<strong>Yes, fiune and good. I'll accept that a G4 is twice as fast per hegahertz than a Pentium 4. But the G3 is not.
I have used a 400 Pismo and a 700 Dell something-or-other laptop. The Pismo was slightly faster at common tasks, and signifcantly faster at MP3 ripping and DVD playing.
But still not very good. Why can't I buy an Apple laptop with a DVD drive that can actually the play the things at full speed?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't misrepresent the facts. You know full well that under OS 9, the DVD player sucks. Under OS X, however, it's a different story. It absolutely rocks (and this is on my ibook 500mhz). I can play it fullscreen or I can play it in the corner of my screen while doing other work. No dropped frames or anything. What was your point?
I am talking about the Pismo's 400 MHz performance under OS X. I tried it once under OS 9 and almost cried at the difference between it and the dedicated DVD player under my father's television.
My iMac 500 plays DVDs just fine. If nothing is running in the background, NOTHING, it can play all the frames in Braveheart. Pretty good.
No point in p[utting a DVD player in a computer that can't paly DVDs effecively. Except for DVD encyclopedias like Britannica, or large games (dunno if those have even been made).
Perhaps the 700 iBook is capable of playing DVDs correctly. I'm betting not. I'll pass on the iBook; it's the next version of the PowerMac for me.
The two things that I wish they would have done: 800mhz sahara and a geforce 2go with 32mb. That being said, as soon as I can muster up the funds, I am going to get the new ibook. For what I do with my mac, which isnt all that much, the ibook will be fine and it is much better than my 333 imac. And windows is out of the question, I will never go back to that trash.
Does anyone know if these are in the Apple retail stores or if anyone's tried one yet? I'd like to hear some people's first-hand opinion of the new iBook's performance.
<strong>I am talking about the Pismo's 400 MHz performance under OS X. I tried it once under OS 9 and almost cried at the difference between it and the dedicated DVD player under my father's television.
My iMac 500 plays DVDs just fine. If nothing is running in the background, NOTHING, it can play all the frames in Braveheart. Pretty good.
No point in p[utting a DVD player in a computer that can't paly DVDs effecively. Except for DVD encyclopedias like Britannica, or large games (dunno if those have even been made).
Perhaps the 700 iBook is capable of playing DVDs correctly. I'm betting not. I'll pass on the iBook; it's the next version of the PowerMac for me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
WTF are you talking about? Didn't you read my post? Stop with the FUD. It's one thing to think that the new ibook isn't that great, it's another to blatantly misrepresent its abilities. My ibook 500mhz plays all dvd's fine. With all kinds of stuff in the background. Mine you this is under 10.1. Under 9, I don't know b/c I never use it. The 700mhz should handle it fine.
<strong>The two things that I wish they would have done: 800mhz sahara and a geforce 2go with 32mb. </strong><hr></blockquote>
800mhz G3 would have been good, the geforce 2go is IMHO worse then the ATI Radeon-M...power consumption and DVD performance is much better on the ATI cards (according to what I have read). 32mb would have been nice, but with a max resolution of 1024X768, it is unnecesary. QE will work optimally with a 16MB agp 2x card at that resolution.
QE will work optimally with a 16MB agp 2x card at that resolution.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If that is true, then why isn't Apple saying so. It would be in their best interest to make that perfectly clear. Instead, they have gone out of their way to say that it won't. Why do people insist on corecting Apple. Please explain.
If that is true, then why isn't Apple saying so. It would be in their best interest to make that perfectly clear. Instead, they have gone out of their way to say that it won't. Why do people insist on corecting Apple. Please explain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
most people with AGP 2X cards that will work with QE according to apple (memory aside) have towers that will drive more pixles then the iBook will. iBook users are not going to tax QE like those users with 1600X1200 resolutions will. that 32 MB optimum performance applies to them. If it didnt, then apple would have a small discaimor about the 32mb optimum performace comment
If that is true, then why isn't Apple saying so. It would be in their best interest to make that perfectly clear. Instead, they have gone out of their way to say that it won't. Why do people insist on corecting Apple. Please explain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's already been confirmed that the rev. b tibooks will support QE. By extension, the new ibooks will, as well (they have the same GPU).
So the consensus among you redundent evangelical *******s is that, since the ibook has an enjoyable user interface, the mediocrity of the hardware is inconsequential.
It seems that I need to point out the stupidity in this argument. First, this is a forum about hardware. Hardware in the ibook is generally subpar and below current technological standards. This is an undisputable fact. I need not recap technical specifics because they are known to all except the sensory disabled. Criticism of the bad hardware in a hardware forum is valid. I hope this ends all talk of redemption of the hardware through the virtues of the user interface because I have deduced, for you who cannot on your own, that the two are disconnected. Thank you.
<strong>Hardware in the ibook is generally subpar and below current technological standards. This is an undisputable fact.</strong><hr></blockquote>Really? It has some of the most advanced CPU technology of any Mac, and compares favorably to most laptops on the PC side. This Sahara is a .13 SOI low-k dielectric copper chip with just 5 pipeline stages and up to a 200Mhz FSB.
A Dell Inspiron for the same price has the same graphics card, and a 1Ghz mobile celeron. Tell me a mobile celeron is more powerful than the Sahara - I doubt it. And it's probably stepped down most of the time when it's on the battery.
It also has the same optical drive, RAM, and HD. Same bus speed, but half the L2 cache as the iBook. The Dell does have a larger screen, but it's also bigger and heavier.
Sorry, I just don't see this as subpar. I usually don't fall into the Mhz myth RDF, but I think that this new G3 is a better performer for the Mhz than people are giving credit.
A DELL Inspiron for the same price as the iBook 14" Combo has a 1.4Ghz P4 (maybe not that much better than a celeron) the same spec for optical and HDD, airport built in (miniPCI) and a nVidia4Go w/64MB RAM for a $150Canadian less than the iBook14" Combo.
That's a $1999 (Canadian) Insipron 2650 optioned with $650 worth of upgrades -- nVidia4Go, miniPCI airport, and the Combo -- to a total cost of $2648 before shipping and taxes.***
It's heavy and the battery life probably isn't great, doesn't have the nifty Apple software and doesn't look as good. But it's cheaper and more configurable.
Portable hardware-wise, I'd call them even except for the video system, and the fact that dell manages to include an 802.11 capability and still come in cheaper than the iBook.
Apple needs to start bundling airport at the current price point for ALL IT's PORTABLE MACHINES or at least dropping the upgrade price to around 50 USD. They may hve been first with airport, but just about everyone now includes it or options it at a much lower cost.
PS, the 200MHz capabilities of Sahara don't mean anything if they're still talking to 100Mhz SD-RAM.
***PMS, DELL charges 120 Canadian for shipping on it's portables, it's in the small print. What does Apple charge? If their shipping charges are included in the webstore price, then that's the difference. You can always go to a retailer with Apple, and save the cost that way -- just curious?
<strong>Apple needs to start bundling airport at the current price point for ALL IT's PORTABLE MACHINES or at least dropping the upgrade price to around 50 USD. They may hve been first with airport, but just about everyone now includes it or options it at a much lower cost.</strong><hr></blockquote> most definately... how much can an airport card cost? I mean, they have been out for the better part of 2 years?!?! arnt these prices supposed to come down??!?!
[quote]PS, the 200MHz capabilities of Sahara don't mean anything if they're still talking to 100Mhz SD-RAM.<hr></blockquote> I'd have to agree with this, i mean it is one thing to over clock the bus from 66 MHz---->100 MHz, but gettin a 200MHz on hardware that noone knows is even capable of supporting speeds like that does not seem like a good idea...
[quote]***PMS, DELL charges 120 Canadian for shipping on it's portables, it's in the small print. What does Apple charge? If their shipping charges are included in the webstore price, then that's the difference. You can always go to a retailer with Apple, and save the cost that way -- just curious?<hr></blockquote>
Isnt it P.P.S. (post post script??)
Shipping is free for Apple stuff in the US, for canada I have no idea.... another thing yo uhave to think about is taxes... you have the option of buying through a mail order place that doesnt charge taxes (in the US) if you buy through apple or dell im 90% sure taxes are assured... another perk of going mail order is that you get freebies(sp?) in addition to the apple promotions....
A DELL Inspiron for the same price as the iBook 14" Combo has a 1.4Ghz P4 (maybe not that much better than a celeron) the same spec for optical and HDD, airport built in (miniPCI) and a nVidia4Go w/64MB RAM for a $150Canadian less than the iBook14" Combo.</strong><hr></blockquote>I just looked for a Dell laptop at the same price as the cheapest iBook, US $1199, and the base Inspiron 4100 popped up. It has the same HD, optical drive, bus speed, and RAM specs as the iBook, but a larger screen (at the same resolution, though), a 1 Ghz Celeron with a smaller L2 cache, and it's a larger and heavier machine.
And actually the wireless card costs $160 extra, and Apple's is $100. Apple's basestation is $20 more, but right now Apple's is $100 off, making it $80 less.
I just don't see the huge difference. Dell has so many different models, that I'm sure you can find comparisons favorable to them, especially as you get higher in price - they're the price leader and they have razor-thin margins. I think we all know there are problems with the PowerMacs, but I don't think the iBook compares so poorly.
<strong>I hope this ends all talk of redemption of the hardware through the virtues of the user interface because I have deduced, for you who cannot on your own, that the two are disconnected. Thank you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Synergy.
syn·er·gy Pronunciation Key (snr-j)
n. pl. syn·er·gies
1. The interaction of two or more agents or forces so that their combined effect is greater than the sum of their individual effects.
2. Cooperative interaction among groups, especially among the acquired subsidiaries or merged parts of a corporation, that creates an enhanced combined effect.
I don't think that the iBook compares too poorly either -- I thought I mentioned that. Overall (except for the video system) I'd call them about even. I compared the top iBook, a decked out 1.4Ghz 2650 (14" screen, regular XGA)
Some things go in favor of DELL -- Video system, BTO configurations, included airport (I consider it included because although they may charge 160 for it, when you include it, your system still comes out similarly priced to the iBook without airport.
Somethings go in favor of iBook -- Software, style, battery life, size.
When you add the DELL shipping costs (at least in Canada) the difference is a scant $30, but again that's comparing an airport equipped DELL to an airport ready iBook.***
As far as base stations go, I don't think I'd take either DELL's or Apple's solution for home use. Expensive, capacity I don't need.
You can get cheaper 3rd party base stations with all the features you need at up to half the cost.
I will be buying a laptop this summers and the 12" Combo Drive model is very tempting. I planed on purchasing a refurbished 550MHz DVD TiBook, but now I'm unsure. A 5-stage 700MHz G3 with 512K cache sounds faster than a 7-stage 550MHz G4 with 256K cache on the same bus. The iBook has the same Mobility Radeon GPU which supports QE, plus it has the same fast 8X Combo-Drive the newer TiBooks use. The only downside is the small screen, but the iBook is lighter and more portable. It is also cheaper than the $1900 I'd need for the TiBook. I could even give it 384MB of RAM and it would still cost less. Very tempting...Great notebook.
Comments
<strong>Yes, fiune and good. I'll accept that a G4 is twice as fast per hegahertz than a Pentium 4. But the G3 is not.
I have used a 400 Pismo and a 700 Dell something-or-other laptop. The Pismo was slightly faster at common tasks, and signifcantly faster at MP3 ripping and DVD playing.
But still not very good. Why can't I buy an Apple laptop with a DVD drive that can actually the play the things at full speed?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't misrepresent the facts. You know full well that under OS 9, the DVD player sucks. Under OS X, however, it's a different story. It absolutely rocks (and this is on my ibook 500mhz). I can play it fullscreen or I can play it in the corner of my screen while doing other work. No dropped frames or anything. What was your point?
My iMac 500 plays DVDs just fine. If nothing is running in the background, NOTHING, it can play all the frames in Braveheart. Pretty good.
No point in p[utting a DVD player in a computer that can't paly DVDs effecively. Except for DVD encyclopedias like Britannica, or large games (dunno if those have even been made).
Perhaps the 700 iBook is capable of playing DVDs correctly. I'm betting not. I'll pass on the iBook; it's the next version of the PowerMac for me.
<strong>I am talking about the Pismo's 400 MHz performance under OS X. I tried it once under OS 9 and almost cried at the difference between it and the dedicated DVD player under my father's television.
My iMac 500 plays DVDs just fine. If nothing is running in the background, NOTHING, it can play all the frames in Braveheart. Pretty good.
No point in p[utting a DVD player in a computer that can't paly DVDs effecively. Except for DVD encyclopedias like Britannica, or large games (dunno if those have even been made).
Perhaps the 700 iBook is capable of playing DVDs correctly. I'm betting not. I'll pass on the iBook; it's the next version of the PowerMac for me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
WTF are you talking about? Didn't you read my post? Stop with the FUD. It's one thing to think that the new ibook isn't that great, it's another to blatantly misrepresent its abilities.
<strong>The two things that I wish they would have done: 800mhz sahara and a geforce 2go with 32mb. </strong><hr></blockquote>
800mhz G3 would have been good, the geforce 2go is IMHO worse then the ATI Radeon-M...power consumption and DVD performance is much better on the ATI cards (according to what I have read). 32mb would have been nice, but with a max resolution of 1024X768, it is unnecesary. QE will work optimally with a 16MB agp 2x card at that resolution.
<strong>
QE will work optimally with a 16MB agp 2x card at that resolution.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If that is true, then why isn't Apple saying so. It would be in their best interest to make that perfectly clear. Instead, they have gone out of their way to say that it won't. Why do people insist on corecting Apple. Please explain.
<strong>
If that is true, then why isn't Apple saying so. It would be in their best interest to make that perfectly clear. Instead, they have gone out of their way to say that it won't. Why do people insist on corecting Apple. Please explain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
most people with AGP 2X cards that will work with QE according to apple (memory aside) have towers that will drive more pixles then the iBook will. iBook users are not going to tax QE like those users with 1600X1200 resolutions will. that 32 MB optimum performance applies to them. If it didnt, then apple would have a small discaimor about the 32mb optimum performace comment
<strong>
If that is true, then why isn't Apple saying so. It would be in their best interest to make that perfectly clear. Instead, they have gone out of their way to say that it won't. Why do people insist on corecting Apple. Please explain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's already been confirmed that the rev. b tibooks will support QE. By extension, the new ibooks will, as well (they have the same GPU).
It seems that I need to point out the stupidity in this argument. First, this is a forum about hardware. Hardware in the ibook is generally subpar and below current technological standards. This is an undisputable fact. I need not recap technical specifics because they are known to all except the sensory disabled. Criticism of the bad hardware in a hardware forum is valid. I hope this ends all talk of redemption of the hardware through the virtues of the user interface because I have deduced, for you who cannot on your own, that the two are disconnected. Thank you.
<strong>Hardware in the ibook is generally subpar and below current technological standards. This is an undisputable fact.</strong><hr></blockquote>Really? It has some of the most advanced CPU technology of any Mac, and compares favorably to most laptops on the PC side. This Sahara is a .13 SOI low-k dielectric copper chip with just 5 pipeline stages and up to a 200Mhz FSB.
A Dell Inspiron for the same price has the same graphics card, and a 1Ghz mobile celeron. Tell me a mobile celeron is more powerful than the Sahara - I doubt it. And it's probably stepped down most of the time when it's on the battery.
It also has the same optical drive, RAM, and HD. Same bus speed, but half the L2 cache as the iBook. The Dell does have a larger screen, but it's also bigger and heavier.
Sorry, I just don't see this as subpar. I usually don't fall into the Mhz myth RDF, but I think that this new G3 is a better performer for the Mhz than people are giving credit.
A DELL Inspiron for the same price as the iBook 14" Combo has a 1.4Ghz P4 (maybe not that much better than a celeron) the same spec for optical and HDD, airport built in (miniPCI) and a nVidia4Go w/64MB RAM for a $150Canadian less than the iBook14" Combo.
That's a $1999 (Canadian) Insipron 2650 optioned with $650 worth of upgrades -- nVidia4Go, miniPCI airport, and the Combo -- to a total cost of $2648 before shipping and taxes.***
It's heavy and the battery life probably isn't great, doesn't have the nifty Apple software and doesn't look as good. But it's cheaper and more configurable.
Portable hardware-wise, I'd call them even except for the video system, and the fact that dell manages to include an 802.11 capability and still come in cheaper than the iBook.
Apple needs to start bundling airport at the current price point for ALL IT's PORTABLE MACHINES or at least dropping the upgrade price to around 50 USD. They may hve been first with airport, but just about everyone now includes it or options it at a much lower cost.
PS, the 200MHz capabilities of Sahara don't mean anything if they're still talking to 100Mhz SD-RAM.
***PMS, DELL charges 120 Canadian for shipping on it's portables, it's in the small print. What does Apple charge? If their shipping charges are included in the webstore price, then that's the difference. You can always go to a retailer with Apple, and save the cost that way -- just curious?
<strong>Apple needs to start bundling airport at the current price point for ALL IT's PORTABLE MACHINES or at least dropping the upgrade price to around 50 USD. They may hve been first with airport, but just about everyone now includes it or options it at a much lower cost.</strong><hr></blockquote> most definately... how much can an airport card cost? I mean, they have been out for the better part of 2 years?!?! arnt these prices supposed to come down??!?!
[quote]PS, the 200MHz capabilities of Sahara don't mean anything if they're still talking to 100Mhz SD-RAM.<hr></blockquote> I'd have to agree with this, i mean it is one thing to over clock the bus from 66 MHz---->100 MHz, but gettin a 200MHz on hardware that noone knows is even capable of supporting speeds like that does not seem like a good idea...
[quote]***PMS, DELL charges 120 Canadian for shipping on it's portables, it's in the small print. What does Apple charge? If their shipping charges are included in the webstore price, then that's the difference. You can always go to a retailer with Apple, and save the cost that way -- just curious?<hr></blockquote>
Isnt it P.P.S. (post post script??)
Shipping is free for Apple stuff in the US, for canada I have no idea.... another thing yo uhave to think about is taxes... you have the option of buying through a mail order place that doesnt charge taxes (in the US) if you buy through apple or dell im 90% sure taxes are assured... another perk of going mail order is that you get freebies(sp?) in addition to the apple promotions....
<strong>Which inspiron?
A DELL Inspiron for the same price as the iBook 14" Combo has a 1.4Ghz P4 (maybe not that much better than a celeron) the same spec for optical and HDD, airport built in (miniPCI) and a nVidia4Go w/64MB RAM for a $150Canadian less than the iBook14" Combo.</strong><hr></blockquote>I just looked for a Dell laptop at the same price as the cheapest iBook, US $1199, and the base Inspiron 4100 popped up. It has the same HD, optical drive, bus speed, and RAM specs as the iBook, but a larger screen (at the same resolution, though), a 1 Ghz Celeron with a smaller L2 cache, and it's a larger and heavier machine.
And actually the wireless card costs $160 extra, and Apple's is $100. Apple's basestation is $20 more, but right now Apple's is $100 off, making it $80 less.
I just don't see the huge difference. Dell has so many different models, that I'm sure you can find comparisons favorable to them, especially as you get higher in price - they're the price leader and they have razor-thin margins. I think we all know there are problems with the PowerMacs, but I don't think the iBook compares so poorly.
<strong>I hope this ends all talk of redemption of the hardware through the virtues of the user interface because I have deduced, for you who cannot on your own, that the two are disconnected. Thank you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Synergy.
syn·er·gy Pronunciation Key (snr-j)
n. pl. syn·er·gies
1. The interaction of two or more agents or forces so that their combined effect is greater than the sum of their individual effects.
2. Cooperative interaction among groups, especially among the acquired subsidiaries or merged parts of a corporation, that creates an enhanced combined effect.
I don't think that the iBook compares too poorly either -- I thought I mentioned that. Overall (except for the video system) I'd call them about even. I compared the top iBook, a decked out 1.4Ghz 2650 (14" screen, regular XGA)
Some things go in favor of DELL -- Video system, BTO configurations, included airport (I consider it included because although they may charge 160 for it, when you include it, your system still comes out similarly priced to the iBook without airport.
Somethings go in favor of iBook -- Software, style, battery life, size.
When you add the DELL shipping costs (at least in Canada) the difference is a scant $30, but again that's comparing an airport equipped DELL to an airport ready iBook.***
As far as base stations go, I don't think I'd take either DELL's or Apple's solution for home use. Expensive, capacity I don't need.
You can get cheaper 3rd party base stations with all the features you need at up to half the cost.
mmmm, overclockable goodness
<strong>700mhz G3 might be "roughly" on par with a 850mhz P3. Easy on the crack pipe...</strong><hr></blockquote>
You sure about that?