Good games are games that sell well, by definition. And both those games are supposed to be a lot of fun to play, unless you are an angst filled teenage boy - in which case stay with your DOA4 or Halo or whatever.
Ok, they might be fun to play if you are an angst filled teenage girl. Sadly, I am neither a teenage girl nor teenage boy but in the group of 20-something occasional gamer - a group that children's games just don't satisfy.
Even though this is an APPLE forum, I feel it is necessary to address all of this slaming on Nintendo. In a previous post, I read that games like "Nintendogs" and "Animal Crossing" are not good games; however, in the same post a mention of how Nintendo is not for the mass market...right... Nintendogs, animal crossing, and Brain age are among the select few games of all time that have apealed to the mass market. What is the top selling video game of all time? Mario Bros. 1 (Mario 3 is the top selling video game not bundled with a system and Mario is the top selling game series of all time). That's right, a Nintendo game. Most of the hottest game right now are made by Nintendo.
Now, about the design of the DS. I really wish people would not use their own opinions as back up for their arguments. As of right now, The DS has massivly outsold the PSP. Why? Because Nintendo dares to innovate. Sounds like Apple doesn't it. The PSP is basically the same exact thing as all of the other games that we have played for the past 20 years. Nothing new. Speaking of which, I believe I also read that all of Nintendo's games have been sequals or what not. What are the biggest games on PS2 or XBOX (by the way, I sure hope nobody who speaks of the DS as ugly can support the XBOX or the 360, both the ugliest things ever made)? Sequals...Final Fantasy, Halo (or every FPS), GTA...the list goes on.
So back to apple. To answer the thread, the reason Apple is at E3 is for marketing. This is a BIG event, so why not be there. However, before everyone jumps on the video game industry bandwagon...hardcore gamers only constitute a small fraction of the demographics; however, Apple wants to appear as a cool company, and that is why they will appear at E3.
Even though this is an APPLE forum, I feel it is necessary to address all of this slaming on Nintendo.
The subject is still relevant because someone suggested the reason for Apple being at E3 was a link up with Nintedo.
Quote:
Originally posted by pugnax
What is the top selling video game of all time? Mario Bros. 1 (Mario 3 is the top selling video game not bundled with a system and Mario is the top selling game series of all time). That's right, a Nintendo game.
That's what I said. The only thing keeping Nintendo alive is that legacy. Those Nintendo games came out over 16 years ago.
Quote:
Originally posted by pugnax
Most of the hottest game right now are made by Nintendo.
I doubt that:
2005 best selling games-
US Console Top Ten 2005 (NPD)
1. Madden NFL 06 (PS2) - 2,900,000
2. Pokemon Emerald (GBA) - 1,700,000
3. Gran Turismo 4 (PS2) - 1,500,000
4. Madden NFL 06 (Xbox) - 1,200,000
5. NCAA Football 06 (PS2) - 1,100,000
6. Star Wars: Battlefront II (PS2) - 1,000,000
7. MVP Baseball 2005 (PS2) - 970,000
8. Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (PS2) - 930,000
9. NBA Live 06 (PS2) - 820,000
10. LEGO Star Wars (PS2) - 800,000
and surprise surprise it's a Pokemon game from Nintendo. IGN has a list of most popular current games and there are about 5-10 Nintendo in the top 100. Guess what they are. You guessed it: Zelda, Mario, Metroid Prime, Harvest Moon in various versions.
Now I'm not saying sequels don't have their place but when you are pushing sequels to games from nearly two decades ago then you lack innovation.
Quote:
Originally posted by pugnax
Now, about the design of the DS. I really wish people would not use their own opinions as back up for their arguments.
What would you rather they use? The idea that since Nintendo are doing something different they must be better? Different is only better when it works better.
Quote:
Originally posted by pugnax
As of right now, The DS has massivly outsold the PSP. Why? Because Nintendo dares to innovate.
Or maybe Japanese people prefer stupid games and there are far more of them. The UK figures are different:
More than 185,000 PSPs were sold in its first four days in UK shops, say official Chart-Track figures.
Rival handheld, the Nintendo DS, sold 87,000 in its launch week in March.
Statistics don't cover a cultural divide. Remember Apple is a US company.
Quote:
Originally posted by pugnax
The PSP is basically the same exact thing as all of the other games that we have played for the past 20 years. Nothing new.
Well, when you reach a design that works, it's sometimes better to stick to it than change the design for the purposes of hype. Did Apple change the imac, powerbook, ibook, Mini designs for the Intels?
Quote:
Originally posted by pugnax
I believe I also read that all of Nintendo's games have been sequals or what not. What are the biggest games on PS2 or XBOX (by the way. Sequals...Final Fantasy, Halo (or every FPS), GTA...the list goes on.
Yeah sequels in their 3rd or so incarnation, not 15th with the exception of Final Fantasy, which is a Nintendo game anyway.
Quote:
Originally posted by pugnax
I sure hope nobody who speaks of the DS as ugly can support the XBOX or the 360, both the ugliest things ever made)?
The Xbox 360 isn't too bad. The Xbox and DS are damn ugly.
To be honest, at E3 I would rather see Apple hook up with Sony to offer PSP games from itunes. It would be a shock if they hooked up with M$ to sell Xbox games. Maybe one day itunes will become the new Amazon but with the edge of serving direct media content.
I thought i'd chime in on all this Nintendo bashing....
1. the DS is "new"...its unlike any portable gaming console out there. the PSP is a backwards console with beefier specs. The DS also happens to have a lot of new games that appeal to women, kids, seniors and your average gamer, as opposed to the PSP that ONLY appeals to middle aged geeky men.
2. The DS Lite is very reminicent of Apple design...it reminds me of an iBook. it's lighter, smaller, brighter and has better battery life than the PSP.
3. It has "new" games....sure its got sequels and ports...but it has a lot of new IPs as well. as opposed to ONLY having PS2 ports on the PSP....oh and also, every other game on the DS is not just another racing game like on the PSP.
4. The DS is cheaper, both for consumers and developers.
5. It has a free online Nitwork, courtecy of Nintendo. The PSP does NOT have an online network.
You can complain about "sequels" all you want. Every generation of Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Donkey Kong differ vastly from previous generations....the characters might look the same, but every game has introduced a new control mechanic or interface that everyone else has copied and repackaged eventually. Unlike the sequels on the other consoles, which are essentially different "skins" on the same old game again and again with no innovative titles anywhere in sight...that is, until Nintendo invents it, and they copy it.
Whether it's shoulder buttons, analog control, rumble or wireless.....every other manufacturer has copied those UI elements into their following generation consoles.
You got industry heavyweights like Microsoft and Sony *trying* to play the game now....so what have they improved about gaming ? apart from HD, whats different about the XB360 over the XBox, and the PS3 over the PS2 ? beefier specs ? great....it's like having a G5 and running DOS on it. they arent doing anything with it. theyre so great, and yet they cannot innovate or take risks.....and then you have Nintendo i nthe other corner..... taking chances, making strides and appealing to everyone, wich isnt easy. Sony and M$ are such niche players it's rediculious. And it shows...look at the ROI that Nintendo enjoys, then look at Microsoft...practically paying people to take their console home....and Sony, just barely into the black despite investing so much into beefier specs.
Nintendo is the Apple of the gaming world. it's not about marketshare, or profit, it's about innovating and doing things differently and generating fun for everyone as opposed to the 3G formula(grit, guns and girls) which appeals only to middle-aged-geeky-men. As opposed to riding the coat tails of other company's successes and constantly copying.
1. the DS is "new"...its unlike any portable gaming console out there.
Yup, it's ugly. No wait, so is the gameboy advance.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
The DS also happens to have a lot of new games that appeal to women, kids, seniors and your average gamer, as opposed to the PSP that ONLY appeals to middle aged geeky men.
LMAO, yeah the only people buying PSPs are middle-aged men. All the 40+ year old men queuing up in the store. Keep dreamin'.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
2. The DS Lite is very reminicent of Apple design...it reminds me of an iBook. it's lighter, smaller, brighter and has better battery life than the PSP.
But the ibook looks nice. As for the screen, don't even think you're going to convince me or anyone who knows what Sony's display technology is like that the DS is better on that front.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
3. It has "new" games....sure its got sequels and ports...but it has a lot of new IPs as well. as opposed to ONLY having PS2 ports on the PSP....oh and also, every other game on the DS is not just another racing game like on the PSP.
If the DS was powerful enough, it would have gamecube ports but it's not. It's only powerful enough to handle N64 games. Also, from what I can gather, the PSP has a far better game selection than the DS. People keep saying they only have stereotypical games but from the games listings that's clearly not true. If anything it's true about Nintendo. Yes, you do have more games in the same genre but that's called choice, which the DS does not provide.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
4. The DS is cheaper, both for consumers and developers.
Not by much. Games are typically £10 cheaper and the machine is about £50 cheaper. But you can play movies on a PSP, it has a larger and far nicer display and the gaming is far better.
On a PSP, I can blaze through the streets at 200mph and cause millions of dollars worth of damage (and no the DS version of Burnout isn't the same), on a DS I can treat patients' wounds by scrubbing them with the touch display, yay.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
5. It has a free online Nitwork, courtecy of Nintendo. The PSP does NOT have an online network.
Advantage DS.
DS 1 - PSP 457.
But who needs a network? I have real friends. I only play games when I am bored and alone.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
Unlike the sequels on the other consoles, which are essentially different "skins" on the same old game again and again with no innovative titles anywhere in sight...that is, until Nintendo invents it, and they copy it.
Name the innovative titles and their innovation. If you can come up with 5, I'll leave Nintendo alone.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
Whether it's shoulder buttons, analog control, rumble or wireless.....every other manufacturer has copied those UI elements into their following generation consoles.
True but we are still talking about two-decade legacy here.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
You got industry heavyweights like Microsoft and Sony *trying* to play the game now....so what have they improved about gaming ?
What have Nintendo improved? The PS2 had the dance mat and the eyetoy. Different but they suck IMO just like Nintendo's bongo drums.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
it's like having a G5 and running DOS on it.
Where do your analogies come from? PSP is like running a PS2 in a stylish, powerful portable machine. The DS is like running an N64 on a strange, ugly portable machine.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
and then you have Nintendo appealing to everyone
Wii anyone? Didn't think so. If they appeal to everyone, why is their marketshare so low?
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
Sony and M$ are such niche players it's rediculious.
What niche? Nintendo has practically zero market share. Sony has about 65%, Microsoft about 30% and Nintendo 5%. That's the only thing they have in common with Apple - they are niche players.
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
look at Microsoft...practically paying people to take their console home....and Sony, just barely into the black despite investing so much into beefier specs.
They spend more money and are willing to make a loss to make the gaming experience better for the user. Nintendo are on such a knife edge, they can't afford to take such risks in case it kills them. Anyway, they make more money on the games to recoup losses over time.
The original DS is ugly, I admit, but all the other gameboys are very nice to me (the mini, DS-lite and advance).
I own a PSP, and never use it - there just are not enough good games. I think that a lot of people bought it expecting more - maybe when Devil May Cry comes out for it I will pick it back up. The PSP graphics are definitely better, though.
Nintendo has 15% market share in consoles, and 64.5% marketshare (advance + ds) in portibles.
Handheld unit sales and market share numbers for 2005
Dean Takahashi, 06:27 PM in Dean Takahashi, Gaming
Nintendo GameBoy Advance 41 percent 4.26 million
Sony PlayStation Portable 35 percent 3.63 million
Nintendo DS 23.5 percent 2.43 million
Source: Mercury News Research
Console unit sales and market share numbers for 2005
Dean Takahashi, 06:32 PM in Dean Takahashi, Gaming
Where did you get the market share numbers??? Last time I checked, Microsoft and Nintendo were very near the same market share. Nintendo is also making a lot of profits...I don't see how that is a bad thing for a company...
It is obvious that there is nothing that can be said that will get you to appreciate Nintendo's innovative ideas. I am nottrying to get you to go out and buy a DS; however, as a gamer you should have nothing against Nintendo. Also, you should support what they are doing. I too love my PS2, and will probably buy a PS3 (once the price drops...noway am I paying $500 for a gaming console). The thing is, right now the gaming industry has become so dull. FPS after FPS. Please, I want something new. That is what Nintendo is trying to do.
Do I believe Nintendo will be able to pull it off? I don't know, but that is not the point. I support them for trying, unlike Microsoft and unlike Sony. Improving graphics is not innovating at all. Why would I want to buy a XBOX360 right now. What advantage does it have? Better graphics...that is it. No innovation. Nothing new. That is why I support Nintendo, and every gamer should support Nintendo. Where would the gaming industry be without Nintendo?
They don't worry about what their competitors are doing, they worry more about improving the industry by innovation. That is very similiar to Apple. That was the point that was made. And if you can not even agree on that, then I feel that any further argument is futile as it would be obvious that your opinion on the subject is far to strong for you to see things objectivly.
The PSP is a great piece of hardware. Anybody who tries to tell you that it's a "backwards console" or "lacks good games" is uninformed or a Nintendo fanboy. (which are the same thing)
The DS is also a very nice system, however, what it lacks is the slickness, in both graphics and physicality, that the PSP has. For every hack the DS has, the PSP has a full-featured solution. Video, internet, all that stuff is available on the PSP without any hassle.
The DS has, however, pioneered a very interesting niche of game control with the touchpad concept. The thing that's too bad is that it's a really broken experience, with an awkward way of playing games and hardware that looks almost comically overstated.
If I buy another console, it's probably going to be a PSP revision. But what I really want to see more than anything is a handheld that's innovative without being unpolished, and polished without being unoriginal.
The PSP is a great piece of hardware. Anybody who tries to tell you that it's a "backwards console" or "lacks good games" is uninformed or a Nintendo fanboy. (which are the same thing)
Damn--I thought it only got nasty when the occassional troll wanders in... But start debating Nintendo and Sony's game consoles, and the gloves really come off!
The PSP is a great piece of hardware. Anybody who tries to tell you that it's a "backwards console" or "lacks good games" is uninformed or a Nintendo fanboy. (which are the same thing)
I own a PSP, do not own any nintendo gear, and still think that the PSP lacks good games.
Between the GameCube, GabeBoy and Nintendo DS...Nintendo has sold more hardware and software than Sony or Microsoft.
And yeah...marketshare doesnt matter to me anyway. if it does to you, ask urself why ur on a Macintosh forum. u might be better offf with Windows if it matters so much to you.
Innovations:
-Shoulder buttons
-analog control
-direction pad
-rumble
-wireless controllers
-3D controls (Mario 64 was the first)
-touch controls
And yes, the NDS Lite is georgous...as opposed to the bulky, button clad, darth-vader design of the PSP. (Thats why the NDS has outsold the PSP in every territory)...and strangely selling to many more demographics than the PSP is.
Games....there are far, far fewer games o nthe PSP....and most of the games that are available are on the PS2 anyway. UMD ? last i checked that format has gone bellyup with every major american studio abandoning it like a disease. Even the iPod has better movie playback options allowing you to hook it upto a television to watch your videos (not to mention the iPod can store hours of it, as opposed to one or two movies).
So yeah...NDS...appealing to women and girls with Nintendogs, animal crossing, causal gamers with things like wario ware, average gamer with Marios, Zelda and Metroid....and seniors with Brain training.
PSP...appealing to middle-aged-geeky-males 18-40ish....who also own the same shyte on the PS2.
And yes, the DS looks a lot better...smaller, lighter, brighter and better battery life than the PSP. if people wanted to play console games on the go they'd get a PSP...but they dont...so they get a NDS. apaprt from your demographic that is.
Oh and strangely enough.... Time magazine, as opposed to your average-super-duper-gamer-review magazine...journal...review...has called Nintendo the Apple of the gaming world (in the latest issue of Time).
Nintendo's a trailblazer in hardware and software.....and everyone else is taking notice as well.
Wii.... caught everyones attention...the point of marketing anything. Nintendo isnt catering it's offering to gaming nerds, cause they know they will buy one anyway, theyre after the larger, untapped non-gamer market. and if that pisses u off and forces you to change to something backwards.... it's your loss and Nintendo laughs all the way to the bank, while being different and innovative.
The strange thing is... almost every crtic and analyst predicted Nintendo's doom when the NDS was announced (just like when the iMac was announced by the way), cause the PSP has *specs* going for it. they reality set in, and the PSP has joined the group of has beens of portable gaming, and the NDS continues to be a chart topper.
With the Wii...it's the opposite.... everyone...and i do mean EVERYONE who has actually used it falls in love with it...not JUST GAMERS.
With the Playstantion and Xbox... they only appeal to such a narrow niche and demographic, which is why....from an economic perspective....it's not the best. it might have a billion-big-a-herts processors, etc...but it's the same old way of playing games.... and i think, people want something more as well (remember now the Wii hasnt abandoned the old way(the way the PS3 and XBox360 play games) of playing games).
So yeah...... this year's E3 will be Nintendo's by far. not because of the number of cores, or the clock rates of their processors...but because of the games. (As opposed to full motion videos purposely conjured up to mislead audiences in an elaborate show of theoretical capabilities of a system that didnt even exist.... the PS3)
Nintendo is offering the most unique systems and games out there and their strategy is certainly a different one. Like Apple, they distance themselves from competitors via the experience more then the specs. Have you seen how hyped up critics and columnists on blogs and sites dedicated to gaming have been? There's good reason.
The DS has been quite a success for Nintendo and the lite hopes to improve on it. It's smaller, more durable, has a better screen (more res than a PSP for the spec minded) and offers a library that focuses on varying types of handheld gameplay. Their titles explore more options and are generally more appropriate for the pick up and put down play that is conducive to the environment.
A lot of their titles are invested in much of the same franchise and characterizations, but they are far from a Madden 2006 , updated war-themed FPS, etc. Notice I haven't said those are bad, just framing the convo without vehemently qualifying my individual tastes. My argument is based on market strategy and offerings, not preferences.
The rumored PSP2 might be a step for Sony to learn that market better and try to focus the device more. Having too many options has made the PSP less of a gaming console and more of handheld that you can play games on. I am interested in the PSP since you can hack the hell out of it, but it's still a deviation of the conversation. There are some titles on it that are good and innovative, but not as consistently as Nintendo's games have been.
I like Nintendo's new home system strategy as well but for more reasons than the new interface and the price/performance. Their online strategy seems to be an excellent one... release their library of console games online as well as titles from Sega and the PC engine (Turbografix). Offering gameplay from it's early roots and on will get people playing games beyond current gen. It will also get small developers to get involved and give more options than expensive and time hungry "sure wins" from the bigger publishers. This should fuel further innovation.
I do have to mention that the other next gen offerings from MS and Sony are/will/may do this to, but I suspect at a lesser extent. Geometry Wars (for 360) was an excellent example of a good and successful game while bucking the trend. The Xbox live service is quite good and proven and developments like this are encouraging.
If anything I want the competition because the consumer wins... I just think that Nintendo placed their bets in really good areas.
All I know is that I'll eventually own a Nintendo Wii for playing all classics and new inovative type games with other people(it seems like a social machine) and a ps3 for tekken and gta games as well as kicking my friend's asses.
If Nintendo really is smart with the price EVERYONE will own one and 1 of the 2 next gen machines.
And who know maybe the big N will be able to make it without taking a loss on every machine.
All I know is that I'll eventually own a Nintendo Wii for playing all classics and new inovative type games with other people(it seems like a social machine)
I totally agree with you (seems to happen a lot )
Quote:
Originally posted by ecking
If Nintendo really is smart with the price EVERYONE will own one and 1 of the 2 next gen machines.
And who know maybe the big N will be able to make it without taking a loss on every machine.
From some of the things I've read on the web the Nintendo Wii will cost around $200, if thats true Nintendo will sell a lot of systems.
I bought the GameCube about a month and half ago and I love it, it has so many 'FUN' games and is my 'new' favorite system of all time
And since the day I bought it I thought that Apple and Nintendo would make a great team, not only would it make a lot of sense but would help both a lot.
Besides XBox has Windows, PlayStation is going to have Linux why shouldn't Nintendo have OSX?
I've been meaning to post a thread of a Nintendo and Apple union maybe I should finally do it?
And added to all that new innovative stuff... ull get to enjoy games from every past Nintendo home console, and it'll still be cheaper than the competition. And it's not like the graphics wont be a lot better either, theyre improving every aspect of the gaming experience, unlike the other 2.
I think that the gamecube must have not sold very well in the last half of the year.
The Gamecube really didn't sell well out of the gates in 2001. The XBox has outsold the Gamecube since the introduction of both units.
As for the Wii, if old game downloads are cheap, that'll be a huge selling point for the system. It will also be the only selling point for me. I'm not looking for a gimmick gamepad design or dumbed down features like 480p support.
I've been meaning to post a thread of a Nintendo and Apple union maybe I should finally do it?
I guess great minds really do think alike!
A nintendo apple union would be too awesome, people connecting white Wiis to their imacs, or OSX lite with front row on Wiis in the living room, sharing stuff with macs in the house with bonjour.
Making the Wii a wireless media hub(cuz the mac does the downloading of movies, music etc and air ports it to the Wii) that plays all the classics as well as fun social games...all for 200 dollars and a nice slim living room pofile?
Comments
Originally posted by e1618978
Good games are games that sell well, by definition. And both those games are supposed to be a lot of fun to play, unless you are an angst filled teenage boy - in which case stay with your DOA4 or Halo or whatever.
Ok, they might be fun to play if you are an angst filled teenage girl. Sadly, I am neither a teenage girl nor teenage boy but in the group of 20-something occasional gamer - a group that children's games just don't satisfy.
Now, about the design of the DS. I really wish people would not use their own opinions as back up for their arguments. As of right now, The DS has massivly outsold the PSP. Why? Because Nintendo dares to innovate. Sounds like Apple doesn't it. The PSP is basically the same exact thing as all of the other games that we have played for the past 20 years. Nothing new. Speaking of which, I believe I also read that all of Nintendo's games have been sequals or what not. What are the biggest games on PS2 or XBOX (by the way, I sure hope nobody who speaks of the DS as ugly can support the XBOX or the 360, both the ugliest things ever made)? Sequals...Final Fantasy, Halo (or every FPS), GTA...the list goes on.
So back to apple. To answer the thread, the reason Apple is at E3 is for marketing. This is a BIG event, so why not be there. However, before everyone jumps on the video game industry bandwagon...hardcore gamers only constitute a small fraction of the demographics; however, Apple wants to appear as a cool company, and that is why they will appear at E3.
Originally posted by pugnax
Even though this is an APPLE forum, I feel it is necessary to address all of this slaming on Nintendo.
The subject is still relevant because someone suggested the reason for Apple being at E3 was a link up with Nintedo.
Originally posted by pugnax
What is the top selling video game of all time? Mario Bros. 1 (Mario 3 is the top selling video game not bundled with a system and Mario is the top selling game series of all time). That's right, a Nintendo game.
That's what I said. The only thing keeping Nintendo alive is that legacy. Those Nintendo games came out over 16 years ago.
Originally posted by pugnax
Most of the hottest game right now are made by Nintendo.
I doubt that:
2005 best selling games-
US Console Top Ten 2005 (NPD)
1. Madden NFL 06 (PS2) - 2,900,000
2. Pokemon Emerald (GBA) - 1,700,000
3. Gran Turismo 4 (PS2) - 1,500,000
4. Madden NFL 06 (Xbox) - 1,200,000
5. NCAA Football 06 (PS2) - 1,100,000
6. Star Wars: Battlefront II (PS2) - 1,000,000
7. MVP Baseball 2005 (PS2) - 970,000
8. Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (PS2) - 930,000
9. NBA Live 06 (PS2) - 820,000
10. LEGO Star Wars (PS2) - 800,000
and surprise surprise it's a Pokemon game from Nintendo. IGN has a list of most popular current games and there are about 5-10 Nintendo in the top 100. Guess what they are. You guessed it: Zelda, Mario, Metroid Prime, Harvest Moon in various versions.
Now I'm not saying sequels don't have their place but when you are pushing sequels to games from nearly two decades ago then you lack innovation.
Originally posted by pugnax
Now, about the design of the DS. I really wish people would not use their own opinions as back up for their arguments.
What would you rather they use? The idea that since Nintendo are doing something different they must be better? Different is only better when it works better.
Originally posted by pugnax
As of right now, The DS has massivly outsold the PSP. Why? Because Nintendo dares to innovate.
Or maybe Japanese people prefer stupid games and there are far more of them. The UK figures are different:
More than 185,000 PSPs were sold in its first four days in UK shops, say official Chart-Track figures.
Rival handheld, the Nintendo DS, sold 87,000 in its launch week in March.
Statistics don't cover a cultural divide. Remember Apple is a US company.
Originally posted by pugnax
The PSP is basically the same exact thing as all of the other games that we have played for the past 20 years. Nothing new.
Well, when you reach a design that works, it's sometimes better to stick to it than change the design for the purposes of hype. Did Apple change the imac, powerbook, ibook, Mini designs for the Intels?
Originally posted by pugnax
I believe I also read that all of Nintendo's games have been sequals or what not. What are the biggest games on PS2 or XBOX (by the way. Sequals...Final Fantasy, Halo (or every FPS), GTA...the list goes on.
Yeah sequels in their 3rd or so incarnation, not 15th with the exception of Final Fantasy, which is a Nintendo game anyway.
Originally posted by pugnax
I sure hope nobody who speaks of the DS as ugly can support the XBOX or the 360, both the ugliest things ever made)?
The Xbox 360 isn't too bad. The Xbox and DS are damn ugly.
To be honest, at E3 I would rather see Apple hook up with Sony to offer PSP games from itunes. It would be a shock if they hooked up with M$ to sell Xbox games. Maybe one day itunes will become the new Amazon but with the edge of serving direct media content.
1. the DS is "new"...its unlike any portable gaming console out there. the PSP is a backwards console with beefier specs. The DS also happens to have a lot of new games that appeal to women, kids, seniors and your average gamer, as opposed to the PSP that ONLY appeals to middle aged geeky men.
2. The DS Lite is very reminicent of Apple design...it reminds me of an iBook. it's lighter, smaller, brighter and has better battery life than the PSP.
3. It has "new" games....sure its got sequels and ports...but it has a lot of new IPs as well. as opposed to ONLY having PS2 ports on the PSP....oh and also, every other game on the DS is not just another racing game like on the PSP.
4. The DS is cheaper, both for consumers and developers.
5. It has a free online Nitwork, courtecy of Nintendo. The PSP does NOT have an online network.
You can complain about "sequels" all you want. Every generation of Mario, Zelda, Metroid and Donkey Kong differ vastly from previous generations....the characters might look the same, but every game has introduced a new control mechanic or interface that everyone else has copied and repackaged eventually. Unlike the sequels on the other consoles, which are essentially different "skins" on the same old game again and again with no innovative titles anywhere in sight...that is, until Nintendo invents it, and they copy it.
Whether it's shoulder buttons, analog control, rumble or wireless.....every other manufacturer has copied those UI elements into their following generation consoles.
You got industry heavyweights like Microsoft and Sony *trying* to play the game now....so what have they improved about gaming ? apart from HD, whats different about the XB360 over the XBox, and the PS3 over the PS2 ? beefier specs ? great....it's like having a G5 and running DOS on it. they arent doing anything with it. theyre so great, and yet they cannot innovate or take risks.....and then you have Nintendo i nthe other corner..... taking chances, making strides and appealing to everyone, wich isnt easy. Sony and M$ are such niche players it's rediculious. And it shows...look at the ROI that Nintendo enjoys, then look at Microsoft...practically paying people to take their console home....and Sony, just barely into the black despite investing so much into beefier specs.
Nintendo is the Apple of the gaming world. it's not about marketshare, or profit, it's about innovating and doing things differently and generating fun for everyone as opposed to the 3G formula(grit, guns and girls) which appeals only to middle-aged-geeky-men. As opposed to riding the coat tails of other company's successes and constantly copying.
Cheers
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
1. the DS is "new"...its unlike any portable gaming console out there.
Yup, it's ugly. No wait, so is the gameboy advance.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
The DS also happens to have a lot of new games that appeal to women, kids, seniors and your average gamer, as opposed to the PSP that ONLY appeals to middle aged geeky men.
LMAO, yeah the only people buying PSPs are middle-aged men. All the 40+ year old men queuing up in the store. Keep dreamin'.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
2. The DS Lite is very reminicent of Apple design...it reminds me of an iBook. it's lighter, smaller, brighter and has better battery life than the PSP.
But the ibook looks nice. As for the screen, don't even think you're going to convince me or anyone who knows what Sony's display technology is like that the DS is better on that front.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
3. It has "new" games....sure its got sequels and ports...but it has a lot of new IPs as well. as opposed to ONLY having PS2 ports on the PSP....oh and also, every other game on the DS is not just another racing game like on the PSP.
If the DS was powerful enough, it would have gamecube ports but it's not. It's only powerful enough to handle N64 games. Also, from what I can gather, the PSP has a far better game selection than the DS. People keep saying they only have stereotypical games but from the games listings that's clearly not true. If anything it's true about Nintendo. Yes, you do have more games in the same genre but that's called choice, which the DS does not provide.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
4. The DS is cheaper, both for consumers and developers.
Not by much. Games are typically £10 cheaper and the machine is about £50 cheaper. But you can play movies on a PSP, it has a larger and far nicer display and the gaming is far better.
On a PSP, I can blaze through the streets at 200mph and cause millions of dollars worth of damage (and no the DS version of Burnout isn't the same), on a DS I can treat patients' wounds by scrubbing them with the touch display, yay.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
5. It has a free online Nitwork, courtecy of Nintendo. The PSP does NOT have an online network.
Advantage DS.
DS 1 - PSP 457.
But who needs a network? I have real friends. I only play games when I am bored and alone.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
Unlike the sequels on the other consoles, which are essentially different "skins" on the same old game again and again with no innovative titles anywhere in sight...that is, until Nintendo invents it, and they copy it.
Name the innovative titles and their innovation. If you can come up with 5, I'll leave Nintendo alone.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
Whether it's shoulder buttons, analog control, rumble or wireless.....every other manufacturer has copied those UI elements into their following generation consoles.
True but we are still talking about two-decade legacy here.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
You got industry heavyweights like Microsoft and Sony *trying* to play the game now....so what have they improved about gaming ?
What have Nintendo improved? The PS2 had the dance mat and the eyetoy. Different but they suck IMO just like Nintendo's bongo drums.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
it's like having a G5 and running DOS on it.
Where do your analogies come from? PSP is like running a PS2 in a stylish, powerful portable machine. The DS is like running an N64 on a strange, ugly portable machine.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
and then you have Nintendo appealing to everyone
Wii anyone? Didn't think so. If they appeal to everyone, why is their marketshare so low?
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
Sony and M$ are such niche players it's rediculious.
What niche? Nintendo has practically zero market share. Sony has about 65%, Microsoft about 30% and Nintendo 5%. That's the only thing they have in common with Apple - they are niche players.
Originally posted by Hawkeye_a
look at Microsoft...practically paying people to take their console home....and Sony, just barely into the black despite investing so much into beefier specs.
They spend more money and are willing to make a loss to make the gaming experience better for the user. Nintendo are on such a knife edge, they can't afford to take such risks in case it kills them. Anyway, they make more money on the games to recoup losses over time.
I own a PSP, and never use it - there just are not enough good games. I think that a lot of people bought it expecting more - maybe when Devil May Cry comes out for it I will pick it back up. The PSP graphics are definitely better, though.
Nintendo has 15% market share in consoles, and 64.5% marketshare (advance + ds) in portibles.
Handheld unit sales and market share numbers for 2005
Dean Takahashi, 06:27 PM in Dean Takahashi, Gaming
Nintendo GameBoy Advance 41 percent 4.26 million
Sony PlayStation Portable 35 percent 3.63 million
Nintendo DS 23.5 percent 2.43 million
Source: Mercury News Research
Console unit sales and market share numbers for 2005
Dean Takahashi, 06:32 PM in Dean Takahashi, Gaming
Sony PlayStation 2 5.51 million 55 percent
Microsoft Xbox 2.40 million 24 percent
Nintendo GameCube 1.56 million 15 percent
Microsoft Xbox 360 607,343 6 percent
Source: Mercury News Research
It is obvious that there is nothing that can be said that will get you to appreciate Nintendo's innovative ideas. I am nottrying to get you to go out and buy a DS; however, as a gamer you should have nothing against Nintendo. Also, you should support what they are doing. I too love my PS2, and will probably buy a PS3 (once the price drops...noway am I paying $500 for a gaming console). The thing is, right now the gaming industry has become so dull. FPS after FPS. Please, I want something new. That is what Nintendo is trying to do.
Do I believe Nintendo will be able to pull it off? I don't know, but that is not the point. I support them for trying, unlike Microsoft and unlike Sony. Improving graphics is not innovating at all. Why would I want to buy a XBOX360 right now. What advantage does it have? Better graphics...that is it. No innovation. Nothing new. That is why I support Nintendo, and every gamer should support Nintendo. Where would the gaming industry be without Nintendo?
They don't worry about what their competitors are doing, they worry more about improving the industry by innovation. That is very similiar to Apple. That was the point that was made. And if you can not even agree on that, then I feel that any further argument is futile as it would be obvious that your opinion on the subject is far to strong for you to see things objectivly.
Originally posted by pugnax
Where did you get the market share numbers??? Last time I checked, Microsoft and Nintendo were very near the same market share.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/200...e_unit_sa.html
I think that the gamecube must have not sold very well in the last half of the year.
Your numbers seem a little more accurate.
The DS is also a very nice system, however, what it lacks is the slickness, in both graphics and physicality, that the PSP has. For every hack the DS has, the PSP has a full-featured solution. Video, internet, all that stuff is available on the PSP without any hassle.
The DS has, however, pioneered a very interesting niche of game control with the touchpad concept. The thing that's too bad is that it's a really broken experience, with an awkward way of playing games and hardware that looks almost comically overstated.
If I buy another console, it's probably going to be a PSP revision. But what I really want to see more than anything is a handheld that's innovative without being unpolished, and polished without being unoriginal.
Originally posted by Placebo
The PSP is a great piece of hardware. Anybody who tries to tell you that it's a "backwards console" or "lacks good games" is uninformed or a Nintendo fanboy. (which are the same thing)
Damn--I thought it only got nasty when the occassional troll wanders in... But start debating Nintendo and Sony's game consoles, and the gloves really come off!
Originally posted by Placebo
The PSP is a great piece of hardware. Anybody who tries to tell you that it's a "backwards console" or "lacks good games" is uninformed or a Nintendo fanboy. (which are the same thing)
I own a PSP, do not own any nintendo gear, and still think that the PSP lacks good games.
Between the GameCube, GabeBoy and Nintendo DS...Nintendo has sold more hardware and software than Sony or Microsoft.
And yeah...marketshare doesnt matter to me anyway. if it does to you, ask urself why ur on a Macintosh forum. u might be better offf with Windows if it matters so much to you.
Innovations:
-Shoulder buttons
-analog control
-direction pad
-rumble
-wireless controllers
-3D controls (Mario 64 was the first)
-touch controls
And yes, the NDS Lite is georgous...as opposed to the bulky, button clad, darth-vader design of the PSP. (Thats why the NDS has outsold the PSP in every territory)...and strangely selling to many more demographics than the PSP is.
Games....there are far, far fewer games o nthe PSP....and most of the games that are available are on the PS2 anyway. UMD ? last i checked that format has gone bellyup with every major american studio abandoning it like a disease. Even the iPod has better movie playback options allowing you to hook it upto a television to watch your videos (not to mention the iPod can store hours of it, as opposed to one or two movies).
So yeah...NDS...appealing to women and girls with Nintendogs, animal crossing, causal gamers with things like wario ware, average gamer with Marios, Zelda and Metroid....and seniors with Brain training.
PSP...appealing to middle-aged-geeky-males 18-40ish....who also own the same shyte on the PS2.
And yes, the DS looks a lot better...smaller, lighter, brighter and better battery life than the PSP. if people wanted to play console games on the go they'd get a PSP...but they dont...so they get a NDS. apaprt from your demographic that is.
Oh and strangely enough.... Time magazine, as opposed to your average-super-duper-gamer-review magazine...journal...review...has called Nintendo the Apple of the gaming world (in the latest issue of Time).
Nintendo's a trailblazer in hardware and software.....and everyone else is taking notice as well.
Wii.... caught everyones attention...the point of marketing anything. Nintendo isnt catering it's offering to gaming nerds, cause they know they will buy one anyway, theyre after the larger, untapped non-gamer market. and if that pisses u off and forces you to change to something backwards.... it's your loss and Nintendo laughs all the way to the bank, while being different and innovative.
The strange thing is... almost every crtic and analyst predicted Nintendo's doom when the NDS was announced (just like when the iMac was announced by the way), cause the PSP has *specs* going for it. they reality set in, and the PSP has joined the group of has beens of portable gaming, and the NDS continues to be a chart topper.
With the Wii...it's the opposite.... everyone...and i do mean EVERYONE who has actually used it falls in love with it...not JUST GAMERS.
With the Playstantion and Xbox... they only appeal to such a narrow niche and demographic, which is why....from an economic perspective....it's not the best. it might have a billion-big-a-herts processors, etc...but it's the same old way of playing games.... and i think, people want something more as well (remember now the Wii hasnt abandoned the old way(the way the PS3 and XBox360 play games) of playing games).
So yeah...... this year's E3 will be Nintendo's by far. not because of the number of cores, or the clock rates of their processors...but because of the games. (As opposed to full motion videos purposely conjured up to mislead audiences in an elaborate show of theoretical capabilities of a system that didnt even exist.... the PS3)
Cheers
The DS has been quite a success for Nintendo and the lite hopes to improve on it. It's smaller, more durable, has a better screen (more res than a PSP for the spec minded) and offers a library that focuses on varying types of handheld gameplay. Their titles explore more options and are generally more appropriate for the pick up and put down play that is conducive to the environment.
A lot of their titles are invested in much of the same franchise and characterizations, but they are far from a Madden 2006 , updated war-themed FPS, etc. Notice I haven't said those are bad, just framing the convo without vehemently qualifying my individual tastes. My argument is based on market strategy and offerings, not preferences.
The rumored PSP2 might be a step for Sony to learn that market better and try to focus the device more. Having too many options has made the PSP less of a gaming console and more of handheld that you can play games on. I am interested in the PSP since you can hack the hell out of it, but it's still a deviation of the conversation. There are some titles on it that are good and innovative, but not as consistently as Nintendo's games have been.
I like Nintendo's new home system strategy as well but for more reasons than the new interface and the price/performance. Their online strategy seems to be an excellent one... release their library of console games online as well as titles from Sega and the PC engine (Turbografix). Offering gameplay from it's early roots and on will get people playing games beyond current gen. It will also get small developers to get involved and give more options than expensive and time hungry "sure wins" from the bigger publishers. This should fuel further innovation.
I do have to mention that the other next gen offerings from MS and Sony are/will/may do this to, but I suspect at a lesser extent. Geometry Wars (for 360) was an excellent example of a good and successful game while bucking the trend. The Xbox live service is quite good and proven and developments like this are encouraging.
If anything I want the competition because the consumer wins... I just think that Nintendo placed their bets in really good areas.
If Nintendo really is smart with the price EVERYONE will own one and 1 of the 2 next gen machines.
And who know maybe the big N will be able to make it without taking a loss on every machine.
Originally posted by ecking
All I know is that I'll eventually own a Nintendo Wii for playing all classics and new inovative type games with other people(it seems like a social machine)
I totally agree with you (seems to happen a lot
Originally posted by ecking
If Nintendo really is smart with the price EVERYONE will own one and 1 of the 2 next gen machines.
And who know maybe the big N will be able to make it without taking a loss on every machine.
From some of the things I've read on the web the Nintendo Wii will cost around $200, if thats true Nintendo will sell a lot of systems.
I bought the GameCube about a month and half ago and I love it, it has so many 'FUN' games and is my 'new' favorite system of all time
And since the day I bought it I thought that Apple and Nintendo would make a great team, not only would it make a lot of sense but would help both a lot.
Besides XBox has Windows, PlayStation is going to have Linux why shouldn't Nintendo have OSX?
I've been meaning to post a thread of a Nintendo and Apple union maybe I should finally do it?
Originally posted by e1618978
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/200...e_unit_sa.html
I think that the gamecube must have not sold very well in the last half of the year.
The Gamecube really didn't sell well out of the gates in 2001. The XBox has outsold the Gamecube since the introduction of both units.
As for the Wii, if old game downloads are cheap, that'll be a huge selling point for the system. It will also be the only selling point for me. I'm not looking for a gimmick gamepad design or dumbed down features like 480p support.
Originally posted by Eugene
The Gamecube really didn't sell well out of the gates in 2001. The XBox has outsold the Gamecube since the introduction of both units.
That has to be false - as when I looked at market share a year ago both the Xbox and the Gamecube had 20% market share.
Originally posted by Darth_Apple
I totally agree with you (seems to happen a lot
I've been meaning to post a thread of a Nintendo and Apple union maybe I should finally do it?
I guess great minds really do think alike!
A nintendo apple union would be too awesome, people connecting white Wiis to their imacs, or OSX lite with front row on Wiis in the living room, sharing stuff with macs in the house with bonjour.
Making the Wii a wireless media hub(cuz the mac does the downloading of movies, music etc and air ports it to the Wii) that plays all the classics as well as fun social games...all for 200 dollars and a nice slim living room pofile?
I think my mind just exploded.