The new Harley model has this habit of shutting off the engine during running. I think there has been a recall or a 'suggested fix' for it.
Quality...hah.
-M
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>I've never ridden a Harley, but supposedly they've gotten a whole lot better in the last few years. I dunno if magazines are paid to write advertorial. Harley sells something like 50% of all US bikes, so I'd want their ad money!
Anyway, apparently they don't break anymore and lots of them have many many thousands of miles under them. Supposedly they just run for miles and miles now. That still doesn't stop them from being rolling replicas of WW2 technology, but if they figured out how to make 'em last, hey that's cool.
Any Harley riders out there in Mac land?
They're finally building a liquid cooled engine, so maybe Harleys will get somewhat modern too?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well I wouldn't buy a Lexus with only an AM radio and I wouldn't buy a Mac with less than the best features either.
$4999 is Apples price and that is what I am paying for their State-of-the-art System.</strong><hr></blockquote>
His point was that you are not comparing apples to apples. If you wouldn't buy a Mac with less than the best features then can we assume the same is true for PCs? Go to Dell's web site and configure the best PC you possibly can. How much money would you like to bet right now that the Dell will be more expensive than the Mac?
That's the point. You're saying the Mac is more expensive... while comparing it to PCs that don't have the same features. Bring the feature set up to par and see what happens.
His point was that you are not comparing apples to apples. If you wouldn't buy a Mac with less than the best features then can we assume the same is true for PCs? Go to Dell's web site and configure the best PC you possibly can. How much money would you like to bet right now that the Dell will be more expensive than the Mac?
That's the point. You're saying the Mac is more expensive... while comparing it to PCs that don't have the same features. Bring the feature set up to par and see what happens.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who the Hell wants to compare Apples to PCs.
The thread is "how on earth can apple justify its outrageous prices?", NOT "why are PCs cheaper". Comparing Apples to PCs is a stupid comparison and does not address the threads topic anyway.
Can I get that to go... The Ultimate Powerbook G? (Nicknamed the Dana). <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
dudes, the initial investment on an apple is more expensive true. But look at you get when you get a bottom line PC, a 1000$ solitaire machine....Wow what a great deal....
Apples have a lot longer product lifeline, way less downtime, and downtime costs YOU money when its for business. To get a comparible PC with software to edit digital video, organize and adjust digital photos, a built in web server, easy to config networking system, that really doesn't need a virus scanning would cost you around 4-5000$ when you buy a mac you get appleworks, Itunes, Iphoto, Imovie, free developer CD(that one windows is about 1000) and plenty more.
Add up the differences.. you'll soon find the Macs are considerably a better deal.
I did not read this entire thread, but that price is way too high for that machine. You must be at the wrong store, because they should be much cheaper than the prices you listed.
Some people can never admit that they have been barking up the wrong tree. In fact when they have been barking that same tree for years and years, it becomes even harder to admit how wrong you realy are. Add that to the fact Many Corporate IT Heads have wasted Billions on PC's.
"Geesh Boss we really screwed the pootch on our network! We shoulda gone with Apple!"
Not bloody likely.
PC Geeks have the same one note to sing over and over. It's all about Ghz!
OK I give in! I am switching to a Dull! I give up!
Apple will never push past 1.25 Ghz. No one will use OS X cause it's too expensive. Who wants a box on a desktop or your LAP for that matter, that looks good anyway?
No one needs UNIX for petes sake!
Apples pathic atempt at a Enterpise Server the Xserve. I mean come on now! Who the hell wants seamless intargration of the network?
Can't keep my job if there are no problems!
Besides I mean 1 ghz? too slow, too slow. too slow.
I mean so what if PCs can't read Mac files? Yet I know I can read PC files on a Mac? Yea even run PC Apps as well? Oh emmmm only 1 ghz. Too slow, too slow.
I know if we switched to Apple for our network, the cost of operation would plumit. I mean we'd have to let a lot of techs go! Besides the License agreement is better than MS too, oh and the hardware won't go down as often, less work , oh but they only run at 1Gzh, too slow, too slow.
"Hey boss! look at the front end cost of going APPLE! It's way out of line! We can get the Dulls much cheaper, besides I mean 1Gzh? Apple is still in the Dark Ages, and want more money as well!"
All the while holding the DIRT FLIPPING CHEAP back end costs, behind my back!
Any one who chooses Apple Mac is a complete FOOL! I can no longer suffer under the opressive Apple Gzh limit! Too slow, too slow!
All things taken into concidertion I was wrong when I bought my Mac, I've been wrong Pushing Mac's on my freinds and family. I was barking up a wrong tree all these years, trouble free and inexpensive those years have been, I realize NOW what I never did before! It's not about price or software or Plug and Play, or how pretty the box is. It,s not about Network security, its not important that the machine works at all! It's about how fast it does nothing that really matters. Mac users Repent! See the errors in your way! You are a suborne bunch, stiff necked and have blinders on! You are foolish for choosing such a Fine Machine, even Stupid perchance. you don't need a nice smooth user experiance, you don't help the PC world one whit! you infact hinder the Progress of a Intell PC! If it wernt for the likes of APPLE, Dull and MS could have had a hell of a product. But no you keep upping the anti, new techonolgy, new Ideas, Way Easy use, and oh yea the hardware works when it should! Damn APPLE ANYWAY!!
How is that for 20 years I could not see the light?
I repent, I was wrong, Apple sucks, Mac sucks, cause well you know it runs at 1 Ghz! Way too slow, too slow!
This question is so old, it makes me sick. Use this as an example, PLEASE.
Take, for example, two high end sports cars of the day. A BMW M3 vs. a Ford Mustang Cobra. Both are extremely fast cars. Lets take a look at the specs.
BMW M3 - 3.2 liter / In-line 6 cylinder / 333hp
You get all that along with a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds for a base price of $45,000
Mustang Cobra - 4.6 liter / 8 cylinder / 390hp
Seemingly more power gives you a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds for a base price of $30,000
Well, the Ford seems like the better deal, correct? Hell no. If anyone in the world drove both of those cars it would take a matter of seconds to realize why the BMW takes on a premium of $15,000. And to put it frankly, the BMW is worth every penny over that piece of crap Mustang. Efficiency, longevity, quality, easy of use, and styling, are all just a few of the advantages you pay for.
Now, despite all the lame responses I know I'm going to get, the case is exactly the same in regards to Macs vs. Pcs. Plain and simple. Macs are the better computer, hands down. Sure, there may be cheaper computers that can compete in benchmark tests, but that's just what they are...cheaper computers, and although they may try; they just don't even compare to Macs in any way, shape, or form.
you can wait untill you can aford a new Mac preinstalled with OS X.
you can keep using older Vrs of OS X
You can go Linux
or UNIX
My Ex-wife will never go to OS X unless I give her This Machine Im using! She does not NEED OS X or a New Mac, may never need a new Mac.
Apple has some shortcommings for sure.
But nothing that is so out of hand it can't be fixed or updated.
Macs do tend to LIVE too long. Apple has to keep new stuff comming out, since the Machine you buy today could last you 10 years or more! I have a few IIci's and a 950 still working like old Macs Nota Problem.
So new OS's and hardware are the only thing that makes a Mac Obsolete, So either you sit with what you have or Upgrade or go to MS and Intell. It's not that hard to figure what to do.
Why is it so damn important to you to have the lastest and greatest? Are you a Power User, Write code for a living? Or just want it for Chest Beating rights?
If it's Chest Beating then I suggest you wait a year by then Apple will have what ever you want, when ever you want it, Oh and it will be free as well.
<strong>My question is, why do Macs last forever when PCs fall apart after three years? They use nearly the same god dam parts! How does Apple pull it off? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Well I would like to think it's quality.
But if you watch a PC user, you will see that a PC takes a lot more abuse from its user because of the BS they have to deal with running M$.
I know that no day has gone by that I didn't kick the PC in my office for one reason or another. Sometimes I kick it just because it is a PC.
Well since people like vehicle analogies.
Apple only has a showroom with a BMW X5, a Mercedes ML55, and a Lexus LX470 when a full featured GMC Yukon with a hitch is all I need.
Apple should sell OS X for $60 and all of the Jaguar luxury stuff for $60 bucks. I would only buy the OS and be a much happier Mac user.
Apple only has a showroom with a BMW X5, a Mercedes ML55, and a Lexus LX470 when a full featured GMC Yukon with a hitch is all I need.
Apple should sell OS X for $60 and all of the Jaguar luxury stuff for $60 bucks. I would only buy the OS and be a much happier Mac user.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It doesn't work that way man. You can't get an X5 without back seats or airbags just because you don't want them. The package is sold as just that, a package. Unfortunately, the only other option in this case is a Wintel PC. I'd stop my complaining and spend the extra money for the whole package; back seats and all, even if I "don't need them."
The thread is "how on earth can apple justify its outrageous prices?", NOT "why are PCs cheaper". Comparing Apples to PCs is a stupid comparison and does not address the threads topic anyway.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ah, you missed the point, grasshopper. If the question is how can Apple justify its outrageous prices, then determining what is outrageous certainly falls under the topic heading, doesn't it?
You say Apple's prices are outrageous, I say that's because Apple gives you more features from the start. When you configure a Dell with the features the Mac has, it too becomes outrageously priced. See where I'm going with this?
In case you didn't get all that I'll phrase it differently: If you consider Apple's prices to be outrageous, what exactly are you comparing it to? A Dell PC that has half the features maybe? Feature parity is where you'll see where the pricing comes from.
True, but many people can't look past megahertz. :rolleye:
All they see is "2GHz DELL PC: $1000" and "Dual 867MHz G4: $1700."
However the DELL won't burn CDs. It can't play DVDs. It has a small hard drive, lacks dual display support, has no FireWire, has no Ethernet ( <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> ), comes with a crummy OS, has a crappy case. Heck, the only thing the DELL has going for it is the free monitor, though I wouldn't really want a cheap 17" CRT myself.
Comments
<strong>I can't believe you are all bothering to respond to a 13 y.o. English wanker with nothing better to do than eat fish and chips and TROLL away.
I don't know who the git is, the troll, or the troll-feeders.
Jet</strong><hr></blockquote>
..try and act like an adult or at least something vaguely approaching one.. LOL
Quality...hah.
-M
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>I've never ridden a Harley, but supposedly they've gotten a whole lot better in the last few years. I dunno if magazines are paid to write advertorial. Harley sells something like 50% of all US bikes, so I'd want their ad money!
Anyway, apparently they don't break anymore and lots of them have many many thousands of miles under them. Supposedly they just run for miles and miles now. That still doesn't stop them from being rolling replicas of WW2 technology, but if they figured out how to make 'em last, hey that's cool.
Any Harley riders out there in Mac land?
They're finally building a liquid cooled engine, so maybe Harleys will get somewhat modern too?</strong><hr></blockquote>
..then again , maybe they're having to do this to actually buy time due to motorola's gross incompetence in the first bloomin' place....
<strong>
Well I wouldn't buy a Lexus with only an AM radio and I wouldn't buy a Mac with less than the best features either.
$4999 is Apples price and that is what I am paying for their State-of-the-art System.</strong><hr></blockquote>
His point was that you are not comparing apples to apples. If you wouldn't buy a Mac with less than the best features then can we assume the same is true for PCs? Go to Dell's web site and configure the best PC you possibly can. How much money would you like to bet right now that the Dell will be more expensive than the Mac?
That's the point. You're saying the Mac is more expensive... while comparing it to PCs that don't have the same features. Bring the feature set up to par and see what happens.
<strong>
His point was that you are not comparing apples to apples. If you wouldn't buy a Mac with less than the best features then can we assume the same is true for PCs? Go to Dell's web site and configure the best PC you possibly can. How much money would you like to bet right now that the Dell will be more expensive than the Mac?
That's the point. You're saying the Mac is more expensive... while comparing it to PCs that don't have the same features. Bring the feature set up to par and see what happens.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who the Hell wants to compare Apples to PCs.
The thread is "how on earth can apple justify its outrageous prices?", NOT "why are PCs cheaper". Comparing Apples to PCs is a stupid comparison and does not address the threads topic anyway.
<strong>
Coutesy of <a href="http://www.danamania.com/"; target="_blank">dana</a>
Enough said.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Can I get that to go... The Ultimate Powerbook G? (Nicknamed the Dana).
[ 08-19-2002: Message edited by: MrBillData ]</p>
Apples have a lot longer product lifeline, way less downtime, and downtime costs YOU money when its for business. To get a comparible PC with software to edit digital video, organize and adjust digital photos, a built in web server, easy to config networking system, that really doesn't need a virus scanning would cost you around 4-5000$ when you buy a mac you get appleworks, Itunes, Iphoto, Imovie, free developer CD(that one windows is about 1000) and plenty more.
Add up the differences.. you'll soon find the Macs are considerably a better deal.
..i have radically re-considered my original preconceptions
..pcs look cheaper - but thats because they sell 'cut to the bone' systems..
..macs still have EVERYTHING built in.
..macs still rool .
and so do i..
"Geesh Boss we really screwed the pootch on our network! We shoulda gone with Apple!"
Not bloody likely.
PC Geeks have the same one note to sing over and over. It's all about Ghz!
OK I give in! I am switching to a Dull! I give up!
Apple will never push past 1.25 Ghz. No one will use OS X cause it's too expensive. Who wants a box on a desktop or your LAP for that matter, that looks good anyway?
No one needs UNIX for petes sake!
Apples pathic atempt at a Enterpise Server the Xserve. I mean come on now! Who the hell wants seamless intargration of the network?
Can't keep my job if there are no problems!
Besides I mean 1 ghz? too slow, too slow. too slow.
I mean so what if PCs can't read Mac files? Yet I know I can read PC files on a Mac? Yea even run PC Apps as well? Oh emmmm only 1 ghz. Too slow, too slow.
I know if we switched to Apple for our network, the cost of operation would plumit. I mean we'd have to let a lot of techs go! Besides the License agreement is better than MS too, oh and the hardware won't go down as often, less work , oh but they only run at 1Gzh, too slow, too slow.
"Hey boss! look at the front end cost of going APPLE! It's way out of line! We can get the Dulls much cheaper, besides I mean 1Gzh? Apple is still in the Dark Ages, and want more money as well!"
All the while holding the DIRT FLIPPING CHEAP back end costs, behind my back!
Any one who chooses Apple Mac is a complete FOOL! I can no longer suffer under the opressive Apple Gzh limit! Too slow, too slow!
All things taken into concidertion I was wrong when I bought my Mac, I've been wrong Pushing Mac's on my freinds and family. I was barking up a wrong tree all these years, trouble free and inexpensive those years have been, I realize NOW what I never did before! It's not about price or software or Plug and Play, or how pretty the box is. It,s not about Network security, its not important that the machine works at all! It's about how fast it does nothing that really matters. Mac users Repent! See the errors in your way! You are a suborne bunch, stiff necked and have blinders on! You are foolish for choosing such a Fine Machine, even Stupid perchance. you don't need a nice smooth user experiance, you don't help the PC world one whit! you infact hinder the Progress of a Intell PC! If it wernt for the likes of APPLE, Dull and MS could have had a hell of a product. But no you keep upping the anti, new techonolgy, new Ideas, Way Easy use, and oh yea the hardware works when it should! Damn APPLE ANYWAY!!
How is that for 20 years I could not see the light?
I repent, I was wrong, Apple sucks, Mac sucks, cause well you know it runs at 1 Ghz! Way too slow, too slow!
Take, for example, two high end sports cars of the day. A BMW M3 vs. a Ford Mustang Cobra. Both are extremely fast cars. Lets take a look at the specs.
BMW M3 - 3.2 liter / In-line 6 cylinder / 333hp
You get all that along with a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds for a base price of $45,000
Mustang Cobra - 4.6 liter / 8 cylinder / 390hp
Seemingly more power gives you a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds for a base price of $30,000
Well, the Ford seems like the better deal, correct? Hell no. If anyone in the world drove both of those cars it would take a matter of seconds to realize why the BMW takes on a premium of $15,000. And to put it frankly, the BMW is worth every penny over that piece of crap Mustang. Efficiency, longevity, quality, easy of use, and styling, are all just a few of the advantages you pay for.
Now, despite all the lame responses I know I'm going to get, the case is exactly the same in regards to Macs vs. Pcs. Plain and simple. Macs are the better computer, hands down. Sure, there may be cheaper computers that can compete in benchmark tests, but that's just what they are...cheaper computers, and although they may try; they just don't even compare to Macs in any way, shape, or form.
hell, apple dont even support the cpu upgrades...
so what do we do?
pleez enlighten moi.
so what do we do?
pleez enlighten moi.[/QB][/QUOTE]
Nothing
You can use OS 9 forever if you want
or Windows
you can wait untill you can aford a new Mac preinstalled with OS X.
you can keep using older Vrs of OS X
You can go Linux
or UNIX
My Ex-wife will never go to OS X unless I give her This Machine Im using! She does not NEED OS X or a New Mac, may never need a new Mac.
Apple has some shortcommings for sure.
But nothing that is so out of hand it can't be fixed or updated.
Macs do tend to LIVE too long. Apple has to keep new stuff comming out, since the Machine you buy today could last you 10 years or more! I have a few IIci's and a 950 still working like old Macs Nota Problem.
So new OS's and hardware are the only thing that makes a Mac Obsolete, So either you sit with what you have or Upgrade or go to MS and Intell. It's not that hard to figure what to do.
Why is it so damn important to you to have the lastest and greatest? Are you a Power User, Write code for a living? Or just want it for Chest Beating rights?
If it's Chest Beating then I suggest you wait a year by then Apple will have what ever you want, when ever you want it, Oh and it will be free as well.
<strong>
Coutesy of <a href="http://www.danamania.com/"; target="_blank">dana</a>
</strong><hr></blockquote>WHAT?! No Zip drive?!
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>...Starmax's. Ick....</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have one and although they aren't the best looking, they were in their day, amazing machines. My starmax 4000/200 was a mad player back in its day!
2.5GB HD
32MB RAM
604e
...not sure of the bus (that was a limiting factor)
2mb of video memory
(3) 5" drive bays (one with 8x cdrom)
(4 i belive) 3" drive bays
I use a QS now but does anyone have any information about overclocking the 4000/200?
<strong>My question is, why do Macs last forever when PCs fall apart after three years? They use nearly the same god dam parts! How does Apple pull it off?
Well I would like to think it's quality.
But if you watch a PC user, you will see that a PC takes a lot more abuse from its user because of the BS they have to deal with running M$.
I know that no day has gone by that I didn't kick the PC in my office for one reason or another. Sometimes I kick it just because it is a PC.
Well since people like vehicle analogies.
Apple only has a showroom with a BMW X5, a Mercedes ML55, and a Lexus LX470 when a full featured GMC Yukon with a hitch is all I need.
Apple should sell OS X for $60 and all of the Jaguar luxury stuff for $60 bucks. I would only buy the OS and be a much happier Mac user.
<strong>
Apple only has a showroom with a BMW X5, a Mercedes ML55, and a Lexus LX470 when a full featured GMC Yukon with a hitch is all I need.
Apple should sell OS X for $60 and all of the Jaguar luxury stuff for $60 bucks. I would only buy the OS and be a much happier Mac user.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It doesn't work that way man. You can't get an X5 without back seats or airbags just because you don't want them. The package is sold as just that, a package. Unfortunately, the only other option in this case is a Wintel PC. I'd stop my complaining and spend the extra money for the whole package; back seats and all, even if I "don't need them."
<strong>
Who the Hell wants to compare Apples to PCs.
The thread is "how on earth can apple justify its outrageous prices?", NOT "why are PCs cheaper". Comparing Apples to PCs is a stupid comparison and does not address the threads topic anyway.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ah, you missed the point, grasshopper. If the question is how can Apple justify its outrageous prices, then determining what is outrageous certainly falls under the topic heading, doesn't it?
You say Apple's prices are outrageous, I say that's because Apple gives you more features from the start. When you configure a Dell with the features the Mac has, it too becomes outrageously priced. See where I'm going with this?
In case you didn't get all that I'll phrase it differently: If you consider Apple's prices to be outrageous, what exactly are you comparing it to? A Dell PC that has half the features maybe? Feature parity is where you'll see where the pricing comes from.
But please don't take my word for it - <a href="http://www.dell.com"; target="_blank">http://www.dell.com</a>. Have fun.
All they see is "2GHz DELL PC: $1000" and "Dual 867MHz G4: $1700."
However the DELL won't burn CDs. It can't play DVDs. It has a small hard drive, lacks dual display support, has no FireWire, has no Ethernet ( <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> ), comes with a crummy OS, has a crappy case. Heck, the only thing the DELL has going for it is the free monitor, though I wouldn't really want a cheap 17" CRT myself.