Wow so many gas guzzlers... I drive my girlfriends 1999 Toyota Tercel but in the near future I hope to buy the new 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid.
Every car I buy must be a hybrid... yes I'm a hybrid car fan!!!
I'd be right on getting a hybrid if the prices went down a little bit. Philosophically (and technilogically, and coolness-wise), they're great...economically, I can't really justify them for myself quite yet.
Be careful! - I've heard that older 911s have a nasty habit of throwing you into the nearest tree.
Anyhow, I drive something much less sexy - A Toyota Corolla! It's actually a 2005 model, and is a great car, especially as I've only passed my test just before I bought it and cars are much more expensive here in the UK compared with the US.
I thought that I would add my thoughts on the differences between US and European car buyers, just to aid the conversation (though I think that most of the posters here can be thought of as 'honorary Europeans' for these purposes!):
1. Why is the American idea of a luxury car just a very big version of their small and crappy one?
2. Am I the only one who is irrationally irritated by GM? Here in the UK, we have Vauxhall (basically the same as Opel), and they just seem so boring, soulless, and 'middle of the road'.
3. Do American buyers value their lives at all? If you look at American price lists, most airbags, stability control, and even ABS for the love of God is OPTIONAL!
4. The one thing I think America has got right with cars is the automatic transmission - my Toyota is, and despite the worse fuel economy, it's absolutely great.
I thought that I would add my thoughts on the differences between US and European car buyers, . . .
US and European car buying habits aren't as different as you think. Compact luxury cars, such as the BMW 3-series, etc, sell quite well (which, aside from the M3, are by no means sports cars).
The major differences are the markets themselves:
1. Engines here are bigger.
2. No one can drive stick. This is good if you are a fan of the stick, since people won't bug you to borrow your car.
3. More people buy trucks. Some of it may have to do with the fact that business owners can get tax exemptions for corporate vehicles as long as they are "utility oriented" (i.e. trucks). There are a LOT of small business owners in the states who merge company utility with personal use.
4. Despite the fact that there are a ton of V6's and even V8's on the road, people drive fucking slow. I blame this on the automatic transmission. 66% percent of drivers here probably never break 3000 rpm. Seriously.
5. Safety is more of less the same. Most cars out there have airbags and anti-lock brakes.
6. GM is a mixed bag. They make great trucks (so does Ford). The Chevrolet line is pure automotive valium, but there are a few standouts. The Corvette is actually pretty solid, but it has a redneck image. The Pontiac GTO is a Holden Monaro, and I like it. The Saturn Ion Redlne / Chevrolet Cobalt GT is overpriced but decent. The Cadillac CTS-V is sweeeeet. The Cadillac line in general is fairly edgy, although also generally expensive.
7. V8's aren't so bad on gas here, since some of the cylinders shut off when you're mid-throttle. It's not unusual for American V6's and V8's to have better fuel economy than European and Japanese four-bangers -- especially turbo four-bangers.
00 Excursion - not used as much any more since we bought a Town and Country
02 F 150 - 86,000 on it and it gets worked out a lot
05 Town and Country - mine
As for the limited number of sticks in the US, I believe it is because it is hard to shift while talking on the phone (still too many people without handfree) and eating or drinking. Cup holders are more important.
00 Excursion - not used as much any more since we bought a Town and Country
02 F 150 - 86,000 on it and it gets worked out a lot
05 Town and Country - mine
As for the limited number of sticks in the US, I believe it is because it is hard to shift while talking on the phone (still too many people without handfree) and eating or drinking. Cup holders are more important.
reg
I think it has more to do with the fact that American automakers were the first to market automatic transmissions. It seems likely that the automatic transmission is an American invention. Anyway, back in the 50's, when automatic transmissions were getting popular, no one had cell phones or cupholders.
6. GM is a mixed bag. They make great trucks (so does Ford). The Chevrolet line is pure automotive valium, but there are a few standouts. The Corvette is actually pretty solid, but it has a redneck image. The Pontiac GTO is a Holden Monaro, and I like it. The Saturn Ion Redlne / Chevrolet Cobalt GT is overpriced but decent. The Cadillac CTS-V is sweeeeet. The Cadillac line in general is fairly edgy, although also generally expensive.
7. V8's aren't so bad on gas here, since some of the cylinders shut off when you're mid-throttle. It's not unusual for American V6's and V8's to have better fuel economy than European and Japanese four-bangers -- especially turbo four-bangers. [/B]
You mean Cobalt SS. The GT name is Pontiacs tagline along with GTP and GXP. That decent will go to awesome once the Pontiac Solstice GXP engine goes into it. Which is a Ecotec 2.0 Turbo'd with Direct Injection which produces 260 HP and 260 lb of torque. Well Cadillac is in no means the avg Joe car. It is a luxury/performance brand. If rumors pan out, with the Corvette SS producing 600+ HP, then that gives Caddy access to the so far exclusive LS7 thats in the Z06. You know the unofficial rule at GM. " No car will out power the Corvette." V8's here aren't bad on fuel. Especially GM's Small Block V8's. The Z06 has 505 hp and is a big 7 liters. Yet it gets 16/26. Super car performance without the sacrifice of fuel economy.
Wasn't there a survey recently that said that many iTunes users were VW/Audi owners?
Count me as a former Audi owner and current VW owner. Jetta Wagon 1.8 Turbo.
C'mon you VW/Audi lurkers--post!
There you go. Jetta Wagon 1.8 turbo, me too.
Room, decent milage, fun when you want it. What model year do you have?
When I was looking I monitored all the window regulator/mass air sensor/ignition coil horror stories, and it seemed like as of the '03 model year they had been addressed. 40k miles so far and no worries.
My wife and I share a 1997 GMC Sonoma (4-Cyl) and a 2002 Focus Wagon. Filled the truck this morning for $34 (around 22 mpg); the Focus is usually less than $30 (30 mpg).
In three years, when the Sonoma hits 200k miles (knock-on-wood), we'll retire it to occasional use, and pick-up a two year old Mazda5 or MPV, depending on gas prices at the time
& when I don't need the flexcar, I use a bike or my feet.
I pay nothing each month for insurance & I pay nothing for gas. The flexcar costs me $9 per hour, unlimited miles, no annual fee, no insurance.
btw: A lot of the flexcars in my town are Honda Civic Hybrids. They get just OK gas mileage considering their touted "green" image.
If one drives the Honda like a regular car, expect 30-33 mpg - maybe. If one drives it very, very slowly...and carefully...and if one doesn't have a "lead foot" then it is possible to hover around 40 mpg in the city. I think a lot of people would be put off by the noise the Honda makes...when braking, it sounds like sirens/alarms going off.
The Toyota Prius is an awesome car to drive, and certainly gets the MPG (in the city) that Toyota claims. Again, one musn't have a lead foot or the mileage goes WAY down.
Thanks for your post, i'd just like to add some of my observations to your observations.
Quote:
Originally posted by Splinemodel
The major differences are the markets themselves:
1. Engines here are bigger.
As much as i love the US and US cars, i sometimes am at a loss to understand why so many 200+ HP cars are being sold in the US. After living several years in the US, i'm now living in Norway, and even in the mountains here or driving along the fjords i find that my Saab with a 2.0 liter/133HP car works just fine for everything i throw at it. Do i really need to go from 0-60mph in 6.4 seconds instead of 10? Apart from those four seconds, it's the speed limits limiting my progress, not the amounts of horsepower 8). But then again, i never understood the city people driving Hummers, or Volvo XC's.
Quote:
5. Safety is more of less the same. Most cars out there have airbags and anti-lock brakes.
Unfortunately that is not all there is to safety. High trucks tend to swerve/topple over quicker and do more damage to pedestrians or other people involved in accidents. Brake distance is another important thing that's not mentioned. Safety consists of a lot of factors, with airbags and their likes only being the last step of reducing trauma while in fact crashing. There's a swedish institution analyzing actual accidents and those data show in fact that there are relatively more personal injuries in accidents involving [american] trucks, including, but not limited to the people sitting in that truck.
Having said that, my next car probably is either gonna be Swedish [american owned ] or pure american again.
Thanks for your post, i'd just like to add some of my observations to your observations.
As much as i love the US and US cars, i sometimes am at a loss to understand why so many 200+ HP cars are being sold in the US. After living several years in the US, i'm now living in Norway, . . .
200hp is just a number, and a lot of the big, low-compression, lean-mixture pushrod V6's (take for example the GM3800/3900) get comparable fuel economy to your Saab during normal driving. The trick isThey are also about 1000 times more reliable (flame bait, yes). Generally speaking, the GM 3.5L and larger V6's seem to compare to European 2.4-3.0L engines in terms of fuel economy.
I think you'll find that American cars are quite respectable in the safety department, even when considering more than just the few points I made. Just like any other nation's cars, there are cars that are more safe and cars that are less safe, but I think you'll find that the averages coincide.
Quote:
Having said that, my next car probably is either gonna be Swedish [american owned ] or pure american again.
I really like the Saab 9-3. My friend and co-worker has one, and it's a solid car. I bought a Subaru WRX instead, which is a pretty similar car, except it's ugly, not posh at all. . . but has AWD and a 2L four that's in it's element when you boost the bejeezes out of it.
As much as i love the US and US cars, i sometimes am at a loss to understand why so many 200+ HP cars are being sold in the US.
I don't know where you lived in US, but the traffic in SF bay area moves at 70-90 MPH at time so good acceleration from 60-90 MPH is good to have. Powerful engine is the biggest safety feature of the car that allows you to leave the dangerous situation behind you at any speed.
Combine the this with a typical midsize US car that weighs 3400- 3600lb and 200+ honest HP engine is a must!
Quote:
Having said that, my next car probably is either gonna be Swedish [american owned ] or pure american again.
The safest car is the one that helps you prevent an accident rather than survive one which means that it has to be designed in a manner which helps the driver by, its very nature, connecting the human to the machine in a way that is direct, yet not fatiguing. Not many swedish or american cars can do that these days.
Quote:
200hp is just a number, and a lot of the big, low-compression, lean-mixture pushrod V6's (take for example the GM3800/3900) get comparable fuel economy to your Saab during normal driving.
During normal driving, gearing, aerodynamics, and car's weight is what determines the fuel economy... not the engine.
Quote:
The trick isThey are also about 1000 times more reliable (flame bait, yes).
US car engines more reliable that who?? Saab's?? Maybe...
Quote:
I think you'll find that American cars are quite respectable in the safety department,
During normal driving, gearing, aerodynamics, and car's weight is what determines the fuel economy... not the engine.
That is just not true. The following Volvos all have the same weight: V70 2.4, V70 2.5 AWD, V70R. With a manual transmission you will get over 30 mpg with the V70 2.4, about 22 mpg with the V70 2.5 AWD, and 16-19 mpg with the V70R.
The engine has an effect on gas milage, and all-wheel drive also does. The main difference between car 1 and car 2 above is AWD, the main difference between car 2 and car 3 is engine power.
Also - I have plenty of chance to use a lot of torque in the US. Maybe the high horsepower is not useful, but the high torque is - and you can't get one without the other really.
Comments
Here's a link to some nice pics, http://www.hybridcars.com/civic_photos.html
Every car I buy must be a hybrid... yes I'm a hybrid car fan!!!
If anyone is interested in learning the real facts about hybrids and get the latest news check out these sites, there great!
http://www.hybridcars.com/
http://www.mixedpower.com/
PS. My girlfriend wants a Toyota Prius!
Originally posted by Darth_Apple
Wow so many gas guzzlers... I drive my girlfriends 1999 Toyota Tercel but in the near future I hope to buy the new 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid.
Every car I buy must be a hybrid... yes I'm a hybrid car fan!!!
I'd be right on getting a hybrid if the prices went down a little bit. Philosophically (and technilogically, and coolness-wise), they're great...economically, I can't really justify them for myself quite yet.
So I'm going to get rid of my '99 Accord Coupe (only 26K miles) and get an old Porsche 911 for weekend fun.
I like the looks of this 1978 911 SC:
But I'll likely get something newer, like this 1987 911:
Anyhow, I drive something much less sexy - A Toyota Corolla! It's actually a 2005 model, and is a great car, especially as I've only passed my test just before I bought it and cars are much more expensive here in the UK compared with the US.
I thought that I would add my thoughts on the differences between US and European car buyers, just to aid the conversation (though I think that most of the posters here can be thought of as 'honorary Europeans' for these purposes!):
1. Why is the American idea of a luxury car just a very big version of their small and crappy one?
2. Am I the only one who is irrationally irritated by GM? Here in the UK, we have Vauxhall (basically the same as Opel), and they just seem so boring, soulless, and 'middle of the road'.
3. Do American buyers value their lives at all? If you look at American price lists, most airbags, stability control, and even ABS for the love of God is OPTIONAL!
4. The one thing I think America has got right with cars is the automatic transmission - my Toyota is, and despite the worse fuel economy, it's absolutely great.
David.
Originally posted by iMacfan
. . .
I thought that I would add my thoughts on the differences between US and European car buyers, . . .
US and European car buying habits aren't as different as you think. Compact luxury cars, such as the BMW 3-series, etc, sell quite well (which, aside from the M3, are by no means sports cars).
The major differences are the markets themselves:
1. Engines here are bigger.
2. No one can drive stick. This is good if you are a fan of the stick, since people won't bug you to borrow your car.
3. More people buy trucks. Some of it may have to do with the fact that business owners can get tax exemptions for corporate vehicles as long as they are "utility oriented" (i.e. trucks). There are a LOT of small business owners in the states who merge company utility with personal use.
4. Despite the fact that there are a ton of V6's and even V8's on the road, people drive fucking slow. I blame this on the automatic transmission. 66% percent of drivers here probably never break 3000 rpm. Seriously.
5. Safety is more of less the same. Most cars out there have airbags and anti-lock brakes.
6. GM is a mixed bag. They make great trucks (so does Ford). The Chevrolet line is pure automotive valium, but there are a few standouts. The Corvette is actually pretty solid, but it has a redneck image. The Pontiac GTO is a Holden Monaro, and I like it. The Saturn Ion Redlne / Chevrolet Cobalt GT is overpriced but decent. The Cadillac CTS-V is sweeeeet. The Cadillac line in general is fairly edgy, although also generally expensive.
7. V8's aren't so bad on gas here, since some of the cylinders shut off when you're mid-throttle. It's not unusual for American V6's and V8's to have better fuel economy than European and Japanese four-bangers -- especially turbo four-bangers.
00 Excursion - not used as much any more since we bought a Town and Country
02 F 150 - 86,000 on it and it gets worked out a lot
05 Town and Country - mine
As for the limited number of sticks in the US, I believe it is because it is hard to shift while talking on the phone (still too many people without handfree) and eating or drinking. Cup holders are more important.
reg
Originally posted by reg
98 Passat - wife's car
00 Excursion - not used as much any more since we bought a Town and Country
02 F 150 - 86,000 on it and it gets worked out a lot
05 Town and Country - mine
As for the limited number of sticks in the US, I believe it is because it is hard to shift while talking on the phone (still too many people without handfree) and eating or drinking. Cup holders are more important.
reg
I think it has more to do with the fact that American automakers were the first to market automatic transmissions. It seems likely that the automatic transmission is an American invention. Anyway, back in the 50's, when automatic transmissions were getting popular, no one had cell phones or cupholders.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
The major differences are the markets themselves:
6. GM is a mixed bag. They make great trucks (so does Ford). The Chevrolet line is pure automotive valium, but there are a few standouts. The Corvette is actually pretty solid, but it has a redneck image. The Pontiac GTO is a Holden Monaro, and I like it. The Saturn Ion Redlne / Chevrolet Cobalt GT is overpriced but decent. The Cadillac CTS-V is sweeeeet. The Cadillac line in general is fairly edgy, although also generally expensive.
7. V8's aren't so bad on gas here, since some of the cylinders shut off when you're mid-throttle. It's not unusual for American V6's and V8's to have better fuel economy than European and Japanese four-bangers -- especially turbo four-bangers. [/B]
You mean Cobalt SS. The GT name is Pontiacs tagline along with GTP and GXP. That decent will go to awesome once the Pontiac Solstice GXP engine goes into it. Which is a Ecotec 2.0 Turbo'd with Direct Injection which produces 260 HP and 260 lb of torque. Well Cadillac is in no means the avg Joe car. It is a luxury/performance brand. If rumors pan out, with the Corvette SS producing 600+ HP, then that gives Caddy access to the so far exclusive LS7 thats in the Z06. You know the unofficial rule at GM. " No car will out power the Corvette." V8's here aren't bad on fuel. Especially GM's Small Block V8's. The Z06 has 505 hp and is a big 7 liters. Yet it gets 16/26. Super car performance without the sacrifice of fuel economy.
Originally posted by bikertwin
Volvos?!
Wasn't there a survey recently that said that many iTunes users were VW/Audi owners?
Count me as a former Audi owner and current VW owner. Jetta Wagon 1.8 Turbo.
C'mon you VW/Audi lurkers--post!
There you go. Jetta Wagon 1.8 turbo, me too.
Room, decent milage, fun when you want it. What model year do you have?
When I was looking I monitored all the window regulator/mass air sensor/ignition coil horror stories, and it seemed like as of the '03 model year they had been addressed. 40k miles so far and no worries.
White.
Yum.
In three years, when the Sonoma hits 200k miles (knock-on-wood), we'll retire it to occasional use, and pick-up a two year old Mazda5 or MPV, depending on gas prices at the time
& when I don't need the flexcar, I use a bike or my feet.
I pay nothing each month for insurance & I pay nothing for gas. The flexcar costs me $9 per hour, unlimited miles, no annual fee, no insurance.
btw: A lot of the flexcars in my town are Honda Civic Hybrids. They get just OK gas mileage considering their touted "green" image.
If one drives the Honda like a regular car, expect 30-33 mpg - maybe. If one drives it very, very slowly...and carefully...and if one doesn't have a "lead foot" then it is possible to hover around 40 mpg in the city. I think a lot of people would be put off by the noise the Honda makes...when braking, it sounds like sirens/alarms going off.
The Toyota Prius is an awesome car to drive, and certainly gets the MPG (in the city) that Toyota claims. Again, one musn't have a lead foot or the mileage goes WAY down.
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
I use my feet. It costs about 8 dollars to fill up.
lol..
Originally posted by Splinemodel
The major differences are the markets themselves:
1. Engines here are bigger.
As much as i love the US and US cars, i sometimes am at a loss to understand why so many 200+ HP cars are being sold in the US. After living several years in the US, i'm now living in Norway, and even in the mountains here or driving along the fjords i find that my Saab with a 2.0 liter/133HP car works just fine for everything i throw at it. Do i really need to go from 0-60mph in 6.4 seconds instead of 10? Apart from those four seconds, it's the speed limits limiting my progress, not the amounts of horsepower 8). But then again, i never understood the city people driving Hummers, or Volvo XC's.
5. Safety is more of less the same. Most cars out there have airbags and anti-lock brakes.
Unfortunately that is not all there is to safety. High trucks tend to swerve/topple over quicker and do more damage to pedestrians or other people involved in accidents. Brake distance is another important thing that's not mentioned. Safety consists of a lot of factors, with airbags and their likes only being the last step of reducing trauma while in fact crashing. There's a swedish institution analyzing actual accidents and those data show in fact that there are relatively more personal injuries in accidents involving [american] trucks, including, but not limited to the people sitting in that truck.
Having said that, my next car probably is either gonna be Swedish [american owned
Originally posted by RoguePat
Thanks for your post, i'd just like to add some of my observations to your observations.
As much as i love the US and US cars, i sometimes am at a loss to understand why so many 200+ HP cars are being sold in the US. After living several years in the US, i'm now living in Norway, . . .
200hp is just a number, and a lot of the big, low-compression, lean-mixture pushrod V6's (take for example the GM3800/3900) get comparable fuel economy to your Saab during normal driving. The trick isThey are also about 1000 times more reliable (flame bait, yes). Generally speaking, the GM 3.5L and larger V6's seem to compare to European 2.4-3.0L engines in terms of fuel economy.
I think you'll find that American cars are quite respectable in the safety department, even when considering more than just the few points I made. Just like any other nation's cars, there are cars that are more safe and cars that are less safe, but I think you'll find that the averages coincide.
Having said that, my next car probably is either gonna be Swedish [american owned ] or pure american again.
I really like the Saab 9-3. My friend and co-worker has one, and it's a solid car. I bought a Subaru WRX instead, which is a pretty similar car, except it's ugly, not posh at all. . . but has AWD and a 2L four that's in it's element when you boost the bejeezes out of it.
As much as i love the US and US cars, i sometimes am at a loss to understand why so many 200+ HP cars are being sold in the US.
I don't know where you lived in US, but the traffic in SF bay area moves at 70-90 MPH at time so good acceleration from 60-90 MPH is good to have. Powerful engine is the biggest safety feature of the car that allows you to leave the dangerous situation behind you at any speed.
Combine the this with a typical midsize US car that weighs 3400- 3600lb and 200+ honest HP engine is a must!
Having said that, my next car probably is either gonna be Swedish [american owned
The safest car is the one that helps you prevent an accident rather than survive one which means that it has to be designed in a manner which helps the driver by, its very nature, connecting the human to the machine in a way that is direct, yet not fatiguing. Not many swedish or american cars can do that these days.
200hp is just a number, and a lot of the big, low-compression, lean-mixture pushrod V6's (take for example the GM3800/3900) get comparable fuel economy to your Saab during normal driving.
During normal driving, gearing, aerodynamics, and car's weight is what determines the fuel economy... not the engine.
The trick isThey are also about 1000 times more reliable (flame bait, yes).
US car engines more reliable that who?? Saab's?? Maybe...
I think you'll find that American cars are quite respectable in the safety department,
Especially the latest Ford Fusion... hehe...
Originally posted by skatman
During normal driving, gearing, aerodynamics, and car's weight is what determines the fuel economy... not the engine.
That is just not true. The following Volvos all have the same weight: V70 2.4, V70 2.5 AWD, V70R. With a manual transmission you will get over 30 mpg with the V70 2.4, about 22 mpg with the V70 2.5 AWD, and 16-19 mpg with the V70R.
The engine has an effect on gas milage, and all-wheel drive also does. The main difference between car 1 and car 2 above is AWD, the main difference between car 2 and car 3 is engine power.
Also - I have plenty of chance to use a lot of torque in the US. Maybe the high horsepower is not useful, but the high torque is - and you can't get one without the other really.