Market share is actually extremely hard to gain (or gain back) in a mature market. If you were expecting a 5% or 10% jump in 5 years, you were expecting the impossible.
Yes, I'm crazy in expecting the impossible and even crazier to go against "what can you expect because..." type agreements. Or am I?
When a consumer wants to buy a computer, how does he decide on what to get? This isn't you or me or someone in the IT world, I'm talking about the other guys, yes the other 90% or 85% or whatever it might be, it's a large number. How does he know about this computer that has no viruses, no spyware, is easier to use, comes with all types of nifty applications for editing your videos, music, photos. Just where does he get this information?
Face it, Apple sucks at advertising the Mac OS. Actually Apple is at an even lower level because before you can suck at something you have to first do it. This needs to change and this is what I'm hoping apple would realize. If Earthlink can afford to advertise so can Apple, Come on! Again, I'm talking about advertising the Operating System, not the Mac, but the Mac Operating System. People need become aware of the Operating System.
Yesterday I see this commercial. At first I thought it was an Intel's commercial as it went on and on about Intel until at the end it says something like the Mac now uses Intel. I'm thinking, "Great, I'll just have go out and get one now because it uses Intel." How much more stupid can you get about adverting the Mac OS!!!
And MS just continues taking a piece of our OS, piece by piece. Yes, it IS Apple's fault because they don't A d v e r t i s e OS X.
Yes, I'm crazy in expecting the impossible and even crazier to go against "what can you expect because..." type agreements. Or am I?
....
You totally missed kim kap sol's point. It is not a matter of marketing. It is a matter of numbers. He is telling you that a mature market gives you little, if any, opportunity to move marketshare numbers. It would be an interesting exercise to run a simulation of opportunities available for Apple in the current computer market. To significantly change market dynamics will require a paradigm shift.
Windows 2000 smokes any pre-X MacOS. OS9 and earlier had sucky memory management and the multitasking blew as well. I never would've bought a Mac if it weren't for OS X.
YES! How so many forgot on this board that before BSD -> NEXT -> OSX, Mac OS could be stopped in it's track with simply holding down the friggen mouse button. All this talking about others copying so called intellectual property, who cares! As long as the outcome is beneficial for the consumer, besides I remember seeing a Alpha release of Long Horn and it had widget thingies before OSX Tiger was released.
I think all of you Apple users just want to be like me with my Next Cube running at an impressive 33MHz. Aaaahh Next! Just for giggles I fired it up the other day, holy crap it's amazing how much OSX is like OpenStep.
You totally missed kim kap sol's point. It is not a matter of marketing. It is a matter of numbers. He is telling you that a mature market gives you little, if any, opportunity to move marketshare numbers. It would be an interesting exercise to run a simulation of opportunities available for Apple in the current computer market. To significantly change market dynamics will require a paradigm shift.
No I didn't. I do see that most can't conceive that the Mac CAN increase market share unless some preconceived condition is in place first, or that it will take years and years. This is a false datum. The "why" is lack of marketing. That's all. I also see something very strange about Apple and the Mac OS, something that has been observable ever since the beginning, and it's this: It seems as though Apple thinks that a great product by it's very greatness will sell itself. This arrogance is the cause of low market share today.
With good marketing you can sell anything. There is NO excuse for Apples' low market share. Period. And that is what I'm telling you.
You totally missed kim kap sol's point. It is not a matter of marketing. It is a matter of numbers. He is telling you that a mature market gives you little, if any, opportunity to move marketshare numbers. It would be an interesting exercise to run a simulation of opportunities available for Apple in the current computer market. To significantly change market dynamics will require a paradigm shift.
What do Gm, Toyota, Honda, Ford, Dodge, Pepsi, CocaCola, Coors, Miller etc. etc. etc. etc. etc, have in common?
Market share can be expanded, even in a mature market. All it takes is $$$$. Last I heard Apple had a bundle of cash. I agree, their marketeing stinks. Has for years. I think it has hurt them. But then again, I'm not a marketing genius.
What do Gm, Toyota, Honda, Ford, Dodge, Pepsi, CocaCola, Coors, Miller etc. etc. etc. etc. etc, have in common?
Market share can be expanded, even in a mature market. All it takes is $$$$. Last I heard Apple had a bundle of cash. I agree, their marketeing stinks. Has for years. I think it has hurt them. But then again, I'm not a marketing genius.
Funny you should mention both Pepsi and CocaCola as market share gainers, I always thought they were competitors on same field, so they gained market share from each other????
At the moment OSXs best marketing is done by Microsoft with all it's problems, and current mac users telling there is an alternative. You can't get that kind of GOOD publicity with commercials.
Plus Apple has done wonderful job with product placement, just watch tv and you can't avoid seeing those beautiful Apple computers. Magazines to day also have way more Apple releted articles that Apples market share would suggest.
Apple has actually become a player in the field again, what more can expect from a company that went next to extinction only few years ago?
Apple has actually become a player in the field again, what more can expect from a company that went next to extinction only few years ago?
Not really. Not yet anyway and Apple is letting this opportunity go by. Apple is seen as the good guy and is getting lots of attention, but good guys also need to show that they can handle the job. Apple isn't doing that. You don't see Apple marketing Mac OS X to the masses. Apple sits, hoping that by some magical phenomena, people will switch to the Mac OS X without Apple itself doing any major marketing! Meanwhile MS is recuperating and getting ready to once again spread OS superiority FUD with Vista. I'm so sick of such crap, that I'm now pointing the finger at Apple. I'm adamant about this. If Apple is not interested in planting the Mac OS once and for all into the market, then let somebody else do it because Apple itself by lack of action is letting Windows become more and more the standard and harder and harder to break free from.
Apple has their marketing heads (the little marketing that Apple actually does at that) stuck on hardware, hardware, hardware and the OS is juts a nice thing that comes it. How blind and stupid can Apple be and continue to be??!!!!! The hardware game is over Apple. It never was worth anything compared to the software game in the first place. Software commands hardware, get it straight already Apple. Please! Thank you.
Apple has their marketing heads (the little marketing that Apple actually does at that) stuck on hardware, hardware, hardware and the OS is juts a nice thing that comes it. How blind and stupid can Apple be and continue to be??!!!!! The hardware game is over Apple. It never was worth anything compared to the software game in the first place. Software commands hardware, get it straight already Apple. Please! Thank you.
Yeah, Apple didn't learn that the name of the game is software when Microsoft told them this decades ago, they didn't learn when they were competing with the clones, and they still haven't learned. People don't go to the apple store for shiny cases, they go for OSX. They can't seem to look past the $ipod$.
funny thing is that "gadgets" was apple's original term for the dashboard-widgets (IIRC). i remember that there even has been some original documentation around when tiger was released, in which they still were referred to as "gadgets".
Yes, such as the WWDC 2004 release of Mac OS X Tiger as seen here.
I was reading through MS's "blog," and thouroughly enjoying the obvious Mac users' replies to it. What PowerComputing said in '97 was true, "We're fighting back for Mac," only without them. I also enjoy reading all you guys' comments.
Apple has their marketing heads (the little marketing that Apple actually does at that) stuck on hardware, hardware, hardware and the OS is juts a nice thing that comes it. How blind and stupid can Apple be and continue to be??!!!!! The hardware game is over Apple. It never was worth anything compared to the software game in the first place. Software commands hardware, get it straight already Apple. Please! Thank you.
Apple has done quite a bit with product placement. However, that is not the name of the game. Ask your friends, relatives, etc. what they primarily use a computer for. You will get one standard answer: the Internet. Whether it is for E-mail, surfing the web, posting pictures, etc. it is all about the Web.
Apple does need to make a marketing push. However, the OS will not sell nearly as much as a software product will. Why? Because an application or suite of applications is a focused piece of software. The one thing that makes the Mac stand out from the rest is iLife. You can't find ANYTHING out there that has the quality, ease of use, and functionality of iLife for as cheap as it is. Apple already has the product, now they need to advertise it. They CAN make TV or (*gasp!*) Radio ads with that.
Now, print ads are a place to put stuff about the OS. However, you need to focus on one PART of the OS. For instance, have one ad talk about iChat, and the ability to easily video conference or audio conference with people. Or what about ease of setup? Or how about safety on the web? There are several different topics that can make the OS case, but that case will only be made in print, not on the TV or Radio.
Right. Software is what Apple needs tell people about. Absolutely. But what sets it apart from Windows? Mac OS X needs to be the driving force behind it, you know, "this awesome software is run by Mac OS X" and not Windows. Educate the market that there's another OS besides Windows that does the same if not better. One could see an add showing off one of the iLife Apps. The ad would finish with "Run by Mac OS X." We would have an ad for each of the iLife apps all ending with "Run by Mac OS X." Mac OS X, Mac OS X, drive it home, you know?! Get Mac OS X inside people's heads.
When people think about MS they think about Windows, when people think about Apple they think about beautiful expensive computers. They never associate Apple with an OS. When I say people, I mean the consumer out there, not you and I.
This is where Apple is making the mistake. Apple needs to re-educate the market so that when they think about Apple they also think about Mac OS X. An OPERATING SYSTEM that is the ALTERNATIVE to Windows. Consumers do not see Apple as a company that makes software. They really don't, if you don't believe me go out there into the streets and ask if they know what Mac OS X is. You will be dumbfounded to find out that most have no idea that the Mac has an entirely different OS to Windows. Whose fault is it for this ignorance? That's right, Apple.
Apple could make such an impact by advertise the software on TV. Put it out there little by little. All Apple needs to do is show it, they don't have to explain it, just keep showing it off and tell a little about it. Make different ads each telling some tidbit about the app and showing it in action. Fun, simple ads showing the product in action. I guaranty you that if Apple did this and kept doing it, the consumer would realize they don't have to use Windows to do what they need to do. It's so attainable and easy given that consumers are fed up with Windows, arghhhh! And two, that they have no idea that there IS an alternative to Windows! So attainable and easy to do that one can only get one conclusion. Apple does not want it.
When people think about MS they think about Windows, when people think about Apple they think about beautiful expensive computers. They never associate Apple with an OS. When I say people, I mean the consumer out there, not you and I.
So attainable and easy to do that one can only get one conclusion. Apple does not want it. [/B]
It makes me wonder what kind of concessions the evil empire got when bill gates dumped what was it, a couple of hundred million dollars, in apple during the 90's to keep it afloat.
Wouldn't it be perfect if at the end of a 30-second demo of an iApp, the screen gave the URL http://www.apple.com/retail and the announcer simply said "See for yourself at your nearby Apple Store today!"
well, look on the bright side... seems like the vast majority of microsoft's gadgets are a.) ugly as sin and b.) hook into *gasp* msn services.
i mean, they certainly look like they're trying to ape the dashboard and its functionality. i think the thing that annoys me the most is that i work with at least a few people who, once they catch wind of this will have the gall to say to me "why can't apple do something cool like this? huh?" at which point, i may have to club them with my ipod.
Comments
Originally posted by Whyatt Thrash
Dashboard was stolen from Konfabulator.
iWork is a copy of MS Office.
It's not like whatever they "stole" was original to begin with...
iWork is not a copy of MS Office.
Pages.app is a throwback to NeXTSTEP LightHouse Design tools and other Word processing/DTP applications available on NeXTSTEP.
Keynote.app is the next evolutionary step of Concurrence.app which is a part of LightHouse Design tools.
LightHouse was purchased by Sun back in the mid 90s.
Some of the main developers on this productivity suite now work at Apple.
If you have an older PC and a copy of Openstep enjoy:
http://www.peak.org/~luomat/articles...ighthouse.html
The following author and I are on the same page:
http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.ph...e_in_iwork_07/
Levenz keeps a good list of familiar looking screenshots:
http://www.levenez.com/NeXTSTEP/meApps.html
A Project Manager application that today KDE and GNOME are trying to copy:
http://www.levenez.com/NeXTSTEP/TaskMaster.gif
NeXTSTEP Pages:
http://www.levenez.com/NeXTSTEP/Pages.jpg
NeXTSTEP OpenWrite:
http://www.levenez.com/NeXTSTEP/OpenWrite.gif
NeXTSTEP Diagram!2 : aka Omnigroup's ....
http://www.levenez.com/NeXTSTEP/Diagram.gif
Steve's personal favorite:
http://www.levenez.com/NeXTSTEP/Concurrence.gif
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Market share is actually extremely hard to gain (or gain back) in a mature market. If you were expecting a 5% or 10% jump in 5 years, you were expecting the impossible.
Yes, I'm crazy in expecting the impossible and even crazier to go against "what can you expect because..." type agreements. Or am I?
When a consumer wants to buy a computer, how does he decide on what to get? This isn't you or me or someone in the IT world, I'm talking about the other guys, yes the other 90% or 85% or whatever it might be, it's a large number. How does he know about this computer that has no viruses, no spyware, is easier to use, comes with all types of nifty applications for editing your videos, music, photos. Just where does he get this information?
Face it, Apple sucks at advertising the Mac OS. Actually Apple is at an even lower level because before you can suck at something you have to first do it. This needs to change and this is what I'm hoping apple would realize. If Earthlink can afford to advertise so can Apple, Come on! Again, I'm talking about advertising the Operating System, not the Mac, but the Mac Operating System. People need become aware of the Operating System.
Yesterday I see this commercial. At first I thought it was an Intel's commercial as it went on and on about Intel until at the end it says something like the Mac now uses Intel. I'm thinking, "Great, I'll just have go out and get one now because it uses Intel." How much more stupid can you get about adverting the Mac OS!!!
And MS just continues taking a piece of our OS, piece by piece. Yes, it IS Apple's fault because they don't A d v e r t i s e OS X.
Originally posted by iPeon
Yes, I'm crazy in expecting the impossible and even crazier to go against "what can you expect because..." type agreements. Or am I?
....
You totally missed kim kap sol's point. It is not a matter of marketing. It is a matter of numbers. He is telling you that a mature market gives you little, if any, opportunity to move marketshare numbers. It would be an interesting exercise to run a simulation of opportunities available for Apple in the current computer market. To significantly change market dynamics will require a paradigm shift.
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
Windows 2000 smokes any pre-X MacOS. OS9 and earlier had sucky memory management and the multitasking blew as well. I never would've bought a Mac if it weren't for OS X.
YES! How so many forgot on this board that before BSD -> NEXT -> OSX, Mac OS could be stopped in it's track with simply holding down the friggen mouse button. All this talking about others copying so called intellectual property, who cares! As long as the outcome is beneficial for the consumer, besides I remember seeing a Alpha release of Long Horn and it had widget thingies before OSX Tiger was released.
I think all of you Apple users just want to be like me with my Next Cube running at an impressive 33MHz. Aaaahh Next! Just for giggles I fired it up the other day, holy crap it's amazing how much OSX is like OpenStep.
Originally posted by Mr. Me
You totally missed kim kap sol's point. It is not a matter of marketing. It is a matter of numbers. He is telling you that a mature market gives you little, if any, opportunity to move marketshare numbers. It would be an interesting exercise to run a simulation of opportunities available for Apple in the current computer market. To significantly change market dynamics will require a paradigm shift.
No I didn't. I do see that most can't conceive that the Mac CAN increase market share unless some preconceived condition is in place first, or that it will take years and years. This is a false datum. The "why" is lack of marketing. That's all. I also see something very strange about Apple and the Mac OS, something that has been observable ever since the beginning, and it's this: It seems as though Apple thinks that a great product by it's very greatness will sell itself. This arrogance is the cause of low market share today.
With good marketing you can sell anything. There is NO excuse for Apples' low market share. Period. And that is what I'm telling you.
Originally posted by Mr. Me
You totally missed kim kap sol's point. It is not a matter of marketing. It is a matter of numbers. He is telling you that a mature market gives you little, if any, opportunity to move marketshare numbers. It would be an interesting exercise to run a simulation of opportunities available for Apple in the current computer market. To significantly change market dynamics will require a paradigm shift.
What do Gm, Toyota, Honda, Ford, Dodge, Pepsi, CocaCola, Coors, Miller etc. etc. etc. etc. etc, have in common?
Market share can be expanded, even in a mature market. All it takes is $$$$. Last I heard Apple had a bundle of cash. I agree, their marketeing stinks. Has for years. I think it has hurt them. But then again, I'm not a marketing genius.
This notion of letting the base act as beta testers will turn around and bite em.
Originally posted by kcmac
Seriously, there is not that much room for creativity left
to develop a - what? - office suite, no? Okay, one can try...
Originally posted by ibuzz
What do Gm, Toyota, Honda, Ford, Dodge, Pepsi, CocaCola, Coors, Miller etc. etc. etc. etc. etc, have in common?
Market share can be expanded, even in a mature market. All it takes is $$$$. Last I heard Apple had a bundle of cash. I agree, their marketeing stinks. Has for years. I think it has hurt them. But then again, I'm not a marketing genius.
Funny you should mention both Pepsi and CocaCola as market share gainers, I always thought they were competitors on same field, so they gained market share from each other????
At the moment OSXs best marketing is done by Microsoft with all it's problems, and current mac users telling there is an alternative. You can't get that kind of GOOD publicity with commercials.
Plus Apple has done wonderful job with product placement, just watch tv and you can't avoid seeing those beautiful Apple computers. Magazines to day also have way more Apple releted articles that Apples market share would suggest.
Apple has actually become a player in the field again, what more can expect from a company that went next to extinction only few years ago?
Originally posted by Project2501
Apple has actually become a player in the field again, what more can expect from a company that went next to extinction only few years ago?
Not really. Not yet anyway and Apple is letting this opportunity go by. Apple is seen as the good guy and is getting lots of attention, but good guys also need to show that they can handle the job. Apple isn't doing that. You don't see Apple marketing Mac OS X to the masses. Apple sits, hoping that by some magical phenomena, people will switch to the Mac OS X without Apple itself doing any major marketing! Meanwhile MS is recuperating and getting ready to once again spread OS superiority FUD with Vista. I'm so sick of such crap, that I'm now pointing the finger at Apple. I'm adamant about this. If Apple is not interested in planting the Mac OS once and for all into the market, then let somebody else do it because Apple itself by lack of action is letting Windows become more and more the standard and harder and harder to break free from.
Apple has their marketing heads (the little marketing that Apple actually does at that) stuck on hardware, hardware, hardware and the OS is juts a nice thing that comes it. How blind and stupid can Apple be and continue to be??!!!!! The hardware game is over Apple. It never was worth anything compared to the software game in the first place. Software commands hardware, get it straight already Apple. Please! Thank you.
Originally posted by iPeon
Apple has their marketing heads (the little marketing that Apple actually does at that) stuck on hardware, hardware, hardware and the OS is juts a nice thing that comes it. How blind and stupid can Apple be and continue to be??!!!!! The hardware game is over Apple. It never was worth anything compared to the software game in the first place. Software commands hardware, get it straight already Apple. Please! Thank you.
Yeah, Apple didn't learn that the name of the game is software when Microsoft told them this decades ago, they didn't learn when they were competing with the clones, and they still haven't learned. People don't go to the apple store for shiny cases, they go for OSX. They can't seem to look past the $ipod$.
Originally posted by dr. zoidberg
funny thing is that "gadgets" was apple's original term for the dashboard-widgets (IIRC). i remember that there even has been some original documentation around when tiger was released, in which they still were referred to as "gadgets".
Yes, such as the WWDC 2004 release of Mac OS X Tiger as seen here.
http://homepage.mac.com/statusquorul...eenshot222.jpg
I bet thats where they got the name!
and Mozart ripped off Haydn...
and Haydn ripped off Mozart and Beethoven...
but he only did so after having being ripped off by Beethoven and Mozart...
...and they all ripped off Bach!
Who ripped off Buxtehude!!!
Bastards, all of them!
If only they'd been totally original, we might have had some decent music in the world!
But I prefer to think of Apple as Mozart, and MS as Salieri ...
I was reading through MS's "blog," and thouroughly enjoying the obvious Mac users' replies to it. What PowerComputing said in '97 was true, "We're fighting back for Mac," only without them.
Originally posted by iPeon
Apple has their marketing heads (the little marketing that Apple actually does at that) stuck on hardware, hardware, hardware and the OS is juts a nice thing that comes it. How blind and stupid can Apple be and continue to be??!!!!! The hardware game is over Apple. It never was worth anything compared to the software game in the first place. Software commands hardware, get it straight already Apple. Please! Thank you.
Apple has done quite a bit with product placement. However, that is not the name of the game. Ask your friends, relatives, etc. what they primarily use a computer for. You will get one standard answer: the Internet. Whether it is for E-mail, surfing the web, posting pictures, etc. it is all about the Web.
Apple does need to make a marketing push. However, the OS will not sell nearly as much as a software product will. Why? Because an application or suite of applications is a focused piece of software. The one thing that makes the Mac stand out from the rest is iLife. You can't find ANYTHING out there that has the quality, ease of use, and functionality of iLife for as cheap as it is. Apple already has the product, now they need to advertise it. They CAN make TV or (*gasp!*) Radio ads with that.
Now, print ads are a place to put stuff about the OS. However, you need to focus on one PART of the OS. For instance, have one ad talk about iChat, and the ability to easily video conference or audio conference with people. Or what about ease of setup? Or how about safety on the web? There are several different topics that can make the OS case, but that case will only be made in print, not on the TV or Radio.
When people think about MS they think about Windows, when people think about Apple they think about beautiful expensive computers. They never associate Apple with an OS. When I say people, I mean the consumer out there, not you and I.
This is where Apple is making the mistake. Apple needs to re-educate the market so that when they think about Apple they also think about Mac OS X. An OPERATING SYSTEM that is the ALTERNATIVE to Windows. Consumers do not see Apple as a company that makes software. They really don't, if you don't believe me go out there into the streets and ask if they know what Mac OS X is. You will be dumbfounded to find out that most have no idea that the Mac has an entirely different OS to Windows. Whose fault is it for this ignorance? That's right, Apple.
Apple could make such an impact by advertise the software on TV. Put it out there little by little. All Apple needs to do is show it, they don't have to explain it, just keep showing it off and tell a little about it. Make different ads each telling some tidbit about the app and showing it in action. Fun, simple ads showing the product in action. I guaranty you that if Apple did this and kept doing it, the consumer would realize they don't have to use Windows to do what they need to do. It's so attainable and easy given that consumers are fed up with Windows, arghhhh! And two, that they have no idea that there IS an alternative to Windows! So attainable and easy to do that one can only get one conclusion. Apple does not want it.
Originally posted by iPeon
When people think about MS they think about Windows, when people think about Apple they think about beautiful expensive computers. They never associate Apple with an OS. When I say people, I mean the consumer out there, not you and I.
So attainable and easy to do that one can only get one conclusion. Apple does not want it. [/B]
It makes me wonder what kind of concessions the evil empire got when bill gates dumped what was it, a couple of hundred million dollars, in apple during the 90's to keep it afloat.
i mean, they certainly look like they're trying to ape the dashboard and its functionality. i think the thing that annoys me the most is that i work with at least a few people who, once they catch wind of this will have the gall to say to me "why can't apple do something cool like this? huh?" at which point, i may have to club them with my ipod.