If Apple make something like this soon, it isn't going to take Microsoft very long, with their new corporate structure, to create a meld of these three microsoft products. They already have all the hardware, software and systems in place.
I disagree, Microsoft is still a software company, and their adoption of Blue Ray or HD-DVD will not be viewed by the general public as a neccessary reason for supporting either one.
I think we all have to admit the lines are blurring between computers and consumer electronics. There is no hard line of delineation and they both influence each other.
MS by itself will not win the war for HD-DVD. But MS owning 90% of the computer market will undoubtedly have a major influence.
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This would be true if all of us use Windows Media in our media centers, but this isn't the case nor will it be in the future will it?
The majority of Windows users (who are the majority of computer users) use Windows Media.
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If your speaking strictly of computer playback, well then I still fail to see the awesome power of Microsoft considering they didn't even have native playback for DVDs in XP
Well that was quite a different time. MS is now actively supporting HD-DVD in its OS and in its gaming console. One of these two are likely to be used by nearly a billion people.
I think we all have to admit the lines are blurring between computers and consumer electronics. There is no hard line of delineation and they both influence each other.
MS by itself will not win the war for HD-DVD. But MS owning 90% of the computer market will undoubtedly have a major influence.
Microsoft owns like 90% of the computer SOFTWARE market. This is the point. What good is it to have native support of HD DVD for software--that again will come well after Blu-ray has taken a foothold--when most of the hardware that will be shipped in the computer market by Dell, HP, Sony, Panasonic, and Apple (since Apple can now dual boot) will have Blu-ray drives in their hardware? Hmm?
Quote:
The majority of Windows users (who are the majority of computer users) use Windows Media.
Well that was quite a different time. MS is now actively supporting HD-DVD in its OS and in its gaming console. One of these two are likely to be used by nearly a billion people.
Again, even if the majority of Windows users use Windows Media, my point is, how many actual Media Centers are out there where people actually utilize Windows Media. Answer, not many. You are assuming everyone will be using their home PC for their media center which is not the case. I know Microsoft would like it to be the case, but it is not.
Regarding their gaming console, the Xbox 360 as a media center, I think this will be a failure as well. There are a couple of reasons for this...
1) The Xbox 360 comes only with a standard DVD drive, not what you want in the next iteration of HD capable (Blu-ray or HD DVD) media centers.
2) If you do want a HD drive with your Xbox360, you'll have to purchase a HD DVD add-on--which I might add have been historically shown to be failures (add-ons). That is, of course, if you think people will want their Media Centers looking like an octopus.
3) The Xbox 360 add-on is expected to be $199 which would put it right in the same pricing of the PS3, but of course the PS3 would have their (Blu-ray) drive built in. This price was posted on the official Xbox 360 website, but was later recanted once the PS3 pricing was revealed. "Official pricing" is supposed to come now at a later date.
4) The Xbox 360 add-on will also only be capable of 720P output and does not have an HDMI port, something that is dwarfed in comparison to other media centers, like the PS3 who will be outputting to 1080P and again, with a built-in drive.
My point here is that while Microsoft effort is a good one, their software pull isn't going to get them very far in the Media Center market place in my opinion. Given their history of buggy software, it is the last place consumers want to be interupted (while trying to watch TV programs or movies) with crashes of some kind, let alone an inferior product not even capable of full HD resolution.
I don't understand why most of you think blu-ray will win? It' has a few things going against it. Cost if the first and foremost it is much more expensive then HD-DVD players, then there is the branding aspect. HD-DVD as a brand name is so much stronger given it has the name "DVD" in it. Third most consumers don't know crap about what 720p and 1080p is, and many people already own HDTV's without HDMI so that will not be a factor for them.
I don't understand why most of you think blu-ray will win? It' has a few things going against it. Cost if the first and foremost it is much more expensive then HD-DVD players, then there is the branding aspect. HD-DVD as a brand name is so much stronger given it has the name "DVD" in it. Third most consumers don't know crap about what 720p and 1080p is, and many people already own HDTV's without HDMI so that will not be a factor for them.
Wrong, cost is not first and foremost, especially when we are speaking about an early adoption market. Also, it is NOT much more expesive than HD DVD. HD DVD and Blu-ray discs are the SAME price. Also, the low end PS3 is priced the SAME as Toshiba's player at $499. Price is equal in this instance, so please save us the false cost mantra.
Also, regarding the branding aspect, I think Blu-ray is a much better name in that consumers will associate the name Blu-ray with a more profound change than from DVD to HD DVD. I don't think a lot of consumers will associate a change from the name DVD to one with more letters--to add to the already growing sector of acronym soup. Regardless, it will come down to who can market their name better and considering that HD DVD has been out for a couple of months now and people still fail to realize what HD DVD is right now, I think Blu-ray has quite the shot to roll over their competition--especially considering how small the competition is as well (Toshiba/Microsoft vs. The rest of the industry (Dell,Apple, HP, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Sharp, LG, Pioneer, TDK, need I go on?)
Let's just say you'll most likely be hearing the name Blu-ray being marketed quite more heavily than HD DVD in the coming months ahead.
My bet is that people who drop over $2,000 for a HDTV will indeed know crap about resolution before they just throw away their money. Indeed there maybe some who still won't know crap about 720P or 1080P, but even if they don't, you don't think the salesman at the local store is not going to try and shmooze the clueless into buying more capable models, especially with 1080P models popping up all over the place? And, with only a small percentage of homes owning a HDTV currently and with it growing immensely, you don't think 1080P is going to be a factor? Make no mistake, it will and does matter.
I think Apple has a wonderful shot at making a great Media Center with 1080P output, a built in Blu-ray drive, and DVR funtionality all in one solid package. Whether they'll ever do it, remains to be seen.
The low-end PS3 does not come with HDMI output, whereas the HD-DVD player does. Big difference there if you want to enjoy 1080p. Also of note, I know quite alot of people who own HDTV's and when I ask them what resolutions it supports they just look at me like I'm speaking in another language. I think you give the average consumer too much credit.
I also think you give too much credit to MS, since their support really doesn't make much difference outside of a name to tag onto it. The format war will only hurt consumers and companies in the end.
I know quite alot of people who own HDTV's and when I ask them what resolutions it supports they just look at me like I'm speaking in another language. I think you give the average consumer too much credit.
Most of these people were likely people who were buying new TV's anyway and ended up with an HD set ?in preparation.? The majority of them probably do not even have an HD signal at the moment and a large percentage probably only have HDTV monitor capability...
People who go out specifically to purchase an HD set tend to do some research and know what they have because they purchased an expensive set. In my case, my 110? HD projector cost me more than my first car so you can bet I had a clue.
As for Blue-Ray/HD-DVD, I for one hope that Blue-Ray wins the war. If they don't, it may cost the studios a lot of sales. Having converted my favorite films from VHS to Laser Disk to DVD, I hereby refuse to do it more than one more time...
HD-DVD is a kludge. It just barely has enough storage capacity to be useful. That means that its life expectancy is much shorter than Blue-Ray. So not wanting to convert to HD-DVD and then to Blue-Ray2 or whatever follows it, if Blue-Ray doesn't win, I don't buy this time around.
The lack of storage space also makes HD-DVD almost worthless for computer uses. It would take 24 HD-DVD?s to back up my system. With the new HD technology, 500GB drives will be much more prevalent; HD-DVD is just too little, too late?
The low-end PS3 does not come with HDMI output, whereas the HD-DVD player does. Big difference there if you want to enjoy 1080p. Also of note, I know quite alot of people who own HDTV's and when I ask them what resolutions it supports they just look at me like I'm speaking in another language. I think you give the average consumer too much credit.
I also think you give too much credit to MS, since their support really doesn't make much difference outside of a name to tag onto it. The format war will only hurt consumers and companies in the end.
Please review Toshiba's player's specs my friend. It only does 1080i output, not 1080P. In other words, both the low end machines from both Blu-ray and HD DVD will be doing 1080i. However, for $100 more you can get full 1080P output as well as and HDMI port with the $599 PS3. The same cannot be said for Toshiba's $800 model--that is doing 1080P as it is only 1080i capable as well.
I give to much credit to MS? Huh? Read my previous posts, as I've stated quite clearly that MS support and presence in this arena is overblown. Not sure how you came to this statement.
I think Blu-ray has quite the shot to roll over their competition--especially considering how small the competition is as well (Toshiba/Microsoft vs. The rest of the industry (Dell,Apple, HP, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Sharp, LG, Pioneer, TDK, need I go on?)
LOL...here's how easy it is to expose Marzetta7. He lists Apple, HP and LG as the competition for HD DVD and thus Blu-Ray exclusive. Here's how you beat misinformation.
Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards?Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.
Straight from Apple's PR page. Yet Marzetta7 is telling YOU that Apple is Blu-Rat exclusively. Consider the source.
In order to provide consumers with the best possible high-definition experience, HP today announced it will support the HD-DVD high-definition DVD format, in addition to the Blu-ray Disc format, and join the HD-DVD Promotions Group.
Again Marzetta7 paints HP as an HD DVD competitor despite the "real" information sitting right on HP's website. Again blatant misinformation
HD-DVD is a kludge. It just barely has enough storage capacity to be useful. That means that its life expectancy is much shorter than Blue-Ray. So not wanting to convert to HD-DVD and then to Blue-Ray2 or whatever follows it, if Blue-Ray doesn't win, I don't buy this time around.
Depends on how you define kludge.
HD DVD doesn't require caddies or a special protective layer to keep the data from being damaged beyond playability. This saves me money as a consumer and as a producer.
HD DVD has had dual layer capability from day one with high 90 percentile yields. Blu-Ray is yielding below %50 for 50GB discs. Did you notice how Ultraviolet (a movie panned by critics and fans) is one of the first DL BD-ROM discs. It's because Sony knows the demand will be very low. Speaks volumes doesn't it.
Most HD DVD discs avg about 18Mbps datarate. This is 8 Gigabytes per hour for the video maximum. That gives us just under 4 hours for video. More than enough for almost all movies. I expect that as the encoding process gets better the avg bitrate will drop down to 14-16Mbps yielding more time.
Blu-Ray is not an impressive backup system. A SL disc costs $25. A dollar a gig is twice as expensive as magnetic hard drives and over four time that of tape plus it's slow at a max of 8MBps. Backing up to BD or HD DVD is totally illogical as both formats are simply poor backup mediums for the size they offer.
If you love technology for the sake of technology you're a Blu-Ray fan. If you are pragmatic and realize that you simply want low cost high quality HD material then you want HD DVD.
Because a media centre is most likely going be recording home projects I think a Red Laser DVD Burner makes the most sense right now. Utilizing DIVX or AVC can easily get HD video on a DVD-9 disc.
LOL...here's how easy it is to expose Marzetta7. He lists Apple, HP and LG as the competition for HD DVD and thus Blu-Ray exclusive. Here's how you beat misinformation.
Again more misinformation. In fact at CES 2006 LG showed their HD-199 and BD-199 HD DVD and Blu-Ray players respectively.
If he can't get this basic information out without resorting to FUD then imagine what other incorrect info he's giving out.
Wow, did I ever state HP or LG as Blu-ray exclusive? Actually state it? Nope, you somehow inferred it. Do yourself a favor, and don't go down this road, as we all know you are going to lose this one. Honestly, do you want me to post backers of Blu-ray vs HD DVD? Expose how weak your argument is, as well as HD DVD's support?
For the sake of time and getting this thread back on topic, I urge those who want to know the truth, that is how often Murch has been wrong (time & time & time again) concerning Blu-ray and his FUD campaign, read those posts listed under the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD forum.
It's always those pesky little facts that will continue to discredit your agruments, no matter how you attempt to flame Sony and others of the BDA. Don't be mad just because HD DVD is DOA, it is not my fault, there have been countless others trying to tell you the same thing.
HD DVD doesn't require caddies or a special protective layer to keep the data from being damaged beyond playability. This saves me money as a consumer and as a producer.
More FUD. Blu-ray does NOT require caddies. In addition, isn't it nice that Blu-ray WILL have a special protective coating like DURABIS that it will make it more durable than current DVD technology as well as HD DVD since, yup you guessed it, HD DVD is NOT doing ANYTHING in regards to protecting your optical media.
Furthermore, stop it with the "saves me money" crap as we are all growing tired of this false statement. How many times to I have to correct you man. The COST to the CONSUMER or PRODUCER for Blu-ray and HD DVD discs are the SAME. Same, as in identical, same, as in equal. Can we call you the Godfather of FUD?
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HD DVD has had dual layer capability from day one with high 90 percentile yields. Blu-Ray is yielding below %50 for 50GB discs. Did you notice how Ultraviolet (a movie panned by critics and fans) is one of the first DL BD-ROM discs. It's because Sony knows the demand will be very low. Speaks volumes doesn't it.
What speaks volumes is the amount of FUD you spew. Please give us evidence as to how you are so inept in the inner workings of Blu-ray disc yields? Or, are you just going to smother us with the vague "inside industry sources" garbage as well concerning this? Kinda like your "inside industry sources" that have been telling you about how China is going to come save the day for HD DVD somehow. Whatever, FUDman.
At least you are recognizing that there will indeed be DL BD-ROM movies from Blu-ray on launch. Progress I guess, considering the FUD of only SL media being availbale was flowing through your body just a few weeks ago.
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If you love technology for the sake of technology you're a Blu-Ray fan. If you are pragmatic and realize that you simply want low cost high quality HD material then you want HD DVD.
Because a media centre is most likely going be recording home projects I think a Red Laser DVD Burner makes the most sense right now. Utilizing DIVX or AVC can easily get HD video on a DVD-9 disc.
More like if you love technology, love a great quality product that is future-proof, love the greater degree of durability, and love the best format that the industry can give you at this time, you're a Blu-ray fan.
If you like manufacturers who cut corners, release a technological inferior product all the while charging you the SAME (with my empasis added) price for the superior one, spew out hardware capable of lower resolution, slow load times, buggy software, and rely on a campaign of FUD (Microsoft's omnipotency, China as the savior of HD DVD, Blu-ray discs cost more, no DL Blu-ray media (claimed as a pipe dream), no Mandatory Managed Copy on Blu-ray, Hollywood studios defecting, Blu-ray discs requiring caddies (that's a new one), poor Blu-ray disc yields, PS3 costing $800, etc.), then you want HD DVD.
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If he can't get this basic information out without resorting to FUD then imagine what other incorrect info he's giving out.
Funny thing is, I don't even have to imagine what incorrect info you're giving out, I just have to read your posts. Did I miss any other FUD from you up above there Mr. Redmond?
I don't think the internet will replace cable as some have suggested. First of all, the cable industry is way to rigid of a market to change right now. Second, this would require serious bandwidth and speed increases.
And certainly the broadcasting of digital TV (not internet or cable) in HD is much more effective than sending it through an internet line. And even the same is true for satelite and cable. Imagine if everytime you wanted to switch channels you had to wait 30 seconds. That would blow.
As far as Apple's "Media Center", I think:
- Should have DVR + TV Tuner. Apple could offer a deal where you pay $2 to remove comercials.
- Should have iPod dock
- Should have airport capabilities (possible airport base station capabilities)
- Should have expanded front row interface
- Compatible with wireless keyboard sold seperatly
- RSS feeds from computer (wireless)
- Internet browser
- Video camera / iSight module sold seperatly.
- Apple On Demand Movie service (via Cable not Internet)
**think if Apple bought Scientific-Atlanta**
- DVD player - Apple wants to REPLACE your media solution not compliment it. Add a dvd player with an upgrade to a dvd burner to burn DVR content.
- Optional Hard Drive to store DVR content locally. Otherwise DVR content is sent to computer to be stored and later streamed from the computer for viewing.
Comments
1) Xbox 360
2) Ultimate TV (http://www.ultimatetv.com)
3) MSN TV (msntv.com)
They would need a decent interface to handle everything these products have to offer, but it is doable, it is just a matter of time.
The sad thing is, it will take Microsoft 2-3 years to figure this out.
The really sad thing is we know Apple could do a better job of, but most likely would be 7 years out.
1) Pippen Replacement (Able to play games made for Mac computers)
2) Build a STB merging Tivo/Akimbo functionality.
3) MacMini that can be made to do both above plus surf the internet.
just a thought.
I disagree, Microsoft is still a software company, and their adoption of Blue Ray or HD-DVD will not be viewed by the general public as a neccessary reason for supporting either one.
I think we all have to admit the lines are blurring between computers and consumer electronics. There is no hard line of delineation and they both influence each other.
MS by itself will not win the war for HD-DVD. But MS owning 90% of the computer market will undoubtedly have a major influence.
This would be true if all of us use Windows Media in our media centers, but this isn't the case nor will it be in the future will it?
The majority of Windows users (who are the majority of computer users) use Windows Media.
If your speaking strictly of computer playback, well then I still fail to see the awesome power of Microsoft considering they didn't even have native playback for DVDs in XP
Well that was quite a different time. MS is now actively supporting HD-DVD in its OS and in its gaming console. One of these two are likely to be used by nearly a billion people.
Originally posted by TenoBell
The majority of Windows users (who are the majority of computer users) use Windows Media.
I'd like to see some hard proof of that. I don't beieve it for a second being that I've never seen windows media outside of comp usa.
Originally posted by TenoBell
I think we all have to admit the lines are blurring between computers and consumer electronics. There is no hard line of delineation and they both influence each other.
MS by itself will not win the war for HD-DVD. But MS owning 90% of the computer market will undoubtedly have a major influence.
Microsoft owns like 90% of the computer SOFTWARE market. This is the point. What good is it to have native support of HD DVD for software--that again will come well after Blu-ray has taken a foothold--when most of the hardware that will be shipped in the computer market by Dell, HP, Sony, Panasonic, and Apple (since Apple can now dual boot) will have Blu-ray drives in their hardware? Hmm?
The majority of Windows users (who are the majority of computer users) use Windows Media.
Well that was quite a different time. MS is now actively supporting HD-DVD in its OS and in its gaming console. One of these two are likely to be used by nearly a billion people.
Again, even if the majority of Windows users use Windows Media, my point is, how many actual Media Centers are out there where people actually utilize Windows Media. Answer, not many. You are assuming everyone will be using their home PC for their media center which is not the case. I know Microsoft would like it to be the case, but it is not.
Regarding their gaming console, the Xbox 360 as a media center, I think this will be a failure as well. There are a couple of reasons for this...
1) The Xbox 360 comes only with a standard DVD drive, not what you want in the next iteration of HD capable (Blu-ray or HD DVD) media centers.
2) If you do want a HD drive with your Xbox360, you'll have to purchase a HD DVD add-on--which I might add have been historically shown to be failures (add-ons). That is, of course, if you think people will want their Media Centers looking like an octopus.
3) The Xbox 360 add-on is expected to be $199 which would put it right in the same pricing of the PS3, but of course the PS3 would have their (Blu-ray) drive built in. This price was posted on the official Xbox 360 website, but was later recanted once the PS3 pricing was revealed. "Official pricing" is supposed to come now at a later date.
4) The Xbox 360 add-on will also only be capable of 720P output and does not have an HDMI port, something that is dwarfed in comparison to other media centers, like the PS3 who will be outputting to 1080P and again, with a built-in drive.
My point here is that while Microsoft effort is a good one, their software pull isn't going to get them very far in the Media Center market place in my opinion. Given their history of buggy software, it is the last place consumers want to be interupted (while trying to watch TV programs or movies) with crashes of some kind, let alone an inferior product not even capable of full HD resolution.
Originally posted by scavanger
I don't understand why most of you think blu-ray will win? It' has a few things going against it. Cost if the first and foremost it is much more expensive then HD-DVD players, then there is the branding aspect. HD-DVD as a brand name is so much stronger given it has the name "DVD" in it. Third most consumers don't know crap about what 720p and 1080p is, and many people already own HDTV's without HDMI so that will not be a factor for them.
Wrong, cost is not first and foremost, especially when we are speaking about an early adoption market. Also, it is NOT much more expesive than HD DVD. HD DVD and Blu-ray discs are the SAME price. Also, the low end PS3 is priced the SAME as Toshiba's player at $499. Price is equal in this instance, so please save us the false cost mantra.
Also, regarding the branding aspect, I think Blu-ray is a much better name in that consumers will associate the name Blu-ray with a more profound change than from DVD to HD DVD. I don't think a lot of consumers will associate a change from the name DVD to one with more letters--to add to the already growing sector of acronym soup. Regardless, it will come down to who can market their name better and considering that HD DVD has been out for a couple of months now and people still fail to realize what HD DVD is right now, I think Blu-ray has quite the shot to roll over their competition--especially considering how small the competition is as well (Toshiba/Microsoft vs. The rest of the industry (Dell,Apple, HP, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Sharp, LG, Pioneer, TDK, need I go on?)
Let's just say you'll most likely be hearing the name Blu-ray being marketed quite more heavily than HD DVD in the coming months ahead.
My bet is that people who drop over $2,000 for a HDTV will indeed know crap about resolution before they just throw away their money. Indeed there maybe some who still won't know crap about 720P or 1080P, but even if they don't, you don't think the salesman at the local store is not going to try and shmooze the clueless into buying more capable models, especially with 1080P models popping up all over the place? And, with only a small percentage of homes owning a HDTV currently and with it growing immensely, you don't think 1080P is going to be a factor? Make no mistake, it will and does matter.
I think Apple has a wonderful shot at making a great Media Center with 1080P output, a built in Blu-ray drive, and DVR funtionality all in one solid package. Whether they'll ever do it, remains to be seen.
I also think you give too much credit to MS, since their support really doesn't make much difference outside of a name to tag onto it. The format war will only hurt consumers and companies in the end.
Originally posted by scavanger
I know quite alot of people who own HDTV's and when I ask them what resolutions it supports they just look at me like I'm speaking in another language. I think you give the average consumer too much credit.
Most of these people were likely people who were buying new TV's anyway and ended up with an HD set ?in preparation.? The majority of them probably do not even have an HD signal at the moment and a large percentage probably only have HDTV monitor capability...
People who go out specifically to purchase an HD set tend to do some research and know what they have because they purchased an expensive set. In my case, my 110? HD projector cost me more than my first car so you can bet I had a clue.
As for Blue-Ray/HD-DVD, I for one hope that Blue-Ray wins the war. If they don't, it may cost the studios a lot of sales. Having converted my favorite films from VHS to Laser Disk to DVD, I hereby refuse to do it more than one more time...
HD-DVD is a kludge. It just barely has enough storage capacity to be useful. That means that its life expectancy is much shorter than Blue-Ray. So not wanting to convert to HD-DVD and then to Blue-Ray2 or whatever follows it, if Blue-Ray doesn't win, I don't buy this time around.
The lack of storage space also makes HD-DVD almost worthless for computer uses. It would take 24 HD-DVD?s to back up my system. With the new HD technology, 500GB drives will be much more prevalent; HD-DVD is just too little, too late?
Corey
Originally posted by scavanger
The low-end PS3 does not come with HDMI output, whereas the HD-DVD player does. Big difference there if you want to enjoy 1080p. Also of note, I know quite alot of people who own HDTV's and when I ask them what resolutions it supports they just look at me like I'm speaking in another language. I think you give the average consumer too much credit.
I also think you give too much credit to MS, since their support really doesn't make much difference outside of a name to tag onto it. The format war will only hurt consumers and companies in the end.
Please review Toshiba's player's specs my friend. It only does 1080i output, not 1080P. In other words, both the low end machines from both Blu-ray and HD DVD will be doing 1080i. However, for $100 more you can get full 1080P output as well as and HDMI port with the $599 PS3. The same cannot be said for Toshiba's $800 model--that is doing 1080P as it is only 1080i capable as well.
I give to much credit to MS? Huh? Read my previous posts, as I've stated quite clearly that MS support and presence in this arena is overblown. Not sure how you came to this statement.
I think Blu-ray has quite the shot to roll over their competition--especially considering how small the competition is as well (Toshiba/Microsoft vs. The rest of the industry (Dell,Apple, HP, Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Sharp, LG, Pioneer, TDK, need I go on?)
LOL...here's how easy it is to expose Marzetta7. He lists Apple, HP and LG as the competition for HD DVD and thus Blu-Ray exclusive. Here's how you beat misinformation.
Apple
Apple's committment to the nextgen HD formats
Apple's quote
Apple is committed to both emerging high definition DVD standards?Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Apple is an active member of the DVD Forum which developed the HD DVD standard, and last month joined the Board of Directors of the Blu-ray Disc Association.
Straight from Apple's PR page. Yet Marzetta7 is telling YOU that Apple is Blu-Rat exclusively. Consider the source.
HP
HP joins the HD DVD Promotions Group and vows to support HD DVD
HP's quote
In order to provide consumers with the best possible high-definition experience, HP today announced it will support the HD-DVD high-definition DVD format, in addition to the Blu-ray Disc format, and join the HD-DVD Promotions Group.
Again Marzetta7 paints HP as an HD DVD competitor despite the "real" information sitting right on HP's website. Again blatant misinformation
LG
LG Joins HD DVD
LG to develop dual format player
Again more misinformation. In fact at CES 2006 LG showed their HD-199 and BD-199 HD DVD and Blu-Ray players respectively.
If he can't get this basic information out without resorting to FUD then imagine what other incorrect info he's giving out.
HD-DVD is a kludge. It just barely has enough storage capacity to be useful. That means that its life expectancy is much shorter than Blue-Ray. So not wanting to convert to HD-DVD and then to Blue-Ray2 or whatever follows it, if Blue-Ray doesn't win, I don't buy this time around.
Depends on how you define kludge.
HD DVD doesn't require caddies or a special protective layer to keep the data from being damaged beyond playability. This saves me money as a consumer and as a producer.
HD DVD has had dual layer capability from day one with high 90 percentile yields. Blu-Ray is yielding below %50 for 50GB discs. Did you notice how Ultraviolet (a movie panned by critics and fans) is one of the first DL BD-ROM discs. It's because Sony knows the demand will be very low. Speaks volumes doesn't it.
Most HD DVD discs avg about 18Mbps datarate. This is 8 Gigabytes per hour for the video maximum. That gives us just under 4 hours for video. More than enough for almost all movies. I expect that as the encoding process gets better the avg bitrate will drop down to 14-16Mbps yielding more time.
Blu-Ray is not an impressive backup system. A SL disc costs $25. A dollar a gig is twice as expensive as magnetic hard drives and over four time that of tape plus it's slow at a max of 8MBps. Backing up to BD or HD DVD is totally illogical as both formats are simply poor backup mediums for the size they offer.
If you love technology for the sake of technology you're a Blu-Ray fan. If you are pragmatic and realize that you simply want low cost high quality HD material then you want HD DVD.
Because a media centre is most likely going be recording home projects I think a Red Laser DVD Burner makes the most sense right now. Utilizing DIVX or AVC can easily get HD video on a DVD-9 disc.
Originally posted by hmurchison
LOL...here's how easy it is to expose Marzetta7. He lists Apple, HP and LG as the competition for HD DVD and thus Blu-Ray exclusive. Here's how you beat misinformation.
Apple
Apple's committment to the nextgen HD formats
Apple's quote
Straight from Apple's PR page. Yet Marzetta7 is telling YOU that Apple is Blu-Rat exclusively. Consider the source.
HP
HP joins the HD DVD Promotions Group and vows to support HD DVD
HP's quote
Again Marzetta7 paints HP as an HD DVD competitor despite the "real" information sitting right on HP's website. Again blatant misinformation
LG
LG Joins HD DVD
LG to develop dual format player
Again more misinformation. In fact at CES 2006 LG showed their HD-199 and BD-199 HD DVD and Blu-Ray players respectively.
If he can't get this basic information out without resorting to FUD then imagine what other incorrect info he's giving out.
Wow, did I ever state HP or LG as Blu-ray exclusive? Actually state it? Nope, you somehow inferred it. Do yourself a favor, and don't go down this road, as we all know you are going to lose this one. Honestly, do you want me to post backers of Blu-ray vs HD DVD? Expose how weak your argument is, as well as HD DVD's support?
For the sake of time and getting this thread back on topic, I urge those who want to know the truth, that is how often Murch has been wrong (time & time & time again) concerning Blu-ray and his FUD campaign, read those posts listed under the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD forum.
It's always those pesky little facts that will continue to discredit your agruments, no matter how you attempt to flame Sony and others of the BDA. Don't be mad just because HD DVD is DOA, it is not my fault, there have been countless others trying to tell you the same thing.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Depends on how you define kludge.
HD DVD doesn't require caddies or a special protective layer to keep the data from being damaged beyond playability. This saves me money as a consumer and as a producer.
More FUD. Blu-ray does NOT require caddies. In addition, isn't it nice that Blu-ray WILL have a special protective coating like DURABIS that it will make it more durable than current DVD technology as well as HD DVD since, yup you guessed it, HD DVD is NOT doing ANYTHING in regards to protecting your optical media.
Furthermore, stop it with the "saves me money" crap as we are all growing tired of this false statement. How many times to I have to correct you man. The COST to the CONSUMER or PRODUCER for Blu-ray and HD DVD discs are the SAME. Same, as in identical, same, as in equal. Can we call you the Godfather of FUD?
HD DVD has had dual layer capability from day one with high 90 percentile yields. Blu-Ray is yielding below %50 for 50GB discs. Did you notice how Ultraviolet (a movie panned by critics and fans) is one of the first DL BD-ROM discs. It's because Sony knows the demand will be very low. Speaks volumes doesn't it.
What speaks volumes is the amount of FUD you spew. Please give us evidence as to how you are so inept in the inner workings of Blu-ray disc yields? Or, are you just going to smother us with the vague "inside industry sources" garbage as well concerning this? Kinda like your "inside industry sources" that have been telling you about how China is going to come save the day for HD DVD somehow. Whatever, FUDman.
At least you are recognizing that there will indeed be DL BD-ROM movies from Blu-ray on launch. Progress I guess, considering the FUD of only SL media being availbale was flowing through your body just a few weeks ago.
If you love technology for the sake of technology you're a Blu-Ray fan. If you are pragmatic and realize that you simply want low cost high quality HD material then you want HD DVD.
Because a media centre is most likely going be recording home projects I think a Red Laser DVD Burner makes the most sense right now. Utilizing DIVX or AVC can easily get HD video on a DVD-9 disc.
More like if you love technology, love a great quality product that is future-proof, love the greater degree of durability, and love the best format that the industry can give you at this time, you're a Blu-ray fan.
If you like manufacturers who cut corners, release a technological inferior product all the while charging you the SAME (with my empasis added) price for the superior one, spew out hardware capable of lower resolution, slow load times, buggy software, and rely on a campaign of FUD (Microsoft's omnipotency, China as the savior of HD DVD, Blu-ray discs cost more, no DL Blu-ray media (claimed as a pipe dream), no Mandatory Managed Copy on Blu-ray, Hollywood studios defecting, Blu-ray discs requiring caddies (that's a new one), poor Blu-ray disc yields, PS3 costing $800, etc.), then you want HD DVD.
If he can't get this basic information out without resorting to FUD then imagine what other incorrect info he's giving out.
Funny thing is, I don't even have to imagine what incorrect info you're giving out, I just have to read your posts.
And certainly the broadcasting of digital TV (not internet or cable) in HD is much more effective than sending it through an internet line. And even the same is true for satelite and cable. Imagine if everytime you wanted to switch channels you had to wait 30 seconds. That would blow.
As far as Apple's "Media Center", I think:
- Should have DVR + TV Tuner. Apple could offer a deal where you pay $2 to remove comercials.
- Should have iPod dock
- Should have airport capabilities (possible airport base station capabilities)
- Should have expanded front row interface
- Compatible with wireless keyboard sold seperatly
- RSS feeds from computer (wireless)
- Internet browser
- Video camera / iSight module sold seperatly.
- Apple On Demand Movie service (via Cable not Internet)
**think if Apple bought Scientific-Atlanta**
- DVD player - Apple wants to REPLACE your media solution not compliment it. Add a dvd player with an upgrade to a dvd burner to burn DVR content.
- Optional Hard Drive to store DVR content locally. Otherwise DVR content is sent to computer to be stored and later streamed from the computer for viewing.