The iBook is good, but my reasons for wanting a TiBook are because it's display is far superior, it looks awesome, it has a G4, 32MB of VRAM, faster bus speeds and will be top of the line for at least a year. In a few more MONTHS, G3 will be unheard of.
1) G3 can't handle as much as G4 processor (if you can prove me wrong on this, please do, and I will go for the iBook) and you can upgrade the memory on the TiBook to a gig compared to only 640MB. So in other words, it would last me at least 4 years, when the iBook will be out of date in 2.5 years. Plus, I could probably get one off ebay or a maybe a refurbished one cheaper than what it is at now.
2)I am also a college student with lack of money, but I also think how you can hook up another monitor to your laptop and get extra real estate space is really worth it. With the iBook, you can only do mirroring. Since the TiBook will be my primary computer in college for the next 4 years, I think it's worth it. The 14" iBooks look so bad compared to the beautiful 12" and because 12" is not large enough for me as an everyday computer, I am going for the TiBook.
3) After MWNY I think they are going to make a 700Mhz low end Ti model and the 667 will be no longer manufactured. Making the price to about 2000 for a 667Mhz with student discount. So I spend like 400 more for a lot more features than what the iBook will give me. Unless of course they make the iBook a 1Ghz for MWNY or add a faster vid card, I am sticking to my decision to buy a TiBook.
Also, if anyone has any benchmarks of a 667Mhz G4 vs. 700Mhz G3, please tell me if the difference is significant or not.
Just be careful with that TiBook in the college environment. I have dropped my iBook several times (short distances) with no ill effects. Don't think you can do that with a Ti.
I travel a great deal and would be lost without my 500 iBook. It has shown itself to be bulletproof and a good performer. Must admit however that the 700 would sure be nice. My brother just got one and it is much faster. Gets a lot hotter as well.
Just got my iBook ?700mhz with the 512mb upgrade of ram?. It is a pretty speedy piece of machinery. Especially compared to my old Compaq wintel laptop. I don?t think anybody could go wrong getting the 700mhz iBook. It is a lot of bang for the buck.
"Record an entire year's worth of university lectures or office meeting minutes (and transcribe them if you use the money you save from not buying a TiBook to buy ViaType). You need never lose access to this sort of data that you're only told once again."
Allen - how exactly would one do that? I am in the market for a new computer, debating iMac and iBook, but this technology might be enough to make the decision easy.
I feel very out of the loop, but I am very intrigued.
Question -- is your laptop going to be your only computer? This is the dilemma I'm going through. The answer I've settled on is that an iBook cannot suffice as my only machine, because the display isn't big enough and the RAM isn't expandable enough and you can't add SCSI and the keyboard's a bit cramped and so on. But the new 700MHz iBook is better as a portable computer, because it is smaller, has better battery life, better wireless performance, and is more robust than the TiBook.
So I have to balance my choice between keeping my PowerMac G4/466 with 1.25 GB of RAM and GeForce2 graphics as my desktop and adding an iBook for the portable; or ditching the desktop and going laptop only, with a TiBook maxed out on RAM. I have a little time because I'm tentatively planning to hold off until MWSF'03 on making a buying decision. We'll see by then what the G4 processor upgrade cards, depreciation in the value of my current system, lack of space in my apartment for a desktop, and new laptop introductions all do to my final decision.
1) G3 can't handle as much as G4 processor (if you can prove me wrong on this, please do, and I will go for the iBook) and you can upgrade the memory on the TiBook to a gig compared to only 640MB.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It goes without saying that a G4 can outrun a G3, all else being equal. On a TiBook, things aren't equal, because the front side bus and the RAM are faster than the iBook's. However, what matters is whether the CPU is adequate to the tasks you're asking it to do.
640MB vs. 1GB RAM is not that big a deal with OS X. You won't notice anything over 512MB unless you're doing a tremendous amount of work all at once.
[quote]<strong>So in other words, it would last me at least 4 years, when the iBook will be out of date in 2.5 years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Obsolescence is determined by real world use. If you will use your laptop to model the effect on global weather patterns of a 100 Megaton nuclear bomb dropped into a hurricane, you will find yourself replacing a top-of-the-line TiBook very quickly. If, on the other hand, you use your notebook to run basic productivity apps (word processor, email, etc.) either one could plausibly last you for ten years (that's how long my mother ran Word 5.1 on a PowerBook 145b).
So, the most important question is, what do you plan on using the 'book for?
[quote]<strong>2)I am also a college student with lack of money, but I also think how you can hook up another monitor to your laptop and get extra real estate space is really worth it. With the iBook, you can only do mirroring. Since the TiBook will be my primary computer in college for the next 4 years, I think it's worth it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you'll be using applications that benefit from real estate (e.g., any of the palette-intensive graphics apps), certainly. If you'll be running AppleWorks, well, not really.
[quote]<strong>3) After MWNY I think they are going to make a 700Mhz low end Ti model and the 667 will be no longer manufactured.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, Apple is fond of making the CPU speed in the new low end equal to the speed of the old top end, so I'd predict an 800MHz low end laptop after the line is refreshed.
[quote]<strong>Making the price to about 2000 for a 667Mhz with student discount. So I spend like 400 more for a lot more features than what the iBook will give me. Unless of course they make the iBook a 1Ghz for MWNY or add a faster vid card, I am sticking to my decision to buy a TiBook.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you're happy with a used machine, go for it. I think the warranty options are better on the new ones, but I could be wrong.
[quote]<strong>Also, if anyone has any benchmarks of a 667Mhz G4 vs. 700Mhz G3, please tell me if the difference is significant or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
In Word or AppleWorks? No. In Final Cut Pro or PhotoShop? Hell yes.
Thanks amorph. I use my laptop for browsing, chat, watching dvd, watching divxs, mp3s, computer programming in java with Jbuilder(which runs slow on my iBook 500, 320MB, 66Mhz bus), games, photoshop, checking e-mail, writing diaries, making stickies and syncing my palm. i would like it if i could do 5-6 of these things w/o losing performance. Do you think iBook 700 can handle that or TiBook ???Mhz?
<strong>Do you think iBook 700 can handle that or TiBook ???Mhz?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Personally I run DreamweaverMX, IE, Mail, iTunes, Appleworks, and Photoshop 7 all at the same time all day long at work. I don't have any performance problems whatsoever. I occasionally have to load classic for things like Quark, and that runs fine as well.
I just checked and Apple says that all models can be upgraded to up to 640 Megs of RAM. Isn't that a strange amount? The 14.1 inch 700 MHz model has 256 Megs of RAM. The book has two slots, right? So if that model has a 256 Megs module and I inserted a 512 Megs module into the other slot, 128 Megs would be wasted. Or does it have two 128 Megs modules, so I would have to remove one of them to be able to insert any additional RAM? Sounds just as stupid to me.
So... what will I do on the iBook. The typical office stuff, of course, perhaps smaller bits of gaming (how does Q3A perform on the 700 MHz model, assuming enough RAM? will Doom 3 "work" on it?), Photoshopping, sometimes running Virtual PC (how well will that work?) and compiling Mozilla (how long will that take? takes about two to three hours on my Athlon/500).
I'd also be interested in benchmarks, couldn't find any benchmark related to the new 700 model.
The machines with 256 MB of RAM are shipping with 128 MB built in plus a 128 MB module. Removing the 128 MB module and replacing it with a 512 MB module boosts the memory to 640 MB. (128 + 512 = 640) There is only one slot on the machine ...
[quote]Originally posted by Chucker:
<strong>I just checked and Apple says that all models can be upgraded to up to 640 Megs of RAM. Isn't that a strange amount? The 14.1 inch 700 MHz model has 256 Megs of RAM. The book has two slots, right? So if that model has a 256 Megs module and I inserted a 512 Megs module into the other slot, 128 Megs would be wasted. Or does it have two 128 Megs modules, so I would have to remove one of them to be able to insert any additional RAM? Sounds just as stupid to me.
So... what will I do on the iBook. The typical office stuff, of course, perhaps smaller bits of gaming (how does Q3A perform on the 700 MHz model, assuming enough RAM? will Doom 3 "work" on it?), Photoshopping, sometimes running Virtual PC (how well will that work?) and compiling Mozilla (how long will that take? takes about two to three hours on my Athlon/500).
I'd also be interested in benchmarks, couldn't find any benchmark related to the new 700 model.</strong><hr></blockquote>
...I just checked and Apple says that all models can be upgraded to up to 640 Megs of RAM. Isn't that a strange amount?...
...how does Q3A perform on the 700 MHz model...
...will Doom 3 "work" on it?),
</strong><hr></blockquote>
In order from above i'll try to answer these for you...
1.) There is 128MB RAM soldered on the MB in all current iBooks. If you get 256 from Apple, the other 128 just fills the expansion slot. The reason that 640 is the max, is because the MB in the iBook can only handle sticks up to 512MB. That in turn equals a max of 640MB.
2.) My iBook 700 w/384 RAM runs Q3 fine. I get between 45-65 FPS in 1024x768. This is in OS 9 though. I just downloaded the update to allow Q3 run in OS X without "Classic." So I don't know how that will perform yet, as I have not yet ran it.
3.) As for Doom 3 running on the iBook, it's just too early to tell right now.
<strong>Thanks amorph. I use my laptop for browsing, chat, watching dvd, watching divxs, mp3s, computer programming in java with Jbuilder(which runs slow on my iBook 500, 320MB, 66Mhz bus), games, photoshop, checking e-mail, writing diaries, making stickies and syncing my palm. i would like it if i could do 5-6 of these things w/o losing performance. Do you think iBook 700 can handle that or TiBook ???Mhz?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd say both. RAM is more important than CPU for smooth multitasking. You'll see a significant jump in performance from the iBook 500 to the iBook 700. The best way to find out is to hie thee to an Apple Store and play with them, of course. But if my 450MHz G4 can handle that sort of workload without blinking, I don't see why a 700MHz G3 couldn't.
Java performance is as much a software problem as a hardware problem, especially if the app uses the Awful Windowing Toolkit.
[quote]<strong>Oh yeah, VPC 5 and sometimes classic</strong><hr></blockquote>
Neither exploits AltiVec much (VPC does, but not to any great extent). The TiBook will of course be faster, but probably not by any remarkable margin. The iBook should have no trouble running them smoothly (given that VPC 5 isn't a speed demon on just about any hardware...).
Love the iBook. super portable, cool running, screen is fine (if your under 40, otherwise get the 14"). Runs X well but I reccommend you go for 640MB of ram (not from apple of course).
great little laptop, even running vpc is bearable.
<strong>The machines with 256 MB of RAM are shipping with 128 MB built in plus a 128 MB module. Removing the 128 MB module and replacing it with a 512 MB module boosts the memory to 640 MB. (128 + 512 = 640) There is only one slot on the machine ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ooo hoo, my ibook is here (exciting since I am a PC user)! I have downloaded the 10.1.5 patch and am playing with it. The 256MB of RAM is arriving today and the airport card later this week. It is very good so far although I would have too say it seems slower than my Sony VAIO laptop (also 700 mhz). What is a good cross-platform benchmark?
More importantly, the Sony lets me perform certain actions through the trackpad that I miss sorely on the iBook. For example, sliding your finger left and right on the top edge of pad is equivalent to internet back and forward, up and down on the right edge is scroll up and down, etc. This saves much unnecessary finger movements! Any such utility on OS X? TIA.
There isn't a good cross-platform benchmark. On any pure test of number crunching with the exact same algorithm optimally coded on each system the PowerPC will perform better. In general, though, the instruction set you're running on one machine is obviously completely different than on the other. They were generated by different compilers written by entirely different people. The Mac and PC may well use different algorithms, which can mean the difference between seconds and minutes.
Most importantly, you will certainly be forced into using different procedures. Who knows how many hors you'll save or waste because of the Mac way of doing things? Hours, not milliseconds while a windows is dragging. You'll only know after a year or two using the iBook, and then only intuitively. It may or may not be for you.
Comments
1) G3 can't handle as much as G4 processor (if you can prove me wrong on this, please do, and I will go for the iBook) and you can upgrade the memory on the TiBook to a gig compared to only 640MB. So in other words, it would last me at least 4 years, when the iBook will be out of date in 2.5 years. Plus, I could probably get one off ebay or a maybe a refurbished one cheaper than what it is at now.
2)I am also a college student with lack of money, but I also think how you can hook up another monitor to your laptop and get extra real estate space is really worth it. With the iBook, you can only do mirroring. Since the TiBook will be my primary computer in college for the next 4 years, I think it's worth it. The 14" iBooks look so bad compared to the beautiful 12" and because 12" is not large enough for me as an everyday computer, I am going for the TiBook.
3) After MWNY I think they are going to make a 700Mhz low end Ti model and the 667 will be no longer manufactured. Making the price to about 2000 for a 667Mhz with student discount. So I spend like 400 more for a lot more features than what the iBook will give me. Unless of course they make the iBook a 1Ghz for MWNY or add a faster vid card, I am sticking to my decision to buy a TiBook.
Also, if anyone has any benchmarks of a 667Mhz G4 vs. 700Mhz G3, please tell me if the difference is significant or not.
I travel a great deal and would be lost without my 500 iBook. It has shown itself to be bulletproof and a good performer. Must admit however that the 700 would sure be nice. My brother just got one and it is much faster. Gets a lot hotter as well.
Go for the iBook.
Allen - how exactly would one do that? I am in the market for a new computer, debating iMac and iBook, but this technology might be enough to make the decision easy.
I feel very out of the loop, but I am very intrigued.
So I have to balance my choice between keeping my PowerMac G4/466 with 1.25 GB of RAM and GeForce2 graphics as my desktop and adding an iBook for the portable; or ditching the desktop and going laptop only, with a TiBook maxed out on RAM. I have a little time because I'm tentatively planning to hold off until MWSF'03 on making a buying decision. We'll see by then what the G4 processor upgrade cards, depreciation in the value of my current system, lack of space in my apartment for a desktop, and new laptop introductions all do to my final decision.
<strong>
1) G3 can't handle as much as G4 processor (if you can prove me wrong on this, please do, and I will go for the iBook) and you can upgrade the memory on the TiBook to a gig compared to only 640MB.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It goes without saying that a G4 can outrun a G3, all else being equal. On a TiBook, things aren't equal, because the front side bus and the RAM are faster than the iBook's. However, what matters is whether the CPU is adequate to the tasks you're asking it to do.
640MB vs. 1GB RAM is not that big a deal with OS X. You won't notice anything over 512MB unless you're doing a tremendous amount of work all at once.
[quote]<strong>So in other words, it would last me at least 4 years, when the iBook will be out of date in 2.5 years.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Obsolescence is determined by real world use. If you will use your laptop to model the effect on global weather patterns of a 100 Megaton nuclear bomb dropped into a hurricane, you will find yourself replacing a top-of-the-line TiBook very quickly.
So, the most important question is, what do you plan on using the 'book for?
[quote]<strong>2)I am also a college student with lack of money, but I also think how you can hook up another monitor to your laptop and get extra real estate space is really worth it. With the iBook, you can only do mirroring. Since the TiBook will be my primary computer in college for the next 4 years, I think it's worth it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you'll be using applications that benefit from real estate (e.g., any of the palette-intensive graphics apps), certainly. If you'll be running AppleWorks, well, not really.
[quote]<strong>3) After MWNY I think they are going to make a 700Mhz low end Ti model and the 667 will be no longer manufactured.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, Apple is fond of making the CPU speed in the new low end equal to the speed of the old top end, so I'd predict an 800MHz low end laptop after the line is refreshed.
[quote]<strong>Making the price to about 2000 for a 667Mhz with student discount. So I spend like 400 more for a lot more features than what the iBook will give me. Unless of course they make the iBook a 1Ghz for MWNY or add a faster vid card, I am sticking to my decision to buy a TiBook.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you're happy with a used machine, go for it. I think the warranty options are better on the new ones, but I could be wrong.
[quote]<strong>Also, if anyone has any benchmarks of a 667Mhz G4 vs. 700Mhz G3, please tell me if the difference is significant or not.</strong><hr></blockquote>
In Word or AppleWorks? No. In Final Cut Pro or PhotoShop? Hell yes.
[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
<strong>...wait till mwny, that ibooks 66mhz bus is killing the performance.</strong><hr></blockquote>
No currently shipping iBook has a 66MHz bus.
Oh yeah, VPC 5 and sometimes classic
[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: Macasaurus ]</p>
<strong>Do you think iBook 700 can handle that or TiBook ???Mhz?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Personally I run DreamweaverMX, IE, Mail, iTunes, Appleworks, and Photoshop 7 all at the same time all day long at work. I don't have any performance problems whatsoever. I occasionally have to load classic for things like Quark, and that runs fine as well.
I have the iBook 700/384RAM/30GB/Combo/12.1"
So... what will I do on the iBook. The typical office stuff, of course, perhaps smaller bits of gaming (how does Q3A perform on the 700 MHz model, assuming enough RAM? will Doom 3 "work" on it?), Photoshopping, sometimes running Virtual PC (how well will that work?) and compiling Mozilla (how long will that take? takes about two to three hours on my Athlon/500).
I'd also be interested in benchmarks, couldn't find any benchmark related to the new 700 model.
[quote]Originally posted by Chucker:
<strong>I just checked and Apple says that all models can be upgraded to up to 640 Megs of RAM. Isn't that a strange amount? The 14.1 inch 700 MHz model has 256 Megs of RAM. The book has two slots, right? So if that model has a 256 Megs module and I inserted a 512 Megs module into the other slot, 128 Megs would be wasted. Or does it have two 128 Megs modules, so I would have to remove one of them to be able to insert any additional RAM? Sounds just as stupid to me.
So... what will I do on the iBook. The typical office stuff, of course, perhaps smaller bits of gaming (how does Q3A perform on the 700 MHz model, assuming enough RAM? will Doom 3 "work" on it?), Photoshopping, sometimes running Virtual PC (how well will that work?) and compiling Mozilla (how long will that take? takes about two to three hours on my Athlon/500).
I'd also be interested in benchmarks, couldn't find any benchmark related to the new 700 model.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>
...I just checked and Apple says that all models can be upgraded to up to 640 Megs of RAM. Isn't that a strange amount?...
...how does Q3A perform on the 700 MHz model...
...will Doom 3 "work" on it?),
</strong><hr></blockquote>
In order from above i'll try to answer these for you...
1.) There is 128MB RAM soldered on the MB in all current iBooks. If you get 256 from Apple, the other 128 just fills the expansion slot. The reason that 640 is the max, is because the MB in the iBook can only handle sticks up to 512MB. That in turn equals a max of 640MB.
2.) My iBook 700 w/384 RAM runs Q3 fine. I get between 45-65 FPS in 1024x768. This is in OS 9 though. I just downloaded the update to allow Q3 run in OS X without "Classic." So I don't know how that will perform yet, as I have not yet ran it.
3.) As for Doom 3 running on the iBook, it's just too early to tell right now.
<strong>Thanks amorph. I use my laptop for browsing, chat, watching dvd, watching divxs, mp3s, computer programming in java with Jbuilder(which runs slow on my iBook 500, 320MB, 66Mhz bus), games, photoshop, checking e-mail, writing diaries, making stickies and syncing my palm. i would like it if i could do 5-6 of these things w/o losing performance. Do you think iBook 700 can handle that or TiBook ???Mhz?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd say both. RAM is more important than CPU for smooth multitasking. You'll see a significant jump in performance from the iBook 500 to the iBook 700. The best way to find out is to hie thee to an Apple Store and play with them, of course.
Java performance is as much a software problem as a hardware problem, especially if the app uses the Awful Windowing Toolkit.
[quote]<strong>Oh yeah, VPC 5 and sometimes classic</strong><hr></blockquote>
Neither exploits AltiVec much (VPC does, but not to any great extent). The TiBook will of course be faster, but probably not by any remarkable margin. The iBook should have no trouble running them smoothly (given that VPC 5 isn't a speed demon on just about any hardware...).
great little laptop, even running vpc is bearable.
good luck.
<strong>The machines with 256 MB of RAM are shipping with 128 MB built in plus a 128 MB module. Removing the 128 MB module and replacing it with a 512 MB module boosts the memory to 640 MB. (128 + 512 = 640) There is only one slot on the machine ...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ah. Now it makes sense.
<strong>I just ran the OS X patch for Q3, and it runs perfectly. In OS X running Q3 at 1024x768, i'm getting 60+ FPS.</strong><hr></blockquote>
More importantly, the Sony lets me perform certain actions through the trackpad that I miss sorely on the iBook. For example, sliding your finger left and right on the top edge of pad is equivalent to internet back and forward, up and down on the right edge is scroll up and down, etc. This saves much unnecessary finger movements! Any such utility on OS X? TIA.
Most importantly, you will certainly be forced into using different procedures. Who knows how many hors you'll save or waste because of the Mac way of doing things? Hours, not milliseconds while a windows is dragging. You'll only know after a year or two using the iBook, and then only intuitively. It may or may not be for you.