So let me get this straight; you "teach at the largest college in the U.S.", but you don't know anything about grammar? Or, for that matter, terminology? US education must either be an order of a magnitude worse than I thought, or you're making this up. Maybe both.
What part of that sentence do you consider poor grammar?
I admit that the capitalization is a typo which I failed to correct, but the rest of that sentence is correct. If you're referring to the "pc's", that is the correct plural.
It is also the possessive. When you use initials, most of the time, the plural is, for example: Mind your P's and Q's. It is you who doesn't know grammar.
As for terminology, I've only used a Mac for a short time.
Are you people going to attack anything I say? I thought Mac users were a gentlemen. I guess I'm wrong about that.
- Most (as in 99.9%) of Apples employees have NO IDEA what UNRELEASED products/features Apple has on the stove.
- Even those employees that may have had an off chance of "HEARING SOMETHING" are so in fear of loosing their job rarely repeat it except perhaps in very tight and trustworthy circles.
- Everyone knows that if it's a cool and unreleased product, upgrade and/or product feature STEVE is going to be the man doing the reveal and only at a time and place HE thinks is appropriate.
Finally....
Given the fact that you are at the largest college in the US I'm finding it hard to believe you were the only person who is 'reporting' on this.
Your report just doesn't hold water my friend... Apple can't even fart in public without making the news and yet you'd have us believe some unnamed Apple reps doing the college circuit are outing new and unheard of technology improvements and improvements as big as that?!?!
Bzzzzzt!
Oh and getting back to the 'dirt in question':
Run PC on a Mac (I'm going to assume PC was meant to be Windows)
- No Emulation
- No Translation
- No Virtualization (Parallels)
- No Rosetta Stone-like application.
- No dual boot (BootCamp)
What's left Fairy Dust?
Dave
Back in the 1990's, MDC dumped Apple for Dell computers.
As far as I know, there is one Mac classroom and 1 or 2 Mac labs while there are possibly thousands of PC's or would you rather I said IBM clones? Apple uses the word PC's to mean other than Mac computers. What word would you have me use or would you rather just attack me whatever I say?
As for all the 164 plus thousand students telling you about the seminar, that would not happen because less than 50 techs, teachers, and students showed up for the seminar.
The seminars were held two more times and a few more people showed up. The few Mac techs that attended probably would not want to be attacked by you jackals; therefore they would not be members.
- the reps did say something like "wouldn't it be great if the next thing was for OS X to run Windows apps directly", and that got interpreted (as the rep intended) as "Leopard will have a built-in Windows API"
- the reps said flat-out that it would have it, but they were just blowing smoke because they read it on one of the Mac sites.
As others have pointed out,
- if they said it, either they are spilling info they aren't supposed to have, and Steve will fire them and then sue them, or they are just making it up.
- Prior to WWDC, Steve would never authorize the reps to have feature information on Leopard. Only the execs and the engineers know these things before WWDC.
But of course we all know these things, since we are hypervigilant Apple watchers for 20+ years.
I have spoken to seven people who attended one or another of the three seminars. A couple heard what I heard - that it was "in the works" or words to that affect. Since it was an Apple seminar - they figured that meant Apple was building it. Another tech attending the second seminar thought the rep was talking about VM ware. Another (I forgot to ask which seminar he attended) thought they said "wine". I did not hear those words. Our MDC Mac rep said he thought the visiting reps were talking about "wine"; however, he was in contact with them at various times and may have gotten that at any time before, during, or after the first seminar. Another tech said he heard a rumor of Apple buying "wine". I have sent an e-mail to one of the visiting reps asking for more details, but haven't heard from him so far.
Another tech said he heard a rumor of Apple buying "wine".
Wine is open source software that runs some Windows apps without Windows but it's not a reliable solution. I doubt Apple are going this route unless they know of a way to make it real good, real fast. It would certainly work for their advertising campaign because they could explicitly say you can run Windows apps without Windows. Still, Apple would be far better off making a deal with the parallels developers IMO and trying to get hardware acceleration working.
OK, now that a have a little more information to go on, here's what I've got to say.
I am not having problems anymore with believing what you heard. I am having problems believing that the Reps know what they are talking about. Apple is all about keeping future advances a secret. Apple did not, I repeat, Apple did not tell them to tell the world this. As another poster pointed out, if this was more than speculation by the Reps then they would likely be fired. So, I think this is mere speculation by the Apple Reps. I've been reading a lot of Apple forums lately and one thing I have learned is that a lot of Apple's employees talk like they know what is going on but they really don't. You can call 5 different customer service reps about a problem and hear 5 different conclusions.
I know this sounds ridiculous, but I have heard this same thing a few times now. I have no idea if it is really true or not. It does go hand in hand with what a few people that I know and trust beleive is going to really happen (evantually). That is, OS X is going to switch to the Vista Kernel, place on top of that Cocoa, QTkit, Webkit, possibly core*, and the Apple GUI, etc. That way, you have an OS that runs both OS X (cocoa apps, actually some carbon apps should work too) and vista apps natively.
Secondarily, I have also heard that Apple may instead try to lease .NET framework and gain at least those win apps through that, if OS W (what media is calling OS X on vista) doesn't pan out.
It sounds far-fetched to me, but the more I hear and the recent directions at apple (intel transition, NeXT people leaving, a few Apple Developer note hints, bootcamp, rumors of dissatisfaction with mach, etc.)
Wine is open source software that runs some Windows apps without Windows but it's not a reliable solution. I doubt Apple are going this route unless they know of a way to make it real good, real fast. It would certainly work for their advertising campaign because they could explicitly say you can run Windows apps without Windows. Still, Apple would be far better off making a deal with the parallels developers IMO and trying to get hardware acceleration working.
MDC (Miami Dade College) has a part time tech who is also a Mac rep. According to him, the visiting reps told him they had seen the program work.
He said he couldn't swear to it, but he thinks they were talking about "wine".
- the reps did say something like "wouldn't it be great if the next thing was for OS X to run Windows apps directly", and that got interpreted (as the rep intended) as "Leopard will have a built-in Windows API"
- the reps said flat-out that it would have it, but they were just blowing smoke because they read it on one of the Mac sites.
As others have pointed out,
- if they said it, either they are spilling info they aren't supposed to have, and Steve will fire them and then sue them, or they are just making it up.
- Prior to WWDC, Steve would never authorize the reps to have feature information on Leopard. Only the execs and the engineers know these things before WWDC.
But of course we all know these things, since we are hypervigilant Apple watchers for 20+ years.
This is my e-mail query to the Apple rep and his answer. I bleeped his name so that AppleInsider members couldn't attack him.
----------------
Here you go.
Still in its infancy....but this is the project website:
One of the things that John said was, in addition to BootCamp and Parallel, that a program was being built that would allow Windows apps to run natively on an Intel Mac. Can you tell me anything about it?
One of the things that John said was, in addition to BootCamp and Parallel, that a program was being built that would allow Windows apps to run natively on an Intel Mac. Can you tell me anything about it?
That's not an Apple project. That's a wrapper around WINE that's been in development for years. It allows you to run Win32 API programs.
Now, let's go back to your original claim:
Quote:
AND a new way:
But it isn't new. Darwine has been around since long before the Intel Mac announcement, in roughly 2004. And WINE, which it is based on, has been around since at least 2002.
You can read up on it here. Now, next time before you make such outrageous claims, please do some research. I know you were thinking you had the scoop on something exciting, or at least intriguing, but there is honestly not a single bit of a chance that a mere campus representative would give you such inside scoop, and more importantly, let you go away with it without having you sign an NDA. Common sense (and experience with Apple's policies) dictates that.
That said, the idea of Apple including something WINE-based or similar in 10.5 is ludicrous. Even if WINE were sufficiently compatible with the larg bulk of Win32 apps, which it is not (and likely never will be), that's all moot, because WinFX is set to replace Win32, and works completely differently.
Not to mention, of course, that Microsoft wouldn't be too amused by such a step of Apple's. Don't be surprised if it would effectively kill Office for Mac.
That's not an Apple project. That's a wrapper around WINE that's been in development for years. It allows you to run Win32 API programs.
Now, let's go back to your original claim:
But it isn't new. Darwine has been around since long before the Intel Mac announcement, in roughly 2004. And WINE, which it is based on, has been around since at least 2002.
You can read up on it here. Now, next time before you make such outrageous claims, please do some research. I know you were thinking you had the scoop on something exciting, or at least intriguing, but there is honestly not a single bit of a chance that a mere campus representative would give you such inside scoop, and more importantly, let you go away with it without having you sign an NDA. Common sense (and experience with Apple's policies) dictates that.
That said, the idea of Apple including something WINE-based or similar in 10.5 is ludicrous. Even if WINE were sufficiently compatible with the larg bulk of Win32 apps, which it is not (and likely never will be), that's all moot, because WinFX is set to replace Win32, and works completely differently.
Not to mention, of course, that Microsoft wouldn't be too amused by such a step of Apple's. Don't be surprised if it would effectively kill Office for Mac.
I never said that the reps indicated that this would be in 10.5 or anything else. You pulled that out of thin air.
I said they said it existed.
By the way, large is spelled l-a-r-g-e, not larg. There is no comma after the 'something exciting. Don't go head to head with me on grammar. You'll lose.
You called me a liar when I said I teach at the largest college in the U.S. I've noticed that you have not come up with a college that has more than 164,000 enrolled students. Have you decided to crawl back into the woodwork? How about an apology or is that beneath your dignity. You can only call people names - the mark of poor self esteem.
Sequitur, you are getting squeezed by the members here because of this quote:
Quote:
Apple is working on a way to run any other app, Mac or PC, natively. That stole the show.
You have no justification for saying that "Apple" is working on anything. That's why this crowd is not buying it. And that's why they are slamming you.
If you had just said you heard something about the concept, people would have told you about wine and so forth.
This is a tough crowd.
That said, no more personal attacks or grammar discussion is permitted and any such posts will be deleted. Sequitur, check this quote of yours
Quote:
A couple heard what I heard - that it was "in the works" or words to that affect.
But it isn't new. Darwine has been around since long before the Intel Mac announcement, in roughly 2004. And WINE, which it is based on, has been around since at least 2002.
You called me a liar when I said I teach at the largest college in the U.S. I've noticed that you have not come up with a college that has more than 164,000 enrolled students. Have you decided to crawl back into the woodwork? How about an apology or is that beneath your dignity. You can only call people names - the mark of poor self esteem.
Are you ok?
(Moderator Note: The following is output of "Pakin's Complaint Letter Generator" located at http://www.pakin.org/complaint . I am leaving it in as it might generate more confusion if I simply delete it. Kim Kap Sol did not write this.)
Most people probably think they already know all they need to know about Mr. Sequitur, but I have some new information to bring to light. The first thing I want to bring up is that I find Mr. Sequitur the most licentious person in the entire world. Whatever weight we accord to that fact, we may be confident that if Mr. Sequitur's thinking were cerebral rather than glandular, he wouldn't consider it such a good idea to marginalize me based on my gender, race, or religion. Despite his evident lack of grounding in what he's talking about, it would be wrong to imply that he is involved in some kind of conspiracy to manipulate public understanding of racism. It would be wrong because his prevarications are far beyond the conspiracy stage. Not only that, but he has stated that mediocrity and normalcy are ideal virtues. One clear inference from that statement -- an inference that is never really disavowed -- is that the Universe belongs to him by right. Now that's just cynical. Regardless of the theoretical beauty of the notion that I sometimes feel like Mr. Sequitur has forced us into a danse macabre with his smarmy conclusions leading us to the grave, there is the opposing fact that if Mr. Sequitur were as bright as he thinks he is, he'd know that he has compiled an impressive list of grievances against me. Not only are all of these grievances completely fictitious, but I should note that Mr. Sequitur's abysmal, unprofessional game of chess -- the self-pitying chess of absenteeism -- has continued for far too long. It's time to checkmate this hypocritical, batty troll and show him that he says that our elected officials should be available for purchase by special-interest groups. That's a stupid thing to say. It's like saying that an open party with unlimited access to alcohol can't possibly outgrow the host's ability to manage the crowd. Even by Mr. Sequitur's own account, he uses the very intellectual tools he criticizes, namely consequentialist arguments rather than arguments about truth or falsity.
Mr. Sequitur wants to impugn the patriotism of his opponents. Such intolerance is felt by all people, from every background. I guess that my take on this is that if he can overawe and befuddle a sufficient number of prominent individuals, then it will become virtually impossible for anyone to study the problem and recommend corrective action.
There are three points I need to make here. First, Mr. Sequitur is certifiably irascible. Second, when Mr. Sequitur is challenged, he either denies everything or claims that his words were taken out of context and that his enemies are plotting against him. And third, he would have us believe that we can stop mercantalism merely by permitting government officials entrée into private homes to search for sadistic mattoids. That, of course, is nonsense, total nonsense. But Mr. Sequitur is surrounded by sick delinquents who parrot the same nonsense, which is why as long as the beer keeps flowing and the paychecks keep coming, his cat's-paws don't really care that we have a dilemma of leviathan proportions on our hands: Should we take personal action and expose injustice and puncture prejudice, or is it sufficient to comment on his lamentations? The complete answer to that question is a long, sad story. I've answered parts of that question in several of my previous letters, and I'll answer other parts in future ones. For now, I'll just say that relative to just a few years ago, prolix imbeciles are nearly ten times as likely to believe that he's merely trying to make this world a better place in which to live. This is neither a coincidence nor simply a sign of the times. Rather, it reflects a sophisticated, psychological warfare program designed by Mr. Sequitur to dissolve the bonds that join individuals to their natural communities. I will never give up. I will never stop trying. And I will use every avenue possible to acquire the input of a representative cross-section of the community in a non-threatening, inclusive environment. One last thing: Mr. Sequitur represents the most recent incarnation of the unique 20th-century phenomenon known as "macabre neopaganism".
Sequitur, you are getting squeezed by the members here because of this quote:
You have no justification for saying that "Apple" is working on anything. That's why this crowd is not buying it. And that's why they are slamming you.
If you had just said you heard something about the concept, people would have told you about wine and so forth.
This is a tough crowd.
That said, no more personal attacks or grammar discussion is permitted and any such posts will be deleted. Sequitur, check this quote of yours
'nuff said about grammar.
Lundy,
Firstly, let me say that you have been a gentleman throughout this issue and I appreciate that.
Your members almost had me convinced that I misheard about Apple?s connection with this project.
As one of your members suggested, I have been doing more research. I contacted two more people who attended the first Apple seminar here. They also were of the opinion that the project was an Apple project. The rep?s enthusiasm (after discussing Bootcamp and Parallel) led them to that conclusion. That makes four others besides me that believed that. None of us heard ?wine?, ?Darwine?, or any other name. I admit that the five of us had no ?built in? preconception that Apple would not divulge something it was working on. After relating what you said about Apple?s playing its cards close to it?s vest, one said that Apple and Darwine must be ?in cahoots? as he put it.
Teachers and PC techs (that I talked to) attending the second and third seminars did hear ?wine? and ?VMware?(?). One of them said he thought there was a connection between Apple and whoever was working on the project. A ?Mac? teacher opined that if Apple didn?t own the company building Darwine, it was about to. I know that is pure speculation, but it shows how others felt.
The following is from Darwine?s site:
Use Wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator) to run Windows applications on Darwin and Mac OS X. Where to begin with news? This project has been quietly moving along for more than a year now and so a lot has happened. The biggest efforts have been by Pierre d'Herbemont and Sanjay Connare who have succesfully ported WINE to Mac OS X including a couple applications (what folks won't do to run Winmine!) and a binary package with installer.
Notice that the project has been moving along ?for more than a year?, not many years as some of your members suggested.
I apologize for not using the correct technical terms in my correspondence. I am not a ?techie? and have been a Mac user for only a short time.
I also apologize for getting hot under the collar and attacking my attackers. I understand that you do not want me to fight back when your members attack me, so I would appreciate not hearing from them again. Let?s also hope they won?t attack any more newcomers who don?t know the ?code?. Maybe they won't. I notice they didn't attack XDaniel when he said, "He heard this same thing."
Thank you,
Sequitur
As I wrote this, I received an e-mail from the Apple rep in response to my query:
Mr. B______
Some of us were under the impression that this was an Apple project. I am a little confused. What is Apple's connection with Darwin/Darwine?
\tHi ___
\tLet's take a step back.
\tThere are currently 3 projects going on to run Windows on an Intel Mac.
1 BootCamp which is beta free down load on the Apple site. It is a Duel Boot run Mac OSX or Run windows.
\t2 Parallel which is a 3rd party product to run Windows
\t3 is the the project below. We support this group but it is not Apple.
Grammatical errors in Mr. B?s e-mail are his, not mine.
Is there any significance in the fact that he calls Parallel a 3rd party product, but doesn?t use that appellation for Darwin? What is Apple?s ?support?? I guess we?ll just have to wait and see.
OK. let's try to get back on topic. I am now going to remove all the personal attacks (except the one from KKS that I annotated so that people know it's a joke).
Sequitur, I understand you trying to defend yourself, and if you had just said at the beginning that it was a rumor or something that you thought you heard, the response of this crowd might have been more civilized.
But you need to know that AppleInsider's purpose is to discuss rumors and future Apple actions, products, and features. As such, the members will jump on an unsubstantiated statement like Rush Limbaugh jumps on an Oxycontin 80 mg tablet. There are many many smoke-blowing posters who are trying to get attention, and by no means am I saying that was your intention (I know it wasn't), but these members here sniff out that kind of post immediately. And given the embarrassment they have experienced from "biting" in the past, they aren't always diplomatic in expressing skepticism.
Personal attacks are forbidden however, and thus I am removing them.
I didn't have much of an idea about its age. I knew it was fairly old, but thought it originated in the late 90s. I suppose it didn't become popular / useful until then.
According to my research, WINE did exist in 1993 (not 1992), but was then for Win16, and as such not very similar to what it is today.
My point stands, though. It's not a new effort or something previously unheard of, so please, sequitor, try laying off the sensationalism.
Notice that the project has been moving along “for more than a year”, not many years as some of your members suggested.
That's Darwine, not Wine. This is precisely what I previously said:
Quote:
But it isn't new. Darwine has been around since long before the Intel Mac announcement, in roughly 2004. And WINE, which it is based on, has been around since at least 2002.
Sorry about the confusion...for a second I thought I had killed the thread...yes, I generated that complaint using Pakin's as a joke.
No hard feelings to sequitur. Thanks to lundy for realizing it was a joke.
BTW, welcome to AI sequitur. Yes, we were hard on you...but it's for your own good. I (and others) like to train the new members to take the heat. Those that can't handle it, just fade away. You've held on so you've got what it takes.
Comments
Originally posted by Chucker
Howso?
So let me get this straight; you "teach at the largest college in the U.S.", but you don't know anything about grammar? Or, for that matter, terminology? US education must either be an order of a magnitude worse than I thought, or you're making this up. Maybe both.
What part of that sentence do you consider poor grammar?
I admit that the capitalization is a typo which I failed to correct, but the rest of that sentence is correct. If you're referring to the "pc's", that is the correct plural.
It is also the possessive. When you use initials, most of the time, the plural is, for example: Mind your P's and Q's. It is you who doesn't know grammar.
As for terminology, I've only used a Mac for a short time.
Are you people going to attack anything I say? I thought Mac users were a gentlemen. I guess I'm wrong about that.
Originally posted by DaveGee
Givens:
- Most (as in 99.9%) of Apples employees have NO IDEA what UNRELEASED products/features Apple has on the stove.
- Even those employees that may have had an off chance of "HEARING SOMETHING" are so in fear of loosing their job rarely repeat it except perhaps in very tight and trustworthy circles.
- Everyone knows that if it's a cool and unreleased product, upgrade and/or product feature STEVE is going to be the man doing the reveal and only at a time and place HE thinks is appropriate.
Finally....
Given the fact that you are at the largest college in the US I'm finding it hard to believe you were the only person who is 'reporting' on this.
Your report just doesn't hold water my friend... Apple can't even fart in public without making the news and yet you'd have us believe some unnamed Apple reps doing the college circuit are outing new and unheard of technology improvements and improvements as big as that?!?!
Bzzzzzt!
Oh and getting back to the 'dirt in question':
Run PC on a Mac (I'm going to assume PC was meant to be Windows)
- No Emulation
- No Translation
- No Virtualization (Parallels)
- No Rosetta Stone-like application.
- No dual boot (BootCamp)
What's left Fairy Dust?
Dave
Back in the 1990's, MDC dumped Apple for Dell computers.
As far as I know, there is one Mac classroom and 1 or 2 Mac labs while there are possibly thousands of PC's or would you rather I said IBM clones? Apple uses the word PC's to mean other than Mac computers. What word would you have me use or would you rather just attack me whatever I say?
As for all the 164 plus thousand students telling you about the seminar, that would not happen because less than 50 techs, teachers, and students showed up for the seminar.
The seminars were held two more times and a few more people showed up. The few Mac techs that attended probably would not want to be attacked by you jackals; therefore they would not be members.
Originally posted by lundy
This boils down to
- the reps did say something like "wouldn't it be great if the next thing was for OS X to run Windows apps directly", and that got interpreted (as the rep intended) as "Leopard will have a built-in Windows API"
- the reps said flat-out that it would have it, but they were just blowing smoke because they read it on one of the Mac sites.
As others have pointed out,
- if they said it, either they are spilling info they aren't supposed to have, and Steve will fire them and then sue them, or they are just making it up.
- Prior to WWDC, Steve would never authorize the reps to have feature information on Leopard. Only the execs and the engineers know these things before WWDC.
But of course we all know these things, since we are hypervigilant Apple watchers for 20+ years.
I have spoken to seven people who attended one or another of the three seminars. A couple heard what I heard - that it was "in the works" or words to that affect. Since it was an Apple seminar - they figured that meant Apple was building it. Another tech attending the second seminar thought the rep was talking about VM ware. Another (I forgot to ask which seminar he attended) thought they said "wine". I did not hear those words. Our MDC Mac rep said he thought the visiting reps were talking about "wine"; however, he was in contact with them at various times and may have gotten that at any time before, during, or after the first seminar. Another tech said he heard a rumor of Apple buying "wine". I have sent an e-mail to one of the visiting reps asking for more details, but haven't heard from him so far.
Originally posted by sequitur
Another tech said he heard a rumor of Apple buying "wine".
Wine is open source software that runs some Windows apps without Windows but it's not a reliable solution. I doubt Apple are going this route unless they know of a way to make it real good, real fast. It would certainly work for their advertising campaign because they could explicitly say you can run Windows apps without Windows. Still, Apple would be far better off making a deal with the parallels developers IMO and trying to get hardware acceleration working.
I am not having problems anymore with believing what you heard. I am having problems believing that the Reps know what they are talking about. Apple is all about keeping future advances a secret. Apple did not, I repeat, Apple did not tell them to tell the world this. As another poster pointed out, if this was more than speculation by the Reps then they would likely be fired. So, I think this is mere speculation by the Apple Reps. I've been reading a lot of Apple forums lately and one thing I have learned is that a lot of Apple's employees talk like they know what is going on but they really don't. You can call 5 different customer service reps about a problem and hear 5 different conclusions.
Secondarily, I have also heard that Apple may instead try to lease .NET framework and gain at least those win apps through that, if OS W (what media is calling OS X on vista) doesn't pan out.
It sounds far-fetched to me, but the more I hear and the recent directions at apple (intel transition, NeXT people leaving, a few Apple Developer note hints, bootcamp, rumors of dissatisfaction with mach, etc.)
Originally posted by sequitur
Are you jackals going to attack anything I say? I thought Mac users were a gentlemen. I guess I'm wrong about that.
When you spew bullshit and actually have the nerve to want anyone here to believe it, then yes, we tend not to be particularly gentleman-like.
Originally posted by Marvin
Wine is open source software that runs some Windows apps without Windows but it's not a reliable solution. I doubt Apple are going this route unless they know of a way to make it real good, real fast. It would certainly work for their advertising campaign because they could explicitly say you can run Windows apps without Windows. Still, Apple would be far better off making a deal with the parallels developers IMO and trying to get hardware acceleration working.
MDC (Miami Dade College) has a part time tech who is also a Mac rep. According to him, the visiting reps told him they had seen the program work.
He said he couldn't swear to it, but he thinks they were talking about "wine".
Originally posted by lundy
This boils down to
- the reps did say something like "wouldn't it be great if the next thing was for OS X to run Windows apps directly", and that got interpreted (as the rep intended) as "Leopard will have a built-in Windows API"
- the reps said flat-out that it would have it, but they were just blowing smoke because they read it on one of the Mac sites.
As others have pointed out,
- if they said it, either they are spilling info they aren't supposed to have, and Steve will fire them and then sue them, or they are just making it up.
- Prior to WWDC, Steve would never authorize the reps to have feature information on Leopard. Only the execs and the engineers know these things before WWDC.
But of course we all know these things, since we are hypervigilant Apple watchers for 20+ years.
This is my e-mail query to the Apple rep and his answer. I bleeped his name so that AppleInsider members couldn't attack him.
----------------
Here you go.
Still in its infancy....but this is the project website:
http://darwine.opendarwin.org/
Jesse B_______
Account Executive
Florida Higher Education
Apple Computer Inc.
Mr. B________,
One of the things that John said was, in addition to BootCamp and Parallel, that a program was being built that would allow Windows apps to run natively on an Intel Mac. Can you tell me anything about it?
Originally posted by sequitur
This is my e-mail query to the Apple rep and his answer. I bleeped his name so that AppleInsider a..holes couldn't attack him.
[..]
http://darwine.opendarwin.org/
One of the things that John said was, in addition to BootCamp and Parallel, that a program was being built that would allow Windows apps to run natively on an Intel Mac. Can you tell me anything about it?
That's not an Apple project. That's a wrapper around WINE that's been in development for years. It allows you to run Win32 API programs.
Now, let's go back to your original claim:
AND a new way:
But it isn't new. Darwine has been around since long before the Intel Mac announcement, in roughly 2004. And WINE, which it is based on, has been around since at least 2002.
You can read up on it here. Now, next time before you make such outrageous claims, please do some research. I know you were thinking you had the scoop on something exciting, or at least intriguing, but there is honestly not a single bit of a chance that a mere campus representative would give you such inside scoop, and more importantly, let you go away with it without having you sign an NDA. Common sense (and experience with Apple's policies) dictates that.
That said, the idea of Apple including something WINE-based or similar in 10.5 is ludicrous. Even if WINE were sufficiently compatible with the larg bulk of Win32 apps, which it is not (and likely never will be), that's all moot, because WinFX is set to replace Win32, and works completely differently.
Not to mention, of course, that Microsoft wouldn't be too amused by such a step of Apple's. Don't be surprised if it would effectively kill Office for Mac.
Originally posted by Chucker
That's not an Apple project. That's a wrapper around WINE that's been in development for years. It allows you to run Win32 API programs.
Now, let's go back to your original claim:
But it isn't new. Darwine has been around since long before the Intel Mac announcement, in roughly 2004. And WINE, which it is based on, has been around since at least 2002.
You can read up on it here. Now, next time before you make such outrageous claims, please do some research. I know you were thinking you had the scoop on something exciting, or at least intriguing, but there is honestly not a single bit of a chance that a mere campus representative would give you such inside scoop, and more importantly, let you go away with it without having you sign an NDA. Common sense (and experience with Apple's policies) dictates that.
That said, the idea of Apple including something WINE-based or similar in 10.5 is ludicrous. Even if WINE were sufficiently compatible with the larg bulk of Win32 apps, which it is not (and likely never will be), that's all moot, because WinFX is set to replace Win32, and works completely differently.
Not to mention, of course, that Microsoft wouldn't be too amused by such a step of Apple's. Don't be surprised if it would effectively kill Office for Mac.
I never said that the reps indicated that this would be in 10.5 or anything else. You pulled that out of thin air.
I said they said it existed.
By the way, large is spelled l-a-r-g-e, not larg. There is no comma after the 'something exciting. Don't go head to head with me on grammar. You'll lose.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
2 words: 9 posts.
You called me a liar when I said I teach at the largest college in the U.S. I've noticed that you have not come up with a college that has more than 164,000 enrolled students. Have you decided to crawl back into the woodwork? How about an apology or is that beneath your dignity. You can only call people names - the mark of poor self esteem.
Sequitur, you are getting squeezed by the members here because of this quote:
Apple is working on a way to run any other app, Mac or PC, natively. That stole the show.
You have no justification for saying that "Apple" is working on anything. That's why this crowd is not buying it. And that's why they are slamming you.
If you had just said you heard something about the concept, people would have told you about wine and so forth.
This is a tough crowd.
That said, no more personal attacks or grammar discussion is permitted and any such posts will be deleted. Sequitur, check this quote of yours
A couple heard what I heard - that it was "in the works" or words to that affect.
'nuff said about grammar.
Originally posted by Chucker
But it isn't new. Darwine has been around since long before the Intel Mac announcement, in roughly 2004. And WINE, which it is based on, has been around since at least 2002.
You mean 1992, right?
Originally posted by sequitur
You called me a liar when I said I teach at the largest college in the U.S. I've noticed that you have not come up with a college that has more than 164,000 enrolled students. Have you decided to crawl back into the woodwork? How about an apology or is that beneath your dignity. You can only call people names - the mark of poor self esteem.
Are you ok?
(Moderator Note: The following is output of "Pakin's Complaint Letter Generator" located at http://www.pakin.org/complaint . I am leaving it in as it might generate more confusion if I simply delete it. Kim Kap Sol did not write this.)
Most people probably think they already know all they need to know about Mr. Sequitur, but I have some new information to bring to light. The first thing I want to bring up is that I find Mr. Sequitur the most licentious person in the entire world. Whatever weight we accord to that fact, we may be confident that if Mr. Sequitur's thinking were cerebral rather than glandular, he wouldn't consider it such a good idea to marginalize me based on my gender, race, or religion. Despite his evident lack of grounding in what he's talking about, it would be wrong to imply that he is involved in some kind of conspiracy to manipulate public understanding of racism. It would be wrong because his prevarications are far beyond the conspiracy stage. Not only that, but he has stated that mediocrity and normalcy are ideal virtues. One clear inference from that statement -- an inference that is never really disavowed -- is that the Universe belongs to him by right. Now that's just cynical. Regardless of the theoretical beauty of the notion that I sometimes feel like Mr. Sequitur has forced us into a danse macabre with his smarmy conclusions leading us to the grave, there is the opposing fact that if Mr. Sequitur were as bright as he thinks he is, he'd know that he has compiled an impressive list of grievances against me. Not only are all of these grievances completely fictitious, but I should note that Mr. Sequitur's abysmal, unprofessional game of chess -- the self-pitying chess of absenteeism -- has continued for far too long. It's time to checkmate this hypocritical, batty troll and show him that he says that our elected officials should be available for purchase by special-interest groups. That's a stupid thing to say. It's like saying that an open party with unlimited access to alcohol can't possibly outgrow the host's ability to manage the crowd. Even by Mr. Sequitur's own account, he uses the very intellectual tools he criticizes, namely consequentialist arguments rather than arguments about truth or falsity.
Mr. Sequitur wants to impugn the patriotism of his opponents. Such intolerance is felt by all people, from every background. I guess that my take on this is that if he can overawe and befuddle a sufficient number of prominent individuals, then it will become virtually impossible for anyone to study the problem and recommend corrective action.
There are three points I need to make here. First, Mr. Sequitur is certifiably irascible. Second, when Mr. Sequitur is challenged, he either denies everything or claims that his words were taken out of context and that his enemies are plotting against him. And third, he would have us believe that we can stop mercantalism merely by permitting government officials entrée into private homes to search for sadistic mattoids. That, of course, is nonsense, total nonsense. But Mr. Sequitur is surrounded by sick delinquents who parrot the same nonsense, which is why as long as the beer keeps flowing and the paychecks keep coming, his cat's-paws don't really care that we have a dilemma of leviathan proportions on our hands: Should we take personal action and expose injustice and puncture prejudice, or is it sufficient to comment on his lamentations? The complete answer to that question is a long, sad story. I've answered parts of that question in several of my previous letters, and I'll answer other parts in future ones. For now, I'll just say that relative to just a few years ago, prolix imbeciles are nearly ten times as likely to believe that he's merely trying to make this world a better place in which to live. This is neither a coincidence nor simply a sign of the times. Rather, it reflects a sophisticated, psychological warfare program designed by Mr. Sequitur to dissolve the bonds that join individuals to their natural communities. I will never give up. I will never stop trying. And I will use every avenue possible to acquire the input of a representative cross-section of the community in a non-threatening, inclusive environment. One last thing: Mr. Sequitur represents the most recent incarnation of the unique 20th-century phenomenon known as "macabre neopaganism".
Originally posted by lundy
ALL RIGHT
Sequitur, you are getting squeezed by the members here because of this quote:
You have no justification for saying that "Apple" is working on anything. That's why this crowd is not buying it. And that's why they are slamming you.
If you had just said you heard something about the concept, people would have told you about wine and so forth.
This is a tough crowd.
That said, no more personal attacks or grammar discussion is permitted and any such posts will be deleted. Sequitur, check this quote of yours
'nuff said about grammar.
Lundy,
Firstly, let me say that you have been a gentleman throughout this issue and I appreciate that.
Your members almost had me convinced that I misheard about Apple?s connection with this project.
As one of your members suggested, I have been doing more research. I contacted two more people who attended the first Apple seminar here. They also were of the opinion that the project was an Apple project. The rep?s enthusiasm (after discussing Bootcamp and Parallel) led them to that conclusion. That makes four others besides me that believed that. None of us heard ?wine?, ?Darwine?, or any other name. I admit that the five of us had no ?built in? preconception that Apple would not divulge something it was working on. After relating what you said about Apple?s playing its cards close to it?s vest, one said that Apple and Darwine must be ?in cahoots? as he put it.
Teachers and PC techs (that I talked to) attending the second and third seminars did hear ?wine? and ?VMware?(?). One of them said he thought there was a connection between Apple and whoever was working on the project. A ?Mac? teacher opined that if Apple didn?t own the company building Darwine, it was about to. I know that is pure speculation, but it shows how others felt.
The following is from Darwine?s site:
Use Wine (Wine Is Not an Emulator) to run Windows applications on Darwin and Mac OS X. Where to begin with news? This project has been quietly moving along for more than a year now and so a lot has happened. The biggest efforts have been by Pierre d'Herbemont and Sanjay Connare who have succesfully ported WINE to Mac OS X including a couple applications (what folks won't do to run Winmine!) and a binary package with installer.
Notice that the project has been moving along ?for more than a year?, not many years as some of your members suggested.
I apologize for not using the correct technical terms in my correspondence. I am not a ?techie? and have been a Mac user for only a short time.
I also apologize for getting hot under the collar and attacking my attackers. I understand that you do not want me to fight back when your members attack me, so I would appreciate not hearing from them again. Let?s also hope they won?t attack any more newcomers who don?t know the ?code?. Maybe they won't. I notice they didn't attack XDaniel when he said, "He heard this same thing."
Thank you,
Sequitur
As I wrote this, I received an e-mail from the Apple rep in response to my query:
Mr. B______
Some of us were under the impression that this was an Apple project. I am a little confused. What is Apple's connection with Darwin/Darwine?
\tHi ___
\tLet's take a step back.
\tThere are currently 3 projects going on to run Windows on an Intel Mac.
1 BootCamp which is beta free down load on the Apple site. It is a Duel Boot run Mac OSX or Run windows.
\t2 Parallel which is a 3rd party product to run Windows
\t3 is the the project below. We support this group but it is not Apple.
\tHope this helps. Let me know if this helps.
\tJesse
\tJesse B_______
\tAccount Executive
\tFlorida Higher Education
\tApple Computer Inc.
--------------http://darwine.opendarwin.org/
----------------------
Grammatical errors in Mr. B?s e-mail are his, not mine.
Is there any significance in the fact that he calls Parallel a 3rd party product, but doesn?t use that appellation for Darwin? What is Apple?s ?support?? I guess we?ll just have to wait and see.
Sequitur, I understand you trying to defend yourself, and if you had just said at the beginning that it was a rumor or something that you thought you heard, the response of this crowd might have been more civilized.
But you need to know that AppleInsider's purpose is to discuss rumors and future Apple actions, products, and features. As such, the members will jump on an unsubstantiated statement like Rush Limbaugh jumps on an Oxycontin 80 mg tablet. There are many many smoke-blowing posters who are trying to get attention, and by no means am I saying that was your intention (I know it wasn't), but these members here sniff out that kind of post immediately. And given the embarrassment they have experienced from "biting" in the past, they aren't always diplomatic in expressing skepticism.
Personal attacks are forbidden however, and thus I am removing them.
Originally posted by Gene Clean
You mean 1992, right?
I didn't have much of an idea about its age. I knew it was fairly old, but thought it originated in the late 90s. I suppose it didn't become popular / useful until then.
According to my research, WINE did exist in 1993 (not 1992), but was then for Win16, and as such not very similar to what it is today.
My point stands, though. It's not a new effort or something previously unheard of, so please, sequitor, try laying off the sensationalism.
Originally posted by sequitur
Notice that the project has been moving along “for more than a year”, not many years as some of your members suggested.
That's Darwine, not Wine. This is precisely what I previously said:
But it isn't new. Darwine has been around since long before the Intel Mac announcement, in roughly 2004. And WINE, which it is based on, has been around since at least 2002.
No hard feelings to sequitur.
BTW, welcome to AI sequitur. Yes, we were hard on you...but it's for your own good. I (and others) like to train the new members to take the heat. Those that can't handle it, just fade away. You've held on so you've got what it takes.