Right! I mean you're right. They do need competition. Look at how slow they've gotten this year.
Exactly. I don't want Apple to show signs of overconfidence, let alone arrogance. Healthy competition is always good; Apple is not exempt from that rule.
The article says by Christmas, but which Christmas. We know what Microsoft are like for being over optimistic about release dates.
What about product testing doesn't sound like much time available for that.
4/5 Months to create an iTMS rival of the same quality and content plus engineer a WiFi device probably using WIN CE that looks as good as an ipod and doesn't breach any Apple patents.
Marketing, distribution, high volume production to meet demand..whats the present stage..they have a prototype that they have been "touting to record companies"
Sorry if this thing gets on the market by Christmas its going to be a dogs dinner.
What ever they bring to market Apple can do it better, with more style and flair.
Is there much point in anyone trying to compete with the iPod as a music player given that the chances are the iPod will soon evolve in to a combined music player & mobile phone? The battle for market share is then with Moto, Nokia etc.
If MS can compete with the Playstation, it will also be able to compete with the iPod, given enough time and money poured into it. I think MS really hate to see the success of Apple in the portable music/digital applicance area.
One major difference between the failed Sony ecosystem and Microsoft is the already existing OS ecosystem called Windows. And, I should add, one much bigger and more far-reaching than the one Apple had when they introduced the iPod.
I also disagree that Apple has been innovative with the iPod. The first iPod wasn't that unique, only really adding the HD to the mp3 player. The iTunes+iTMS+iPod ecosystem WAS innovative and grew even stronger with the availability of tons of accessories. I would dare to say that the iPod has been very slow in the innovative department, when compared to what exists on the market today.
Apple has been milking the iPod heavily the last few years and they need some serious competition!
Folks, the iPod IS Apple at this point. This could be bad. I bet the stock is going to take a beating today, in the face. Which is good, because I'll buy because I have The Faith?. Apple better stop being STUPID and integrate goddamn PDA functionality and/or (same model? separate model?) phone functionality in to iPods, along with a widescreen and better input. And a mic. Or there will be trouble in paradise.
I don't want Apple to show signs of overconfidence, let alone arrogance.
Do you know anything about Apple? For goodness sake, Apple has been overconfident and arrogant since the time of the Apple II! New competition will not take that away from them. And I would hope it doesn't. For it is that same arrogant attitude which has separated Apple from everyone else.
Another problem with the download right to your DAP model is the cost. Anyone tried to download a song to their cell phone. I tried it one day and it cost nearly $7.00CDN. NO THANKS.
I would dare to say that the iPod has been very slow in the innovative department, when compared to what exists on the market today.
IMHO, that is one of the iPod's strengths. It's not bogged down with features, and buttons to control them, and lots of menus and sub-menus to configure them. It does a few things and does them easily, with style, and quality.
It will be very interesting to see how this whole Nike pedometer thing works out. That's a pretty innovative accesory and points in the direction of the iPod becoming a mobile accesory hub of sorts - GPS, heart monitor, mass photo storage, who knows what Apple has cooking in their labs.
I'm a firm believer that Apple has all kinds of crazy feature laden iPod-like devices in their labs, but they dole out the features as they feel the market/consumers are ready for them.
2 friends of mine who both owned DELL MP3 players recently switched to iPods.
I had been telling them for years why the iPod was better.
They are both Windows users and now they love Apple.
So many people have had horrible experiences using the Windows Media based MP3 players and have subsequently switched to Apple.
I think M$ is going to have a very tough sell.
I also agree that it sounds like Verizon's Vcast service which is dead in the water.
MS is always late. There first iteration of any product always sucks. They persist and make improvements. They make it 'good enough' as Melgross puts it and often dominate a market. I'm not saying this will happen with the mp3 market but I would wait and see the product before I declare it dead in the water.
I would dare to say that the iPod has been very slow in the innovative department, when compared to what exists on the market today.
Apple has been milking the iPod heavily the last few years and they need some serious competition!
I agree that competition will be good for Apple. They learned a lot from the "clone wars" in the 80's, and I think they'll fare better in this battle. We have seen that a head start may not mean much, though...
I also agree that Apple has been "slow" in innovation, but I think it's been deliberate. "Innovative" doesn't always mean "better." Apple's taking it slow and doing it right. I think the time has come for the iPhone and the PDA-Pod, but I'd hardly call that innovation - it's simply the next logical step.
That's the beauty of Apple, though. They don't just throw millions at some product and release it 4-6 months later (as Microsoft and other PC-based companies often do). Apple takes time and carefully designs and plans their products.
That is why Apple will always have better, more consumer-friendly products, even if it goes against our "instant gratification" culture.
The whole idea that finding a song is hard on a small player is a no go. Is it currently that hard to find a song on your iPod through the Browse feature? No, it's pretty darn easy. As long as the store allows you to scan through any number of layers, it should be fine. For instance, Genre -> Artist -> Album -> Song Name... seems pretty easy to me. And for really huge categories like "Artist", they may consider adding alphabetical subdivisions, so that you can jump right to the letter you're looking for, rather than scrolling through all artists in the alphabet. Sure, there won't be much space for advertising and glitter, but who cares?
As for organizing the songs... um, do you really need to organize on the iPod any more than you already can? You download it, it gets added to your iPod's library, and the next time you sync with your computer, it gets dropped into your computer's library. At which point you can organize as you see fit. All the album art and tags will already be in place because the store has them all set up for you... it's not like the mishmash of tags you find on P2P networks. If the tags aren't exactly how you like them, oh well. Wait until you get home before you tweak them.
And songs won't cost a bunch to buy. Assuming this is a WiFi player rather than a cellular player, it'll connect FOR FREE to whatever WiFi hotspot you're in. No bandwidth surcharges.
Is this useful? If it's just a mobile store, then only marginally. But if there's a Pandora-like feature, where you can listen to customized, streamed radio stations that constantly introduce you to new music, then yes. Hear a new song that you love while you're on the go? Make one or two clicks and the song is downloading to your player, without having to wait until you get home. And while you're there, you might buy other songs by that artist (or the whole album), or do some more browsing. If they also included an "Add to Wishlist" feature rather than just "Buy Now", that would be even better.
So no, I don't think this is so outlandish or riddled with insurmountable barriers. I think that if it's done right, it could be very slick and remain very simple. Will MS do it right? I wouldn't bet on it. But I'd love to have an Apple-designed, Pandora-using, iTMS-integrated, WiFi iPod.
Exactly. I don't want Apple to show signs of overconfidence, let alone arrogance. Healthy competition is always good; Apple is not exempt from that rule.
I am not sure where you are coming from here... to me every Stevenote already includes major arrogance, and I love it.
Apple has not had any serious competition from the inception of the iPod on... They keep the product fresh because Steve and Jonathan Ive are obsessive compulsive perfectionists. They will be consumed by the desire to make the iPod even thinner, and more elegant with or without Microsoft entering the fold. Steve has already indicated that they are working on wireless options (for earbuds), but have not found the technology to do it properly yet. Apple is weary of taking certain leaps too quickly, particularly when they compromise elegance/simplicity. And as for downloading songs over the air or whatever... Steve thinks the PC is the center of it all, Microsoft's bumbling wont change that. There is no way searching for songs on a small music player could possibly be elegant, unless it operates by mind control.
What percentage do iPods have of the market? And what percentage of those iPod users shop the iTMS? A pretty big amount I'll bet.
The reasons this device will flop big time and not to be afraid.
#1 - We are talking about microsoft here, I mean... hello? Why is it that people think a company with a totally lousy reputation is always on the verge of making a fantastic turnaround? Don't expect a turnaround until AFTER they show some sign of changing.
#2 - As i was saying, iTMS dominates the music download market, the songs people are buying and continue to buy won't run on Microsoft's player.
#3 - It won't be as thin as the iPod because they'll be too obsessed with features and junk that nobody needs. (this is microsoft)
#4 - It won't have the "cool" factor. This is microsoft, they wouldn't know cool if it hit them in the face.
Comments
Originally posted by Chucker
Wrong.
Right! I mean you're right. They do need competition. Look at how slow they've gotten this year.
Originally posted by nathan22t
Right.
Wrong. Everyone needs competition.
Originally posted by akhomerun
so how do you charge it?
Er, plug it into the USB connector?
Originally posted by melgross
Right! I mean you're right. They do need competition. Look at how slow they've gotten this year.
Exactly. I don't want Apple to show signs of overconfidence, let alone arrogance. Healthy competition is always good; Apple is not exempt from that rule.
What about product testing doesn't sound like much time available for that.
4/5 Months to create an iTMS rival of the same quality and content plus engineer a WiFi device probably using WIN CE that looks as good as an ipod and doesn't breach any Apple patents.
Marketing, distribution, high volume production to meet demand..whats the present stage..they have a prototype that they have been "touting to record companies"
Sorry if this thing gets on the market by Christmas its going to be a dogs dinner.
What ever they bring to market Apple can do it better, with more style and flair.
One major difference between the failed Sony ecosystem and Microsoft is the already existing OS ecosystem called Windows. And, I should add, one much bigger and more far-reaching than the one Apple had when they introduced the iPod.
I also disagree that Apple has been innovative with the iPod. The first iPod wasn't that unique, only really adding the HD to the mp3 player. The iTunes+iTMS+iPod ecosystem WAS innovative and grew even stronger with the availability of tons of accessories. I would dare to say that the iPod has been very slow in the innovative department, when compared to what exists on the market today.
Apple has been milking the iPod heavily the last few years and they need some serious competition!
Originally posted by Chucker
I don't want Apple to show signs of overconfidence, let alone arrogance.
Do you know anything about Apple? For goodness sake, Apple has been overconfident and arrogant since the time of the Apple II! New competition will not take that away from them. And I would hope it doesn't. For it is that same arrogant attitude which has separated Apple from everyone else.
Originally posted by Token
I would dare to say that the iPod has been very slow in the innovative department, when compared to what exists on the market today.
IMHO, that is one of the iPod's strengths. It's not bogged down with features, and buttons to control them, and lots of menus and sub-menus to configure them. It does a few things and does them easily, with style, and quality.
It will be very interesting to see how this whole Nike pedometer thing works out. That's a pretty innovative accesory and points in the direction of the iPod becoming a mobile accesory hub of sorts - GPS, heart monitor, mass photo storage, who knows what Apple has cooking in their labs.
I'm a firm believer that Apple has all kinds of crazy feature laden iPod-like devices in their labs, but they dole out the features as they feel the market/consumers are ready for them.
- Jasen.
2 friends of mine who both owned DELL MP3 players recently switched to iPods.
I had been telling them for years why the iPod was better.
They are both Windows users and now they love Apple.
So many people have had horrible experiences using the Windows Media based MP3 players and have subsequently switched to Apple.
I think M$ is going to have a very tough sell.
I also agree that it sounds like Verizon's Vcast service which is dead in the water.
Originally posted by Johnny Mozzarella
M$ is unfortunately 4 years late to the dance.
2 friends of mine who both owned DELL MP3 players recently switched to iPods.
I had been telling them for years why the iPod was better.
They are both Windows users and now they love Apple.
So many people have had horrible experiences using the Windows Media based MP3 players and have subsequently switched to Apple.
I think M$ is going to have a very tough sell.
I also agree that it sounds like Verizon's Vcast service which is dead in the water.
MS is always late. There first iteration of any product always sucks. They persist and make improvements. They make it 'good enough' as Melgross puts it and often dominate a market. I'm not saying this will happen with the mp3 market but I would wait and see the product before I declare it dead in the water.
Originally posted by Token
I would dare to say that the iPod has been very slow in the innovative department, when compared to what exists on the market today.
Apple has been milking the iPod heavily the last few years and they need some serious competition!
I agree that competition will be good for Apple. They learned a lot from the "clone wars" in the 80's, and I think they'll fare better in this battle. We have seen that a head start may not mean much, though...
I also agree that Apple has been "slow" in innovation, but I think it's been deliberate. "Innovative" doesn't always mean "better." Apple's taking it slow and doing it right. I think the time has come for the iPhone and the PDA-Pod, but I'd hardly call that innovation - it's simply the next logical step.
That is why Apple will always have better, more consumer-friendly products, even if it goes against our "instant gratification" culture.
As for organizing the songs... um, do you really need to organize on the iPod any more than you already can? You download it, it gets added to your iPod's library, and the next time you sync with your computer, it gets dropped into your computer's library. At which point you can organize as you see fit. All the album art and tags will already be in place because the store has them all set up for you... it's not like the mishmash of tags you find on P2P networks. If the tags aren't exactly how you like them, oh well. Wait until you get home before you tweak them.
And songs won't cost a bunch to buy. Assuming this is a WiFi player rather than a cellular player, it'll connect FOR FREE to whatever WiFi hotspot you're in. No bandwidth surcharges.
Is this useful? If it's just a mobile store, then only marginally. But if there's a Pandora-like feature, where you can listen to customized, streamed radio stations that constantly introduce you to new music, then yes. Hear a new song that you love while you're on the go? Make one or two clicks and the song is downloading to your player, without having to wait until you get home. And while you're there, you might buy other songs by that artist (or the whole album), or do some more browsing. If they also included an "Add to Wishlist" feature rather than just "Buy Now", that would be even better.
So no, I don't think this is so outlandish or riddled with insurmountable barriers. I think that if it's done right, it could be very slick and remain very simple. Will MS do it right? I wouldn't bet on it. But I'd love to have an Apple-designed, Pandora-using, iTMS-integrated, WiFi iPod.
Originally posted by Chucker
Exactly. I don't want Apple to show signs of overconfidence, let alone arrogance. Healthy competition is always good; Apple is not exempt from that rule.
I am not sure where you are coming from here... to me every Stevenote already includes major arrogance, and I love it.
Apple has not had any serious competition from the inception of the iPod on... They keep the product fresh because Steve and Jonathan Ive are obsessive compulsive perfectionists. They will be consumed by the desire to make the iPod even thinner, and more elegant with or without Microsoft entering the fold. Steve has already indicated that they are working on wireless options (for earbuds), but have not found the technology to do it properly yet. Apple is weary of taking certain leaps too quickly, particularly when they compromise elegance/simplicity. And as for downloading songs over the air or whatever... Steve thinks the PC is the center of it all, Microsoft's bumbling wont change that. There is no way searching for songs on a small music player could possibly be elegant, unless it operates by mind control.
Originally posted by wilco
But we don't know what will really be released...
Yet somehow you managed to go on and on, pointing out hypothetical flaws in a product none of us know anything about.
You're on the wrong site if you only want discussion of actual products, not rumored ones
And I'm criticizing an often-discussed product concept--whether it comes from Microsoft, or as I said, even if it were to come from Apple.
A valid and relevant topic, maybe?
The reasons this device will flop big time and not to be afraid.
#1 - We are talking about microsoft here, I mean... hello? Why is it that people think a company with a totally lousy reputation is always on the verge of making a fantastic turnaround? Don't expect a turnaround until AFTER they show some sign of changing.
#2 - As i was saying, iTMS dominates the music download market, the songs people are buying and continue to buy won't run on Microsoft's player.
#3 - It won't be as thin as the iPod because they'll be too obsessed with features and junk that nobody needs. (this is microsoft)
#4 - It won't have the "cool" factor. This is microsoft, they wouldn't know cool if it hit them in the face.