Serious XP gripes...

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 46
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by skatman

    Windows is an OS. The function of an OS is to manage the backend of software/software and software/hardware interaction.



    Are you still stuck in 1972?
  • Reply 22 of 46
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    Are you still stuck in 1972?



    Nope; But windows and OSX are not JUST opperating systems, they are platforms or distributions; An OS is in fact the low level hardware controls and, to a basic extent, I/O...BUT the GUI, apps, advanced CLIs like BaSH, plugins (think Java or flash), email clients, messengers, browsers, tools like notepad or text edit are not part of an OS; they are part of a platform or distribution. the OS is the kernal and basic I/O interfaces...that is it.



    Linux or BSD (kernal) == OS



    Windows, MacOSX, Fedora core == platforms.
  • Reply 23 of 46
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tonton

    And we're just supposed to accept that, and if we ask "why the hell" (not having to deal with that at ALL in the Mac world), we're stupid?



    Yeah, that's what I want to do every 3-6 months. RIIIGHT. Especially when it literally takes hours to clean reinstall Windows, and you CAN'T dot it without third-party software to back up your data.



    I still think the whole thing is frustratingly difficult.




    Talk to MS, they are the ones that went against all common knoledge and CS practice and made a central database for EVERYTHING, and even made it super easy for apps and to a lesser extent web-baced apps to modify it!



    Talk to Bill about the registry, dont blame me!
  • Reply 24 of 46
    mynameheremynamehere Posts: 560member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tonton

    Not only do I have to use WinXP at work... not only do I have to administer XP at work on 7 computers... but I have to administer XP at work on 7 computers in Chinese.



    But my gripes are mainly on usage of the OS.



    1) Why the HELL does it take so long to copy files?



    2) Why the HELL does it take so long to empty the "recycle bin"?



    3) Why the HELL, when you're copying files, if one file has an "in use error" does it abort the entire fucking process?



    4) How long does it take to search for something on YOUR hard drive?



    There are so many more issues... just thought I'd start here.




    I'll add to this list: The networking sucks.

    When I try to connect from one to the shared folders on the other via a wired network, it's a crapshoot as to whether or not it connects (even if a ping command found it just fine), then when it can't find it explorer crashes. This onBOTH xp machines.
  • Reply 25 of 46
    mynameheremynamehere Posts: 560member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Chucker

    Bullshit. You can't use "use a different piece of software!" as a response to "why does this software (Windows, in this case) suck?".



    You can. It's called MacOS.
  • Reply 26 of 46
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by a_greer

    Nope; But windows and OSX are not JUST opperating systems, they are platforms or distributions;



    They're operating systems. End of story.



    Quote:

    An OS is in fact the low level hardware controls and, to a basic extent, I/O...BUT the GUI, apps, advanced CLIs like BaSH, plugins (think Java or flash), email clients, messengers, browsers, tools like notepad or text edit are not part of an OS; they are part of a platform or distribution. the OS is the kernal and basic I/O interfaces...that is it.



    Linux or BSD (kernal) == OS



    Windows, MacOSX, Fedora core == platforms.



    Nope, sorry. A kernel is not the OS.
  • Reply 27 of 46
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by mynamehere

    You can. It's called MacOS.



    No, it's not.
  • Reply 28 of 46
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,740member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by a_greer

    Linux or BSD (kernal) == OS



    I take your point about OS X and Windows not being just OSes. Indeed, many of the things that come with them are applications. But your statement I've quoted above is just flat-out wrong.



    One of the major purposes of an operating system is to provide APIs for people to program to. APIs are not part of the kernel.
  • Reply 29 of 46
    skatmanskatman Posts: 609member
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Chucker

    Yeah, no shit.



    Really, now.



    I guess you should have told the designers of System 1 (Mac OS 1.0 for you late-comers), Windows 1.0 (which was pretty much exclusively a file manager), etc.

    [\\quote]



    And it was. We can call it OS, horse, or anything else... but it sat on top of DOS and didn't do much besides file manage. Windows (non NT) didn't start to do real OS stuff until version 3.



    Quote:

    Are you sure you're not confusing "OS" and "kernel"?



    I'm sure.



    Quote:

    Any half-way useful OS comes with a whole buttload of applications.



    Problem is, these applications are, almost never, the best ones because they come with OS and are not subject to natural competition. Many of them I never even use so all they do is take up space and resources.

    However, these are applications... and saying that Windows is a poor OS because the basic file management application included doesn't have the menus laid out the way you want it to is silly!



    Quote:

    Yes, yes it does. Initial post-installation user experience is extremely important. Apple knows this. Microsoft knows this.



    Most people buy their computers with OS installed. Not only that, but OEMs completely trash you computer with their "sponsor's" software, malware, adware, crippleware... (Apple is one of the very few companies who doesn't do that)

    So there goes your "post-installation" experience. Buy from Dell, you get a trashed PC. Buy from the likes of Apple or Fujitsu and you get lean and mean software install.



    Quote:

    Ah, "core function". Now we're going down "ambiguous terms" hill. Is the kernel "the core"?



    I already told you that the core function of the OS (something that no other software on your PC can do), is the software-software and software-hardware interaction through API, and resource management and sharing.



    Quote:

    Is the GUI part of "the core"?



    No... I hope not. In a perfect world I would like to put any GUI I want... I've always used Win 95 GUI on top of Windows 98 kernel (Windows 98 Lite)... and still use standard Windows 98 type interface on XP. I do like OSX interface better than OS 9 though and use KDE far more often than Gnome in Linux.



    Quote:

    How about file system support?



    Absolutely a core function of OS.



    Quote:

    Or support for your DVD burner?



    Through a device driver.



    Quote:

    How about, say, a media framework, like QuickTime?



    Quicktime is a set of applications to view media encoded by Quicktime. That is all.



    Quote:

    Such as a file browser,



    Application.



    Quote:

    and a media player?



    Application.



    What's next?
  • Reply 30 of 46
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,740member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by skatman

    Quicktime is a set of applications to view media encoded by Quicktime. That is all.



    Wrong. Apple also refer to pretty much all their media-handling APIs and frameworks as QuickTime. APIs and frameworks are not applications.
  • Reply 31 of 46
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by skatman

    Quicktime is a set of applications



    MEEP!
  • Reply 32 of 46
    max_naylormax_naylor Posts: 194member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sandau

    bah, not for me, iTunes WILL NOT GO AWAY if i kill it. I have the worst trouble with iTunes and my iPod, and yes everything is up to date. That stupid POS of a program doesn't know when it has an iPod or not, so updating is a real hassle as it JUST DOESN'T WORK (everytime). This isn't the first OS X machine or first iPod I've had this problem with.



    iTunes is the primary reason for rebooting my machine other than software updates.



    But the rest of the processes seem to die fast.




    I seem to have experienced a similar problem. iTunes copies a few songs and then freezes... the process wouldn't quit, I had to reset my Mac!
  • Reply 33 of 46
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Originally posted by tonton

    Not only do I have to use WinXP at work... not only do I have to administer XP at work on 7 computers... but I have to administer XP at work on 7 computers in Chinese.



    But my gripes are mainly on usage of the OS.



    1) Why the HELL does it take so long to copy files?



    2) Why the HELL does it take so long to empty the "recycle bin"?



    3) Why the HELL, when you're copying files, if one file has an "in use error" does it abort the entire fucking process?



    4) How long does it take to search for something on YOUR hard drive?



    There are so many more issues... just thought I'd start here.






    The Network Copy is just plain fucked I could never get it to properly work for years.



    I commend you, as someone familiar with Mac, being able to put up with Windows and make a living/ part of your job dealing with the utter bullshit nonsense that is Windows in a corporate/ business type environment.



    Throw in knowing Chinese as well, and well bloody done.



    Here in Malaysia there are quite a few jobs for Windows admin for client/ server/ database/ whatever that require English and Mandarin knowledge. Can't imagine much of the tiny tiny Mac community here to be doing any of those jobs.
  • Reply 34 of 46
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Originally posted by a_greer

    Most of these symptoms boil down to one of three issues:



    1: Insufficiant RAM or HDD -- take junk like QTTASK (quicktime) realplayer, and the like out of startup and run an app like crapcleaner to clean the HDD



    2: your admin is running a crappy third party setup like Novell Netware (in an umproperly configured enviornment), or Symantec anything...



    3: bitrot...after so much general use, not to mention update, patches, and the like, a windows install degrades; even a properly configured windows box can be rotted in 6 months, that is why a lot of media pros and heavy power users running windows will reimage their systems in between projects or whenever they get some downtime...no less than once every 6 months, more if they install and remove stuff constantly.






    Sometimes it is just mind-boggling. Looking for work, I see tons and tons of Windows admin type jobs. After using a Mac, it's just phenomenal to see the sheer garbage Windows computing environment that most workplaces use.



    1. yeah way under-budgeted hardware to execute the job productively (the money saved by undercutting the hardware is lost through lower productivity)



    2. tons and tons of background crap that does this and that and whatever rubbish the admins are up to.



    3. bitrot: 6 months? Try 2 weeks. Updates, patches, spyware, anti-spyware, spam, proprietary nonsense. All worsened by additional nonsense (see no. 2 above)



    Hence again, I commend anyone with MCSE and so on and who does Windows admin jobs. I don't think I could ever put up with it once I worked mostly with Mac in 2001-2004.



    Now I run a very tight XP2 box for Internet and Gaming stuff . In a corporate environment my box would be horribly degraded and molested beyond my belief. I do a fresh install every 1 or 2 months, and don't download all sorts of rubbish tiny utilities, only the essentials like bittorrent software and vlc.
  • Reply 35 of 46
    skatmanskatman Posts: 609member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. H

    Wrong. Apple also refer to pretty much all their media-handling APIs and frameworks as QuickTime. APIs and frameworks are not applications.



    Quicktime is, at most, a low level application - like Java. It's has an interpretive virtual machine.

    Matlab does as well, so does Mathematica.



    I have Quicktime/ MS/ Macromdeia/ Java frameworks on my computer and these are not, in anyway related to the core of the OS.



    Quote:

    That must be why Windows XP still ships with a defragmentation application.



    Windows ships with a lot of garbage that's not needed.



    [quote]

    NTFS is more efficient at avoiding fragmentation than FAT32 is,

    [quote]



    That's not hard considering that FAT32 system has no defrag. on the fly capability built into the OS from the start although a few applications were available a while ago for Win9X. (mostly didn't work well because of the way Win9X shared file hooks and permissions)



    Quote:

    but it does not, to my knowledge, have the same level of anti-fragmentation techniques as OS X does (since 10.3 Panther).



    Maybe it doesn't have it quite to the same level as OS X does, but it does a great job of maintaning disks fragmentation to a minimum, if any at all. Certainly, fragmentation is NOT a problem with 2000 or XP NTFS as far as slowing down disk access goes.



    Quote:

    Now I run a very tight XP2 box for Internet and Gaming stuff . In a corporate environment my box would be horribly degraded and molested beyond my belief. I do a fresh install every 1 or 2 months, and don't download all sorts of rubbish tiny utilities, only the essentials like bittorrent software and vlc.



    If you have to do a fresh install every 1 or 2 months, you have no idea what you're doing. I'm sorry for the company that hired or will hire you as a Windows IT manager/ support.

    If you know what you're doing, a Windows install on good hardware will last for years.



    That's the problem with most people claiming to be Windows (or OSX or Linux for that matter) IT specialists... they may have all of the MCSE certifications (which are a complete crock of shit anyway), but in real life they can't keep a few computers running properly and complain all the time. If you know what you're doing, it's easy come easy go!
  • Reply 36 of 46
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by skatman

    I have Quicktime/ MS/ Macromdeia/ Java frameworks on my computer and these are not, in anyway related to the core of the OS.



    You should let Apple know. They seem to have a misconception about how their own OS operates.



    (WTF, mate.)



    Quote:

    Certainly, fragmentation is NOT a problem with 2000 or XP NTFS as far as slowing down disk access goes.



    As an admin of a Windows 2000 ActiveDirectory-based network, I can tell you you're wrong. Specifically, the registry and the pagefile get highly fragmented. Running PageDefrag upon every boot makes a huge difference.
  • Reply 37 of 46
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Originally posted by skatman

    If you have to do a fresh install every 1 or 2 months, you have no idea what you're doing. I'm sorry for the company that hired or will hire you as a Windows IT manager/ support.

    If you know what you're doing, a Windows install on good hardware will last for years.



    That's the problem with most people claiming to be Windows (or OSX or Linux for that matter) IT specialists... they may have all of the MCSE certifications (which are a complete crock of shit anyway), but in real life they can't keep a few computers running properly and complain all the time. If you know what you're doing, it's easy come easy go!






    I'm just a regular windows user, not an IT admin, and yes, pity the companies that hire me to do Windows admin. The fresh install every 1 or 2 months is my own preference and "anal-ness" in keeping things brand spanking new in its own way. Also occassionally I fool around with overclock settings so that corrupts the registry when I push things too hard. Hence the reinstalls.



    "A windows install on good hardware will last for years" is total garbage. Windows rot sets in nowadays pretty fast. 6 months is pretty much as far as things go nowadays. You may be a super-admin dude, but really, last for years? In the current Windows-rubbish environment? Come on. My common sense with using Windows and seeing it operate in corporate environments over the past several years attest to this. 6 months max. Beyond that you may not reinstall but the computer rot will set in and sure, you may reinstall maybe after a year, but the last few months of that year would be very painful for the user, IMO. Most admins will really not be able to pull off "last for years". Kudos to you.



    edit: I guess I'm sounding like an ass here but "last for years" sounds so preposterous to me. Despite my sarcasm (I just had to get it out of my system)... [not sarcastic now: I really do admire you if you really can keep what, servers, 30-50++? users, corporate environment software, running for several years easy-peasy without reinstalls. On top of that you have time to be a Mac user and put up with Windows]
  • Reply 38 of 46
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    "A windows install on good hardware will last for years" is total garbage. Windows rot sets in nowadays pretty fast. 6 months is pretty much as far as things go nowadays. You may be a super-admin dude, but really, last for years? In the current Windows-rubbish environment? Come on. My common sense with using Windows and seeing it operate in corporate environments over the past several years attest to this. 6 months max. Beyond that you may not reinstall but the computer rot will set in and sure, you may reinstall maybe after a year, but the last few months of that year would be very painful for the user, IMO. Most admins will really not be able to pull off "last for years". Kudos to you.



    Here I'll have to disagree. Yes, I can pull off "last for years".
  • Reply 39 of 46
    Quote:

    Originally posted by skatman

    Quicktime is, at most, a low level application - like Java. It's has an interpretive virtual machine.

    Matlab does as well, so does Mathematica.



    I have Quicktime/ MS/ Macromdeia/ Java frameworks on my computer and these are not, in anyway related to the core of the OS.





    No, that's the QuickTime Player.



    QuickTime itself is an API/Library/Framework. You can include the QuickTime headers into any application you're programming, for Mac and Windows, to play and manipulate video.
  • Reply 40 of 46
    Guys, Ima jump in here and hopefully not get flamed too much, but some of these complaints really seem to be user error.



    I'm the desktop admin for a hosptial group of four. In our facility alone I manage over 900 desktops (all XPSP2) 80 tablets (motion tablet XP) and around 90 laptops. We are running a layer 4 switching network, 4 exchange 2003 srvs (all clustered), 2003 server AD. We use virtual servers on ESX for a lot of application and some tradition rack mounted servers as well. I manage all desktop updates with WSUS '03 and push all antivirus out using Symantec Control Center. For wireless connections we a tool that interfaces Group Policies over LDAP and can push user policies via MAC addresses or tradtional group roles. In other words we can lock down what a user does and see's. For deploying machines we simply install a standard build on one machine and RIPREP it. So in other words if I need to blast a machine or deploy new ones the techs can boot off the newtork via PXE, hit F12, and choose a RIS image of that model. BAM 10 min later full OS plus apps. Couldn't be easier. Knock on wood, haven't had a virus in 3 years.



    Some of these posts are hilarious though!
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