So I am taking my first formal class in a few years out of college, and having been out of the classroom so long, I am a bit out of touch with today's practices and trends for computer use in the classroom. ... Are paperless classrooms the future?
Back to the original post...
It generally depends on what you're doing in the classroom. I've been in college 3 years now as an engineering major and the only classes I've seen people bring their laptops to are the core classes that require a lot of straight, non-mathematical note-taking. (History, Geography, PoliSci, etc...) In my mathematics, engineering and computer science classes it becomes rather difficult to take notes because typing equations can be a slow process. Now, for comp sci it may not be that bad since you can play with your code during the lecture. There have been lots of times I wished I could have had a laptop with me to download my profs notes or type up a few extra points that were included with the hand outs, but I guess it evens out because if I had one, I'd play online with it.
The paper and pencil won't ever die for taking notes because for mainly math and engineering, it is far more efficient to use them. But it really depends on what classes you're taking and if you can resisit the urge to play around with it while you're in the classroom. If you're really a perfectionist and like to keep ALL of your notes for reference, you can always type up your handwritten notes later. That's what I do, and since it requires me to read and type my notes one more time, it helps me learn the material.
EDIT: Software recomendations - hmmm ... for the Mac, MS Word and Pages are both good. I think I'd find taking notes on PowerPoint VERY annoying. I t really depends on a lot of factors like the classes, your learning stlye, etc, but you're really after something simple and quick that you can refine later if needs be.
I have profs that do, but I don't ... takes too much time, and I already have the notebook. BUT, it doesn't sound like a bad idea if you don't wanna carry notebooks around forever.
i am sure i differ wit others, but i cannot take notes nearly as fast with a computer as i can with a thick notebook and a pen or pencil. handwriting recognition? i have one of the best recognition engines out there, and i have trained myself to read my scribble under all sorts of circumstances.
am i being sarcastic? a bit. but it's going to be a long time before they can make the computer with input device control to rival or exceed the good old paper and pen(cil)
i am sure i differ wit others, but i cannot take notes nearly as fast with a computer as i can with a thick notebook and a pen or pencil. handwriting recognition? i have one of the best recognition engines out there, and i have trained myself to read my scribble under all sorts of circumstances.
am i being sarcastic? a bit. but it's going to be a long time before they can make the computer with input device control to rival or exceed the good old paper and pen(cil)
With something like a tablet PC, you don't really *need* handwriting recognition. If you think about it, you just write/draw your notes as usual, but it's to an electronic document (stored as vector data, a bitmap or something) instead of to paper.
Probably the best solution is to keep two copies if you want the notes for later reference. As was stated in an earlier post, paper is a little more secure than an electronic document. So you could:
1) Take notes on paper, then scan (or type them up) to the computer for later reference.
2) Take notes on the laptop, and then print out paper copies later.
Then you just keep the paper copies stored in a box (and preferably organized) in the case that something happens to the electronic versions. Then you just use the electronic versions for reference.
What do you care? They pay for the class and they should have the right to use them.
No they shouldn't... They are intrinsically distracting to others.
In any event, it is my perogative as a prof to ensure that students are learning and not wasting my time or energy or the time or energy of their classmates.
..it is my perogative as a prof to ensure that students are learning and not wasting my time...
With all due respect, if I'm contributing to your hefty salary as a professor, I don't give a sh*t if I'm wasting your time.
I always thought it was ridiculous when my professors would dock points from our grade for low attendance. Same argument. I'm paying for the class. I'll show up when and if I please.
You, as a professor, are getting paid to teach a class that I'm paying for and then do your research and studies outside of that. But hell, most professors don't even teach their own classes anymore. They get some graduate student to do it for them. Now I'm glad I'm paying your salary to not show up to class.
Higher education is screwed up and I'm glad I'm finished with it.
With all due respect, if I'm contributing to your hefty salary as a professor, I don't give a sh*t if I'm wasting your time.
Well I do, and I assign the grades.
Edit: And to be honest, most science profs have grants which pay their salary, and are not dependent on the smalls sums which are extracted from the students tuition.
It comes down to this, computers disturb others, cell phones disturb others, a clearly distracted ipod listener disturbs others, these disturbances have no place in a class room...
As far as attendence is concerned, if you are on the cusp of a B and B+ and haven't shown up to class, then you get the worse grade.
No they shouldn't... They are intrinsically distracting to others.
In any event, it is my perogative as a prof to ensure that students are learning and not wasting my time or energy or the time or energy of their classmates.
If I took classes I would require a laptop due to my disability. Writing is hard for me and typing would be faster. I also would record the lecture for reference. How would you handle someone who is disabled and using a laptop is easier for them? I would also have to sit in the front row as I am legally blind.
you know what's bizarre about undergrad university/college? it's the only situation in the world where people want the LEAST for their money. they WANT profs to cancel classes, end early, and go crazy when the prof goes over time, which would be giving them MORE for their money. fortunately grad school, at least for me, showed students once again giving a damn about the investment/return ratio of university.
it's like, i pay and i have the right to be a lazy-ass, so i'm not coming to class or challenging myself. i guess you have that right, but it's really stupid reasoning. i remember this one class that was 'open' to upper-level undergrads and it would have been a great opportunity for them...something like a 6 or 7 to 1 student-prof ratio, plus a classroom full of people interested in the topic...anyhow, every quarter 2-3 undergrads would sign up and inevetibaly not show by the 2nd week because it was 'hard'
If I took classes I would require a laptop due to my disability. Writing is hard for me and typing would be faster. I also would record the lecture for reference. How would you handle someone who is disabled and using a laptop is easier for them? I would also have to sit in the front row as I am legally blind.
A student would need to show pressing need for me to allow them to use laptops in the classroom. You don't need head phones to record lectures.
As a graduate student in the sciences who hopes to be a prof in the not too distant future, I will forbid computers from my clasroom, unless I want groups or individuals to work on visualizing a problem.
As a graduate student myself, I think that's extremely misguided.
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
No they shouldn't... They are intrinsically distracting to others.
So you say, but not in my experience.
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I'm a prof, and I get probably 5% of students using computers. I can't imagine it would be a good idea for note-taking.
It is. I can type far faster than I can write by hand and I digest information far better when I read it than when I hear it. I can search them better, I keep them online and can access them from all of the machines I use. They are easier to read, search, scan and access even long after the class is over. Hell, I still use notes from undergrad that I typed up once I started using a computer. With lecture packs, slides, articles, etc posted online, printing everything out on paper is just plain stupid when I can annotate the slide or article or whatever directly on the machine.
I think it's unfortunate that some profs think they should tell students exactly how to learn, even if the prof's often misguided way (after all, many profs aren't really there because they are great "teachers") makes it more difficult for the student to digest and retain the information and concepts. It's counterproductive and serves no rational purpose. "It distracts others." Bullshit. Then again, my undergrad was surrounded by kids who were accustomed to being the smartest kids in the school back in high school, so YMMV, particularly if you teach somewhere with disinterested students.
Still, a prof who bans laptops in a normal classroom setting has control issues that he needs to work through. No doubt there are some situations where it detracts, but this blanket ban attitude shows that you, hardeeharhar, haven't really thought about it outside of your personal attitude toward it.
Also, as an academic librarian, I'm all too aware of how slow the broader academic community has been in getting up to speed with electronic tools in the classroom. I'm at one of the country's top schools and it's really only been in the past 2-3 years that tools like Blackboard have really picked up. Honestly, learn not to make the same mistake older academic librarians made: acting like luddites while the students' needs evolve past what you can provide, forcing you to play catch-up when you finally realize how wrong you were.
With all due respect, if I'm contributing to your hefty salary as a professor, I don't give a sh*t if I'm wasting your time.
I always thought it was ridiculous when my professors would dock points from our grade for low attendance. Same argument. I'm paying for the class. I'll show up when and if I please.
You, as a professor, are getting paid to teach a class that I'm paying for and then do your research and studies outside of that. But hell, most professors don't even teach their own classes anymore. They get some graduate student to do it for them. Now I'm glad I'm paying your salary to not show up to class.
Higher education is screwed up and I'm glad I'm finished with it.
Um, if you want to use the "I'm paying your salary" argument...
My taxes pay the salaries of the police force; therefore, I should never be fined, ticketed or arrested for any infractions.
My tuition pays the professor's salary; therefore, I should get whatever grade in the class I want him to give me without putting in any work.
The funny thing about attendance... If attendance is 10% of you final grade, then you automatically can get 100% of that for *FREE*. All you have to do is show up. Hell, you can show up, go to sleep and still get that 10%. Yet people complain about it.
That's not a good use of analogy and that's not what I'm saying.
Point taken, but I don't think that the 'I pay your salary' argument holds much water. People use it too much, and feel that they are entitled to things because they 'pay someone's salary.' (retail outlets, restaurants, government jobs, service positions, etc)
I agree with you that his stance on laptops is antiquated and misguided, but I just don't like your argument against it. Sorry.
Comments
Originally posted by sternone
I'm not such a scared ass .. they can always try, i kick back!! (and harder)
i like to think there is some virtue in remaining unnoticed
Originally posted by cygsid
So I am taking my first formal class in a few years out of college, and having been out of the classroom so long, I am a bit out of touch with today's practices and trends for computer use in the classroom. ... Are paperless classrooms the future?
Back to the original post...
It generally depends on what you're doing in the classroom. I've been in college 3 years now as an engineering major and the only classes I've seen people bring their laptops to are the core classes that require a lot of straight, non-mathematical note-taking. (History, Geography, PoliSci, etc...) In my mathematics, engineering and computer science classes it becomes rather difficult to take notes because typing equations can be a slow process. Now, for comp sci it may not be that bad since you can play with your code during the lecture. There have been lots of times I wished I could have had a laptop with me to download my profs notes or type up a few extra points that were included with the hand outs, but I guess it evens out because if I had one, I'd play online with it.
The paper and pencil won't ever die for taking notes because for mainly math and engineering, it is far more efficient to use them. But it really depends on what classes you're taking and if you can resisit the urge to play around with it while you're in the classroom. If you're really a perfectionist and like to keep ALL of your notes for reference, you can always type up your handwritten notes later. That's what I do, and since it requires me to read and type my notes one more time, it helps me learn the material.
EDIT: Software recomendations - hmmm ... for the Mac, MS Word and Pages are both good. I think I'd find taking notes on PowerPoint VERY annoying. I t really depends on a lot of factors like the classes, your learning stlye, etc, but you're really after something simple and quick that you can refine later if needs be.
Originally posted by progmac
does anyone here scan their hand-written notes?
I have profs that do, but I don't ... takes too much time, and I already have the notebook. BUT, it doesn't sound like a bad idea if you don't wanna carry notebooks around forever.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Paper doesn't crash, get corrupted, or require electricity.
But it ain't a chick magnet either..
am i being sarcastic? a bit. but it's going to be a long time before they can make the computer with input device control to rival or exceed the good old paper and pen(cil)
Originally posted by rok
i am sure i differ wit others, but i cannot take notes nearly as fast with a computer as i can with a thick notebook and a pen or pencil. handwriting recognition? i have one of the best recognition engines out there, and i have trained myself to read my scribble under all sorts of circumstances.
am i being sarcastic? a bit. but it's going to be a long time before they can make the computer with input device control to rival or exceed the good old paper and pen(cil)
With something like a tablet PC, you don't really *need* handwriting recognition. If you think about it, you just write/draw your notes as usual, but it's to an electronic document (stored as vector data, a bitmap or something) instead of to paper.
Probably the best solution is to keep two copies if you want the notes for later reference. As was stated in an earlier post, paper is a little more secure than an electronic document. So you could:
1) Take notes on paper, then scan (or type them up) to the computer for later reference.
2) Take notes on the laptop, and then print out paper copies later.
Then you just keep the paper copies stored in a box (and preferably organized) in the case that something happens to the electronic versions. Then you just use the electronic versions for reference.
Originally posted by hxc04
What do you care? They pay for the class and they should have the right to use them.
No they shouldn't... They are intrinsically distracting to others.
In any event, it is my perogative as a prof to ensure that students are learning and not wasting my time or energy or the time or energy of their classmates.
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
..it is my perogative as a prof to ensure that students are learning and not wasting my time...
With all due respect, if I'm contributing to your hefty salary as a professor, I don't give a sh*t if I'm wasting your time.
I always thought it was ridiculous when my professors would dock points from our grade for low attendance. Same argument. I'm paying for the class. I'll show up when and if I please.
You, as a professor, are getting paid to teach a class that I'm paying for and then do your research and studies outside of that. But hell, most professors don't even teach their own classes anymore. They get some graduate student to do it for them. Now I'm glad I'm paying your salary to not show up to class.
Higher education is screwed up and I'm glad I'm finished with it.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
With all due respect, if I'm contributing to your hefty salary as a professor, I don't give a sh*t if I'm wasting your time.
Well I do, and I assign the grades.
Edit: And to be honest, most science profs have grants which pay their salary, and are not dependent on the smalls sums which are extracted from the students tuition.
It comes down to this, computers disturb others, cell phones disturb others, a clearly distracted ipod listener disturbs others, these disturbances have no place in a class room...
As far as attendence is concerned, if you are on the cusp of a B and B+ and haven't shown up to class, then you get the worse grade.
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
No they shouldn't... They are intrinsically distracting to others.
In any event, it is my perogative as a prof to ensure that students are learning and not wasting my time or energy or the time or energy of their classmates.
If I took classes I would require a laptop due to my disability. Writing is hard for me and typing would be faster. I also would record the lecture for reference. How would you handle someone who is disabled and using a laptop is easier for them? I would also have to sit in the front row as I am legally blind.
it's like, i pay and i have the right to be a lazy-ass, so i'm not coming to class or challenging myself. i guess you have that right, but it's really stupid reasoning. i remember this one class that was 'open' to upper-level undergrads and it would have been a great opportunity for them...something like a 6 or 7 to 1 student-prof ratio, plus a classroom full of people interested in the topic...anyhow, every quarter 2-3 undergrads would sign up and inevetibaly not show by the 2nd week because it was 'hard'
Originally posted by Mac Write
If I took classes I would require a laptop due to my disability. Writing is hard for me and typing would be faster. I also would record the lecture for reference. How would you handle someone who is disabled and using a laptop is easier for them? I would also have to sit in the front row as I am legally blind.
A student would need to show pressing need for me to allow them to use laptops in the classroom. You don't need head phones to record lectures.
A disability is a pressing need.
Originally posted by Gene Clean
But it ain't a chick magnet either..
Sure it is...if it is green, has pictures of dead guys on it and folds nicely into the mans wallet!!!
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
As a graduate student in the sciences who hopes to be a prof in the not too distant future, I will forbid computers from my clasroom, unless I want groups or individuals to work on visualizing a problem.
As a graduate student myself, I think that's extremely misguided.
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
No they shouldn't... They are intrinsically distracting to others.
So you say, but not in my experience.
Originally posted by BRussell
I'm a prof, and I get probably 5% of students using computers. I can't imagine it would be a good idea for note-taking.
It is. I can type far faster than I can write by hand and I digest information far better when I read it than when I hear it. I can search them better, I keep them online and can access them from all of the machines I use. They are easier to read, search, scan and access even long after the class is over. Hell, I still use notes from undergrad that I typed up once I started using a computer. With lecture packs, slides, articles, etc posted online, printing everything out on paper is just plain stupid when I can annotate the slide or article or whatever directly on the machine.
I think it's unfortunate that some profs think they should tell students exactly how to learn, even if the prof's often misguided way (after all, many profs aren't really there because they are great "teachers") makes it more difficult for the student to digest and retain the information and concepts. It's counterproductive and serves no rational purpose. "It distracts others." Bullshit. Then again, my undergrad was surrounded by kids who were accustomed to being the smartest kids in the school back in high school, so YMMV, particularly if you teach somewhere with disinterested students.
Still, a prof who bans laptops in a normal classroom setting has control issues that he needs to work through. No doubt there are some situations where it detracts, but this blanket ban attitude shows that you, hardeeharhar, haven't really thought about it outside of your personal attitude toward it.
Also, as an academic librarian, I'm all too aware of how slow the broader academic community has been in getting up to speed with electronic tools in the classroom. I'm at one of the country's top schools and it's really only been in the past 2-3 years that tools like Blackboard have really picked up. Honestly, learn not to make the same mistake older academic librarians made: acting like luddites while the students' needs evolve past what you can provide, forcing you to play catch-up when you finally realize how wrong you were.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
With all due respect, if I'm contributing to your hefty salary as a professor, I don't give a sh*t if I'm wasting your time.
I always thought it was ridiculous when my professors would dock points from our grade for low attendance. Same argument. I'm paying for the class. I'll show up when and if I please.
You, as a professor, are getting paid to teach a class that I'm paying for and then do your research and studies outside of that. But hell, most professors don't even teach their own classes anymore. They get some graduate student to do it for them. Now I'm glad I'm paying your salary to not show up to class.
Higher education is screwed up and I'm glad I'm finished with it.
Um, if you want to use the "I'm paying your salary" argument...
My taxes pay the salaries of the police force; therefore, I should never be fined, ticketed or arrested for any infractions.
My tuition pays the professor's salary; therefore, I should get whatever grade in the class I want him to give me without putting in any work.
The funny thing about attendance... If attendance is 10% of you final grade, then you automatically can get 100% of that for *FREE*. All you have to do is show up. Hell, you can show up, go to sleep and still get that 10%. Yet people complain about it.
Originally posted by pyr3
Um, if you want to use the "I'm paying your salary" argument...
My taxes pay the salaries of the police force; therefore, I should never be fined, ticketed or arrested for any infractions.
That's not a good use of analogy and that's not what I'm saying.
Originally posted by CosmoNut
That's not a good use of analogy and that's not what I'm saying.
Point taken, but I don't think that the 'I pay your salary' argument holds much water. People use it too much, and feel that they are entitled to things because they 'pay someone's salary.' (retail outlets, restaurants, government jobs, service positions, etc)
I agree with you that his stance on laptops is antiquated and misguided, but I just don't like your argument against it. Sorry.