I don't think it's reasonable to constantly cite music capable phone sales as representing a direct challenge to the iPod. If the carrier is subsidizing the cost and the phone does some cool shit, why not?
That doesn't mean that everybody that gets one, or even most of the people that get one, then proceed to make that phone the center of their portable music habits.
It's like reasoning that since half a jillion phones with cameras got sold last year that the digital camera manufacturers have to do something to "respond" or they will find themselves edged out of the market.
Sure, camera phones will get better, but a dedicated device still offers amenities that a do everything device can't.
Don't compare two totally electronic devices to one that is optical, and mechanical as well.
A phone is nothing more than an electronic device with a computer, memory and a transceiver.
Adding capable music and video capabilities to one simply means adding more memory, and an additional program to the menu. Not a big leap.
The problem is not in getting it done, but in how it's done. If Apple, or someone else, can integrate these functions well, then the problem is solved!
Just because it hasn't been done well yet, doesn't mean that it CAN'T be done well.
Just like Apple adding video to the iPod. A bigger screen, one extra entry to the menu, and it was done. The internal changes are of no interest to the user, only the part they interact with.
Apple could add 3rd party games without making it any more complex. Just add one more item to the menu: GAMES.
The same thing with a phone. They add, Music, and Video.
Cameras are an entirely different concept. You can't increase the power of a camera phone to that of a stand alone camera. The decent (at least!) lens would double the size of the phone. That's why they use 1/4" chips in phones. Very small (and cheap) lenses. And there's far more to it than that.
It would be much easier to add a phone to the camera, than a good camera to a phone.
And who would want to hold their camera up to their ear?
Apple could add 3rd party games without making it any more complex. Just add one more item to the menu: GAMES.
Don't they have one already? for Solitaire or whatever.
I'm surprised they haven't added something like FlashLite or J2ME to allow 3rd party games like with most new phones today, but I guess they'd have to add a controller other than the wheel.
Hmm, perhaps that's next, a Dock Port game controller.
Don't they have one already? for Solitaire or whatever.
I'm surprised they haven't added something like FlashLite or J2ME to allow 3rd party games like with most new phones today, but I guess they'd have to add a controller other than the wheel.
Hmm, perhaps that's next, a Dock Port game controller.
My feeling is that they have a more powerful cpu installed, enough system RAM, and a bigger, more colorful screen, so they should add the API's for 3rd party developers. I would make a bet that all of the developers from both Palm and Windows Mobile would come stampeding over.
This would circularly add to iPod sales, add to the game sales, add to iPod sales, round and round.
We know this is a BIG, and untapped, market for Apple.
The scrollwheel is a fine controller. Buttons on the sides, top and bottom, center, plus the scroll?perfect for driving games!
I think that it is natural progression that the video playback is going to be better, however the approach of it is a bit divided. Here I think is the right solution to it.
Problem One: The screen is too small to really enjoy video. I agree with this, so a widescreen solution that allows the image to stretch to its full glory. This obviously solves this problem, but then you introduce the second problem.
Problem Two: The iPod is very easy to use with just one hand. This is very true of the current form factor. You can "feel" your way around your playlist, and navigate it with absolute ease. Having a "simulated" clickwheen on a touch screen will not give you this experience.
Possible solution: This is going to sound crazy, but it was mentioned before. Have the video playback on the back of the iPod. This allows for the front screen to be just like normal, however the back is used for video display ONLY. Now, obviously, there are some problems with having a second screen (smudges, battery life, etc.). However, by having it only for video, you solve some of the battery issues, and you don't have smudges because you are not controlling it from that screen.
This was just a passing thought, and I thought it deserved to be shared.
iPhone or iPod + Phone
Here is another great idea that needs to be shelved... for right now. The problem with cell phones is that they only work with a given network. That stinks, and it isn't the Apple Way. What I see Apple doing is waiting until the whole wireless web (WiFi 802.11 or WiMax) takes off big time. In other words, across all of the cities and what not. Maybe the could have a cell reciever in there, but that drains on battery life.
Why I say this is I could very easily see Apple partnering with Vonage, or doing their own VOIP thing (ala iChat?). This takes them away from the bloodbath that is known as the cell market, they can still interact with any phone (cell or otherwise), and they "look different".
Again, another outside the realms thought, but sometimes the best thoughts come from there.
iBook/MacBook
I keep on hearing about the costs, and what not. The discussion here should not be about the costs, but about the impact. Remember, while Apple is a Computer company, they are also a MARKETING company. The whole "Dual Core across our entire line" thing is too good to pass up right now. Not only that, but Apple computers are known for their longevity (sp?). The idea of putting a Single Core chip seems short-sighted at best. Even with the Education market, they want to keep them happy, and you do that by offering a product that will work for the next 3 years, not just for the next year.
Apple's strength is in its customer satisfaction. Apple knows its machines work well beyond their "intended" time period (1 year). That is their strength, and as such, they will continue to build upon that. That is the main reason why Apple will not use a Solo Core chip. Everything else between the two chips is just gravy.
The scrollwheel is a fine controller. Buttons on the sides, top and bottom, center, plus the scroll?perfect for driving games!
If they put Wipeout on it, I'm there. However, it needs a firebutton somewhere and I still would rather have an addon d-pad instead of ruining the built in wheel.
Here is another great idea that needs to be shelved... for right now. The problem with cell phones is that they only work with a given network. That stinks, and it isn't the Apple Way. What I see Apple doing is waiting until the whole wireless web (WiFi 802.11 or WiMax) takes off big time. In other words, across all of the cities and what not. Maybe the could have a cell reciever in there, but that drains on battery life.
Why I say this is I could very easily see Apple partnering with Vonage, or doing their own VOIP thing (ala iChat?). This takes them away from the bloodbath that is known as the cell market, they can still interact with any phone (cell or otherwise), and they "look different".
Again, another outside the realms thought, but sometimes the best thoughts come from there.
1) If a cell phone only work on one network its because it is locked to one network. Unlock it and problems are over. Or buy a phone for the full price.
2) A phone that depends on 802.11 will not be feasible in the next 20+ years if it has to realiable (whos access points should you use btw? All unprotected ones? Thats illegal). WiMax will not have good enough coverage for a looong time, even if the outlook is better than with 802.11.
3) I can´t see how building your phone on yet a new network shouldsolve any problems with connecting to multiple networks. An unlocked GSM phone works on thousands of networks around the world.
If they put Wipeout on it, I'm there. However, it needs a firebutton somewhere and I still would rather have an addon d-pad instead of ruining the built in wheel.
I don't disagree with the add-on concept. More *accessories* for the iPod. Instead of a mere 2,000 that we have now from the 250 companies, we can have a hundred more controllers from another 50 companies.
2) A phone that depends on 802.11 will not be feasible in the next 20+ years if it has to realiable (whos access points should you use btw? All unprotected ones? Thats illegal). WiMax will not have good enough coverage for a looong time, even if the outlook is better than with 802.11.
The new Nokia's use UMA. You can roam in and out of range of an 802.11a/b/g network and it switches without interruption from VOIP to GSM to 3G. These are out in the next few months. I'll probably end up getting one myself if the VOIP tarrifs are ok. I can't imagine they'll be as cheap as SIPGate but probably a lot more reliable and it means I now have to only have one phone instead of multiple phones. I have three phones - 2 work (SIP and mobile) + 1 personal mobile. And there's a landline but that only does broadband. I've not got a phone attached to it.
towards the end the guy is writing an sms drawing on the screen and the handwriting recognition WORKS, at amazing speed.
That's the same handwriting tech that's in the SE p990 and pretty much the same as in the P800, 900 and 910. I've a 910i now. The handwriting is good. I tried using my old Palm Vx today before I put it on eBay. I'd forgotten how bad Graffiti was and how poor the software was on the Palm.
Quote:
Originally posted by jindrich say again?: cellphone, 4GB nano style ipod, bluetooh cooordless hedphones, pda, opera browser, 3D games...
i'm selling my ipod 5G, my nokia and my snapshot digicamera (not my canon 20D) as soon as this w950 gets a camera on its back (probably a 3.2 mpx)
If it does wifi then it looks like my next phone too, otherwise I might think again. The p990 does but I want something more phone like, and less PDA like in looks.
excuze me for bringing this model again but this thing is the one who's going to finally kill 50% of apple's revenues (the ipod line).
That's a PDA, I doubt it'll make a dent in Apple's iPod market. Too complex, not user friendly, overly complex screens and menus. Not sleek and pretty.
I'm sure its good for the PDA market, but not the mp3 player market. You'll never, ever, ever, ever see an iPod killer. period! No other company can be as innovative as Apple. People just don't seem to get that!
Imagine you made a small, very thin device which clipped onto the back of the Nano ( kinda like the Compaq PDA sleeve devices but much thinner )
In the device you had a phone sim card and the mobile phone circuitry and that was all. The phone part would use the Nano's display and wheel for navigation.
When plugged in, you would be able to use the Nano to scroll through the lists of names just like a playlist, and hitting the play button would call them. Similarly, answering an incoming call would be a case of just hitting a button too.
The Nano's display would happily show text messages, and at a push you could reply to them by using the scroll button to go through letters to write a reply.
A new set of ear phones with a mic built in would be enough too.
It wouldn't need to be big - certainly no thicker than the nano itself and it would just perfect for my needs. I dont need all the bells and whistles - i just need to be able to make a simple call and receive a call.
Comments
Originally posted by dutch pear
I know what a phone can do that an iPod can't...
It's called sarcasm.
Originally posted by Gene Clean
It's called sarcasm.
it wasn't used in a correct context.
Originally posted by addabox
I don't think it's reasonable to constantly cite music capable phone sales as representing a direct challenge to the iPod. If the carrier is subsidizing the cost and the phone does some cool shit, why not?
That doesn't mean that everybody that gets one, or even most of the people that get one, then proceed to make that phone the center of their portable music habits.
It's like reasoning that since half a jillion phones with cameras got sold last year that the digital camera manufacturers have to do something to "respond" or they will find themselves edged out of the market.
Sure, camera phones will get better, but a dedicated device still offers amenities that a do everything device can't.
Don't compare two totally electronic devices to one that is optical, and mechanical as well.
A phone is nothing more than an electronic device with a computer, memory and a transceiver.
Adding capable music and video capabilities to one simply means adding more memory, and an additional program to the menu. Not a big leap.
The problem is not in getting it done, but in how it's done. If Apple, or someone else, can integrate these functions well, then the problem is solved!
Just because it hasn't been done well yet, doesn't mean that it CAN'T be done well.
Just like Apple adding video to the iPod. A bigger screen, one extra entry to the menu, and it was done. The internal changes are of no interest to the user, only the part they interact with.
Apple could add 3rd party games without making it any more complex. Just add one more item to the menu: GAMES.
The same thing with a phone. They add, Music, and Video.
Cameras are an entirely different concept. You can't increase the power of a camera phone to that of a stand alone camera. The decent (at least!) lens would double the size of the phone. That's why they use 1/4" chips in phones. Very small (and cheap) lenses. And there's far more to it than that.
It would be much easier to add a phone to the camera, than a good camera to a phone.
And who would want to hold their camera up to their ear?
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
it wasn't used in a correct context.
No way? That was the whole point. To use the Apple fanboi attitude while constantly getting shit wrong.
I realize I may have been too vague. It was a bad joke anyway.
Originally posted by melgross
Apple could add 3rd party games without making it any more complex. Just add one more item to the menu: GAMES.
Don't they have one already? for Solitaire or whatever.
I'm surprised they haven't added something like FlashLite or J2ME to allow 3rd party games like with most new phones today, but I guess they'd have to add a controller other than the wheel.
Hmm, perhaps that's next, a Dock Port game controller.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Don't they have one already? for Solitaire or whatever.
I'm surprised they haven't added something like FlashLite or J2ME to allow 3rd party games like with most new phones today, but I guess they'd have to add a controller other than the wheel.
Hmm, perhaps that's next, a Dock Port game controller.
My feeling is that they have a more powerful cpu installed, enough system RAM, and a bigger, more colorful screen, so they should add the API's for 3rd party developers. I would make a bet that all of the developers from both Palm and Windows Mobile would come stampeding over.
This would circularly add to iPod sales, add to the game sales, add to iPod sales, round and round.
We know this is a BIG, and untapped, market for Apple.
The scrollwheel is a fine controller. Buttons on the sides, top and bottom, center, plus the scroll?perfect for driving games!
iPod v6
I think that it is natural progression that the video playback is going to be better, however the approach of it is a bit divided. Here I think is the right solution to it.
Problem One: The screen is too small to really enjoy video. I agree with this, so a widescreen solution that allows the image to stretch to its full glory. This obviously solves this problem, but then you introduce the second problem.
Problem Two: The iPod is very easy to use with just one hand. This is very true of the current form factor. You can "feel" your way around your playlist, and navigate it with absolute ease. Having a "simulated" clickwheen on a touch screen will not give you this experience.
Possible solution: This is going to sound crazy, but it was mentioned before. Have the video playback on the back of the iPod. This allows for the front screen to be just like normal, however the back is used for video display ONLY. Now, obviously, there are some problems with having a second screen (smudges, battery life, etc.). However, by having it only for video, you solve some of the battery issues, and you don't have smudges because you are not controlling it from that screen.
This was just a passing thought, and I thought it deserved to be shared.
iPhone or iPod + Phone
Here is another great idea that needs to be shelved... for right now. The problem with cell phones is that they only work with a given network. That stinks, and it isn't the Apple Way. What I see Apple doing is waiting until the whole wireless web (WiFi 802.11 or WiMax) takes off big time. In other words, across all of the cities and what not. Maybe the could have a cell reciever in there, but that drains on battery life.
Why I say this is I could very easily see Apple partnering with Vonage, or doing their own VOIP thing (ala iChat?). This takes them away from the bloodbath that is known as the cell market, they can still interact with any phone (cell or otherwise), and they "look different".
Again, another outside the realms thought, but sometimes the best thoughts come from there.
iBook/MacBook
I keep on hearing about the costs, and what not. The discussion here should not be about the costs, but about the impact. Remember, while Apple is a Computer company, they are also a MARKETING company. The whole "Dual Core across our entire line" thing is too good to pass up right now. Not only that, but Apple computers are known for their longevity (sp?). The idea of putting a Single Core chip seems short-sighted at best. Even with the Education market, they want to keep them happy, and you do that by offering a product that will work for the next 3 years, not just for the next year.
Apple's strength is in its customer satisfaction. Apple knows its machines work well beyond their "intended" time period (1 year). That is their strength, and as such, they will continue to build upon that. That is the main reason why Apple will not use a Solo Core chip. Everything else between the two chips is just gravy.
Originally posted by melgross
The scrollwheel is a fine controller. Buttons on the sides, top and bottom, center, plus the scroll?perfect for driving games!
If they put Wipeout on it, I'm there. However, it needs a firebutton somewhere and I still would rather have an addon d-pad instead of ruining the built in wheel.
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
iPhone or iPod + Phone
Here is another great idea that needs to be shelved... for right now. The problem with cell phones is that they only work with a given network. That stinks, and it isn't the Apple Way. What I see Apple doing is waiting until the whole wireless web (WiFi 802.11 or WiMax) takes off big time. In other words, across all of the cities and what not. Maybe the could have a cell reciever in there, but that drains on battery life.
Why I say this is I could very easily see Apple partnering with Vonage, or doing their own VOIP thing (ala iChat?). This takes them away from the bloodbath that is known as the cell market, they can still interact with any phone (cell or otherwise), and they "look different".
Again, another outside the realms thought, but sometimes the best thoughts come from there.
1) If a cell phone only work on one network its because it is locked to one network. Unlock it and problems are over. Or buy a phone for the full price.
2) A phone that depends on 802.11 will not be feasible in the next 20+ years if it has to realiable (whos access points should you use btw? All unprotected ones? Thats illegal). WiMax will not have good enough coverage for a looong time, even if the outlook is better than with 802.11.
3) I can´t see how building your phone on yet a new network shouldsolve any problems with connecting to multiple networks. An unlocked GSM phone works on thousands of networks around the world.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
If they put Wipeout on it, I'm there. However, it needs a firebutton somewhere and I still would rather have an addon d-pad instead of ruining the built in wheel.
I don't disagree with the add-on concept. More *accessories* for the iPod. Instead of a mere 2,000 that we have now from the 250 companies, we can have a hundred more controllers from another 50 companies.
Bring 'em on, I say!
Originally posted by Anders
2) A phone that depends on 802.11 will not be feasible in the next 20+ years if it has to realiable (whos access points should you use btw? All unprotected ones? Thats illegal). WiMax will not have good enough coverage for a looong time, even if the outlook is better than with 802.11.
The new Nokia's use UMA. You can roam in and out of range of an 802.11a/b/g network and it switches without interruption from VOIP to GSM to 3G. These are out in the next few months. I'll probably end up getting one myself if the VOIP tarrifs are ok. I can't imagine they'll be as cheap as SIPGate but probably a lot more reliable and it means I now have to only have one phone instead of multiple phones. I have three phones - 2 work (SIP and mobile) + 1 personal mobile. And there's a landline but that only does broadband. I've not got a phone attached to it.
excuze me for bringing this model again but this thing is the one who's going to finally kill 50% of apple's revenues (the ipod line).
take a look of this short quiktime video:
sony w950 video
towards the end the guy is writing an sms drawing on the screen and the handwriting recognition WORKS, at amazing speed.
say again?: cellphone, 4GB nano style ipod, bluetooh cooordless hedphones, pda, opera browser, 3D games...
i'm selling my ipod 5G, my nokia and my snapshot digicamera (not my canon 20D) as soon as this w950 gets a camera on its back (probably a 3.2 mpx)
1 device (and ONLY ONE a/c adaptor to carry) to rule them all: sony w950
Originally posted by jindrich
excuze me for bringing this model again but this thing is the one who's going to finally kill 50% of apple's revenues (the ipod line).
take a look of this short quiktime video:
sony w950 video
towards the end the guy is writing an sms drawing on the screen and the handwriting recognition WORKS, at amazing speed.
say again?: cellphone, 4GB nano style ipod, bluetooh cooordless hedphones, pda, opera browser, 3D games...
i'm selling my ipod 5G, my nokia and my snapshot digicamera (not my canon 20D) as soon as this w950 gets a camera on its back (probably a 3.2 mpx)
1 device (and ONLY ONE a/c adaptor to carry) to rule them all: sony w950
good for you!
But I doubt that it will do as well as you think.
Originally posted by jindrich
towards the end the guy is writing an sms drawing on the screen and the handwriting recognition WORKS, at amazing speed.
That's the same handwriting tech that's in the SE p990 and pretty much the same as in the P800, 900 and 910. I've a 910i now. The handwriting is good. I tried using my old Palm Vx today before I put it on eBay. I'd forgotten how bad Graffiti was and how poor the software was on the Palm.
Originally posted by jindrich say again?: cellphone, 4GB nano style ipod, bluetooh cooordless hedphones, pda, opera browser, 3D games...
i'm selling my ipod 5G, my nokia and my snapshot digicamera (not my canon 20D) as soon as this w950 gets a camera on its back (probably a 3.2 mpx)
If it does wifi then it looks like my next phone too, otherwise I might think again. The p990 does but I want something more phone like, and less PDA like in looks.
Originally posted by jindrich
excuze me for bringing this model again but this thing is the one who's going to finally kill 50% of apple's revenues (the ipod line).
That's a PDA, I doubt it'll make a dent in Apple's iPod market. Too complex, not user friendly, overly complex screens and menus. Not sleek and pretty.
I'm sure its good for the PDA market, but not the mp3 player market. You'll never, ever, ever, ever see an iPod killer. period! No other company can be as innovative as Apple. People just don't seem to get that!
signed,
Apple fanboy
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
signed,
Apple fanboy
It's a good thing you told us, because, well, we never could have guessed!
Originally posted by Gene Clean
This is is teh Sexay
That image came down REAL slowly.
If that controller is also capable of scrolling, the way Apple's is, I'd say that it would be a problem.
I've been wondering why they haven't gotten patents on them.
Imagine you made a small, very thin device which clipped onto the back of the Nano ( kinda like the Compaq PDA sleeve devices but much thinner )
In the device you had a phone sim card and the mobile phone circuitry and that was all. The phone part would use the Nano's display and wheel for navigation.
When plugged in, you would be able to use the Nano to scroll through the lists of names just like a playlist, and hitting the play button would call them. Similarly, answering an incoming call would be a case of just hitting a button too.
The Nano's display would happily show text messages, and at a push you could reply to them by using the scroll button to go through letters to write a reply.
A new set of ear phones with a mic built in would be enough too.
It wouldn't need to be big - certainly no thicker than the nano itself and it would just perfect for my needs. I dont need all the bells and whistles - i just need to be able to make a simple call and receive a call.