Apple likely to allow movie transfers to DVD

Posted:
in iPod + iTunes + AppleTV edited January 2014
Apple Computer is atop the list of merchants that could soon start to allow video downloads to be transferred onto DVDs.



According to the Associated Press, the DVD Copy Control Association is set to remove some of the procedural hurdles that prevented the legal recording of movies onto blank DVDs.



The move, expected to be finalized soon, would allow retailers to create movie jukebox kiosks with which customers can select movie titles and burn them to a DVD on the spot, the report states.



The impending changes are said to rely heavily on the DVD Copy Control Association's proprietary technology known as the Content Scramble System, or CSS.



"The association, an arm of Hollywood studios, licenses the encryption technology to makers of DVD players and other electronics companies and applies it widely to movies on DVDs to restrict illegal copying," the AP reported.



The group said it will soon expand licensing to movies other than those that are mass produced on DVD, such as digitally distributed on demand titles. It's also working with disc makers to produce CSS-compatible blank DVDs.
«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 24
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    This would be good news, but if you need special DVDs, it would be bad news.
  • Reply 2 of 24
    bdj21yabdj21ya Posts: 297member
    It depends, if they maintain a monopoly on the CSS license, then the new DVD's will be expensive and make it not worth downloading to burn. However, if they're smart, I think they would want as many people as possible to be using these DVD's, and buy their movies online. Recording studios could pick up a larger profit margin from people who are willing to pay for the convenience of not having to go to the store (with all the money they save on packaging and distribution).



    Still, I'd rather see Apple offer a rental service for like $3-$4 with a near DVD quality movie that works for a week. For me, movies aren't like music. I don't care about having a library of DVD's, I generally only want to watch a movie once, twice at the most, and even renting twice is usually cheaper than buying once.
  • Reply 3 of 24
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    The problem for making CSS-corrupted DVDS as I understand it is that the writers need to be "authoring" drives in order to be able to write encrypted DVDs, and the blanks need to be "authoring" type as well. The consumer blanks have zeros written where there are keys.



    The problem with CSS-encrypted DVDs is that the encryption is so ridiculously easy to bypass that it is essentially unprotected, like a bathroom lock that only needs a stab with a coat hanger to open. Anyone claiming otherwise is either lying or said person has their head in an orifice.



    The scuttlebutt for CinemaNow's copy protection, meant for consumer drives and blanks, is that they deliberately introduce errors. I thought consumer drives automatically ignore and correct errors like that, though that knowledge was from the CD writer days. Assuming you can write a somewhat more error-riddled disc, means that the margin to failure is that much closer.
  • Reply 4 of 24
    I think burning movies to DVD is going to have to get a lot quicker, simpler and have a better good-DVD-to-"coaster" ratio before Apple gets behind it. The way these other services (are supposed to) work just does not seem to fit the Apple ethos.
  • Reply 5 of 24
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdj21ya


    It depends, if they maintain a monopoly on the CSS license, then the new DVD's will be expensive and make it not worth downloading to burn. However, if they're smart, I think they would want as many people as possible to be using these DVD's, and buy their movies online. Recording studios could pick up a larger profit margin from people who are willing to pay for the convenience of not having to go to the store (with all the money they save on packaging and distribution).



    Still, I'd rather see Apple offer a rental service for like $3-$4 with a near DVD quality movie that works for a week. For me, movies aren't like music. I don't care about having a library of DVD's, I generally only want to watch a movie once, twice at the most, and even renting twice is usually cheaper than buying once.



    I like to own them. We don't get to see too many movies, so we buy the ones we want to see.



    The problem is that sometimes my wife wants to see it when I don't. same thing with my daughter. Then she may also have friends over who watch it. this could take place over a week, or a year. Teens, particularly, like to see the movie more than once.



    Renting gets expensive as well therefore. It's also just more of a hassle. But, the ideal would be to do both.
  • Reply 6 of 24
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM


    The problem for making CSS-corrupted DVDS as I understand it is that the writers need to be "authoring" drives in order to be able to write encrypted DVDs, and the blanks need to be "authoring" type as well. The consumer blanks have zeros written where there are keys.



    The problem with CSS-encrypted DVDs is that the encryption is so ridiculously easy to bypass that it is essentially unprotected, like a bathroom lock that only needs a stab with a coat hanger to open. Anyone claiming otherwise is either lying or said person has their head in an orifice.



    The scuttlebutt for CinemaNow's copy protection, meant for consumer drives and blanks, is that they deliberately introduce errors. I thought consumer drives automatically ignore and correct errors like that, though that knowledge was from the CD writer days. Assuming you can write a somewhat more error-riddled disc, means that the margin to failure is that much closer.



    That's a good point. But there wouldn't be a problem to fit the kiosks with authoring drives if necessary. Even authoring disk prices have dropped a lot.



    But, if this will be made available to home users, they will have found out some way around that.



    The vast majotity of users just care if the danged things play. The rest doesn't matter. Come to think of it, same for me.
  • Reply 7 of 24
    dcqdcq Posts: 349member
    I'm still skeptical of the whole movie download business. Again, iTMS is successful because it offers trade-offs that are generally in its favor.



    The negatives: lower quality music than CDs



    The positives: generally cheaper than CDs in stores or even on Amazon; nigh-instant downloads even for those on dial-up; ability to choose individual songs rather than whole albums; small file size makes for easy portability; the loss in quality is generally imperceptible to most people



    For TV shows, we have this scenario:



    negatives: lower quality video than DVD or even regular TV, which is more obvious for video than audio; expensive if you want whole seasons; no extras; no commentaries; no subtitle switching



    positives: can dl individual episodes rather than whole seasons; if you buy individual episodes, it can be cheaper than buying a whole season; relatively small file sizes makes for easy portability; relatively quick downloads on broadband, and not absurd on dial-up; available before DVDs are released; you don't have to buy additional equipment to connect your comp to your TV; no commercials; no annoying station adverts or logos



    For movies, what will we most likely have?



    negatives: lower quality video than DVD and regular TV (let alone HD); long download times, even for those on broadband and ridiculous dl times for those on dial-up (making it effectively impossible given how often dial-up connections are broken); no extras; no commentaries; no subtitle switching; more expensive than DVDs on sale



    positives: umm... (???) help me out here...



    I've said it before, but I think Apple would do much much much better and make a bigger splash by creating a program (an iTunes for videos) to take advantage of the ability to copy video from BDs and HDDVDs (c.f., MMC).



    Once that stuff gets going, it can then intro movie downloads as an alternative, just like low-quality iTMS songs are an alternative to buying CDs. If you're the type of person that wants a high-quality digital copy with extras and alternate tracks, then buy the disks and rip them yourself; if you just want bare-bones and can deal with the loss in quality, then buy online from Apple.



    I think this is important from a market perspective: if Apple gets started with the low-quality, long-dl-time download business, it can get mauled in the press and by users who think that they're getting the same quality as a DVD. This equals a tarnished if not a ruined reputation.



    If it gets going with movies first by giving users the option to burn their stuff at the quality they want (just like you can rip music at varying bitrates), then my guess is that they'll get a whoooooooole boat-load of good press, and do the movie industry a big favor by providing an incentive for people to upgrade to HD kit and discs*. They could then also help standardize the way in which studios allow content to be copied. Right now, there's a risk that MMC could fade away into nothingness (like angles on DVDs). Imagine the good press and buzz when every HD disc comes with a little note or logo "Works with Apple's Film Vault" (or whatever the name of the app is). This could quite literally be Apple's "killer app."
  • Reply 8 of 24
    eckingecking Posts: 1,588member
    Maybe they somehow intend to have the disks only available to kiosks and companies?



    An apple like netflix, except you download the movie in near dvd quality and you are mailed the disk?



    Personally I don't like these things unless it's cheap. I prefer to see a nice packed dvd on my shelf with nice art and what not. Paying for a sharpied dvd seems kinda lame.



    Unless like I said it's dirt cheap.



    But....if that's dirt cheap, sells amazing and is such a good option why offer dvds in stores anymore?



    Seeing proper in store movies sales going the way of the dinosaur would bring tears to my eyes. And would probably make less money for the studios.



    Is there a middle ground?



    Personally I say just make a file only movie store that make a true media mac. Then have the ability to burn to dvd not a movie that works on any conventional player but a special dvd file that works only in ms media centre and front row(standardized format of some kind) and anyother 3rd party that wants to take it that type of program. The point is it would need a computer.



    That wouldn't bastardize dvds themselves and could still give people digital movies they could download to a computer or ipod.



    I think that'd be ideal but I can understand why other people wouldn't want that.



    But think of the beauty! You buy one time a media centre type comp (mac or pc or even use with your current comp if it can handle the power) then you could subscribe to unlimted movies and specialized digital disk backups, or you could pay 5-10 per movie.



    or



    You could walk into a store and buy conventional dvds if thats your cup of tea.



    or



    You could use BT or P2P and get sued.



    That'd be sick.
  • Reply 9 of 24
    copy protection is a huge waste of time. If it can be played in a DVD player, people can copy it. It's only a matter of time until they figure it out.



    I have friends that hardly know how to use their computer, but they sure do know how to copy DVD's.
  • Reply 10 of 24
    auxioauxio Posts: 1,980member
    This could actually turn out to be a positive thing. If they make the movies w/ discs cheap enough that it's more attractive to people than buying a DVD burner (second drive), discs, and finding/setting up software to copy DVDs, then it will work.



    There will always be people who'd rather spend the time and money to pirate copies of movies. But to a lot of people, I think a small premium would be worth saving that time and effort.
  • Reply 11 of 24
    applepiapplepi Posts: 365member
    The kiosks are just an ok idea. For people who don't have computers.But if you're going to go to a kiosk why not just go intoa store? Isn't the real push here the ability to do this at home without having to go someplace or buy special hardware?



    Full length movies on Divx format are only about 700-900MB's. Perhaps Apple will offer a DRM'ed H.264 download around the same size. And then the software (itunes?) would automatically convert it to DVD format. So the disc itself wouldn't be copy protected, just the video file on the computer. Just like how itunes music works when buring to CD. No special discs or burners or anything. Because if you did need those things I don't think anybody would do it.



    I wouldn't pay more then $8 for a movie this way though. Ideally closer to $5. Like someone above said a sharpied DVD-R just isn't worth the same to me as a store bought pressed and printed disk with box. And consdering alot of DVD's sell new in the store for $5-$10 already they better be prepared to compete heavy on price.
  • Reply 12 of 24
    eaieai Posts: 417member
    Why bother messing with CSS. Its entirely ineffective, appart from restricting non-technical users from exporting dvds. It is entirely useless to prevent copying.
  • Reply 13 of 24
    baygbmbaygbm Posts: 147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mariofreak85


    copy protection is a huge waste of time. If it can be played in a DVD player, people can copy it. It's only a matter of time until they figure it out.



    I have friends that hardly know how to use their computer, but they sure do know how to copy DVD's.



    Ditto.



    I have Netflix and get all the movies I want that way... even lots of foreign films! Because I have such ready access to movies, old TV shows (and anything else on DVD) I can't be bothered to copy movies. If I wanted to copy DVDs, I have the software to do it, but who wants piles and piles of DVD disks cluttering up the house? Not me.



    Truth be told, I do rip movies now and then to my hard drive so I always have a ready backlog of (5 or 6) fresh movies to watch, but piles of duplicated DVDs hanging around my house? No. Not even one.
  • Reply 14 of 24
    DCQ has won this round.
  • Reply 15 of 24
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    So why in the name of Christ cant I burn my DL'ed TV shows yet? I buy i-Music, I can burn it: I buy the 2 EPs of Southpark that I wanted and I have to watch them on my computer display!



    For Shame!
  • Reply 16 of 24
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,994member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider


    Apple Computer is atop the list of merchants that could soon start to allow video downloads to be transferred onto DVDs.



    According to the Associated Press, the DVD Copy Control Association is set to remove some of the procedural hurdles that prevented the legal recording of movies onto blank DVDs.



    The move, expected to be finalized soon, would allow retailers to create movie jukebox kiosks with which customers can select movie titles and burn them to a DVD on the spot, the report states.



    The impending changes are said to rely heavily on the DVD Copy Control Association's proprietary technology known as the Content Scramble System, or CSS.



    "The association, an arm of Hollywood studios, licenses the encryption technology to makers of DVD players and other electronics companies and applies it widely to movies on DVDs to restrict illegal copying," the AP reported.



    The group said it will soon expand licensing to movies other than those that are mass produced on DVD, such as digitally distributed on demand titles. It's also working with disc makers to produce CSS-compatible blank DVDs.



    Good lord... this idea again!?



    How many people remember the custom mix tape (featuring most of the popular tunes of the day) that you could have created while you wait, available at Warehouse Music, or Tower Records about 10 years ago? They didn't sell many tapes, even though it worked exactly as promised.



    Most people will want the fully tricked out "collectible" DVD they can buy now for $18-30-something bucks. Can't see DVD kiosks taking off. People don't like to buy that way.
  • Reply 18 of 24
    Aha! I remembered the company who made the personalized mix tapes, it was called "Personics" (gotta love the Internet, it's our collective memory).



    Here's a coupla links.



    http://www.betagroupllc.com/1st-personics.html

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200...124235_F.shtml

    http://www.dailyping.com/archive/2000/10/15/
  • Reply 19 of 24
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Quote:



    For people who don't want to click the link:
    Quote:

    "The DVD Copy Control Association has released a statement (pdf) announcing that it will make adaptations to the Content Scramble System (CSS) used to protect DVDs. The association, made up of Hollywood studios, consumer electronics and software companies, licenses CSS to the DVD industry to protect content. The changes will allow home users to legally burn purchased movie downloads to special CSS protected DVDs, compatible with existing DVD players."



    I hope Apple will now allow burning current videos purchased through iTMS to DVD. The fact that it takes special DVDs is still a huge barrier though, IMO.
  • Reply 20 of 24
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell


    For people who don't want to click the link:



    I hope Apple will now allow burning current videos purchased through iTMS to DVD. The fact that it takes special DVDs is still a huge barrier though, IMO.



    Depends on what they will cost. Actually, it depends on what the entire process will cost. If the quality is high enough, as long at the cost of the download, plus the disk (and case) costs significantly less than a purchase of the shrink wrapped product, it might be worth it. As long as we could print out the covers as well.
Sign In or Register to comment.