What machine to buy for a gamer?
Okay, just to get it out of the way early I know already that a hard core gamer buys a Windows machine or an X-Box. I will do neither, so don't even bother. I despise Windows and rather like Macs 
I game on my iMac rev. A, which was fine for the first year, but has now gotten to the point where even when a game does come out for Mac (still too rare and often too late), my video chipset isn't supported. Heck, recent games demand more processor and RAM than I've got too.
I mostly play RTS, although I'll be playing Neverwinter nights when it comes out on Mac. I don't play a lot of "shooters" and I don't really care what my FPS is, as long as I don't get chop or lag.
I need a desktop machine that will work fairly well. I'm conflicted between eMac, iMac and low-end G4. I'm not rich, so the more I spend this year, the longer I'll have to make this system last. By my financial estimates, I'd need to make an eMac last 2 years, an iMac last 2.5 years and a G4 last at least 4 years (even five if I got it loaded up). So is the cache and expandability of a G4 worth an extra 2 years of waiting for my next full system? Does the lack of a basic software bundle on the G4 hit the pocketbook more?
So ladies and Gentlemen, I'd appreciate your suggestions/advice on value for the dollar for a system that will see it's most intensive use gaming (I'm not a video editor, desktop publisher or anything like that).
I game on my iMac rev. A, which was fine for the first year, but has now gotten to the point where even when a game does come out for Mac (still too rare and often too late), my video chipset isn't supported. Heck, recent games demand more processor and RAM than I've got too.I mostly play RTS, although I'll be playing Neverwinter nights when it comes out on Mac. I don't play a lot of "shooters" and I don't really care what my FPS is, as long as I don't get chop or lag.
I need a desktop machine that will work fairly well. I'm conflicted between eMac, iMac and low-end G4. I'm not rich, so the more I spend this year, the longer I'll have to make this system last. By my financial estimates, I'd need to make an eMac last 2 years, an iMac last 2.5 years and a G4 last at least 4 years (even five if I got it loaded up). So is the cache and expandability of a G4 worth an extra 2 years of waiting for my next full system? Does the lack of a basic software bundle on the G4 hit the pocketbook more?
So ladies and Gentlemen, I'd appreciate your suggestions/advice on value for the dollar for a system that will see it's most intensive use gaming (I'm not a video editor, desktop publisher or anything like that).
Comments
Oh, if you REALLY want to game on your Mac, wait till after Macworld and there should be new towers out. Don't get an i/eMac because they won't last you 2+ years since you can't upgrade the lousy GeForce 2MX. Go with a tower and you will be able to upgrade the video card and maybe the processor too. A new video card in a couple of years will be a lot cheaper than getting a new computer, plus the PowerMacs have a higher bus speed. A G4 tower is DEFINATELY the way to go.
Anyone prepared to argue for an eMac every 2 years, or is everyone on board that a low-end G4 tower is the way to go for the next 4?
Why spend $1000 to upgrade to a newer eMac, when a new $300 video card would give you much higher gains.
And I don't want to mention how much better the current PowerMac's Radeon 7500 is compared to the eMac's GF2MX. eMac just isn't close enough to the cutting edge to satisfy a gamer.
And by waiting for newer PowerMacs you're almost guaranteed a GF4MX on the low-end. Apple could even feel generous use a Radeon 8500 instead.
Either way, the PowerMac is the way to go.
On a more personal note, it's nice to see a gamer who still uses Macs exclusively. I'm afraid people like us are becoming a rare bread.
I get the feeling that most of the people who post here are simply PC users who used to own a Mac and now enjoy sharing their bitterness with the rest of us while ranting on about Apple's looming demise.
I guess it's their way of convincing themselves they made the right decision. Oh well...
Still, there are a lot more real Mac users than in other places so called ?Mac? communities I've posted in. Atleast here, there are enough people like me.
Power Mac G4 800Mhz
+You can upgrade the video card
+You can upgrade the processor
+3 RAM slots
+Ability to have multiple monitors
-Radeon 7500 dual that comes installed only has 32 MB of RAM
-<a href="http://www.sonystyle.com/home/item.jsp?itemid=9011&hierc=9683x76x9704&catid="; target="_blank">Sony Flat Screen 17" CRT</a> costs $300
-Only comes with 256 MB of RAM
-Comes with 40 GB Hard drive
-Base model has CD-RW drive
-Comes with no speakers (besides the p.o.s. built-in one)
- Right now the Pro line of products is barely ahead of the consumer line
iMac G4 800Mhz/17" Widescreen Flat Panel
+Has a beautiful 17"
widescreen flat panel LCD
+Comes with GeForce 4MX w/ 64MB of RAM
+Comes with 80 GB Hard drive
+Comes with SuperDrive
+Comes with Apple Pro Speakers
-Only comes with 256 MB of RAM
-Only 2 RAM slots
-Can't upgrade video card (but the one it has should last you quite awhile)
-Can only use the hard drive you order with it (no multiple hard drives)
-Only can use 1 monitor (the one it comes with!)
-$$$$ This thing is a little pricey but I think more than worth it.
_________________________________________
Let's upgrade the Power Mac to the level of the iMac:
Summary
? 800MHz PowerPC G4
? 256MB SDRAM - 1 DIMM
? 80GB Ultra ATA drive
? Apple SuperDrive
? NVIDIA GeForce4 MX dual
? Apple Studio Display (17" flat panel, NOT WIDESCREEN!)
? 56K internal modem
? Apple Pro Speakers
? Apple Pro Keyboard - U.S. English
? Mac OS - U.S. English
Subtotal-$3,057
__________________________________________
I bought (in March) a 933 Mhz Tower with 17" display costing me over $3,000. When I see the new iMac which has a better display than mine and has a GeForce 4 MX (I wouldn't buy an iMac because the GeForce 2 MX is way outdated) for $1,000 less, I kick myself for not waiting. The tower might be more practical for you, but in my opinion, dollar wise, the iMac has a better value.
<strong>
Power Mac G4 800Mhz
-Radeon 7500 dual that comes installed only has 32 MB of RAM
+L3 cache
17" iMac G4
+Comes with GeForce 4MX w/ 64MB of RAM
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Two things to nitpick here:
1. The Lowend tower does not have L3 cache (in fact it has the exact same chip as the iMac). But, the tower should still be faster because of the 133 Mhz bus.
2. The GF4 MX in the iMac only comes with 32 MB of RAM, not 64. And, while the GF4 MX is theoretically faster than the Radeon 7500, the fact that the Radeon 7500 is on a 4x AGP bus (versus the 2x bus of the iMac) makes that a moot point.
That said, I concur with buy a lowend PowerMac in August. By then, you might even be able to get a Radeon 9000 in it, and there's a decent chance the prices of the LCDs might come down.
Oh man that SUCKS! When I saw it had a GeForce 4 MX, I automatically assumed it had 64 MB of RAM. Why would Apple do that? What's the point of having a 4 MX without the extra RAM.
+Has a beautiful 17"
widescreen flat panel LCD<hr></blockquote>
moot point for a gamer. The LCD is a 1440 x 960 or something resolutions, which very few games will support. You're gonna be stuck with either black bars or stretched images.
[quote]+Comes with GeForce 4MX w/ 64MB of RAM<hr></blockquote>
Besides the fact that it doesn't, the GF4MX is a sucky video card in the first place. It is not a GeForce 4 by any means. It is merely a souped-up GeForce 2, and is not even as advanced as the low end GeForce 3. Granted though, it is better than the GeForce 2 MX by a longshot, and slightly better than the Radeon 7500.
[quote]+Comes with 80 GB Hard drive<hr></blockquote>
But can't have more than one.
[quote]+Comes with SuperDrive<hr></blockquote>
Superdrive: Jack of all trades, master of none.
[quote]+Comes with Apple Pro Speakers<hr></blockquote>
I think most gamers would upgrade the pro speakers anyway with a decent pair of headphones or a 4.1+ system, provided they have a sound card (has the SB Live! ever gotten decent drivers?).
[quote]-Only comes with 256 MB of RAM<hr></blockquote>
And PC100, at that.
[quote]-Only 2 RAM slots<hr></blockquote>
At least one of which only takes SODIMMs.
[quote]-Can't upgrade video card (but the one it has should last you quite awhile)<hr></blockquote>
The GF4MX is a generation behind the Radeon 8500, GeForce 3, and GeForce 4 Ti. It is two generations behind the new Radeon 9700. I would not recommend buying a GF4MX to anyone, unless it was their only option.
[quote]-Can only use the hard drive you order with it (no multiple hard drives)<hr></blockquote>
Yep.
[quote]-Only can use 1 monitor (the one it comes with!)<hr></blockquote>
Which is a pretty bad gaming monitor to start with. LCDs are not fun for gaming since you cannot change to a resolution lower (except at 0.5 ratios) without a substantial quality hit, an since a GF4MX cannot power games decently at a res like 1440 x 960, you're stuck with either a lousy framerate or muddy resolutions. The fact that the native screen res is widescreen only complicates this.
[quote]-$$$$ This thing is a little pricey but I think more than worth it.
<hr></blockquote>
All of the features of the iMac are nice for a home user, but terrible for a gamer.
I'd STRONGLY recommend building a gaming PC, as you can get about 2X the gaming performance for around half the price plus the best possible upgrade path known to mankind, and it's fun to build computers.
But since you are bonded to the Macintosh platform against your own will, I guess the PowerMac will have to do.
Be sure you buy a nice 19" CRT to go with your computer. IMHO, 19" CRTs are the best for gaming. Good blend of price and quality, plus, the bigger you go, the less you can see on the screen at one time, which may be okay for normal users, but not for gamers.
Good luck.
Buy a PC.
Okay, I'll crawl back into my hole now.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Look at some reviews between ATi and nVidia models. Almost all of them show the nVidia's slightly eeking out the ATi's in terms of raw speed, but the ATi's producing much nicer, glitch free renders, as well as much finer DVD support.
My verdict is to go with the ATi. You may have a few less frames per second, but the quality you'll get will far outshine that of the GeForce.
The voodooPC site is very nice, though.
<strong>
I'd STRONGLY recommend building a gaming PC, as you can get about 2X the gaming performance for around half the price plus the best possible upgrade path known to mankind, and it's fun to build computers.
But since you are bonded to the Macintosh platform against your own will, I guess the PowerMac will have to do.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I appreciate everyone's opinions, whether it was the caring Mac Evangelists trying to keep me in the fold, or the honest, straightforward PC gamers who were willling to tell me what I think I already knew deep down.
Unfortunately, I suppose, I've decided to go with a PC for awhile, a choice I'm afraid a lot of Mac Users who are neither rich nor zealots are going to make this year if they feel they need a new system. The link below is part of a set of posts of what I think I need, and by extension many average users who sometimes game need to make MacOS their home for the next few years.
<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=002050;p=2#000 076" target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=002050;p=2#000 076</a>
For the PC savey who may be curious, I went with an Athlon 2100+, 512 MB 266Mhz DDR (1 chip, 2 slots still open), 80 GB 7200 rpm HD, CD-RW, DVD-Rom (two drives), and otherwise basic spec. Video will be an above-average quality 19" CRT (.25 dpi, 75 Hz 1600 X 1200 at 75 Hz) with a GF 2 MX 400 (64 MB) video card.
I know the GF 2 card sucks, but I got it *very* cheap, and I'll be getting either the new high-end ATI beastie that will be released in August or I'll pick up a Ti 4600 as the price continues to drop.
And for the record, I bought my new system including display for about 60% the price of a similarly equipped G4 800 (with no display included, 133 Mhz SDRAM and a slower processor by any standard).
Still, I am really, really hoping that my next computer (probably spring 2004) will be a Mac. I really am willing to pay up to 20% more than PC for comparable hardware. Apple just has to get to work on the comparable hardware and the price-point (G4 systems are more like 100% more, especially at the higher end). I hope the move to PC is temporary. But for now Apple has lost my money for 2002.
[ 07-23-2002: Message edited by: WilsonStark ]
[ 07-23-2002: Message edited by: WilsonStark ]</p>