12" Powerbook EOL?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
On the US Apple Store website, if you make any changes to the stock 12" Powerbook, the wait time jumps from 24 hours to 5 - 7 business days.



http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...0XxjCv/10.?p=0



Is this a sign of something happening soon?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 21
    dhagan4755dhagan4755 Posts: 2,152member
    Why didn't they just discontinue it when they intro'd the 17-inch?
  • Reply 2 of 21
    mr. dirkmr. dirk Posts: 187member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DHagan4755

    Why didn't they just discontinue it when they intro'd the 17-inch?



    Even if they don't replace the 12" PB with a MBP, Apple's not stupid enough to ignore the market that it serves... They're probably waiting for a semi-replacement product (like the 13.3" MacBook) to come out so that segment will be satisfied.
  • Reply 3 of 21
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member
    Discontinuing the 12" PowerBook would probably be dumb. It sells great. So why axe it? MacBooks are not a replacement for the 12" PowerBook.
  • Reply 4 of 21
    dr. jdr. j Posts: 39member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Aquatic

    Discontinuing the 12" PowerBook would probably be dumb. It sells great. So why axe it? MacBooks are not a replacement for the 12" PowerBook.



    They would "axe" it because a G4 based notebook is 2-3 times slower than any intel based machine. The MacBooks are presumably going to be between $1,000 and $1,500, so why would they keep a machine of worse specs, and a higher price, available through their main channel?
  • Reply 5 of 21
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Dr. J

    They would "axe" it because a G4 based notebook is 2-3 times slower than any intel based machine. The MacBooks are presumably going to be between $1,000 and $1,500, so why would they keep a machine of worse specs, and a higher price, available through their main channel?



    Why not drop an ICD into that pretty little laptop and sell the crap out of them?



    PS. I think that's where Aquatic was heading.
  • Reply 6 of 21
    mr. dirkmr. dirk Posts: 187member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Aquatic

    Discontinuing the 12" PowerBook would probably be dumb. It sells great. So why axe it? MacBooks are not a replacement for the 12" PowerBook.



    That really kills me. How do you know that "it sells great"? Obviously, it either a) didn't (even though it may have at the beginning of its life), or b) sells well enough, but could be better replaced by a machine of similar specs and price, with a slightly larger (13") screen.
  • Reply 7 of 21
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member
    I obviously meant that they should make a 12" MacBook Pro. And it sells well. If you want numbers find them yourself. I've seen a fuckin million of 'em. My fiancee has the same model I do. They're everywhere. People want higher specs than a MacBook (iBook) in a small (12" at least or smaller) package.
  • Reply 8 of 21
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. Dirk

    Even if they don't replace the 12" PB with a MBP, Apple's not stupid enough to ignore the market that it serves... They're probably waiting for a semi-replacement product (like the 13.3" MacBook) to come out so that segment will be satisfied.



    What makes you think those of us who have used 12" PowerBooks will be satisfied with (despite the new MacBook/MacBook Pro naming scheme) what will essentially be an Intel iBook rather than an Intel PowerBook?



    I might have to settle for a 13.3" MacBook, or settle for going back up in size with a 15" MacBook Pro, but I'd be making a tradeoff between portability and features which I don't want to have to make.
  • Reply 9 of 21
    mr. dirkmr. dirk Posts: 187member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by shetline

    What makes you think those of us who have used 12" PowerBooks will be satisfied with (despite the new MacBook/MacBook Pro naming scheme) what will essentially be an Intel iBook rather than an Intel PowerBook?



    I might have to settle for a 13.3" MacBook, or settle for going back up in size with a 15" MacBook Pro, but I'd be making a tradeoff between portability and features which I don't want to have to make.




    I guess that's what both sides struggle against--there's no data, really, to back up anyone's claim. Apple's the only one with the 12" PB sales numbers--all we can do is estimate, and I suppose I don't put much stock in people simply seeing a product "everywhere" as incontrovertible evidence.



    One of the things I do look forward to is hearing what 12" PowerBook users think of the MacBooks--it may be that all the complaining is unjustified. Of course, it may be that it's justified--my point is, however, that Apple's a business, and if they don't offer a 12" MBP, it's because they're not making enough profit to justify the additional fixed cost investment. I think I also give it to faith that Apple's engineering department is nimble enough to bring us a 12" MBP if the market does indeed demand it.



    Rereading my above paragraph, I think I come off as somewhat aloof from the mac world (pardon the pun)--after all, economic viability has never stopped us from wanting a mac tablet or even a plasma tv with a mac built-in.
  • Reply 10 of 21
    dr. jdr. j Posts: 39member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by shetline

    I might have to settle for a 13.3" MacBook, or settle for going back up in size with a 15" MacBook Pro, but I'd be making a tradeoff between portability and features which I don't want to have to make.



    I was thinking about it, and you might not have to settle. I would bet that Apple will offer an ultimate MacBook with upgraded specs like it has with the Powerbook, MacBook Pro, PowerMac, iMac, and Mac Mini. So although it's still an extra 3x2" larger in size than the 12" PB, it'll be 4x faster, with a 7200rpm drive, 1 gb ram, and for $1499-1699.
  • Reply 11 of 21
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Dr. J

    I was thinking about it, and you might not have to settle. I would bet that Apple will offer an ultimate MacBook with upgraded specs...



    How "ultimate" could "ultimate" get? The following is based on something else I posted before, and I still think it applies here...



    I certainly can't see Apple putting so many "Pro" features in the next "iBooks" (MacBook non-Pros) that they leave you little reason other than display size to choose one over the other. My only concern is that there won't be any overlap in screen sizes between Pro and non-Pro, so that I won't be able to choose feature set and screen size independently.



    Of course, much of what's "Pro" today will become standard-issue over time, but for the foreseeable future, I expect nearly all of the following features to be Pro-only, with maybe a small number of surprises:
    • Aluminum or other thin, light-weight, non-plastic enclosure.

    • Dual core. (Okay, given that this is available in the top Mini model, maybe we'd see this dula core in the top MacBook non-Pro, but even then it'll probably be a slower chip than anything in the Pro line.)

    • Lighted keyboard and ambient light sensor. (Yes, I know the 12" PowerBook doesn't have these and a few other Pro features as well -- like I said before, what I've been hoping for is a 12-13" MacBook Pro which is more properly a Pro model.)

    • Built-in iSight.

    • MagSafe power adapter.

    • Remote control (and corresponding IR port).

    • Separate graphics card instead of integrated graphics.

    • Monitor spanning.

    • ExpressCard slot. (Something which I'd not be surprised to continue to see go missing from a small MacBook Pro, simply due to enclosure size.)

    • Digital audio I/O. (Yes, even the Mini has this now, but I'd still expect digital audio to be held back from non-Pro laptops.)

    • DVI video output, especially dual-link DVI.

    • Option for whatever the most advanced optical drive is at any given time.

    Like I said, I might end up surprised on a few counts, but I'd bet good money that any Apple notebook coming out in the foreseeable future which isn't in the Pro line isn't going to have 75% or even 50% of the above Pro features.



    If I'm not getting better than 50% of the above, I'd be "settling". In fact, even with 50% or more of the above, if I'm stuck with a bulkier plastic enclosure rather than a light and trim aluminum enclosure, I'll feel like getting a MacBook non-Pro is "settling".
  • Reply 12 of 21
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    • Aluminum or other thin, light-weight, non-plastic enclosure.



      Eh. All macs will have to have some cache now that they will be directly compared to other x86 offerings.

    • Dual core.



      No reason not to do dual core given the next rev of the MPB will feature the Core 2 Duo.

    • Built-in iSight.

    • MagSafe power adapter.



      These two are almost givens for the market.

    • Separate graphics card instead of integrated graphics.



      More likely a lower end card than strict IG unless the new GMA is available faster than anyone thought. The student market includes gamers. Its a tough sell without it against a $999 dell.

    • Digital audio I/O. (Yes, even the Mini has this now, but I'd still expect digital audio to be held back from non-Pro laptops.)



      Depends if they are looking toward the college market. Its not exactly expensive to add.

    • DVI video output, especially dual-link DVI.



      Probably not dual link but DVI is a given. VGA is not.


    Vinea
  • Reply 13 of 21
    I think the macbooks gonna have pretty much the same ports as the 15 inch MBP (dual-link DVI, FW400, optical audio).



    Whats going to set the two model lines apart is the core duo in the Macbooks and Core 2 duo in the MacBookPro. Maybe some display quality, battery life, integrated graphics (except in the top end 12" powerbook replacement) and only an 80gb HDD standard.
  • Reply 14 of 21
    sorry im dumb
  • Reply 15 of 21
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by vinea

    Eh. All macs will have to have some cache now that they will be directly compared to other x86 offerings...



    You can't be serious about thinking a non-Pro Apple notebook is going to come in a non-plastic enclosure?



    As for the rest of it... dream on. You might be lucky on one or two counts max. The consumer models have to sell at lower price points than the Pro models. The cost savings have to come from somewhere -- even features that might not seem like they should be that expensive get dropped because something has to get cut.



    Plus Apple has to leave people a reason to move up to the Pro line. If they pack everything you imagine into the new "iBook", why buy a Pro model for any other reason that the larger screen size?



    The cheapest new "iBook" (I hate saying "MacBook" when talking about both Apple notebook lines because a MacBook Pro is still a kind of MacBook, and I end up using terms like "MacBook non-Pro" to make sure my meaning is clear) most certainly will be made out of plastic. If the top of the line non-Pro model comes in an aluminum enclosure, different from the rest of the consumer models, and has all of the features you suggest it would have -- guess what? It's not a plain MacBook anymore, it's a MacBook Pro.
  • Reply 16 of 21
    dr. jdr. j Posts: 39member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by shetline

    Of course, much of what's "Pro" today will become standard-issue over time, but for the foreseeable future, I expect nearly all of the following features to be Pro-only, with maybe a small number of surprises:



    • Aluminum or other thin, light-weight, non-plastic enclosure.

      Pro only.

    • Dual core. (Okay, given that this is available in the top Mini model, maybe we'd see this dula core in the top MacBook non-Pro, but even then it'll probably be a slower chip than anything in the Pro line.)

      Will appear in both.

    • Lighted keyboard and ambient light sensor. (Yes, I know the 12" PowerBook doesn't have these and a few other Pro features as well -- like I said before, what I've been hoping for is a 12-13" MacBook Pro which is more properly a Pro model.)

      Pro only.

    • Built-in iSight.

      Will appear in both.

    • MagSafe power adapter.

      Will appear in both.

    • Remote control (and corresponding IR port).

      Will appear in both.

    • Separate graphics card instead of integrated graphics.

      Pro Only.

    • Monitor spanning.

      Pro Only.

    • ExpressCard slot. (Something which I'd not be surprised to continue to see go missing from a small MacBook Pro, simply due to enclosure size.)

      Pro only

    • Digital audio I/O. (Yes, even the Mini has this now, but I'd still expect digital audio to be held back from non-Pro laptops.)

      Will appear in both.

    • DVI video output, especially dual-link DVI.

      Will appear in both. Probably mini-dvi on the MacBook like the iMac.

    • Option for whatever the most advanced optical drive is at any given time.

      Pro only MAYBE.

  • Reply 17 of 21
    henriokhenriok Posts: 537member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by shetline

    What makes you think those of us who have used 12" PowerBooks will be satisfied with (despite the new MacBook/MacBook Pro naming scheme) what will essentially be an Intel iBook rather than an Intel PowerBook?



    The PowerBook 12" is essentially an iBook G4 and it has always been that way. The only thing that differentiates them technically is the GPU and sound in really..
  • Reply 18 of 21
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Henriok

    The PowerBook 12" is essentially an iBook G4 and it has always been that way. The only thing that differentiates them technically is the GPU and sound in really..



    And an aluminum enclosure instead of plastic.

    And monitor spanning.

    And larger hard drive options.

    And better optical drive options.

    And DVI instead of VGA.

    And an analog audio input.

    And a security lock slot.

    And 0.3 lbs. lighter.

    And 0.17" thinner.

    And 0.3" narrower.

    And 0.46" less deep.



    Yes, the 12" PB was never a full-fledged member of the PowerBook line, but some of us do care about the things that made it better than an iBook, and you can trust that Apple will continue use a fair number of feature differences, big and small, to differentiate the consumer and pro lines of their laptops.
  • Reply 19 of 21
    henriokhenriok Posts: 537member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by shetline

    And an aluminum enclosure instead of plastic.

    And monitor spanning.

    And larger hard drive options.

    And better optical drive options.

    And DVI instead of VGA.

    And an analog audio input.

    And a security lock slot.

    And 0.3 lbs. lighter.

    And 0.17" thinner.

    And 0.3" narrower.

    And 0.46" less deep.





    If you exclude the matters related too GPU (DVI-out, monitor spanning) and sound, NONE of thse are technical matters, just cosmetical ore related to marketing issues. And.. Apple could have easily opted for DVI and monitor spaning in iBook if they wanted to without changing GPU, larger drives and so forth. So.. the only thing that differentiated PB 12" from iBook G4 is really the audio option. That would have required a bit different circuitry inside. Security slot? the iBook G4 has one of those y'know.



    If you find any significant differences between the iBook (technote) and the Powerbook 12" (technote) please let me know. And no.. i don't count the three speakers, the fact the trackpad is connected slightly differently and the SMS in the PowerBook as any significant differences.

    Compare these two models to a "real" PowerBook and you'll easily see the difference. It's a completely different machine. (Technote for PB 15").



    Even Apple doesn't really think of the PowerBook 12" as a real Pro machine and designates it as if it were a consumer machine, along side all the other iBooks.

    iBook G4 = PowerBook6,7

    PB 12" = PowerBook6,8

    PB 15" = PowerBook5,8

    PB 17" = PowerBook5,9

    even numbers = consumer

    odd numbers = pro



    Everything the PowerBook 12" had could have easily been iBook features, and I really doubt that the smaller metal enclosure justifies the added $300-400. It's pretty obvious that they deliberately crippled the iBook and put a premium price on the PowerBook 12" just to segment their product lines. It added NOTHING to us, the customers.



    I don't argue that the iBook is better than the PowerBook, but the difference is almost purely cosmetical. Inside.. almost nothing differs. I think Apple will do just fine merging the two iBook moders and the PowerBook 12" into one Mac Book line. They can still segment their product line-up by actually having different features in the lower and higher segments. Integrated or discreet GPU, sound in, webcam, hard drive sizes, optical drive features, ExpressCard slot, processor speed and type (Core Solo vs Duo and eventually Core vs Core 2) bus speed, number of USB and FireWire-ports, and screen resolution, are things that can make a natural differencs between a low end and high end Mac Book, and Mac Book Pro. And software bundles of course. Crippling features like lack of monitor spanning and DVI is just silly. If Apple must make an effort to take away features they get for free just so they can fake a price segmentation between pro and consumer models, there's something seriously wrong.
  • Reply 20 of 21
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Henriok

    If you find any significant differences between the iBook (technote) and the Powerbook 12" (technote) please let me know. And no.. i don't count the three speakers, the fact the trackpad is connected slightly differently and the SMS in the PowerBook as any significant differences.



    I'm quite well aware of how much a 12" iBook and a 12" PowerBook have in common. But the "cosmetic" and features differences matter to me, and the fact remains that Apple is likely to continue to artificially create differences between the consumer and Pro lines.



    If Apple refuses to sell a MacBook non-Pro with built-in iSight, or MagSafe power connector, or an aluminum enclosure, even as options, it matters to me not in the slightest that any or all of these features would theoretically be easy for Apple to add.
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