Melgross don't fret over the lack of discussion reguarding resolution independence. I don't believe that showed up in Steve's WWDC keynote last time around. That was in the Graphics and Media State of the Union presentation. It will be those more focused workshops where the under the hood enhancements are discussed.
I for one am very eager to learn more about Objective-C 2. Here's what the blurb on Apple.com had to say:
Quote:
So compelling, Apple wrote Xcode 3.0 itself in it. Enjoy modern garbage collection, syntax enhancements, runtime performance improvements, and 64-bit support. At your own pace, since it?s backwards compatible with existing Objective-C source. Write applications more quickly with fewer bugs using Objective-C in Xcode 3.0.
I'm anxious to see how they managed garbage collection, and what syntax changes they made. Objective-C is a great language, but it was starting to show its age. Glad to see them sprucing it up.
The actual look will be something pretty special I imagine. As in do not underestimate the influence of the cosmetic. I have the public beta of Vista and have spent some time using it, and although it is indeed still a true son of a bitch when it comes to using it, I still find the first thing people say when they see it for the first time is that it's prettier than ever before. That Aero Glass makeover was a sly trick. Making things look shiny is the essential first step to selling them. MS did this very literally with Vista, and although I prefer my Mac any day, I think Apple may have something up their sleeves for a visual make over so that our Leopard comes out with all the visual goodness it needs to keep the eyes of the average buyer that 5 seconds long enough to bother trying out any of its apps.
Also, I expect Leopard can beat its Spring deadline in just the same way as we saw the offical DEATH OF POWERPC today a full year ahead of schedule. Could just be wishful thinking on my part though.
Bring on Snow Leopard
Maybe Steve will do the opposite to Vista and push the release date forward instead of back. MWSF 2007: 3rd Demo (2nd in Paris) We said Leopard would probably ship in Spring... That was a white lie. Leopard is in fact shipping today for $129. Get a copy and start using the 300+ amazing features, some of which you have seen here today. One more thing... The new Phone, tablet, iPod type thing that can cook a Full English.
XCode 3.0 supposedly ships today. It's not turned up on adc yet but I imagine it will soon enough. It includes Objective-C 2.0 as well with garbage collection. This is very important to developers as it's up there against Microsoft's .net managed code.
Where does it say that Xcode 3.0 is getting released today? I've been listening and reading, but not hearing or seeing it.
Oddly, Xcode 2.4 is shown for download on the ADC Xcode page but I don't see it on the downloads page in the Member Site. Will 2.4 be a stop gap and we'll have to buy Leopard to get the 3.0 features? As with Kickaha, I am really looking forward to it, so the sooner the better.
Time Machine looks amazing. How easy to use and intuitive does that look? I would imagine it's detecting the changes, as Backup currently does. So a big first copy, then lots of incremental ones, detailing changes. Of course if that is how it's done, it just makes searching through the individual system states even more incredible.
The rest of the stuff looked cool. I'm glad they're putting effort into Accessibility, it's okay for folks without disabilities to sit there and say it's fine for me or whatever, but everyone should be able to use computers. Spaces looked okay, I've used virtual desktops before, the key now is clicking an app in the dock takes you to the screen with that app in.
Lets face it, Apple has been very under promising lately and significantly over delivering on their promise:
Tiger to ship by 2h 2005 (IIRC), launched end of April, 2 months ahead.
Ship Intel macs by WWDC 2006, ~6 months ahead.
Move to Intel by end of 2007 was the first quote WWDC 2005, 16 months ahead.
The features list will grow. There are killer apps. This is the release that will compete directly with Windows. No smoke, no mirrors, no different platforms to hide behind. It's Windows vs. Mac OS X. Vista vs. Leopard.
I have yet to see the keynote (Apple's site won't show it because of too many visitors), but in a few things I've read, Steve Jobs has made reference to things that are yet to be announced as far as Leopard. Big things. I hope this is true because as is, its not worth the $120.
And exactly how much of that $129 are consistent look/feel and the ability to turn off Spotlight/Dashboard worth to you? \
consistant look and feel $50, although it should have been kept consistant all along
the ability to turn off spotlight and dashboard for older macs: $0 It should have been a DB/Spotlight feature in Tiger
and the 800LB Gorilla that Apple is ignoring
FIX THE F(antastic) FINDER!!!!
If done right (cleaner UI, better speed, better handling of nfs/smb shares and better FTP), $50
And the new multi-desktop thing is really cool, lets say $10 shareware price...
iChat (sans the keying which is really slick) is doing now what I did with netmeeting in Windows 98...so that has a whopping value of $0 Freeware...but I will be generous and add $20 for keying.
How will "time machine" archive all of those states of your OS and apps, files?? wont that take up HUGE amounts of HD space???
I'm still not clear how that works. A lot of the Apple programs like Mail have gone over to being really file-based where every message is in its own file. My guess is that it'll do some kind of incremental backups of files when they change, and then in the application there's a way to filter the data by date.
But, despite someone saying this doesn't use/require(?) .mac, where exactly is it backing up the files to??? A backup system is totally useless if it stores the backups on the same drive.
And yet Apple acusses others of being copycats and tells them to start their photocopiers. Oh, the irony.
Time Machine is way beyond System Restore. And that's discounting the user interface, and the assumption that it works. Go read about it some more. Rather than dig out my own words, here's a comment from a "Fanatic Realist" on another web site with which I agree:
"Saying that Time Machine is a competitor to System Restore is to wholly misunderstand the nature of System Restore and an insult to some of the more imaginative Windows ISVs like Altiris.
Time Machine is actually a competitor to Altiris' Client Recovery Solution (which was acquired as part of the Previo acquisition). CRS allows a user or systems admin to roll back either the operating system, an application or the data (so long as it was a static document) on a given client system (so long as that system was/is a Windows system).
Time Machine improves on the concept of most client recovery solutions by, as is the way with many Apple OS developments, having a published API that directly allows Apple and third-party ISVs to incorporate Time Machine functionality into their applications so long as, presumably, they adhere to the Core Data persistence mechanics."
And he/she raises some interesting questions as follows:
"1) Will Time Machine have a server version available in Leopard Server?
2) Is Time Machine likely to be capable of dealing with 'transactional' data, from applications such as 4D, Oracle or Sybase Adaptive Server. Logically, there's no reason why such apps should not generate logfile dumps on a regular basis that can be integrated into Time Machine either allowing a company to 'rollback' or - more helpfully - recover in the event of systems failure or data corruption.
3) Are Apple providing - via stealth - a mechanism that allows backup software developers (like EMC Dantz) to easily create plug-ins for apps that either don't like being open when being backed-up or - for commercial reasons (like 24/7 web storefronts) - can't be shut down for an indeterminate period whilst the data is secured."
I'm still not clear how that works. A lot of the Apple programs like Mail have gone over to being really file-based where every message is in its own file. My guess is that it'll do some kind of incremental backups of files when they change, and then in the application there's a way to filter the data by date.
But, despite someone saying this doesn't use/require(?) .mac, where exactly is it backing up the files to??? A backup system is totally useless if it stores the backups on the same drive.
Jobs says it stores the backups to another disk attached to the computer or to a disk on the network.
I find it odd that you guys are debating based on very little knowledge of the "nuts and bolts" of Leopard and UI that hasn't been announced yet. Seems like a waste of time.
OS updates are also about changing the plumbing to enable better functionality of the apps using said plumbing.
I'm pretty damn interested in what Apple's NOT telling the public about. I find it interesting that they are saying little about
Quart Extreme and 2D enhancements
Updates to Core API
No finder updates
Nothing on Automator
Nothing on Applescript
etc
Apple has much more to divulge but for now they are just whetting the appetite a bit. It's up to Mac users to read between the lines a bit more. Some of you have grown so dependent on Thinksecret and AI to provide you info about what's coming you haven't built up skills of your own.
Leopard is going to be a nice OS just as Tiger was. The pieces are falling into place we just have to be patient.
I'm still not clear how that works. A lot of the Apple programs like Mail have gone over to being really file-based where every message is in its own file. My guess is that it'll do some kind of incremental backups of files when they change, and then in the application there's a way to filter the data by date.
But, despite someone saying this doesn't use/require(?) .mac, where exactly is it backing up the files to??? A backup system is totally useless if it stores the backups on the same drive.
You can backup to an external HD or a OS X Server.
What will eventually happen is that Apple will bring this snapshot service into OS X Server and they will employ some version of du-duplication in the future. That means that file pointers will replace duplicate copies of workgroup shared files. If someone modifies the file then a new copy is saved but if no changes exist between muliple copies then the pointers save a bunch of space. Microsoft uses this and saves Terabytes of data. Your results will of course vary.
If Apple had better iSCSI support then could offer a Disaster Recover add on that would create these snapshots on another server connected over the WAN.
I disagree with this right here. I haven't had the chance to watch the keynote or the demonstrations about this since I'm at work, but....
Time Machine seems like a improved version of the Windows XP System Restore feature.
Spaces is pretty much linux's virtual desktop concept.
The iChat sharing desktop feature seems to be a pretty similar application to Windows XP's remote assitance feature.
No offense but that quote is pretty misleading, when 2 of the features seem to be taken from Windows XP itself.
And Windows XP Remote Assistance is a poor reduced capability ripoff of Timbuktu, which debuted on the Mac ages ago.
The idea of videoconferencing and over the network presentations (WebEx, etc) are not new. But Apple has lowered the price of entry to just the OS and free app, and made it easy to use for the average person by putting it into iChat. You wouldn't believe how many problems you can have signing a few people up for a WebEx presentation.
Comments
and the 800LB Gorilla that Apple is ignoring
FIX THE F(antastic) FINDER!!!!
They aren't ignoring it, they just aren't showing what they are doing.
I for one am very eager to learn more about Objective-C 2. Here's what the blurb on Apple.com had to say:
So compelling, Apple wrote Xcode 3.0 itself in it. Enjoy modern garbage collection, syntax enhancements, runtime performance improvements, and 64-bit support. At your own pace, since it?s backwards compatible with existing Objective-C source. Write applications more quickly with fewer bugs using Objective-C in Xcode 3.0.
I'm anxious to see how they managed garbage collection, and what syntax changes they made. Objective-C is a great language, but it was starting to show its age. Glad to see them sprucing it up.
I disagree with this right here. I haven't had the chance to watch the keynote or the demonstrations about this since I'm at work, but....
Time Machine seems like a improved version of the Windows XP System Restore feature.
Yes and it is needed badly in my opinion. This is cool.
Spaces is pretty much linux's virtual desktop concept.
We saw this coming for a long time. Virtue, etc. Its a love-it-or-hate-it app.
The iChat sharing desktop feature seems to be a pretty similar application to Windows XP's remote assitance feature.
Is this using built-in existing ARD technology? Im excited about this.
No offense but that quote is pretty misleading, when 2 of the features seem to be taken from Windows XP itself.
Sort of. Apple cant reinvent the wheel all the time.
Very true.
The actual look will be something pretty special I imagine. As in do not underestimate the influence of the cosmetic. I have the public beta of Vista and have spent some time using it, and although it is indeed still a true son of a bitch when it comes to using it, I still find the first thing people say when they see it for the first time is that it's prettier than ever before. That Aero Glass makeover was a sly trick. Making things look shiny is the essential first step to selling them. MS did this very literally with Vista, and although I prefer my Mac any day, I think Apple may have something up their sleeves for a visual make over so that our Leopard comes out with all the visual goodness it needs to keep the eyes of the average buyer that 5 seconds long enough to bother trying out any of its apps.
Also, I expect Leopard can beat its Spring deadline in just the same way as we saw the offical DEATH OF POWERPC today a full year ahead of schedule. Could just be wishful thinking on my part though.
Bring on Snow Leopard
Maybe Steve will do the opposite to Vista and push the release date forward instead of back. MWSF 2007: 3rd Demo (2nd in Paris) We said Leopard would probably ship in Spring... That was a white lie. Leopard is in fact shipping today for $129. Get a copy and start using the 300+ amazing features, some of which you have seen here today. One more thing... The new Phone, tablet, iPod type thing that can cook a Full English.
They had better not ship anything even remotly close to what was shown today at a $129 pricepoint, heck it isnt worth $20...
I Want:
consistant look and feel
the ability to turn off spotlight and dashboard for older macs
and the 800LB Gorilla that Apple is ignoring
FIX THE F(antastic) FINDER!!!!
Do that and I will write a check...
And exactly how much of that $129 are consistent look/feel and the ability to turn off Spotlight/Dashboard worth to you?
XCode 3.0 supposedly ships today. It's not turned up on adc yet but I imagine it will soon enough. It includes Objective-C 2.0 as well with garbage collection. This is very important to developers as it's up there against Microsoft's .net managed code.
Lots of debugging tools too.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/xcode.html
Where does it say that Xcode 3.0 is getting released today? I've been listening and reading, but not hearing or seeing it.
Oddly, Xcode 2.4 is shown for download on the ADC Xcode page but I don't see it on the downloads page in the Member Site. Will 2.4 be a stop gap and we'll have to buy Leopard to get the 3.0 features? As with Kickaha, I am really looking forward to it, so the sooner the better.
Time Machine looks amazing. How easy to use and intuitive does that look? I would imagine it's detecting the changes, as Backup currently does. So a big first copy, then lots of incremental ones, detailing changes. Of course if that is how it's done, it just makes searching through the individual system states even more incredible.
The rest of the stuff looked cool. I'm glad they're putting effort into Accessibility, it's okay for folks without disabilities to sit there and say it's fine for me or whatever, but everyone should be able to use computers. Spaces looked okay, I've used virtual desktops before, the key now is clicking an app in the dock takes you to the screen with that app in.
Lets face it, Apple has been very under promising lately and significantly over delivering on their promise:
- Tiger to ship by 2h 2005 (IIRC), launched end of April, 2 months ahead.
- Ship Intel macs by WWDC 2006, ~6 months ahead.
- Move to Intel by end of 2007 was the first quote WWDC 2005, 16 months ahead.
The features list will grow. There are killer apps. This is the release that will compete directly with Windows. No smoke, no mirrors, no different platforms to hide behind. It's Windows vs. Mac OS X. Vista vs. Leopard.How will "time machine" archive all of those states of your OS and apps, files?? wont that take up HUGE amounts of HD space???
Yup...snapshots always do. Thankfully HDD are getting cheaper and cheaper.
I have yet to see the keynote (Apple's site won't show it because of too many visitors), but in a few things I've read, Steve Jobs has made reference to things that are yet to be announced as far as Leopard. Big things. I hope this is true because as is, its not worth the $120.
How will "time machine" archive all of those states of your OS and apps, files?? wont that take up HUGE amounts of HD space???
Your 3TB of HDD in the Mac Pro will handle it with no problem
I disagree with this right here. I haven't had the chance to watch the keynote or the demonstrations about this since I'm at work, but....
Time Machine seems like a improved version of the Windows XP System Restore feature.
Spaces is pretty much linux's virtual desktop concept.
The iChat sharing desktop feature seems to be a pretty similar application to Windows XP's remote assitance feature.
No offense but that quote is pretty misleading, when 2 of the features seem to be taken from Windows XP itself.
And yet Apple acusses others of being copycats and tells them to start their photocopiers. Oh, the irony.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/08/07/vpc/index.php
And exactly how much of that $129 are consistent look/feel and the ability to turn off Spotlight/Dashboard worth to you?
consistant look and feel $50, although it should have been kept consistant all along
the ability to turn off spotlight and dashboard for older macs: $0 It should have been a DB/Spotlight feature in Tiger
and the 800LB Gorilla that Apple is ignoring
FIX THE F(antastic) FINDER!!!!
If done right (cleaner UI, better speed, better handling of nfs/smb shares and better FTP), $50
And the new multi-desktop thing is really cool, lets say $10 shareware price...
iChat (sans the keying which is really slick) is doing now what I did with netmeeting in Windows 98...so that has a whopping value of $0 Freeware...but I will be generous and add $20 for keying.
How will "time machine" archive all of those states of your OS and apps, files?? wont that take up HUGE amounts of HD space???
I'm still not clear how that works. A lot of the Apple programs like Mail have gone over to being really file-based where every message is in its own file. My guess is that it'll do some kind of incremental backups of files when they change, and then in the application there's a way to filter the data by date.
But, despite someone saying this doesn't use/require(?) .mac, where exactly is it backing up the files to??? A backup system is totally useless if it stores the backups on the same drive.
And yet Apple acusses others of being copycats and tells them to start their photocopiers. Oh, the irony.
Time Machine is way beyond System Restore. And that's discounting the user interface, and the assumption that it works. Go read about it some more. Rather than dig out my own words, here's a comment from a "Fanatic Realist" on another web site with which I agree:
"Saying that Time Machine is a competitor to System Restore is to wholly misunderstand the nature of System Restore and an insult to some of the more imaginative Windows ISVs like Altiris.
Time Machine is actually a competitor to Altiris' Client Recovery Solution (which was acquired as part of the Previo acquisition). CRS allows a user or systems admin to roll back either the operating system, an application or the data (so long as it was a static document) on a given client system (so long as that system was/is a Windows system).
Time Machine improves on the concept of most client recovery solutions by, as is the way with many Apple OS developments, having a published API that directly allows Apple and third-party ISVs to incorporate Time Machine functionality into their applications so long as, presumably, they adhere to the Core Data persistence mechanics."
And he/she raises some interesting questions as follows:
"1) Will Time Machine have a server version available in Leopard Server?
2) Is Time Machine likely to be capable of dealing with 'transactional' data, from applications such as 4D, Oracle or Sybase Adaptive Server. Logically, there's no reason why such apps should not generate logfile dumps on a regular basis that can be integrated into Time Machine either allowing a company to 'rollback' or - more helpfully - recover in the event of systems failure or data corruption.
3) Are Apple providing - via stealth - a mechanism that allows backup software developers (like EMC Dantz) to easily create plug-ins for apps that either don't like being open when being backed-up or - for commercial reasons (like 24/7 web storefronts) - can't be shut down for an indeterminate period whilst the data is secured."
I'm still not clear how that works. A lot of the Apple programs like Mail have gone over to being really file-based where every message is in its own file. My guess is that it'll do some kind of incremental backups of files when they change, and then in the application there's a way to filter the data by date.
But, despite someone saying this doesn't use/require(?) .mac, where exactly is it backing up the files to??? A backup system is totally useless if it stores the backups on the same drive.
Jobs says it stores the backups to another disk attached to the computer or to a disk on the network.
OS updates are also about changing the plumbing to enable better functionality of the apps using said plumbing.
I'm pretty damn interested in what Apple's NOT telling the public about. I find it interesting that they are saying little about
Quart Extreme and 2D enhancements
Updates to Core API
No finder updates
Nothing on Automator
Nothing on Applescript
etc
Apple has much more to divulge but for now they are just whetting the appetite a bit. It's up to Mac users to read between the lines a bit more. Some of you have grown so dependent on Thinksecret and AI to provide you info about what's coming you haven't built up skills of your own.
Leopard is going to be a nice OS just as Tiger was. The pieces are falling into place we just have to be patient.
I'm still not clear how that works. A lot of the Apple programs like Mail have gone over to being really file-based where every message is in its own file. My guess is that it'll do some kind of incremental backups of files when they change, and then in the application there's a way to filter the data by date.
But, despite someone saying this doesn't use/require(?) .mac, where exactly is it backing up the files to??? A backup system is totally useless if it stores the backups on the same drive.
You can backup to an external HD or a OS X Server.
What will eventually happen is that Apple will bring this snapshot service into OS X Server and they will employ some version of du-duplication in the future. That means that file pointers will replace duplicate copies of workgroup shared files. If someone modifies the file then a new copy is saved but if no changes exist between muliple copies then the pointers save a bunch of space. Microsoft uses this and saves Terabytes of data. Your results will of course vary.
If Apple had better iSCSI support then could offer a Disaster Recover add on that would create these snapshots on another server connected over the WAN.
I disagree with this right here. I haven't had the chance to watch the keynote or the demonstrations about this since I'm at work, but....
Time Machine seems like a improved version of the Windows XP System Restore feature.
Spaces is pretty much linux's virtual desktop concept.
The iChat sharing desktop feature seems to be a pretty similar application to Windows XP's remote assitance feature.
No offense but that quote is pretty misleading, when 2 of the features seem to be taken from Windows XP itself.
And Windows XP Remote Assistance is a poor reduced capability ripoff of Timbuktu, which debuted on the Mac ages ago.
The idea of videoconferencing and over the network presentations (WebEx, etc) are not new. But Apple has lowered the price of entry to just the OS and free app, and made it easy to use for the average person by putting it into iChat. You wouldn't believe how many problems you can have signing a few people up for a WebEx presentation.