Apple unveils Mac mini Core Duo

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Comments

  • Reply 101 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    (...)



    Playing HD is a CPU bound task not a graphics card task. Only the ATI 1XXX series with the latest catalyst drivers supports h.264 acceleration.



    again for those that seem to thrive on misinformation



    HD playback is CPU bound and not graphics card bound!!



    Geez guys vent all you want but don't make stuff up.




    You are probably a man with a lot of fine manners,

    i appreciate pretty much, you know. One question

    crossed my mind, and i know this is a dangerous field --

    --Where for christ's sake do you take all this apple faith from.

    You are worse than me. Are you a paid Apple threader?
  • Reply 102 of 781
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,354member
    Quote:

    Therefore, I would argue that HD content playback can be limited to either CPU or GPU based on the context - rather than your errorneous black or white statement.



    Black and White works better in this situation simply because while you can have GPU accelereration it is not preferrable at this point in time to CPU acceleration.



    What is being said here is that HD playback cannot happen when the GPU is not up to snuff and that's false. HD playback can be improved by GPU acceleration when the host CPU isn't strong enought to do it on its own. That's an important distinction. AI flamefests aren't the best place to desire specificity but your point has been duly noted.
  • Reply 103 of 781
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Why the assumption that networks are just for WAN connectivity. 100T networking becomes the bottleneck if you wish to put storage on the network. We have plenty of consumers buying network storage.















    And just how much profit do you think is in sub $500 computers? If you can get $40 you're doing damn good.









    Our best selling computers aren't the extremely lowend. People tend to shy away from the cheapest computer and move into the next step up for features. Apple's history shows the middle model out of a line of three tends to sell the best. Media Centre is just now blipping on the Mac radar. It's still incomplete and we have other things that need to happen first. The mac mini sucks to you but I doubt that many consumers will agree.




    Having paid ~$610 for a Mac Mini 1.2 upgraded from 256 to 512 and with built in wifi (NOT BLUETOOTH) and combo drive, I would have GLADLY paid an extra $100 over base for a 1.5GHZ proc, the ability to handle more than a gig of ram (yes, I can fill 12 easilly, I could probably fill a gig too) WIRELESS INCLUDED, frontrow, podcasting in GB without a lot of dicking with XML, AND AUDIO IN...this is WAY better than last years model
  • Reply 104 of 781
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,354member




    [QUOTE--Where for christ's sake do you take all this apple faith from.

    You are worse than me. Are you a paid Apple threader?

    QUOTE]



    Brother...if there's hell below...we're all gonna go.



    I'll be the first to say that I've had my moments as well. I remember being pretty embarrassed after my rants and tirades after the announcement of the Intel shift. However what that really means is that "I" didn't get what "I" wanted.



    Saying that the Mac mini sucks is an affront to people who feel like it's the ideal computer for them. Hell if you say the Mac mini sucks as a gaming machine I'm likely to agree. If you say the Mac mini sucks flat out with no qualifiers then the debate is on.



    However bad habits also tend to creep up. One of them is



    "without teh mega GPU XXX can't play HD video" that's just flat out wrong.



    If Kaspar is paying for posts man I'm due some retroactive fundage!



  • Reply 105 of 781
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,299member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by klinux

    B U L L S H * T



    There. I am right you are wrong. What a great way to argue? Shouting does not help your case buddy.



    What if one's video card cannot output 1920x1080 @ 60hz? Are they then not bound by their GPU?



    Moreover, People here are confused about high definition and codecs used in achieving that high definition.



    For example, MPEG-2 in 1920x1080 is roughly 15-20 mbps and may not be that difficult to decode. However, MPEG-4 and various derivatives such as H264, DivX, Xvid, WMV, etc are are roughly 8-10 mbps and notoriously hard to decode. As people have mentioned, ATI's R520 does offer H264 accelration and so does Nvidia's PureVideo. ATI has also long offered DivX acceleration at least in its PC products. GPU certainly has a role in HD content playback.



    Therefore, I would argue that HD content playback can be limited to either CPU or GPU based on the context - rather than your errorneous black or white statement.



    To make stuff up and then tell others to not make stuff up is bad enough. To shout it out? That's sad.




    But, he was right.The point he was making was that you don't NEED a GPU to do the decoding when the cpu can do it. Of course, we know that the better GPU's do it as well
  • Reply 106 of 781
    With price points in Australia $999 and $1299 respectively for a box this is why people buy dells in Australia, for that you get everything you need and a "faster" meaning bugger numbers Pentium 4. 3ghz and that is what poeple want big numbers.
  • Reply 107 of 781
    resres Posts: 711member
    People, those of us who are unhappy with the GPU in the new mac mini are not asking for much. We don't expect a high end or even a medium level graphics card. All we are asking for is an entry level $50 (retail) graphics card, which we would gladly pay extra for as a BTO option. The new mini would be perfect if it had that, and I would buy several of them. As it is, I will skip this model.
  • Reply 108 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by aegisdesign

    Actually, the old model later on had 5400rpm drives too.



    Not officially. My spec model was the revision B and has a 4200rpm drive. The revision C was never officially announced.
  • Reply 109 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Res

    People, those of us who are unhappy with the GPU in the new mac mini are not asking for much. We don't expect a high end or even a medium level graphics card. All we are asking for is an entry level $50 (retail) graphics card, which we would gladly pay extra for as a BTO option. The new mini would be perfect if it had that, and I would buy several of them. As it is, I will skip this model.



    Ditto.
  • Reply 110 of 781
    So, Front Row is the DVR software that was rumored to come with it..? I think the $599 price is OK... I think once the technology has been out for a while, the price will drop... The duo-core chip on the "high end" system and iMac plus Mac Book Pro is very new technology that I don't know if the PCs are using yet...
  • Reply 111 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison





    [QUOTE--Where for christ's sake do you take all this apple faith from.

    You are worse than me. Are you a paid Apple threader?

    QUOTE]



    Brother...if there's hell below...we're all gonna go.



    I'll be the first to say that I've had my moments as well. I remember being pretty embarrassed after my rants and tirades after the announcement of the Intel shift. However what that really means is that "I" didn't get what "I" wanted.

    ...

    If Kaspar is paying for posts man I'm due some retroactive fundage!







    Apposite answer to the bullish boy.
  • Reply 112 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by klinux

    As people have mentioned, ATI's R520 does offer H264 accelration and so does Nvidia's PureVideo. ATI has also long offered DivX acceleration at least in its PC products. GPU certainly has a role in HD content playback.



    All true. However, on a Mac that's not true. H264 is entirely done by the CPU even on cards that support H264 in hardware. At least for now that's so. Again, it's the curse of the Apple video driver.



    So, to be black and white about it, HD is entirely CPU bound, and the Core Duo is probably just fine for that.
  • Reply 113 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison





    ...

    However bad habits also tend to creep up. One of them is

    ...




    Maybe so, but you don't have to tend them.

    All right another story...
  • Reply 114 of 781
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rminkler

    I don't understand all the whining about the integrated graphics. This is not a high powered machine.



    It's not a gaming machine, but for 99% of users it will be fine. Does your email download slower via intigrated graphics? Does office bog down? Maybe this isn't the mac for the mac enthusiast, but wake up people - it's a fine machine.



    [edited for spelling]




    I agree, and I think this is a fine machine in many ways, but integrated graphics is supposed to mean CHEAPER. It looks like the consumer market is going to be whatever Intel wants it to be and that (we would hope) means that the price of an entry level Mac would be the same as an entry level Dell. Well with the extra needed software it probably is, but when you add software and remote and ethernet, then it is going to be more. So what we are seeing is the true Apple "overhead."



    I wished that they would take a hit on the profits (I don't have Apple stock) and keep pushing for switchers. I agree with those who advocate for a <$500 with combo drive and fewer I/O options. That would have eliminated 80% of the whining here.



    I also was hoping that even though the laptop-like drives and such are a little more expensive, overtime as laptops start to "lap" desktops in sales, these will move down faster too!



    Also I don't know why Apple hasn't made anymore slices for this thing?!?!? 3rd party h/w developers are understandibly hesitant to make Mac Mini sized components when Apple could change the form overnight, but if Apple is serious about this form over the long term, they need to make accessories that give us more HD's and Elgato stuff in the same shape!



    In my mind, today is REALLY about FrontRow/Bonjour!! THis is the next to last step BEFORE the next big thing in the living room. Note, the HiFi is another obvious intermediate step.
  • Reply 115 of 781
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Reading through the Ars complaints.



    For one thing many people I know with cheap Dell computers have inegrated graphics so this is nothing new at all. And quite common in the PC market.



    One guy procalimed Google Earth will no longer work on a Mac because of integrated graphics. This is just stupid.



    Another claimed Apple is killing its gaming platform because of integrated graphics. The Mac mini was never a gaming machine, integrated graphics make no difference.



    A couple of others complained the Mac mini was the worst selling computer Apple has made. If that were true I'm sure Apple would stop making them. On the other hand Apple would not want the mini to be its best selling computer. Common sense would dictate Apple would want to sell more $1200 iMac's than sell $699 Mac mini's.



    Another guy says his friend bought an AMD computer for $349 which proves the mini is over priced. Of course he doesn't mention the actual funtionality of a $349 computer or what software comes with it.
  • Reply 116 of 781
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jdbartlett

    Sweet! Thanks. Anyone interested:



    http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv200



    $350 is nasty, though.




    That's why it wasn't put in the Mini!!!!! Sheesh!!! So for all you DVR types...
  • Reply 117 of 781
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bitemymac

    We're not asking for top of the line GPU, just something more current on the market. Isn't core-duo supposedly state of the art for apple marketing dept.?... then why match up with third world class GPU?...



    BTW, you're right about HD, but most CPU's don't stress over MPEG2, however, MPEG4 is the more processor demanding format and this integrated GPU doesn't support that. Smooth MPEG4 playback may or may not be possible at 1080p depending on how much core duo can handle by itself.... who knows....






    BTW, neither Mac Mini will play back Full HD content for two simple reasons:

    1. Apple itself says you need at least a 2Ghz Core Duo for 1080p http://www.apple.com/quicktime/guide...endations.html



    2.The DVI-Out-port does not support HDCP Copy Protection. No Hollywood Studio, not even Disney with SJ in the board will allow True HD-Content to get out of any box without Copy-Protection.
  • Reply 118 of 781
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JTBLQ

    meh...

    i'll wait for the mac book.

    if i'm going to spend $800+ for a mac i'll get a portable at least.

    my mac mini doing pretty damn well for me. i'll pass.




    For that money you are waiting for a low-level iBook, not a MacBook.
  • Reply 119 of 781
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by mmmpie

    I love it.

    The integrated graphics wouldnt be my first choice, but it is still better then the ATI 9200 that the old mini had.

    When you look at it in context it is a much better machine.



    The real problem I see with the new mini is that there isnt a 499 version. You can say all you want about not selling them, but the point of a cheap computer is to get people in the door so that you can upsell them. The cheapest machine _shouldnt_ be selling a lot.



    As for high end graphics users, come on, get real. You are going to buy a mini and then drop a $700 monitor on it??? If so get an iMac, great value. If not, then dont try to tell me you are a high graphics user.



    Personally, Im looking forward to having a stack of 3 minis running as servers ( thank you gigE ), one running OS X, one running Linux, and fingers crossed, one running Windows. There isnt a machine on the market that can offer that sort of server density on your desk. They will fit very nicely behind my 20" iMac.




    EXACTLY!!
  • Reply 120 of 781
    pmjoepmjoe Posts: 565member
    Well, as mini owner, the main negative I see is losing the $499 base price point. Kind of begs the question of where was the price/performance gain of switching to Intel (sure, it's way faster, but under $500 is low end, not $600). The optical audio out is the main thing I wished for on my mini, and it's there. Dropping the modem here for more USB ports here is a plus (I already had to buy a hub), unlike the stupidity of dropping the modem on the MacBook Pro which is necessary for a mobile computer.



    If the Core Solo and Core Duo are pin compatible, much of the rest of the specs make sense, because then then the only options are off the motherboard: just drives and RAM. Hopefully that will lead to lower cost in the long run.



    All-in-all, an OK mini for the switch to Intel. Maybe by the next revision, they'll have one that I'll want to complement my current mini. Now just please make Front Row available for the rest of us!!!
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