Now for truly simplistic things, (like say social sciences (sorry!)) where it's A, then B, then C, and you're just regurgitating it for a grade, sure, a simple app might do the trick. But anything that requires abstract thinking, problem solving, or freeform design is going to suffer by being done on a laptop until the author *knows* the material.
In a lecture setting it's fine. There no doubt are times when typing doesn't work or isn't quick enough, like diagramming, brainstorming, problem solving, etc, which is why keeping a notebook handy is a good thing. But for a lecture with lots of information that can be typed, typing it is.
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Because outside of the university, you have to deal with information in whatever means it is given to you and not just in the manner with which you are most comfortable. Additionally, most of the time you have to use tools or processes that may not always line up with what you are most comfortable. It could be something as simple as using Windows instead of a Mac. It could be something like taking notes with pen instead of a laptop.
While this is true, we are talking about the university level. One would hope that students have developed enough and learned to take proper notes by this point so they can move on and learn how to do research. As far as I can remember every university class I've ever taken has come with the assumption that you already know how to take notes, but YMMV.
Quote:
While 4th grade and university aren't the same, the principles about educating should share some things in common.
But my criticism of har's attitude toward his role goes right to the heart of exactly what they don't share in common: that many professors are in their positions in spite of their inability to teach and inflated sense of self.
Quote:
Think about what you are suggesting. You are giving the student the ability to say that they have a right to not learn unless they are allowed to take certain actions within the classroom to accomodate their learning style.
No. I'm saying most professors aren't qualified to tell their students how to learn. In most situations they are only qualified to say how they learned it or, if the prof has been teaching for a long time, how most students learn it.
Quote:
I cannot demand to take notes on a laptop anymore than I could demand to listen to music during the lecture.
Of course you can.
The only "information processing skill" laptop note-taking is competing with in the classroom is paper note-taking, and taking notes on the computer doesn't make someone incapable of taking notes on paper. Either ban all note-taking or butt out of the issue of whether the student takes notes with a legal pad, laptop, palm pilot or whatever. If the task at hand is something like those mentioned by you, Kickaha, then obviously computers aren't helping even the best student, so telling students not to use the computer for that task wouldn't be a problem.
What would that prove? Someone like me would take good notes and get an A in the class either way, but with the computer it's just far less of a PITA, more comprehensive, takes less time and ends up being more useful to me in the long run.
I'm not sure I even understand your question - "what would that prove." It would prove whether it's a good idea to take notes on a computer, which is what we're talking about. I hope you'd agree that a systematic study is perhaps a tiny bit better [/sarcasm] than one guy's testimony on the matter.
I should also mention that academic libraries have gone through all of these issues of whether such and such digital format is actually good or not. First it was the whole electronic vs books, but now everyone has basically realized that for many fields, online access to information is a benefit. In more recent years the issue has been the "googlization" of research. The initial attitude was that this was the worst thing to happen to research, so librarians tried to ignore it or act like using search engines at all was a mistake. They've largely realized their mistake and we have now embraced online tools as one tool in the research process and instead taken steps to integrate it better with other library resources (google scholar's openurl resolver, for example, as well as modernizing online information tools). As someone who is on both sides, this has been nothing but positive and beneficial.
"What would that prove?" means "are those meaningful comparisons or measures?" My bet would be that good students stay good students and poor students stay poor students, but that good students who find computer notetaking more efficient and useful will find computer notetaking more efficient and useful while everyone else who continues taking notes with paper will do how they've always done.
Anyway, if you are putting your slides and/or articles and/or code examples and/or whatever online and have students do an increasing amount of research using online resources, as is now becoming the norm, you are going to have to have laptops in the classroom.
[B]In a lecture setting it's fine. There no doubt are times when typing doesn't work or isn't quick enough, like diagramming, brainstorming, problem solving, etc, which is why keeping a notebook handy is a good thing. But for a lecture with lots of information that can be typed, typing it is.
Sure, as I said, in some subjects just typing will do you fine. I've never run across one in my umpteen years of college, but I'm sure they exist. Somewhere.
Seriously, I can't really think of a single class, looking back, where just typing would have gotten me where I wanted to be. *shrug*
Oh, come on. Physics: yeah. CS: flowcharts and diagrams in some classes, lots of code in others, and endless lectures in others. English: long lectures and discussion. History: long lectures and discussions, with timelines (which are easy on a computer) and maps sometimes thrown in. Psychology: I wouldn't know.
I agree with everything you said up until this point except for the part about the blocking wifi.
Sure, as I said, in some subjects just typing will do you fine. I've never run across one in my umpteen years of college, but I'm sure they exist. Somewhere.
Seriously, I can't really think of a single class, looking back, where just typing would have gotten me where I wanted to be. *shrug*
Math: equations
Physics: equations, graphs
CS: flowcharts, class diagrams
English: literary subject relation diagrams
History: timelines, maps
Psychology: abstract graphs/charts
and so on...
I'd have to disagree with some of these.
Math: Definitely paper
Physics, Chemistry: Same - although we do use computers (spreadsheets, graphs etc), but mostly outside of class
CS: Laptop, added benefit of being able to run code
English, History: Laptop all the way, notes are mostly just text
The most common reason that I've seen is to access class materials that the prof posted online, sometimes only hours before the class session. Also, I take most of my notes in mediawiki installed on a server because it works better than any desktop app I've found and I use a number of different computers. Other times it's been useful to hit library or other online resources.
The more important question is "why not?" It seems like you guys either have a lot more bad and distracted students in your classes than I've seen at my schools (although the vast bulk of my undergrad and grad work has been at the same school), or maybe you are just blowing it out of proportion to try to support your argument. I don't know. But I'm willing to grant the former, particularly if you guys have all really had a number of students playing games in class. That just sounds totally outrageous to me. \
The most common reason that I've seen is to access class materials that the prof posted online, sometimes only hours before the class session. Also, I take most of my notes in mediawiki installed on a server because it works better than any desktop app I've found and I use a number of different computers. Other times it's been useful to hit library or other online resources.
The more important question is "why not?" It seems like you guys either have a lot more bad and distracted students in your classes than I've seen at my schools (although the vast bulk of my undergrad and grad work has been at the same school), or maybe you are just blowing it out of proportion to try to support your argument. I don't know. But I'm willing to grant the former, particularly if you guys have all really had a number of students playing games in class. That just sounds totally outrageous to me. \
It isn't simply about games, though I have seen plenty of that, but also IMing/email and general surfing. The fact of the matter is that in teaching the sciences, one does not depend on material that needs to be found on the internet during a lecture. That three seconds of google searching and ignoring the prof certainly inhibits learning.
I'd be all for a closed WiFi point - access to the materials, but nothing outside of it.
Now stop and think about how *inane* it is to have to treat legal adults like kindergartners because they can't seem to control themselves... and yet that seems to be the only solution.
WiFi for class tool access, but block everything else. I could live with that. Make it a tool, not a toy, and the problems go away.
Physics, Chemistry: Same - although we do use computers (spreadsheets, graphs etc), but mostly outside of class
CS: Laptop, added benefit of being able to run code
English, History: Laptop all the way, notes are mostly just text
Psych: Never taken it
I teach CS... I've never seen the point of running code *in class*. If your prof is having you do that, then he's wasting your time having you do something you could do out of class, and not using his skills and giving you access to his expertise. Running code is for lab sessions, which are a whole other ball of wax.
I guess I'm just a much more visual person than most then, because my English and History notes are covered with diagrams relating blocks of information, drawing (literally) analogies and connections between important pieces of info, etc. Once it's all mapped out, then a clean reworking in an electronic environment is *great*... but again, I'm only talking about taking notes in a lecture setting. Maybe I just had dynamic teachers, but the lectures were anything but something that lent itself to linear text.
I'd be all for a closed WiFi point - access to the materials, but nothing outside of it.
Now stop and think about how *inane* it is to have to treat legal adults like kindergartners because they can't seem to control themselves... and yet that seems to be the only solution.
WiFi for class tool access, but block everything else. I could live with that. Make it a tool, not a toy, and the problems go away.
Why not just bluetooth the files from the prof's computers to the students, if materials need to be transfered?
Of course, I'm of the mind to tell them "Download these files for next class" the same way that I'd tell them "Bring your book to class" and call it good. *shrug*
It isn't simply about games, though I have seen plenty of that, but also IMing/email and general surfing.
That's outrageous. I've taken undergrad classes for personal interest as recently as last summer and have not seen that at all, and obviously nothing remotely like that exists in graduate classes. I'm really having a hard time imagining that my school is that dramatically different from your school, but maybe it is. I don't know.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
I'd be all for a closed WiFi point - access to the materials, but nothing outside of it....WiFi for class tool access, but block everything else. I could live with that. Make it a tool, not a toy, and the problems go away.
Agreed.
Quote:
I guess I'm just a much more visual person than most then, because my English and History notes are covered with diagrams relating blocks of information, drawing (literally) analogies and connections between important pieces of info, etc. ...
Different strokes for different folks. Anyway, imagine if you were in class and the prof said you couldn't use diagrams and charts for your notes. It's not like you will stop being a good student, but it would be an unnecessary PITA, right?
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Why not just bluetooth the files from the prof's computers to the students, if materials need to be transfered?
Because the docs are posted online. Because many folks don't have bluetooth (my titanium powerbook doesn't). In some fields *many* profs still have a hard enough time logging into their own computers, talking about transferring files through bluetooth will give them a seizure.
To be honest, I still think posting notes online is a cop-out from the prof's POV. So many profs use it as a *REPLACEMENT* for a lecture, so they can breeze through it half-asleep.
And don't get me started on PowerPoint. If you can condense your lecture to bulleted lists that the students can read offline and get just as much out of, you're not doing your damned job. TEACH for god's sake, don't spew it out at them and expect them to just regurgitate it.
I hate bullet lists. My crowning achievement was my dissertation defense.
60 minutes.
90 slides.
Not a single bullet point list.
It made sense, it flowed, and it was highly commented on afterwards. I broke every rule of 'good' PowerPoint presentations, and it went beautifully.
Anyway. Posting notes online is not always a benefit to the students.
I'm glad to hear you say that, because I believe PowerPoint/Keynote is of dubious educational value. They're great for professional presentations, where you control the show and get questions at the end. But it's just so inflexible for a class. It's certainly easier to teach with PowerPoint, because your lecture is predetermined, but easier on the professor doesn't mean more educational. I actually had a comment on a student evaluation last year that said something like "he should use PowerPoint, because then students really LEARN," with LEARN underlined. Hmmm.
I'm glad to hear you say that, because I believe PowerPoint/Keynote is of dubious educational value. They're great for professional presentations, where you control the show and get questions at the end. But it's just so inflexible for a class. It's certainly easier to teach with PowerPoint, because your lecture is predetermined, but easier on the professor doesn't mean more educational. I actually had a comment on a student evaluation last year that said something like "he should use PowerPoint, because then students really LEARN," with LEARN underlined. Hmmm.
I agree, however, to be the devils advocate for a second, students probably get used to certain styles of teaching... If their high school teachers used powerpoint to convey information, then they will probably learn better with powerpoint presentations for the rest of their lives. However, to go back to being me, students should be adaptable in their learning styles... the onus of learning should be on the student, as the prof cannot reasonably cowtow to all the students in the class room.
That said, powerpoint sucks a monkey's left nut. Even professional talks are 90% failures due to power point misuse...
As I have said, not here necessarily, use of computers aids in graphical demonstrations, but it is no more efficient at conveying verbalized facts than overheads or chalkboards.
Sure, as I said, in some subjects just typing will do you fine. I've never run across one in my umpteen years of college, but I'm sure they exist. Somewhere.
Seriously, I can't really think of a single class, looking back, where just typing would have gotten me where I wanted to be. *shrug*
Math: equations
Physics: equations, graphs
CS: flowcharts, class diagrams
English: literary subject relation diagrams
History: timelines, maps
Psychology: abstract graphs/charts
and so on...
Just a followup, I talked to someone in the psychology dept about this today and she said, "Of course the kind of notes people take for most psych courses could be done on a computer. That's like saying you can't take history notes on a computer." It gave me a good laugh.
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Posting notes online doesn't help people learn the material.
While what you mean here is unclear, the fact is that in most classes, supplimentary materials posted online are not only useful, they are crucial to the class. If they weren't, whole departments of libraries and university IT departments that have existed for decades wouldn't exist. You are just wrong here. End of story.
Comments
Originally posted by Kickaha
Now for truly simplistic things, (like say social sciences (sorry!)) where it's A, then B, then C, and you're just regurgitating it for a grade, sure, a simple app might do the trick. But anything that requires abstract thinking, problem solving, or freeform design is going to suffer by being done on a laptop until the author *knows* the material.
In a lecture setting it's fine. There no doubt are times when typing doesn't work or isn't quick enough, like diagramming, brainstorming, problem solving, etc, which is why keeping a notebook handy is a good thing. But for a lecture with lots of information that can be typed, typing it is.
Originally posted by trumptman
Because outside of the university, you have to deal with information in whatever means it is given to you and not just in the manner with which you are most comfortable. Additionally, most of the time you have to use tools or processes that may not always line up with what you are most comfortable. It could be something as simple as using Windows instead of a Mac. It could be something like taking notes with pen instead of a laptop.
While this is true, we are talking about the university level. One would hope that students have developed enough and learned to take proper notes by this point so they can move on and learn how to do research. As far as I can remember every university class I've ever taken has come with the assumption that you already know how to take notes, but YMMV.
While 4th grade and university aren't the same, the principles about educating should share some things in common.
But my criticism of har's attitude toward his role goes right to the heart of exactly what they don't share in common: that many professors are in their positions in spite of their inability to teach and inflated sense of self.
Think about what you are suggesting. You are giving the student the ability to say that they have a right to not learn unless they are allowed to take certain actions within the classroom to accomodate their learning style.
No. I'm saying most professors aren't qualified to tell their students how to learn. In most situations they are only qualified to say how they learned it or, if the prof has been teaching for a long time, how most students learn it.
I cannot demand to take notes on a laptop anymore than I could demand to listen to music during the lecture.
Of course you can.
The only "information processing skill" laptop note-taking is competing with in the classroom is paper note-taking, and taking notes on the computer doesn't make someone incapable of taking notes on paper. Either ban all note-taking or butt out of the issue of whether the student takes notes with a legal pad, laptop, palm pilot or whatever. If the task at hand is something like those mentioned by you, Kickaha, then obviously computers aren't helping even the best student, so telling students not to use the computer for that task wouldn't be a problem.
Originally posted by giant
What would that prove? Someone like me would take good notes and get an A in the class either way, but with the computer it's just far less of a PITA, more comprehensive, takes less time and ends up being more useful to me in the long run.
I'm not sure I even understand your question - "what would that prove." It would prove whether it's a good idea to take notes on a computer, which is what we're talking about. I hope you'd agree that a systematic study is perhaps a tiny bit better [/sarcasm] than one guy's testimony on the matter.
Originally posted by BRussell
I'm not sure I even understand your question
"What would that prove?" means "are those meaningful comparisons or measures?" My bet would be that good students stay good students and poor students stay poor students, but that good students who find computer notetaking more efficient and useful will find computer notetaking more efficient and useful while everyone else who continues taking notes with paper will do how they've always done.
Anyway, if you are putting your slides and/or articles and/or code examples and/or whatever online and have students do an increasing amount of research using online resources, as is now becoming the norm, you are going to have to have laptops in the classroom.
Originally posted by giant
[B]In a lecture setting it's fine. There no doubt are times when typing doesn't work or isn't quick enough, like diagramming, brainstorming, problem solving, etc, which is why keeping a notebook handy is a good thing. But for a lecture with lots of information that can be typed, typing it is.
Sure, as I said, in some subjects just typing will do you fine. I've never run across one in my umpteen years of college, but I'm sure they exist. Somewhere.
Seriously, I can't really think of a single class, looking back, where just typing would have gotten me where I wanted to be. *shrug*
Math: equations
Physics: equations, graphs
CS: flowcharts, class diagrams
English: literary subject relation diagrams
History: timelines, maps
Psychology: abstract graphs/charts
and so on...
Originally posted by Kickaha
Math: equations
Physics: equations, graphs
CS: flowcharts, class diagrams
English: literary subject relation diagrams
History: timelines, maps
Psychology: abstract graphs/charts
and so on...
Oh, come on. Physics: yeah. CS: flowcharts and diagrams in some classes, lots of code in others, and endless lectures in others. English: long lectures and discussion. History: long lectures and discussions, with timelines (which are easy on a computer) and maps sometimes thrown in. Psychology: I wouldn't know.
I agree with everything you said up until this point except for the part about the blocking wifi.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Sure, as I said, in some subjects just typing will do you fine. I've never run across one in my umpteen years of college, but I'm sure they exist. Somewhere.
Seriously, I can't really think of a single class, looking back, where just typing would have gotten me where I wanted to be. *shrug*
Math: equations
Physics: equations, graphs
CS: flowcharts, class diagrams
English: literary subject relation diagrams
History: timelines, maps
Psychology: abstract graphs/charts
and so on...
I'd have to disagree with some of these.
Math: Definitely paper
Physics, Chemistry: Same - although we do use computers (spreadsheets, graphs etc), but mostly outside of class
CS: Laptop, added benefit of being able to run code
English, History: Laptop all the way, notes are mostly just text
Psych: Never taken it
Originally posted by giant
I agree with everything you said up until this point except for the part about the blocking wifi.
Why would anyone need wifi in a classroom?
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Why would anyone need wifi in a classroom?
The most common reason that I've seen is to access class materials that the prof posted online, sometimes only hours before the class session. Also, I take most of my notes in mediawiki installed on a server because it works better than any desktop app I've found and I use a number of different computers. Other times it's been useful to hit library or other online resources.
The more important question is "why not?" It seems like you guys either have a lot more bad and distracted students in your classes than I've seen at my schools (although the vast bulk of my undergrad and grad work has been at the same school), or maybe you are just blowing it out of proportion to try to support your argument. I don't know. But I'm willing to grant the former, particularly if you guys have all really had a number of students playing games in class. That just sounds totally outrageous to me.
Originally posted by giant
The most common reason that I've seen is to access class materials that the prof posted online, sometimes only hours before the class session. Also, I take most of my notes in mediawiki installed on a server because it works better than any desktop app I've found and I use a number of different computers. Other times it's been useful to hit library or other online resources.
The more important question is "why not?" It seems like you guys either have a lot more bad and distracted students in your classes than I've seen at my schools (although the vast bulk of my undergrad and grad work has been at the same school), or maybe you are just blowing it out of proportion to try to support your argument. I don't know. But I'm willing to grant the former, particularly if you guys have all really had a number of students playing games in class. That just sounds totally outrageous to me.
It isn't simply about games, though I have seen plenty of that, but also IMing/email and general surfing. The fact of the matter is that in teaching the sciences, one does not depend on material that needs to be found on the internet during a lecture. That three seconds of google searching and ignoring the prof certainly inhibits learning.
Now stop and think about how *inane* it is to have to treat legal adults like kindergartners because they can't seem to control themselves... and yet that seems to be the only solution.
WiFi for class tool access, but block everything else. I could live with that. Make it a tool, not a toy, and the problems go away.
Originally posted by mynamehere
I'd have to disagree with some of these.
Math: Definitely paper
Physics, Chemistry: Same - although we do use computers (spreadsheets, graphs etc), but mostly outside of class
CS: Laptop, added benefit of being able to run code
English, History: Laptop all the way, notes are mostly just text
Psych: Never taken it
I teach CS... I've never seen the point of running code *in class*. If your prof is having you do that, then he's wasting your time having you do something you could do out of class, and not using his skills and giving you access to his expertise. Running code is for lab sessions, which are a whole other ball of wax.
I guess I'm just a much more visual person than most then, because my English and History notes are covered with diagrams relating blocks of information, drawing (literally) analogies and connections between important pieces of info, etc. Once it's all mapped out, then a clean reworking in an electronic environment is *great*... but again, I'm only talking about taking notes in a lecture setting. Maybe I just had dynamic teachers, but the lectures were anything but something that lent itself to linear text.
Well except for Sumerian, but then it was A or B.
Originally posted by Kickaha
I'd be all for a closed WiFi point - access to the materials, but nothing outside of it.
Now stop and think about how *inane* it is to have to treat legal adults like kindergartners because they can't seem to control themselves... and yet that seems to be the only solution.
WiFi for class tool access, but block everything else. I could live with that. Make it a tool, not a toy, and the problems go away.
Why not just bluetooth the files from the prof's computers to the students, if materials need to be transfered?
Of course, I'm of the mind to tell them "Download these files for next class" the same way that I'd tell them "Bring your book to class" and call it good. *shrug*
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
It isn't simply about games, though I have seen plenty of that, but also IMing/email and general surfing.
That's outrageous. I've taken undergrad classes for personal interest as recently as last summer and have not seen that at all, and obviously nothing remotely like that exists in graduate classes. I'm really having a hard time imagining that my school is that dramatically different from your school, but maybe it is. I don't know.
Originally posted by Kickaha
I'd be all for a closed WiFi point - access to the materials, but nothing outside of it....WiFi for class tool access, but block everything else. I could live with that. Make it a tool, not a toy, and the problems go away.
Agreed.
I guess I'm just a much more visual person than most then, because my English and History notes are covered with diagrams relating blocks of information, drawing (literally) analogies and connections between important pieces of info, etc. ...
Different strokes for different folks. Anyway, imagine if you were in class and the prof said you couldn't use diagrams and charts for your notes. It's not like you will stop being a good student, but it would be an unnecessary PITA, right?
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Why not just bluetooth the files from the prof's computers to the students, if materials need to be transfered?
Because the docs are posted online. Because many folks don't have bluetooth (my titanium powerbook doesn't). In some fields *many* profs still have a hard enough time logging into their own computers, talking about transferring files through bluetooth will give them a seizure.
And don't get me started on PowerPoint. If you can condense your lecture to bulleted lists that the students can read offline and get just as much out of, you're not doing your damned job. TEACH for god's sake, don't spew it out at them and expect them to just regurgitate it.
I hate bullet lists. My crowning achievement was my dissertation defense.
60 minutes.
90 slides.
Not a single bullet point list.
It made sense, it flowed, and it was highly commented on afterwards. I broke every rule of 'good' PowerPoint presentations, and it went beautifully.
Anyway. Posting notes online is not always a benefit to the students.
They are really that vapid.
Posting notes online doesn't help people learn the material.
Originally posted by Kickaha
And don't get me started on PowerPoint.
I'm glad to hear you say that, because I believe PowerPoint/Keynote is of dubious educational value. They're great for professional presentations, where you control the show and get questions at the end. But it's just so inflexible for a class. It's certainly easier to teach with PowerPoint, because your lecture is predetermined, but easier on the professor doesn't mean more educational. I actually had a comment on a student evaluation last year that said something like "he should use PowerPoint, because then students really LEARN," with LEARN underlined. Hmmm.
Originally posted by BRussell
I'm glad to hear you say that, because I believe PowerPoint/Keynote is of dubious educational value. They're great for professional presentations, where you control the show and get questions at the end. But it's just so inflexible for a class. It's certainly easier to teach with PowerPoint, because your lecture is predetermined, but easier on the professor doesn't mean more educational. I actually had a comment on a student evaluation last year that said something like "he should use PowerPoint, because then students really LEARN," with LEARN underlined. Hmmm.
I agree, however, to be the devils advocate for a second, students probably get used to certain styles of teaching... If their high school teachers used powerpoint to convey information, then they will probably learn better with powerpoint presentations for the rest of their lives. However, to go back to being me, students should be adaptable in their learning styles... the onus of learning should be on the student, as the prof cannot reasonably cowtow to all the students in the class room.
That said, powerpoint sucks a monkey's left nut. Even professional talks are 90% failures due to power point misuse...
As I have said, not here necessarily, use of computers aids in graphical demonstrations, but it is no more efficient at conveying verbalized facts than overheads or chalkboards.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Sure, as I said, in some subjects just typing will do you fine. I've never run across one in my umpteen years of college, but I'm sure they exist. Somewhere.
Seriously, I can't really think of a single class, looking back, where just typing would have gotten me where I wanted to be. *shrug*
Math: equations
Physics: equations, graphs
CS: flowcharts, class diagrams
English: literary subject relation diagrams
History: timelines, maps
Psychology: abstract graphs/charts
and so on...
Just a followup, I talked to someone in the psychology dept about this today and she said, "Of course the kind of notes people take for most psych courses could be done on a computer. That's like saying you can't take history notes on a computer." It gave me a good laugh.
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Posting notes online doesn't help people learn the material.
While what you mean here is unclear, the fact is that in most classes, supplimentary materials posted online are not only useful, they are crucial to the class. If they weren't, whole departments of libraries and university IT departments that have existed for decades wouldn't exist. You are just wrong here. End of story.