a threshold beyond which "affordable" becomes "cheap."
That, or let iDVD burn to an external firewire DVD-R drive....
Also, TING5 - you complain about the clutter and mess of wires from the cube, but you still want ports in the front. I know that the cube had it's own problems, but the idea of the G4 iMac is to hide those wires and look elegant. And really, is it that hard to reach around a circular computer that's on your desktop. Sure, PC boxes that sit with their backs to the wall are a pain to get to, and in comparison, the iMac is a breeze. There is also a USB port on the keyboard.
I really don't see how the eMac points out the iMacs flaws. They are two completely different designs. The iMac certainly takes up less space. The ports (as I stated above) really aren't that big of an issue. The biggest flaw I see it point out is price-point, but it does seem in line ($300 more for LCD when you compare edu prices).
<strong>
I don't think the 15" iMac is long for this world. Apple will probably drop the price on the eMac as quickly as they can, and once it hits $799 or so the old iMac's reason for being has vanished.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, but what will the poor consumer do, who can't afford a $1399 iMac G4 and isn't even allowed to buy an eMac? Come fall, after the school buying season, I think we'll see Apple change its mind on that one.
30 (or however many) eMacs for the students to work on.
1 (maybe 2) Superdrive iMacs so students could turn projects into DVD and do digital content creation.
1 Powermac G4 server with Remote Desktop for the teacher to use that monitors the lab.
(I think Apple might see it like this also)
[quote]Originally posted by There is no g5:
<strong>I honestly cannot figure out what Apple is trying to do with it's consumer products.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Strike one: the eMac is not a consumer product. It is an institutional product, specifically education but I think its strength is in that general market.
[quote]<strong>The Cube was the best idea in a while over at Cupertino ...Of course, Apple shot themselves with the $1700 price tag.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd say it was two-fold. The Cube couldn't be a high-end consumer model like it should have been because they didn't want to sacrifice the iMac DV SE. and its price was definitely too high. It left them with effectively no market to sell to (well, a small niche, and good for those people
[quote]<strong>Then the iPod. ...Apple then releases it only to Mac users, depriving themselves of 95-97% of the market.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The iPod is supposed to be a compelling reason to get a Mac. It is not a product that stands alone. thank goodness Apple is finally offering discount bundles of iMacs and iPods. That should always be the case.
[quote]<strong>Then the new iMac. ...However, despite the mobile screen (very cool), it has some serious limitations. The base unit is actually quite large.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's smaller than you think. The difference on my desk is pretty amazing. Besides, I'd like to see you fit al that stuff in such a small volume. the Cube had that big power brick and the main body had to sit next to a display, thus taking more room.
[quote]<strong>Furthermore, Apple continues to put it's ports in unreasonable places.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, the iMac is this round thing, and while you can't turn the whole thing completely around, there's no law that says that CD player has to poke out at you. You have a good 90" movement in either direction to rotate that thing and have access to everything.
Further, all those plugs are intimidating and ugly. Not exactly the look of ease-of-use, and you do have the standard USB plug on the keyboard. How often you you plug and unplug more than one item? I have a zip drive, a printer and a scanner all connected in the back and they never come off. I think it would be fair to say that a firewire port should be on the keyboard or near the front, but leave all that other stuff where it isn't an eyesore or an intimidating cacophony of wires.
[quote]<strong>Finally, the damn screen doesn't pivot. It seems a godamned waste to make such a mobile screen, only to limit it to seriously traditional usage.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're really over-reacting to the fact that it doesn't rotate from a horizontal screen to a vertical one. This is not a major issue, especially since the contents of the screen can't rotate with it anyway -- all that sideways text! It is at most a minor shortcoming.
[quote]<strong>The eMac does two things that cripple it's sale-ability. One, it poits out the flaws of it's iMac cousin.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It was designed to be an alternative to the iMac for educators, ergo it makes trade-offs. This is a case of one-size-does-not-fit-all and the two models prove that. the iMac is a much stronger idea, marketable to consumers. the eMac is a sensible albeit less exciting solution for the pragmatic concerns of educators. There's nothing wrong with Apple addressing both crowds, others do it all the time.
<strong>The second thing that Apple has decreed with it's ed-only policy is to limit sales of the best idea Apple has had since the original iMac.</strong><hr></blockquote>
not usre why this is a stronger idea than the iMac. The iMac is the very embodiment of the "digital hub." it screams its purpose and fits it very well. It makes a very bold statement about what a computer can in the home. The eMac is a less powerful idea albeit a clear one: a durable learning station.
We've seen the eMac in other incarnations before, but the iMac IMO begins (it's not there yet) to define its market instead of filling it.
[quote<strong>Were I in the market for a new Mac, I'd prefer the eMac over the iMac, simply for the ease of use and lower price.</strong>
Lower price, OK. Ease of use? That's at best a draw. The iMac is perhaps more delicate due to its screen. The eMac is a lot heavier. The CRT size is larger. The LCD is flicker-free. The iMac comes with a Superdrive. The eMac has audio in. and the looks are a more subjective matter though I think that the iMac is by far the better looking and friendlier machine, perhaps because it is so much less conventional.
I think to some extent, that's what it comes down to: convention or familiarity.
[quote]<strong>So my thesis is this: The protectionist faction of Apple's executive team have run amuck. By constantly taking the brilliant products that the designers build, and narrow-purposing them...</strong><hr></blockquote>
These products can hardly be said to be narrow in purpose. The eMac's market is limited, but that limit is still pretty big. and as I said before, it would make a good institutional machine in general. As for the rest of this, I'm trying to make sense of all of it...
<strong>...as to not offend the "Apple way or the highway" mentality, they have placed an effective limit on Apple's future growth.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think you can argue that by trying to make things that try to be all thing to all people, you can run yourself into the ground a lot faster than tailoring your products to specific markets. Really.
[quote[q]...By constantly abusing the end user into only buying what Unca Steve says, they create an antagonistic situation between user and the company, one that is only bound to get worse as the protectionist faction (led by Steve himself) makes all the decisions.[/qb]
Again, melodramatic. Envy for the eMac is one thing, but this is starting to sound like bolshevism...
[quote]<strong>(allowing successful products to be sold in ways that will encourage growth, and eliminating artificial restrictions of 'market segmentation'), they will soon suffer serious setbacks, which no amount of wicked cool design will cure.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This sounds like the rest of the PC industry talking, but not the electronic industry. Target markets are fundamental to almost all other industries: automobiles, stereos, furniture, clothes, etc. It is this branding and marketing that made the Gap a billion-dollar business and made BMW and Kia such successes. The PC industry is one of the only ones that tries to maintain a one-size-fits-all policy towards their buyers. That is, as though the needs of a school are the same as a business or for your home.
[quote]<strong>The first step on this path would be to allow the eMac and the iMac both to be sold in the general market, and allowing the consumer to decide which is the right for him. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, marketing darwinism sounds like a fine idea until you realize that Apple would be cannibalizing the sales of whatever they produce that way. That's a lot of junk and inventory on your own expense. You want people to choose between your product and someone else's product in the marketplace, and let the best machine win. Don't do it to yourself or you won't have a business for too long.
[quote]<strong>Other steps would be to open iPod up to Windows users, and to incorporate OOB Windows compatibility from the get-go (perhaps by swallowing Connectix).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Any simple analysis of any of these scenarios translates into less big hardware sales, their bread and butter, and more overhead and support costs. I've yet to see any scenario that goes more than two steps down the road that makes these things compelling for Apple to do. The most reasonable one is to bring "Yellow box" to Windows but even then that doesn't guarantee much of anything except more support issues.
Good points on topc
This thread is bizarre. Nobody really has even touched an eMac and half the people want to condemn Apple as idiots! Very strange.
I love the new iMac G4--remember G4--and now those who do not want to expose that lovely machine to the tender mercies of a room full of kids (of whatever age) and who do not believe that the iBook G3 can really solve their computing problems, will love the eMac. It is a G4 at the old (year ago) G3 iMac SE price or less WITH A 17" screen!
OK, so what's the gripe. Where's the bankruptcy of Apple's vision? I don't get it. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> I admit, eMac took me by surprise, but it certainly pushes me toward recommending a computer lab full of these new G4 machines over attempting to hang on in iMac G3 land or bring the whole world along to the iMac G4.
I think that model config of 2-3 iMacs in a lab together with 20 eMacs will work and it certainly brings G4 power right into the classroom without all the extra monitor, cable, and upgrade card horrors that drive education mad (or right over to the "answer men and women WINTEL companies love to throw at every problem. "Just buy our system package and we guarantee WE will keep it all running. RIIIGHT! <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
[quote]I honestly cannot figure out what Apple is trying to do with it's consumer products.
To wit: The Cube, The iPod, the new iMac, and now the eMac.<hr></blockquote>
Well considering the eMac is NOT a Consumer machine than what you are saying doesn't make sense. Go to: <a href="http://www.apple.com/hardware"; target="_blank">Apple Hardware Page</a> See an eMac? (other than down below under Education) Go to: <a href="http://www.store.apple.com"; target="_blank">Apple Store</a> See an eMac? It's for schools only! Education!
[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: Bodhi ]</p>