Vista woes helping to build a better Leopard

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 55
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer


    Sadly, those ads fail to advertise the Mac, they simply advertise the arrogence and elietisum of Apple and to a large extent, re-enforce the steriotype that us "switchers" (at least the computer pros amoungst us) have to face each day when we mention that we use Macs...



    You could not be more wrong. Those simple ads with actors portraying computers have been extremely effective. For all of the handwringing about Apple's failure to promote all of the features in MacOS X, the most impressive feature to my Windows-using colleagues is its lack of viruses. The ad with the sneezing PC that is suffering from the latest virus really brings home the fact that Macs don't have viruses.
  • Reply 22 of 55
    I think Wu is right - Apple will spend some extra time to boost Leopard up some. FIxes originally scheduled for 10.5.1 can go into 10.5.0 - and maybe and idea or two that was originally pushed back to 10.6. Throw in ideas and issues from developers who will have Leopard for testing and development and things get a bit interesting While Apple is not going to lay back and relax the extra time will be nice for us and frustrating for MS. They KNOW what Apple is doing with that extra time.
  • Reply 23 of 55
    mark2005mark2005 Posts: 1,158member
    Because MS doesn't build the hardware, they will need a significantly longer lead time from the time they go final build on Vista to actual OS on-box-on-the-shelves to satisfy the needs of Dell and HP, then Apple will need for Leopard.



    So Apple could take advantage of that by waiting until Vista goes final before announcing the remainder of Leopard's features, and still beat Vista to the stores for consumers.
  • Reply 24 of 55
    mark2005mark2005 Posts: 1,158member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me


    You could not be more wrong. Those simple ads with actors portraying computers have been extremely effective. For all of the handwringing about Apple's failure to promote all of the features in MacOS X, the most impressive feature to my Windows-using colleagues is its lack of viruses. The ad with the sneezing PC that is suffering from the latest virus really brings home the fact that Macs don't have viruses.



    Agreed. And once Leopard ships, they could easily do such an ad about Mr. PC losing photos or music due to a hard drive failure, while the Mr. Mac talks about how he can go back in his Time Machine to retrieve it. Right out of the box.



    Also, once Leopard ships, they could do an ad about Mr. PC getting help via confusing instructions over the phone from a friend, while Mr. Mac says his friend can give him help directly through iChat, but better yet his friend can share photos and presentations while chatting. Much more fun. Right out of the box.



    And on and on...
  • Reply 25 of 55
    g-dogg-dog Posts: 171member
    Now if this isn't a case for the opposites. Windows fans are yelling at M$ for delaying Vista and Apple fans are actually pushing for Leapord to be delayed.



    LOL
  • Reply 26 of 55
    icfireballicfireball Posts: 2,594member
    This extra time to develop Leopard should be very benifitial.
  • Reply 27 of 55
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,034member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aquatic


    Yeah they should DEFINITELY do an ad showing all of Vista's features, then flash to a Mac, and show the equivalents in Tiger.



    Sorta like...that movie with Bill Gates narrating Vista features but the video showing their equivalents in Tiger. In fact, I wish Apple could just air that shit. Seriously. That was fucking SWEET. AND, I think people would "get it." It'd be a fucking home run.



    Let's fucking get rid of chiat/day with their "G5 blowing people through their wall" shit. What the fuck is Apple's Marketing Department's problem? These idiots definitely need to get back to Marketing 101. They haven't had a good ad since, well, 1984. Except the iPod ads.



    Oh yeah, I can certainly agree with you on this one. Everytime we discuss Apple's Ads, that one is the one that drives me nuts. But, don't forget that Apple..uh, Jobs, has to decide to go with it. So he is just as much to blame.



    MS has had better ads than Apple.
  • Reply 28 of 55
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,034member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Elijahg


    I don't think Apple's Mac Marketing Department gets more than 10% of the funds that the iPod Marketing Department does. When was the last time you saw a Mac advert...?



    lately? Too many times. These ads suck, big time!
  • Reply 29 of 55
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,034member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me


    You could not be more wrong. Those simple ads with actors portraying computers have been extremely effective. For all of the handwringing about Apple's failure to promote all of the features in MacOS X, the most impressive feature to my Windows-using colleagues is its lack of viruses. The ad with the sneezing PC that is suffering from the latest virus really brings home the fact that Macs don't have viruses.



    How do you know they have been effective? We used to do surveys after ads had run (along with the ones we did BEFORE the ads ran).



    Have you seen any surveys showing that after having seen them, people went out and bought a Mac who wouldn't have previously? Or, at least, said that they were more likely to do so?



    I haven't. Some people actually like the ads, but that's not the same thing.
  • Reply 30 of 55
    vl-tonevl-tone Posts: 337member
    Mac users are elitists? Sure Macs are perceived to be more expensive, and they have a small market-share. Studies shows that Mac users have on average a higher income and are more educated. I guess that the simple fact that I'm quoting studies like that could be interpreted as elitism.



    But I rarely found any Mac users saying that it's a good thing in itself and that prices shouldn't be lower. I never saw a Mac user seriously defending Mac prices and market-share by saying that it's a good thing to keep Macs out of the hands of poor people.



    On the other hand, Mac users have been repeating continually that Macs are easier to use, and that's a good thing for everyone. Pro-PC counter-arguments are that Macs are for dumb people, and run a dumbed down OS.



    That's where I see the real computer elitism resides. We often hear PC proponents saying that if there is so much malware on Windows is that many people are dumb. Same reason is given to explain unstable and problematic Windows systems. There's no sign of this changing, I wouldn't call those people dumb, they are simply people that decided that they had better things to do in life than to learn about how Windows/computers work.



    In the mean time, these Windows gurus make money on the back of "dumb" people, and/or appear as heroes saving their computer from evil malware.



    But, these people don't like to be called dumb, and they are starting to figure out that maybe their PC techie friends don't want them to buy Macs because they like to act like a savior, and need to feel smarter by knowing how to fix a registry problem on their friend's computer.



    Here's how the cycle is working for the Windows gurus:



    1. Recommend a PC to their friends and family and/or build one for them.

    2. Wait until they catch malware and/or screw something in Windows.

    3. Save the day and make their friend feel inferior and dumb compared to them.

    4. Repeat steps 1-4



    Ok sorry that was out of topic.
  • Reply 31 of 55
    Releasing Leopard same time with Vista is very effective way to promote OS X, that way every Vista review will turn to Vista/OS X comparison, OS X gets noted also in magazines that would not otherwise touch Mac subjects. Let Microsoft spend all the money to marketing and take a free ride with them. Of course Leopard has to be up to Vistas par or surpass it for that trick to work, but I wouldn't worry about that.
  • Reply 32 of 55
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,315member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by McHuman


    Hi. I'm a Mac.



    And I'm a PC.



    ...





    Ah yes... It was late...



    I've never actually seen one of those over here in the UK though.
  • Reply 33 of 55
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Elijahg


    Ah yes... It was late...



    I've never actually seen one of those over here in the UK though.



    And you won't. Our laws don't allow these adverts. I believe it's only banks that are allowed to show comparisons to competitors because they can give absolute figures.
  • Reply 34 of 55
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mobius


    Yeah, but what good is a 'streets-ahead' OS if you don't market it right, or at all come to that. Seriously, how many people outside the Mac bubble have even heard of OS X? And of the people that have, how many know what it has to offer...now. Nevermind about Leopard, does anyone outside of Macland know what they're missing RIGHT NOW?



    I plead with you Mr Jobs, advertise the OS, before the boat sails past without you on it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wings


    Mobius is right on. Until Apple puts Time Machine, iChat collaboration, Spaces, etc. on prime time TV, no one other than you and me and maybe someone else is gonna know what the hell OSX is all about.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Elijahg


    So do I, It would be great if apple advertised it as well. Just imagine, one minute you see an ad for Vista with all it's non-existant features, then next you see an ad with OS X's amazing qualities and features. It would be great!



    I guess we'll be hitting OS X.4.10 soon!



    I very much agree. I wish Apple would actually advertise OS X. The only people I know (in my circle) who know about OS X are close family and friends.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr. Me


    The ad with the sneezing PC that is suffering from the latest virus really brings home the fact that Macs don't have viruses.



    What about the people who say the reason why Macs don't get viruses is because Macs have lower market share, and Windows has most?



    Apple, please markey your products better.
  • Reply 35 of 55
    trobertstroberts Posts: 702member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mark2005


    Agreed. And once Leopard ships, they could easily do such an ad about Mr. PC losing photos or music due to a hard drive failure, while the Mr. Mac talks about how he can go back in his Time Machine to retrieve it. Right out of the box.



    Also, once Leopard ships, they could do an ad about Mr. PC getting help via confusing instructions over the phone from a friend, while Mr. Mac says his friend can give him help directly through iChat, but better yet his friend can share photos and presentations while chatting. Much more fun. Right out of the box.



    And on and on...



    Better yet, they could poke fun at WGA and have Mr. PC trying to convince someone (Windows Update) that they are not pirated while trying to get an update, or while in the middle of a conversation with the Mac guy, call "home" to make sure he is valid.
  • Reply 36 of 55
    I think Apple needs to start doing infomercials.

    Instead of 30 second blurbs, 30 minutes of solid reasons why the Mac is better.

    This would give them time to actually show the OS and demonstrate Apps. They could even give tutorials on how to use the iLife Apps.

    They could also have Jonathan Ive talk about the design of the hardware.



    During the show they could tell them to visit apple.com, call a 1-800 # or visit a local reseller to buy a Mac.
  • Reply 37 of 55
    meelashmeelash Posts: 1,045member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by troberts


    Better yet, they could poke fun at WGA and have Mr. PC trying to convince someone (Windows Update) that they are not pirated while trying to get an update, or while in the middle of a conversation with the Mac guy, call "home" to make sure he is valid.



    Genius! Appy for a job w/ Apple marketing immediately!
  • Reply 38 of 55
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella


    I think Apple needs to start doing infomercials.

    Instead of 30 second blurbs, 30 minutes of solid reasons why the Mac is better.

    This would give them time to actually show the OS and demonstrate Apps. They could even give tutorials on how to use the iLife Apps.

    They could also have Jonathan Ive talk about the design of the hardware.



    During the show they could tell them to visit apple.com, call a 1-800 # or visit a local reseller to buy a Mac.



    OMG you weren't around in the early/mid 90's were you? Think Performa. Think the 'dark days' just prior to Steve's return... Shudder I still have nightmares... Have a look at some of these links and pray nobody ever tries this again. No matter what that hawthornedirect.com page says (link below) that was Apple at the VERY bottom.



    "The Martinetis Get a Computer" was the title of the infomercial.



    Found this description:



    Quote:

    The commercial was basically a dad who doubted his family would actually use a computer, but agreeing to buy it on the condition that they all had to show him how useful it was over the course of a week or month or something. Even grandpa got involved by e-mailing his new girlfriend, who put in an appearance at the end of the infomercial. So dad was convinced, and they kept the computer.



    http://www.xs4all.nl/~johnr/apple.html

    http://www.hawthornedirect.com/caseS...e_studies.html



    Okay maybe I'm going overboard with how bad it was but Apple and infomercials just don't do it for me... Visions of bad actors and juicers and knives that can cut cans and "Ronco Hair In A Can" and oh make the visions stop, please make them stop...



    Dave
  • Reply 39 of 55
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross


    How do you know they have been effective? We used to do surveys after ads had run (along with the ones we did BEFORE the ads ran).



    Have you seen any surveys showing that after having seen them, people went out and bought a Mac who wouldn't have previously? Or, at least, said that they were more likely to do so?



    I haven't. Some people actually like the ads, but that's not the same thing.



    This is easy. I have been around awhile, seen things, and learned from them. In my experience, ordinary Windows users will see the ease at which quality work can be produced on the Mac. They will then go right back to their sticks and stones, dismissing the Mac as borderline magic. Others clearly are intimidated by the fact that the Mac minimizes the barrier between its users and what they want to do. Of the more sophisticated colleagues, my most memorable is extremely proficient in Windows. She gets it that the Mac allows her to produce quality work with less effort. However, she repeats the mantra that the Mac is more expensive. When I told her that the Mac has no viruses, I got her attention in a good way. As for the this latest Apple ad campaign, I just didn't get it. I thought that it was juvenile. That is, I thought so until I walked in on a bunch of Windows-preferring university students in a computer lab. They were actually talking about the virus commercial. They believed it. It made them more favorably disposed to the Mac. I have never seen any commercial for any product or service ever get such an immediate positive response as this Apple ad.
  • Reply 40 of 55
    zengazenga Posts: 267member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by afalkner


    Actually I think Apple should just stick to its schedule and release it when its ready. Releasing just ahead of Vista will only bring all the frustration that windows users are experiencing with the delays to mac users. If they stick to their own time line Apple could be on Sabertooth by the time Vista is released.



    Good 1!

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