Is it just the current G4s that are the bottleneck?
Is it because they only support 133MHz fsb at 1 or 1.3 gig per second and they (current G4s) don't support DDR ram at 2.7 gigs per second??
If that's the case then the motherboard is ready for an updated processor and it's the current G4 chip that is the bottleneck, not anything on the new motherboard...right?
<strong>Interesting. Remember that the new dual gig has half the L3 cache as the old one - 1MB/processor vs. 2Mb/processor.
The article says the new chip is a 747x and is capable of a DDR FSB, and if we all scream loud enough Apple will silently upgrade the bus to full DDR.
:eek:
I find it hard to believe anything this guy says if such nonsense escapes from his head.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I believe that the new Power Macs are still using the 745X chips that don't support DDR, but the new chips that are not out yet (747X) will support DDR fully and we will then see a jump in actual speed.
The increase in bandwidth is between the memory controller and the rest of the system (PCI, AGP, etc). NOT between the memory controller and the processor - the 7455 is still hampered by MPX limitations here, Apple has no control over this.
It is AGP and PCI intensive operations that will see an improvement.
As far as "The 25% faster system bus seems of no help, either. Depressing. Scandalous!"; for a significant boost in performance, you need tasks that are already constrained by memory bandwidth. If the CPU is already being fed with data as fast as it can handle it in a given test; increasing the memory bandwidth will be of no benefit.
For example, I'm not familiar with MP3 encoding; but I speculate that it is the CPU that is the limiting factor - not memory.
The increase in bandwidth is between the memory controller and the rest of the system (PCI, AGP, etc). NOT between the memory controller and the processor - the 7455 is still hampered by MPX limitations here, Apple has no control over this.
It is AGP and PCI intensive operations that will see an improvement.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Technically the increase is between the memory and the memory controler. The AGP and PCI busses are industry standard and are just the same as in previous models.
Just the fact that Barefeats didn't know which chip was in the new tower (7455, NOT 7470) should tip you guys off. However, a wider bus will absolutely help in things that were previously bus constrained.
but I think you're all missing the point anyway... this is now the middle of the line, not the top. Furthermore, the dual 1 GHz Mac just took a $500 cut in price in addition to getting a faster bus, space for two optical drives and 4 hard drives, DDR, up to 2 GB of RAM now...
I honestly don't know what any of you are complaining about.
<strong>Interesting. Remember that the new dual gig has half the L3 cache as the old one - 1MB/processor vs. 2Mb/processor.
The article says the new chip is a 747x and is capable of a DDR FSB, and if we all scream loud enough Apple will silently upgrade the bus to full DDR.
:eek:
I find it hard to believe anything this guy says if such nonsense escapes from his head.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think what they meant to say is that the G4 supports "DDR speeds". That means 128-bit MPX instead of the current 64-bits. 128-bit MPX is just SDR with twice the throughput. The only problem is the motherboard would cost $$$$, and Motorola doesn't make 128-bit MPX chips. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Most have been said already, but I'll try to sum some here
The new DP1GHz has lost half of the former L3 cache. The large L3 cache has proven to help alot on performance, and will weigh up for alot of the increased bandwidth of the new PowerMacs.
The test was not very thorough, not including any game benchmarks, or anything that stresses the system-bus AND other parts like 1/0 and AGP at the same time (which would be _very_ interesting).
Barefeats is generally speaking clueless <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
I remember his brag about managing to tweak a DP1000 with GF4Ti (or was it DP800 w/ GF3?) and all shit to 184 fps in Quake 3: Arena. I mean, 184 fps is alot, but not really when I(and a friend)'ve tweaked a DP450 with regular RADEON AGP to 200,5 fps. I emailed him and gave him a tip then, and it actually has gotten somewhat better. But his benchmarking is still clueless.
I believe that the new Power Macs are still using the 745X chips that don't support DDR, but the new chips that are not out yet (747X) will support DDR fully and we will then see a jump in actual speed.
Please let me know if this is wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>Yes, it is a 7455, but the only reference I've ever seen to a 747x has been on MOSR. No one knows when or if Motorola will bring a DDR FSB to the G4.
That's what I was referring to. Oh, and the idea that if we just complain Apple will see the error of their ways and "silently" upgrade it.
We are all still unregistered??? , What a pit of hell this is.
Anyway, if these benchmarks do come up as all the same as the last MP 1GHz G4's, and in some cases worse across the board using different applications, Apple surely new about this, and is actually knowingly pulling a BS move on loyalists, fanatics, switchers, and consumers of all types. If thats true I think this is equil, or worse than anything M$ has done to piss me off in the past. I'm having a hard time dealing with this.
What the H3ll is going on arround here.
I've been seriously keeping faith in motorola for a few years now, but I'm ready for Apple to beg IBM for help here. This sickens me.
Comments
The article says the new chip is a 747x and is capable of a DDR FSB, and if we all scream loud enough Apple will silently upgrade the bus to full DDR.
:eek:
I find it hard to believe anything this guy says if such nonsense escapes from his head.
Is it just the current G4s that are the bottleneck?
Is it because they only support 133MHz fsb at 1 or 1.3 gig per second and they (current G4s) don't support DDR ram at 2.7 gigs per second??
If that's the case then the motherboard is ready for an updated processor and it's the current G4 chip that is the bottleneck, not anything on the new motherboard...right?
Thanks for your reply.
We cant even talk about the new 1.25 since they really have not been released yet.
<strong>Interesting. Remember that the new dual gig has half the L3 cache as the old one - 1MB/processor vs. 2Mb/processor.
The article says the new chip is a 747x and is capable of a DDR FSB, and if we all scream loud enough Apple will silently upgrade the bus to full DDR.
:eek:
I find it hard to believe anything this guy says if such nonsense escapes from his head.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I believe that the new Power Macs are still using the 745X chips that don't support DDR, but the new chips that are not out yet (747X) will support DDR fully and we will then see a jump in actual speed.
Please let me know if this is wrong.
The increase in bandwidth is between the memory controller and the rest of the system (PCI, AGP, etc). NOT between the memory controller and the processor - the 7455 is still hampered by MPX limitations here, Apple has no control over this.
It is AGP and PCI intensive operations that will see an improvement.
As far as "The 25% faster system bus seems of no help, either. Depressing. Scandalous!"; for a significant boost in performance, you need tasks that are already constrained by memory bandwidth. If the CPU is already being fed with data as fast as it can handle it in a given test; increasing the memory bandwidth will be of no benefit.
For example, I'm not familiar with MP3 encoding; but I speculate that it is the CPU that is the limiting factor - not memory.
<strong>
The increase in bandwidth is between the memory controller and the rest of the system (PCI, AGP, etc). NOT between the memory controller and the processor - the 7455 is still hampered by MPX limitations here, Apple has no control over this.
It is AGP and PCI intensive operations that will see an improvement.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Technically the increase is between the memory and the memory controler. The AGP and PCI busses are industry standard and are just the same as in previous models.
but I think you're all missing the point anyway... this is now the middle of the line, not the top. Furthermore, the dual 1 GHz Mac just took a $500 cut in price in addition to getting a faster bus, space for two optical drives and 4 hard drives, DDR, up to 2 GB of RAM now...
I honestly don't know what any of you are complaining about.
I rather just see a set of tests that measures time to completion on a selection of tasks on each machine.
<strong>Interesting. Remember that the new dual gig has half the L3 cache as the old one - 1MB/processor vs. 2Mb/processor.
The article says the new chip is a 747x and is capable of a DDR FSB, and if we all scream loud enough Apple will silently upgrade the bus to full DDR.
:eek:
I find it hard to believe anything this guy says if such nonsense escapes from his head.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think what they meant to say is that the G4 supports "DDR speeds". That means 128-bit MPX instead of the current 64-bits. 128-bit MPX is just SDR with twice the throughput. The only problem is the motherboard would cost $$$$, and Motorola doesn't make 128-bit MPX chips. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
The new DP1GHz has lost half of the former L3 cache. The large L3 cache has proven to help alot on performance, and will weigh up for alot of the increased bandwidth of the new PowerMacs.
The test was not very thorough, not including any game benchmarks, or anything that stresses the system-bus AND other parts like 1/0 and AGP at the same time (which would be _very_ interesting).
Barefeats is generally speaking clueless <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
Screed
[Addendum] Ah, found it:
<a href="http://www.xinet.com/benchmarks/benchmarks.2002/"; target="_blank">Xinet Benchmark Configurations</a>
[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]</p>
<strong>
Correction. TOTALLY clueless.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I remember his brag about managing to tweak a DP1000 with GF4Ti (or was it DP800 w/ GF3?) and all shit to 184 fps in Quake 3: Arena. I mean, 184 fps is alot, but not really when I(and a friend)'ve tweaked a DP450 with regular RADEON AGP to 200,5 fps. I emailed him and gave him a tip then, and it actually has gotten somewhat better. But his benchmarking is still clueless.
Someone needs to kill him and take his place
[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: r-0X#Zapchud ]
[ 08-15-2002: Message edited by: r-0X#Zapchud ]</p>
<strong>
I believe that the new Power Macs are still using the 745X chips that don't support DDR, but the new chips that are not out yet (747X) will support DDR fully and we will then see a jump in actual speed.
Please let me know if this is wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote>Yes, it is a 7455, but the only reference I've ever seen to a 747x has been on MOSR. No one knows when or if Motorola will bring a DDR FSB to the G4.
That's what I was referring to. Oh, and the idea that if we just complain Apple will see the error of their ways and "silently" upgrade it.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Anyway, if these benchmarks do come up as all the same as the last MP 1GHz G4's, and in some cases worse across the board using different applications, Apple surely new about this, and is actually knowingly pulling a BS move on loyalists, fanatics, switchers, and consumers of all types. If thats true I think this is equil, or worse than anything M$ has done to piss me off in the past. I'm having a hard time dealing with this.
What the H3ll is going on arround here.
I've been seriously keeping faith in motorola for a few years now, but I'm ready for Apple to beg IBM for help here. This sickens me.