[OT] OT-Lock

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
Quote:

Originally posted by DaveGee





Oh and finally, people officially need ONE (legal) copy of OS X for each computer they install it on. If you own 3 then you really should buy 3 copies of the OS even if (at present) you're not blocked from doing more than one install (like you are with Windows).







Acctually most software allows two installs, a desktop and a portable, but if you install it on 2 desktops or 2 portables, I dont think anyone would be pounding down your door...

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    here's a news flash for anyone else who feels the same way... Stealing is stealing, be it from a scum of the earth drug lords estate or a nuns convent and exactly who the F are you to dictate from on high who we can or should steal from and whom we shouldn't?







    True, but casual piracy, while still wrong, is not theft; Adobe looses no physical property, or intelectual property when someone bootlegs Photoshop for their private use* A lot of folks make a critical logic flaw in this argument, saying that every bootleg copy is a lost sale; most casual pirates are kids who cant afford Photoshop, Windows, CAD apps, Video apps, or whatever; but when they do get older and get money, they are already hooked on Photoshop, so they would ignore PSP, Gimp and the like and just buy what they know...It isnt good, but in a way one could make an argument that it drives future sales.



    *this comment excludes piracy for commercial enrerprises; That is a differant discussion.
  • Reply 2 of 20
    brendonbrendon Posts: 642member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    Oh give me a freakin break with this.... I had no idea JYD was a little more than a common thief. How very sad. Oh and here's a news flash for anyone else who feels the same way... Stealing is stealing, be it from a scum of the earth drug lords estate or a nuns convent and exactly who the F are you to dictate from on high who we can or should steal from and whom we shouldn't?



    I'm with ya' right on



    Quote:

    See while you have a thing against 'mega corporations' I happen to have one against cry-baby liberals so my rules would be steel from the libs and leave the real americans alone.



    You lost me, what?



    Quote:

    Oh and my brother can't stand those cranky little starving developers, maybe it's cause his girlfriend cheated on him with one and he never got over it, I dunno... But, the short of it is now he just loves mega-software-corps and his steeling credo is quite simple.... Put those upstart developers out business now, before it's too late.



    I think your missing your Meds, my friend. Let's reel this one in.



    Quote:

    In short and without the comic examples... Who the freak are you to dictate to ANYONE as to when, where and from who it's okay to steal from?



    Dave



    Meds... Bail..., you started with a point and ended up with a cry for either to remember to take your Meds, or to ask for larger doses. So how you feeling? Little stressed? Sorry to hear about your brother, but things happen and he will get over it. My advice is tell your doctor about your brother, and those liberals, maybe they can prescribe something to help ease the pain.
  • Reply 3 of 20
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by a_greer

    True, but casual piracy, while still wrong, is not theft



    It is.



    Quote:

    A lot of folks make a critical logic flaw in this argument



    Yes, you just did.



    Quote:

    saying that every bootleg copy is a lost sale; most casual pirates are kids who cant afford Photoshop, Windows, CAD apps, Video apps, or whatever; but when they do get older and get money, they are already hooked on Photoshop, so they would ignore PSP, Gimp and the like and just buy what they know...It isnt good, but in a way one could make an argument that it drives future sales.



    Most casual car thieves are kids who can't afford a Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini, coupés, cabriolets, or whatever; but when they do get older and get money, they are already hooked on Porsche, so they would ignore Volkswagen, Fiat and the like and just buy what they know...It isnt good, but in a way one could make an argument that it drives future sales.



    Which, yes, it does. But it's still theft.
  • Reply 4 of 20
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    See while you have a thing against 'mega corporations' I happen to have one against cry-baby liberals so my rules would be steel from the libs and leave the real americans alone.



    Where the fuck did American wannabe politics come in?
  • Reply 5 of 20
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    So basically, intellectual property issues only exist for "cry-baby liberals".



    Glad we cleared that up. Ignored.
  • Reply 6 of 20
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Chucker



    Most casual car thieves are kids who can't afford a Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini, coupés, cabriolets, or whatever; but when they do get older and get money, they are already hooked on Porsche, so they would ignore Volkswagen, Fiat and the like and just buy what they know...It isnt good, but in a way one could make an argument that it drives future sales.



    Which, yes, it does. But it's still theft.




    From Websters dictionary
    Quote:

    Main Entry: theft

    Function: noun

    ...

    1 a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it



    From Wikipedia:

    Quote:

    Copyright infringement is the unauthorized use of copyrighted material in a manner that violates one of the copyright owner's exclusive rights



    Theft is the taking of physical property, causing harm to the person by depriving them of a material posession: Small scale software piracy is a CIVIL offence, it is copyright infringement; using something you dont have the right to use, no differant than using a song in a TV show and not paying the royalty fee.



    Is it wrong or imoral to pirate software? YES.

    Is it "theft"? No
  • Reply 7 of 20
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member




    No, intellectual property cannot be stolen in the traditional sense of the word, but in modern use of it, yes, it can.



    In data theft, for example, the company data is stolen from usually retains that data ? the trouble is that someone else gets it.
  • Reply 8 of 20
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MrSin



    ★ Rush Limbaugh has left the building.




    Did security confiscate his blue pills?
  • Reply 9 of 20
    mrsinmrsin Posts: 163member
    Now boys - please locate, download and install 'play nice with one another' patch - please disable any hacks, 3rd party tweaks, what have you before applying patch - restart on completion may or may not be required .



    This has been a "free" public service announcement...
  • Reply 10 of 20
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    This thread is in need of a lock: the original question has been answered and what started as an interesting debate is quickly degrading into a flame-war.
  • Reply 11 of 20
    user23user23 Posts: 199member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    Second are you really nuts enough to rationalize that obeying the law is in direct proportion to the effect it has one the person? Please don't tell me you're really saying that cause I can come up with some pretty graphic examples where your wonderful theory would be shot down in flames please don't make me type them....



    Dave




    I have a graphic example of how some people were "nuts enough to rationalize that obeying the law is in direct proportion to the effect it has (sic) one the person..."



    it's called the Boston Tea Party



  • Reply 12 of 20
    brendonbrendon Posts: 642member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    Yea its quite clear the usage of 'libs' has fogged my issue (I shoulda known).



    My points were simple.



    1. Stealing is against the law and wrong.



    2. Turning around and then saying but its okay to do it do 'just a certain group' (be the group mega-corps or developers or libs or green eyed, blond haired oriental woman) is just plain wrong.



    3. I then went on to try and say that not only is it wrong (singling out a specific group) where it was okay to break the law but even if the author refused to agree with me on that point, who was he to dictate what groups we could wrong and what groups we couldn't.



    I've dumbed this down as best I could... Hope it helps.



    Dave




    Yo just having some fun with your rant. No hard feelings.
  • Reply 13 of 20
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,737member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    simply diluting yourself



    Deluding, presumably?





    Whilst I agree with most of your sentiments when it comes to piracy, I find it interesting that you find it easy to make it a black and white issue. There are a couple of things that are unclear to me:



    1.) Do you think that it is always wrong to break the law?



    2.) You state that "Turning around and then saying but its okay to do it do 'just a certain group' (be the group mega-corps or developers or libs or green eyed, blond haired oriental woman) is just plain wrong". Does this include corporations who themselves have repeatedly broken the law for many, many years in order to preserve their monopoly and abuse that monopoly power in order to create new monopolies, such that if you want a certain product or service, you have no choice but to buy theirs? (as all their competitors have been driven out of business due to the law being broken and monopolies abused rather than due to the product/service being superior).



    For an exploration of the intricacies of the morality of piracy, take a look at this thread
  • Reply 14 of 20
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. H

    I find it interesting that you find it easy to make it a black and white issue.



    1.) Do you think that it is always wrong to break the law?





    Without going back to rehash everything I never spoke about how *I* think about the issue. I was merely stating the fact that pirating software *IS* against the law. I may have shown my surprise and disappointment WRT the number of people who either don't believe that it was (against the law) and/or the the way so many people blatantly showed they didn't care and offered it as a legitimate and publicly recommendable solution to getting the new OS (or any software).



    From my point of view the issue of "Is piracy is illegal?" really is a black and white one. The legitimacy of the law has never been discussed by me.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. H

    2.) You state that "Turning around and then saying but its okay to do it do 'just a certain group' (be the group mega-corps or developers or libs or green eyed, blond haired oriental woman) is just plain wrong". Does this include corporations who themselves have repeatedly broken the law for many, many years in order to preserve their monopoly and abuse that monopoly power in order to create new monopolies, such that if you want a certain product or service, you have no choice but to buy theirs? (as all their competitors have been driven out of business due to the law being broken and monopolies abused rather than due to the product/service being superior).





    I don't think point isn't the same... What I'm talking about is if something is legal or illegal what happens to someone or some company that break a law it going away from the main point (Piracy is illegal).



    Some here have suggested is the following:



    - You shouldn't pirate against small developers but pirating against mega-corporations is fine.



    In all other cases we'd call this prejudicial treatment. Imagine if our other laws were written in the same manner.



    Disclaimer: Comic examples ahead that I in no way condone nor support.



    - You shouldn't beat up an old woman but beating up a old grumpy man is fine.

    - You shouldn't spit on a child with blond hair but spitting on child with red hair is fine.

    - You shouldn't kick dogs but kicking cats is fine.



    Wow not once did I use the terms lib or cry-baby... isn't everyone proud of me?



    Anyway, in this country (as in most I'd hope) laws shouldn't be written in a way to give undue favor or put undue stress on a specific group. The law should be as fair and equal as possible.



    Selective choosing when, how and under what circumstance to obey/break a law is up to the individual and if the individual can somehow rationalize that it's okay (but only when X condition is met) well that's up to them, but they should know that they're still choosing to break a law and have the balls enough to admit it.



    Now I'm sure people can run out and find badly written laws that do only protect a small group of people and leave the majority with no protection and if they do exist (and I have no doubt they do) I'd be the first to say those laws are wrong... But in this case we have a law (copyright) that doesn't play any favorites, it provides EQUAL protection to "MULTI-NATIONAL-SOFTWARE-MEGA-CORP LTD." as well as "SMALL-STARVING-DEV INC." and while some people here don't seem to see it, this is a GOOD THING.



    Dave
  • Reply 15 of 20
    brendonbrendon Posts: 642member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    Without going back to rehash everything I never spoke about how *I* think about the issue. I was merely stating the fact that pirating software *IS* against the law. I may have shown my surprise and disappointment WRT the number of people who either don't believe that it was (against the law) and/or the the way so many people blatantly showed they didn't care and offered it as a legitimate and publicly recommendable solution to getting the new OS (or any software).



    From my point of view the issue of "Is piracy is illegal?" really is a black and white one. The legitimacy of the law has never been discussed by me.







    I don't think point isn't the same... What I'm talking about is if something is legal or illegal what happens to someone or some company that break a law it going away from the main point (Piracy is illegal).



    Some here have suggested is the following:



    - You shouldn't pirate against small developers but pirating against mega-corporations is fine.



    In all other cases we'd call this prejudicial treatment. Imagine if our other laws were written in the same manner.



    Disclaimer: Comic examples ahead that I in no way condone nor support.



    - You shouldn't beat up an old woman but beating up a old grumpy man is fine.

    - You shouldn't spit on a child with blond hair but spitting on child with red hair is fine.

    - You shouldn't kick dogs but kicking cats is fine.



    Wow not once did I use the terms lib or cry-baby... isn't everyone proud of me?



    Anyway, in this country (as in most I'd hope) laws shouldn't be written in a way to give undue favor or put undue stress on a specific group. The law should be as fair and equal as possible.



    Selective choosing when, how and under what circumstance to obey/break a law is up to the individual and if the individual can somehow rationalize that it's okay (but only when X condition is met) well that's up to them, but they should know that they're still choosing to break a law and have the balls enough to admit it.



    Now I'm sure people can run out and find badly written laws that do only protect a small group of people and leave the majority with no protection and if they do exist (and I have no doubt they do) I'd be the first to say those laws are wrong... But in this case we have a law (copyright) that doesn't play any favorites, it provides EQUAL protection to "MULTI-NATIONAL-SOFTWARE-MEGA-CORP LTD." as well as "SMALL-STARVING-DEV INC." and while some people here don't seem to see it, this is a GOOD THING.



    Dave




    Maybe deluded, but Dave's point is on the mark, that of 'against the law'. What I walk away from his point is that it is, at the end of the day, against the law. Whether a person is fined, admonished, jailed ( admittedly rare, but that does not mean the jail time could be requested and then roll over to community service ), does not mean that they would get away scott free. Hiring a lawyer, and time away from work in court, is punishment for an otherwise lawful person. If you add up lawyer costs, court costs, fines, oh yes and their lawyer costs, if found guilty, and you have deterrent ++. Whether big corps get their money the illegal way, apparently is water under the bridge, because they are clever or even clever liars, some, from time to time ( Scott S. of Enron fame get caught and punished ). Businesses also have investigative reporters that can check up on them and report what they find to the world. However there is a higher order here, one of society, businesses can forget this as well as people. The society that we live in has said that curtain things are illegal. Police and prosecutors are hired to arrest or deal with those that break the law, as well as then judges, and even you and I as jurors. What it means at the end of the day is why each case is divided into two parts, guilt (and of what) or not, and then punishment to fit the crime (if any) and the impact it had on society. Hence this is why the name "Law and Order" is so fitting. So there are two things going on here, there is the black and white that a prosecutor would see, and the gray area that a jury or judge would see as punishment for the crime.
  • Reply 16 of 20
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    My Performa has a broken CD-Rom drive. Can I take it to an Apple store and get a new Mac Pro? iMac? Mini? Cup of coffee? Sympathy from store employees?
  • Reply 17 of 20
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Brendon

    Maybe deluded, but Dave's point is on the mark, that of 'against the law'. What I walk away from his point is that it is, at the end of the day, against the law. Whether a person is fined, admonished, jailed ( admittedly rare, but that does not mean the jail time could be requested and then roll over to community service ), does not mean that they would get away scott free.



    Thanks Brendon, I'm glad you see my point. The fact is that I'm 39 years old and dying of stage 4 cancer (no need to google, it's not a good thing) and maybe that's allowed me to look at things with more 'clinical eyes' than most...I dunno.... But in the end I feel we all need to step up to the plate and present ourselves and stand by our convictions no matter what they are. If I had been in this very same debate a year ago I would have likely come down quite differently. Today? well, today is today....



    The fact that I'm leaving my niece and nephew in such a morally bankrupt world is abhorrent and I''d (literally) kill to change it.... it's just too bad that I can't.



    Dave
  • Reply 18 of 20
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,737member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by DaveGee

    such a morally bankrupt world is abhorrent and I'd (literally) kill to change it



    Odd to find these two sentiments in the same sentence.



    It really does seem to me that you are equating breaking the law with being immoral. Yes, copyright infringement is against the law. No-one in this thread has denied that. But that doesn't in and of itself make piracy immoral.



    There are reasons why I think that piracy is unacceptable, but none of them have to do with the fact that it's illegal. To me the two issues are separate. e.g. Even if you were to think that piracy is acceptable behaviour, you would still have to accept that (in most countries) it is illegal and there would be legal consequences if you were caught.
  • Reply 19 of 20
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. H

    Yes, copyright infringement is against the law. No-one in this thread has denied that. But that doesn't in and of itself make piracy immoral.



    Due to my last chemo session, I'm too tired to really lay into you but in short (you prick) I've never pushed morals on anyone and I even went beyond the norm explaining that morals were subjective and didn't count in my argument.



    The fact is some of these freaks have bent over backwards defending the action of piracy (breaking the law) and one even compared it to the Boston Freakin' Tea Party.



    I'm done... goodbye to the AI forums (I know of plenty others where people are more level headed) you'll never have to hear from me ever again. Please delete my account and erase my messages as you see fit.



    Fuck off in the life you have ahead.



    Dave
  • Reply 20 of 20
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by backtomac

    My Performa has a broken CD-Rom drive. Can I take it to an Apple store and get ... Sympathy from store employees?



    something like "awww this poor bastard has been too broke to upgrade since '94...back when the hardware sucked and the OS sucked harder!"



    (ducks)
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