I am a computer guy, Macs and PCs, only, I can't justify buying a new PC. I never want to run another MS operating system. I've had more troubles with WinXP (on my friend's computer) thant I ever did with System 6, 7, Mac OS 8, 9 and 10 combined. And trust me, I know what I'm doing on the PC front.
Currently I'm pricing out a new computer, and as a student who doesn't live in a multi-million pound house and who doesn't drive a Benz (I longboard for transportation and live with my parents) I need to save money. I can't afford a new G4, I want something more upgradable that an iMac and the iBook (which looks so tempting) would be portable overkill since for school I need a IBM ThinkPad. I keep on looking at PC options to build my own, but I refuse to run windows and although I've used Linux for about 4 years, I still don't consider it desktop worthy.
My option? I'm getting a 8600 from my boss (he CAN afford a new G4) and I'm gunna upgrade it to the nines. I mean G4 800, 1GB RAM 4 ATA HDDs in RAID and a PCI Radeon. For about $1000 I can get a decent computer, use OS X and be happy.
Being a Mac user does make many elitists, but I figure they all have a reason for it. I can't blame one of them.
--please excuse the poor grammar, spelling and structure of the post, it is Friday at 4:59pm and I am anxious to get out of the office and go home--
If you want a Windows or Linux based PC, GO BUY ONE.
There's a LOT more to owning a Mac than simple hardware specifications. It's called the User Experience. In a thousand ways, Mac OS X's interface and layout are easier and more logical than that of Windows -- and most CERTAINLY of the Linux breeds.
I suspect you just want a simple flame war rather than a serious discussion, though.
This thread will probably be locked in 3, 2...
- Brad</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sounds to me its you guys who are starting the flame wars. The high price of Apple hardware is worthy of discussion and an ongoing problem. $1700 as your cheapest tower offering is ridiculous..................
I somehow feel dirty when it comes time for me to defend Apple's pricing and product structure, but geez...
Some of you really have it ass backwards this time.
Who buys a fully loaded anything from the manufacturer???
NEVER buy Apple's upgrade options. For that matter be carefull about the DELL/IBM options you buy. It's easy to get fleeced when you max out a system straight from the vendor. Look at your local computer paper and you'll find drives, RAM, opticals, keyboards, monitors etc etc SUBSTANTIALLY CHEAPER than what you get from the manufacturer.
HARDWARE DOES NOT JUSTIFY ITSELF. That's one of the most retarded things I've read all day (and I read A LOT of retardation during my day). What are you going to do with that hardware? Write all your own code for everything from the OS/communications to an Office suite, all before you get to work?
The flip side, of course is that, SOFTWARE does not justify itself either. A platform could have the BEST apps, but if it has over-priced hardware of far too outdated spec or limited expansion, then even great software might not be the best solution.
SYSTEMS!!! justify themselves. The integration of software and hardware with price and support.
Are macs too expensive? YES! But the recent bottom end PM's come a lot closer than any macs before. For 1699, it's performance will be close enough to SP X86 boxes of similar dosh.
I think a side by side comparo of a DP867 and an SP P4 2.53 of similar price will show that performance-wise they are close. The P4 box might include more hardware features, better video/sound etc, but the Mac will have a much nicer OS, case design.
Apple now has a couple of models that though over-priced are at least worthy of consideration.
hmurchison- Yes, you're definitely right about a lot of rich ppl being cheap bastards. They're also less likely to give a bigger tip or give a poor person some money, a person playing his/her saxophone on the street some money. My gf definitely likes to have the best in terms of clothes, cars, everything. I honestly DON'T like that. She had a frickin Mercedes SLK or something and then got a Lexus SC430 like a few months after. Even if I were rich I wouldn't go out and spend $50 on a pair of pants or something, and she thinks that's cheap.
[quote]I'd get the mac for the same reason I would get a Harley Davidson over a Honda, more fun to ride<hr></blockquote>
But they're sooo different...
Harleys are slower, break down WAY more often, and are generally more a pain in the ass than a sport bike. The guys who got me into Macs in the first place all owned Suzukis. Faster, more fun to ride, more reliable.
About the only thing a Harley is better for is image. The way they break down, are only marginally faster than a '86 Hyundai Pony, and cost an arm and a leg... I'm surprised they sell as many as they do.
At least Macs are reliable as hell, pretty fast, AND nice looking.
I've never ridden a Harley, but supposedly they've gotten a whole lot better in the last few years. I dunno if magazines are paid to write advertorial. Harley sells something like 50% of all US bikes, so I'd want their ad money!
Anyway, apparently they don't break anymore and lots of them have many many thousands of miles under them. Supposedly they just run for miles and miles now. That still doesn't stop them from being rolling replicas of WW2 technology, but if they figured out how to make 'em last, hey that's cool.
Any Harley riders out there in Mac land?
They're finally building a liquid cooled engine, so maybe Harleys will get somewhat modern too?
Comments
<strong>i dunno- convince me</strong><hr></blockquote>
easy, one word, Palladium.
I am a computer guy, Macs and PCs, only, I can't justify buying a new PC. I never want to run another MS operating system. I've had more troubles with WinXP (on my friend's computer) thant I ever did with System 6, 7, Mac OS 8, 9 and 10 combined. And trust me, I know what I'm doing on the PC front.
Currently I'm pricing out a new computer, and as a student who doesn't live in a multi-million pound house and who doesn't drive a Benz (I longboard for transportation and live with my parents) I need to save money. I can't afford a new G4, I want something more upgradable that an iMac and the iBook (which looks so tempting) would be portable overkill since for school I need a IBM ThinkPad. I keep on looking at PC options to build my own, but I refuse to run windows and although I've used Linux for about 4 years, I still don't consider it desktop worthy.
My option? I'm getting a 8600 from my boss (he CAN afford a new G4) and I'm gunna upgrade it to the nines. I mean G4 800, 1GB RAM 4 ATA HDDs in RAID and a PCI Radeon. For about $1000 I can get a decent computer, use OS X and be happy.
Being a Mac user does make many elitists, but I figure they all have a reason for it. I can't blame one of them.
--please excuse the poor grammar, spelling and structure of the post, it is Friday at 4:59pm and I am anxious to get out of the office and go home--
Have a great weekend everyone.
i agree in SO many ways.
lokkie here - im def 100% gona buy a mac asap - BUT ..shit
i need to use a cpu in the 'real world'
is the mac the obv option ?
?
im gonna make a cheap pc - my bruvva can do that
an im gonna by a mac tower dual cpu..the bottom of th erange is strangely alluring.
As previuosly stated:
New State-of-the-art PM $4999.US
New State-of-the-art Jaguar OS $129.US
Where is the great Apps cost?
For the few that use the Highcost toy Apps in the new Jaguar, the rest of us have to subsidize it by paying outrageous prices for new Hardware.
If Jaguar reflected the real R&D cost, no-one could afford it.
Apple sells Low-end and High-end Hardware.
In order to sell a cheaper system they need to sell a Low-end and High-end OS?
:eek:
the high end system is $3,300, not $5,000
drop that custom system to 512MB of RAM and the price goes from $5,000 to $3,800. i bet you can find the chips for less than $400 each elsewhere.
please use somewhat intelligent numbers for your comparisons.....
[ 08-16-2002: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</p>
<strong>Please.
If you want a Windows or Linux based PC, GO BUY ONE.
There's a LOT more to owning a Mac than simple hardware specifications. It's called the User Experience. In a thousand ways, Mac OS X's interface and layout are easier and more logical than that of Windows -- and most CERTAINLY of the Linux breeds.
I suspect you just want a simple flame war rather than a serious discussion, though.
This thread will probably be locked in 3, 2...
- Brad</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sounds to me its you guys who are starting the flame wars. The high price of Apple hardware is worthy of discussion and an ongoing problem. $1700 as your cheapest tower offering is ridiculous..................
I don't know who the git is, the troll, or the troll-feeders.
Jet
Some of you really have it ass backwards this time.
Who buys a fully loaded anything from the manufacturer???
NEVER buy Apple's upgrade options. For that matter be carefull about the DELL/IBM options you buy. It's easy to get fleeced when you max out a system straight from the vendor. Look at your local computer paper and you'll find drives, RAM, opticals, keyboards, monitors etc etc SUBSTANTIALLY CHEAPER than what you get from the manufacturer.
HARDWARE DOES NOT JUSTIFY ITSELF. That's one of the most retarded things I've read all day (and I read A LOT of retardation during my day). What are you going to do with that hardware? Write all your own code for everything from the OS/communications to an Office suite, all before you get to work?
The flip side, of course is that, SOFTWARE does not justify itself either. A platform could have the BEST apps, but if it has over-priced hardware of far too outdated spec or limited expansion, then even great software might not be the best solution.
SYSTEMS!!! justify themselves. The integration of software and hardware with price and support.
Are macs too expensive? YES! But the recent bottom end PM's come a lot closer than any macs before. For 1699, it's performance will be close enough to SP X86 boxes of similar dosh.
I think a side by side comparo of a DP867 and an SP P4 2.53 of similar price will show that performance-wise they are close. The P4 box might include more hardware features, better video/sound etc, but the Mac will have a much nicer OS, case design.
Apple now has a couple of models that though over-priced are at least worthy of consideration.
<strong>..went to pc world yesterday - saw a compaq pressario 6000 - £1399 inc vat
next to it
pm g4 / 933 - £3399 inc vat
£2 thousand more - is the mac that much better?
i always knew apple prices were daft - but this is something else !
the g4 had a nicer screen imho and was verrrry fast but the pc was pretty nippy too - shame it looked so crappy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'd get the mac for the same reason I would get a Harley Davidson over a Honda, more fun to ride
Besides, anyone can ride a Honda or Suzuki. When I see someone driving a Harley, I go "okay, he's serious about his hobby...he doesn't mess around".
But they're sooo different...
Harleys are slower, break down WAY more often, and are generally more a pain in the ass than a sport bike. The guys who got me into Macs in the first place all owned Suzukis. Faster, more fun to ride, more reliable.
About the only thing a Harley is better for is image. The way they break down, are only marginally faster than a '86 Hyundai Pony, and cost an arm and a leg... I'm surprised they sell as many as they do.
At least Macs are reliable as hell, pretty fast, AND nice looking.
[ 08-16-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
Coutesy of <a href="http://www.danamania.com/"; target="_blank">dana</a>
Enough said.
Anyway, apparently they don't break anymore and lots of them have many many thousands of miles under them. Supposedly they just run for miles and miles now. That still doesn't stop them from being rolling replicas of WW2 technology, but if they figured out how to make 'em last, hey that's cool.
Any Harley riders out there in Mac land?
They're finally building a liquid cooled engine, so maybe Harleys will get somewhat modern too?
..jet - get stuffed.
..thats what ill do.
..thanx for the info.
<strong>mr. bill data, you're talking about a machine with 2GB of RAM from apple installed. two burners (one a dvd burner) and a ton of other crap.
the high end system is $3,300, not $5,000
drop that custom system to 512MB of RAM and the price goes from $5,000 to $3,800. i bet you can find the chips for less than $400 each elsewhere.
please use somewhat intelligent numbers for your comparisons.....
[ 08-16-2002: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well I wouldn't buy a Lexus with only an AM radio and I wouldn't buy a Mac with less than the best features either.
$4999 is Apples price and that is what I am paying for their State-of-the-art System.
I still think that the cost of all of their new systems could be a lot cheaper if the HW wasn't subsidizing so much of the Jaguar OS X R&D.
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: MrBillData ]</p>
-M
[quote]Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>
Besides, anyone can ride a Honda or Suzuki. When I see someone driving a Harley, I go "okay, he's serious about his hobby...he doesn't mess around".