I don't know a lot about servers, but this looks awfully cool. And certainly, it can pack a lot of punch. Here's what's most exciting -- for the first time, no IT manager can trot out the excuse that "the servers have to be x86 so therefore the clients shall be as well."
And such a thin case -- they're going to be able to fit so many of these in such a small location, with so little cooling required because of the G4 chips. That has to count for a lot.
Interesting that the ATI Radeon 8500 AGP is a build-to-order option on the XServe. Does this mean the rest of the PowerMac line will be getting that choice too -- and that an ADC Radeon 8500 might be available at the AppleStore? I certainly hope so.
Man it is amazing how shortsighted some of you are, thinking that this is just a computer in a small rackmount case.
This thing comes with an unlimited client version of OSX Server included. So you buy a PC equivalent, well how much do you think it would cost to buy the software to run the rackmount for a PC?
Try around $4000 - 7000
Now maybe some of you won't go blithering on about how it sucks and isn't a good deal, do a bit more research before you start complaining about processors, etc. Do you even realize what is currently offered for a PC equivalent? What are the current specs? Here's a couple:
* All of these prices have no server management software included.
Dell PowerEdge 1650, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 1 x 72 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$3856.00]
Dell PowerEdge 1650, DP 2 x 1.13 GHZ PIII, 3 x 72 GB HD, 2 GB RAM + 4hr
onsite, 24/7 service option
[$7799.00]
IBM x330, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 1 x 73.4 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$4211.00]
IBM x330, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 2 x 73.4 GB HD, 2 GB RAM+ 4hr onsite, 24/7
service option
[$7257.00]
Compaq ProLiant DL360, DP 2 x 1.26 GHz PIII, 1 x 73 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$5225.00]
Compaq ProLiant DL360, DP 2 x 1.26 GHz PIII, 2 x 73 GB HD, 2 GB RAM+ 4hr
onsite, 24/7 service option
[$8821.00]
---
Compare those prices to Apple's:
Apple Xserve (Fastest Config) DP 2 x 1.00 GHz G4, 1 x 60 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$3999.00] <--- Includes OS w/unlimited clients & server mgmnt software
Apple Xserve (Custom Config) DP 2 x 1.00 GHz G4, 4 x 120 GB HD, 2 GB RAM +
4hr onsite, 24/7 service option
[$7799.00] <--- Includes OS w/unlimited clients & server mgmnt software
The Xserve sucks! Ya know why? It doesn't follow Jobs' product matrix! Who are they going to sell it to without the product matrix! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Looking at the diagram on the Macentral.com site, is Xserver using HyperTransport to connect the various sub-systems together? The chip/chips labeled system controller is in a hub/switch configuration (center)
<strong>Man it is amazing how shortsighted some of you are, thinking that this is just a computer in a small rackmount case.
This thing comes with an unlimited client version of OSX Server included. So you buy a PC equivalent, well how much do you think it would cost to buy the software to run the rackmount for a PC?
Try around $4000 - 7000
Now maybe some of you won't go blithering on about how it sucks and isn't a good deal, do a bit more research before you start complaining about processors, etc. Do you even realize what is currently offered for a PC equivalent? What are the current specs? Here's a couple:
* All of these prices have no server management software included.
Dell PowerEdge 1650, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 1 x 72 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$3856.00]
Dell PowerEdge 1650, DP 2 x 1.13 GHZ PIII, 3 x 72 GB HD, 2 GB RAM + 4hr
onsite, 24/7 service option
[$7799.00]
IBM x330, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 1 x 73.4 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$4211.00]
IBM x330, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 2 x 73.4 GB HD, 2 GB RAM+ 4hr onsite, 24/7
service option
[$7257.00]
Compaq ProLiant DL360, DP 2 x 1.26 GHz PIII, 1 x 73 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$5225.00]
Compaq ProLiant DL360, DP 2 x 1.26 GHz PIII, 2 x 73 GB HD, 2 GB RAM+ 4hr
onsite, 24/7 service option
[$8821.00]
---
Compare those prices to Apple's:
Apple Xserve (Fastest Config) DP 2 x 1.00 GHz G4, 1 x 60 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$3999.00] <--- Includes OS w/unlimited clients & server mgmnt software
Apple Xserve (Custom Config) DP 2 x 1.00 GHz G4, 4 x 120 GB HD, 2 GB RAM +
4hr onsite, 24/7 service option
[$7799.00] <--- Includes OS w/unlimited clients & server mgmnt software
(specs by Greg Rutledge)
Windows 2000 Server: 5 Client = [$799.00]
Windows 2000 Server: 25 Client = [$3295.00]
Windows NT4 Server: 25 Client = [$3799.00]
RedHat Linux 7.2: Unlimited Client = [$159.00]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank God! A voice of real sense and reason.
People, there is a world outside of your homes that Apple is trying to get into. This 1U server is a good machine to get them there. It may not break them into enterprises and such, but it could much better than the PowerMac QS ever could.
Precisely!! Our Win2000 Server OS cost more than the servers!! (Dells..... sigh) But that was a while ago, maybe I can do some fast talking to the IT guys.... We could get some real servers <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
There seem to be some huge lapses in good judgement by some users of this forum.
Why would you possibly want 802.11 in a server? Weird!
Costs to much and Apple not listening? This server is VERY cheap. If you want something cheaper then by a G3 iMac and use that. All G3 / G4s make great servers if you have low loads, lots of physical space and no need for redundancy.
Too small to take big loads? Apple have decided that the way ahead is clustering - and quite rightly too. Think about a big server - Google for example. All they have is a massive cluster of cheap servers. You get huge performance for a little money and huge redundancy. Would you rather Apple introduced an 8 processor G5 the size of a fridge? Really!
This server is PERFECT for Apple core users - education, video, media, science and medium business.
I think this is a superb product and something I will be introducing into my network. I manage a large educational facility which has over 15 racks of server and networking gear - Mac, Linux, Wintel - this is going to be PERFECT!!
After watching the video stream of the press conference... the things that really stuck with me is HOW they positioned themselves. In S. Jobs' own words: "We like to describe our offering in one word: HUMBLE..."
He stated that for everything they know about servers... there are 10 things they DON'T know (yet). This is just the FIRST step of MANY into this realm. Now... let's reevaluate what they released...
A 1U Dual processing server box capable of 2GB 266 SDRAM, 4 x 120GB ATA drives each on their OWN bus for higher throughput (keeping cost down), easy access, hot swapable components, great admin tools, great front-end UI for configuring & monitoring the server(s), all this starting around $3k and maxing out UNDER $7.5k... that's pretty darned CHEAP for that kind of box & performance.
Sure... I may be caught in the RDF... but the spec's married with the price is REALLY impressive to me... ESPECIALLY on their FIRST (real) attempt in this market.
Comments
<strong>No redundant power supplies, no SCSI option.
You can't please all the people all the time
Did you miss this line?
* two USB ports, one DB-9 serial console port and an optional Ultra3 SCSI card for connecting to external storage and backup devices;
I bolded the relevant parts.
:-)
And such a thin case -- they're going to be able to fit so many of these in such a small location, with so little cooling required because of the G4 chips. That has to count for a lot.
Will this mean that Apple could have a system in the TOP500 list?
<a href="http://www.top500.org/list/2001/11/"; target="_blank">http://www.top500.org/list/2001/11/</a>;
<strong>Check this out from Sun Micro: <a href="http://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml?cid=60268"; target="_blank">entry level 1U servers!</a>
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: /mandolux/ ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Those are not nealy as powerful as the Xserves. If you want a good comparison check out these Proliant servers: <a href="http://www.smb.compaq.com/ctoBases.asp?ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=1171&oi=E9 CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=" target="_blank">http://www.smb.compaq.com/ctoBases.asp?ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=1171&oi=E9 CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=</a>
Apple did a great job on this one.
<strong>
Those are not nealy as powerful as the Xserves. If you want a good comparison check out these Proliant servers: <a href="http://www.smb.compaq.com/ctoBases.asp?ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=1171&oi=E9 CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=" target="_blank">http://www.smb.compaq.com/ctoBases.asp?ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=1171&oi=E9 CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=</a>
Apple did a great job on this one.
WOW! The prices are a little too high don't you think. In that case, check this out:
<a href="http://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml?cid=48594"; target="_blank">high/mid-end entry level systems</a>
<a href="http://store.sun.com/catalog/doc/BrowsePage.jhtml;$sessionid$GDLPMPUVGWBLXAMTA1ESPJ T5AAAACJ1K?catid=26829" target="_blank">Here is the link for all Sun server solutions</a>
I forgot to mention that the same way I am a hardcore Mac user, I'm also a hardcore Sun addict.
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: /mandolux/ ]</p>
This thing comes with an unlimited client version of OSX Server included. So you buy a PC equivalent, well how much do you think it would cost to buy the software to run the rackmount for a PC?
Try around $4000 - 7000
Now maybe some of you won't go blithering on about how it sucks and isn't a good deal, do a bit more research before you start complaining about processors, etc. Do you even realize what is currently offered for a PC equivalent? What are the current specs? Here's a couple:
* All of these prices have no server management software included.
Dell PowerEdge 1650, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 1 x 72 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$3856.00]
Dell PowerEdge 1650, DP 2 x 1.13 GHZ PIII, 3 x 72 GB HD, 2 GB RAM + 4hr
onsite, 24/7 service option
[$7799.00]
IBM x330, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 1 x 73.4 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$4211.00]
IBM x330, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 2 x 73.4 GB HD, 2 GB RAM+ 4hr onsite, 24/7
service option
[$7257.00]
Compaq ProLiant DL360, DP 2 x 1.26 GHz PIII, 1 x 73 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$5225.00]
Compaq ProLiant DL360, DP 2 x 1.26 GHz PIII, 2 x 73 GB HD, 2 GB RAM+ 4hr
onsite, 24/7 service option
[$8821.00]
---
Compare those prices to Apple's:
Apple Xserve (Fastest Config) DP 2 x 1.00 GHz G4, 1 x 60 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$3999.00] <--- Includes OS w/unlimited clients & server mgmnt software
Apple Xserve (Custom Config) DP 2 x 1.00 GHz G4, 4 x 120 GB HD, 2 GB RAM +
4hr onsite, 24/7 service option
[$7799.00] <--- Includes OS w/unlimited clients & server mgmnt software
(specs by Greg Rutledge)
Windows 2000 Server: 5 Client = [$799.00]
Windows 2000 Server: 25 Client = [$3295.00]
Windows NT4 Server: 25 Client = [$3799.00]
RedHat Linux 7.2: Unlimited Client = [$159.00]
Go here for picture:
<a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0205/images/xserve/pages/xservelaunch03.htm"; target="_blank">Xserver Diagram</a>
[ 05-14-2002: Message edited by: CodeWarrior ]</p>
<strong>Man it is amazing how shortsighted some of you are, thinking that this is just a computer in a small rackmount case.
This thing comes with an unlimited client version of OSX Server included. So you buy a PC equivalent, well how much do you think it would cost to buy the software to run the rackmount for a PC?
Try around $4000 - 7000
Now maybe some of you won't go blithering on about how it sucks and isn't a good deal, do a bit more research before you start complaining about processors, etc. Do you even realize what is currently offered for a PC equivalent? What are the current specs? Here's a couple:
* All of these prices have no server management software included.
Dell PowerEdge 1650, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 1 x 72 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$3856.00]
Dell PowerEdge 1650, DP 2 x 1.13 GHZ PIII, 3 x 72 GB HD, 2 GB RAM + 4hr
onsite, 24/7 service option
[$7799.00]
IBM x330, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 1 x 73.4 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$4211.00]
IBM x330, DP 2 x 1.13 GHz PIII, 2 x 73.4 GB HD, 2 GB RAM+ 4hr onsite, 24/7
service option
[$7257.00]
Compaq ProLiant DL360, DP 2 x 1.26 GHz PIII, 1 x 73 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$5225.00]
Compaq ProLiant DL360, DP 2 x 1.26 GHz PIII, 2 x 73 GB HD, 2 GB RAM+ 4hr
onsite, 24/7 service option
[$8821.00]
---
Compare those prices to Apple's:
Apple Xserve (Fastest Config) DP 2 x 1.00 GHz G4, 1 x 60 GB HD, 512 MB RAM
[$3999.00] <--- Includes OS w/unlimited clients & server mgmnt software
Apple Xserve (Custom Config) DP 2 x 1.00 GHz G4, 4 x 120 GB HD, 2 GB RAM +
4hr onsite, 24/7 service option
[$7799.00] <--- Includes OS w/unlimited clients & server mgmnt software
(specs by Greg Rutledge)
Windows 2000 Server: 5 Client = [$799.00]
Windows 2000 Server: 25 Client = [$3295.00]
Windows NT4 Server: 25 Client = [$3799.00]
RedHat Linux 7.2: Unlimited Client = [$159.00]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank God! A voice of real sense and reason.
People, there is a world outside of your homes that Apple is trying to get into. This 1U server is a good machine to get them there. It may not break them into enterprises and such, but it could much better than the PowerMac QS ever could.
:-)
Why would you possibly want 802.11 in a server? Weird!
Costs to much and Apple not listening? This server is VERY cheap. If you want something cheaper then by a G3 iMac and use that. All G3 / G4s make great servers if you have low loads, lots of physical space and no need for redundancy.
Too small to take big loads? Apple have decided that the way ahead is clustering - and quite rightly too. Think about a big server - Google for example. All they have is a massive cluster of cheap servers. You get huge performance for a little money and huge redundancy. Would you rather Apple introduced an 8 processor G5 the size of a fridge? Really!
This server is PERFECT for Apple core users - education, video, media, science and medium business.
I think this is a superb product and something I will be introducing into my network. I manage a large educational facility which has over 15 racks of server and networking gear - Mac, Linux, Wintel - this is going to be PERFECT!!
After watching the video stream of the press conference... the things that really stuck with me is HOW they positioned themselves. In S. Jobs' own words: "We like to describe our offering in one word: HUMBLE..."
He stated that for everything they know about servers... there are 10 things they DON'T know (yet). This is just the FIRST step of MANY into this realm. Now... let's reevaluate what they released...
A 1U Dual processing server box capable of 2GB 266 SDRAM, 4 x 120GB ATA drives each on their OWN bus for higher throughput (keeping cost down), easy access, hot swapable components, great admin tools, great front-end UI for configuring & monitoring the server(s), all this starting around $3k and maxing out UNDER $7.5k... that's pretty darned CHEAP for that kind of box & performance.
Sure... I may be caught in the RDF... but the spec's married with the price is REALLY impressive to me... ESPECIALLY on their FIRST (real) attempt in this market.
just MHO...