I guess this wasn't posted here, because I saw that on Ars 3-4 months ago. It sparked a heated discussion...like its use of a laptop optical drive and how the keyboard is attached to the computer...Why? Heh.
<strong>Any thing that is being run on a Celeron processor still is not worth buying. They could have at least stuck a Intel P3 Chip in it or maybe even a low end P4. And you would figure with it running that Celeron chip that it would cost ummm 1000$ to 1100$. You can get a 100x better Vaio Laptop for that price. It makes no sense.</strong><hr></blockquote>
this shows that sony is desperate to get customers... APple is stealing their market!! LOL! go apple! and i thinik Brian Mac OS is absolurtely right. they should have at least placed a p4 in there... celerons are slow as hell.....
[quote]Originally posted by Proud iBook Owner 2k2:
<strong>this shows that sony is desperate to get customers... APple is stealing their market!! LOL! go apple! and i thinik Brian Mac OS is absolurtely right. they should have at least placed a p4 in there... celerons are slow as hell.....
I rest my case on that.</strong><hr></blockquote> But like Apple's iMac they wont sell for the sake of the specs. They're trying to sell the design. Although I think it's pathetic I can give 'em 2 stars for trying. Or do you think I just bought a new iMac cause it's so fast! No, even a Celeron would beet it by a mile. I bought the design and the Mac OS of course. This isn't aimed at the specs concerned customers. It's for the 'good looking CEO wannabe' office. I guess they'll sell a few to the '10 years after' type of good looking executive wannabe's <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
[quote]Originally posted by Proud iBook Owner 2k2:
<strong>this shows that sony is desperate to get customers... APple is stealing their market!! LOL! go apple! and i thinik Brian Mac OS is absolurtely right. they should have at least placed a p4 in there... celerons are slow as hell.....
I rest my case on that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, right, a company that's 10 times bigger than Apple with diversified income stream is shaking in its boots! And this is opposed to Apple (or most companies out there) who prefers to not get more customers and market share???
As for Celeron vs P4, you have absolutely no idea how they perform against each other beside nodding your head and say "yeah, what he said." Case in point: See <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q3/020903/p4_celeron-10.html"; target="_blank">Tom's Hardware</a> which benchmark's a P4 1.7 to Celeron 1.7. For MP3 encoding, for example, C1.7 is only 3% slower than a P4 of the same clockspeed. And if one needs a P4 2.8ghz or a dualie G4 1.25ghz, you are in not in this PC or iMac's target audience anyway.
How am I exaggerating? I don't think I am if you are talking about the price I listed I find it very reasonable. The Profile 4 is a better computer overall. I don't see how any system right now running a Celeron can cost upwards of 1600$. I have never been a big fan of Celeron. Every machine I have touched with a Celeron hasn't been a good one. Sure they are good chips for what they have to offer but a P3 would be a better option.
Desktop real estate is at a premium in Japan, where this was originally intended. Furthermore, this comes in handy when one is not using a KB and need only to display essential information (time, stock ticker, WinAmp, etc). Heck, this could be the most expensive bed-side alarm ever.
But seriously, not every flat-panel PC is suppose to be an iMac killa - no need for Mac users to be always so defensive!</strong><hr></blockquote>
I can't read Japanese, but it looks like it has a much bigger desk footprint than the iMac, or the black Compaq desktop that I'm typing this on right now (I don't know the model--just that it's black and one of the smallest PC desktops I've seen. It's narrower than the keyboard, and about as deep as the 17" CRT sitting on top of it).
Desktop space is a premium everywhere; if this was meant as a space saver, there are better options in both the PC and Mac world.
Design is more than just looks. It's also ergonomics and functionality. Attaching the keyboard to the monitor means that you can't use a keyboard tray, or elevate the montior.
One of the main differences of the C compared to the Pentiums is the substantially smaller cache. According to ARS articles the small cache makes little difference in small applications that stream data through. Stuff like games and mp3 coding.
Larger apps that does not fit in the caches like Office had more problem on the Cs.
But at 1.7 GHz it should be pretty snappy small cache or not!
Compare this to the 603 on the mac some years back. The problem of the performa 6200 was not the CPU per se but a combination ofs slow bus a even slower IDE implementation and so on.
A computer is a system and no system is stronger than its weakest link
Today's Celerons are built off the P4 Core. The differences between the two would definitely go unnoticed to the typical home user.
Anyway, this Sony AIO is not an attractive design. Then again, Sony is very hit and miss with their designs. I never thought the entire VAIO line was AS nice as most said it was. Different isn't always nice (I guess I am not into lavender and slate blue).
<strong>How much? What Software? (besides Win XP)? Why is it a iMac Killer?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's an iMac killer because it's hit *big* in Japan (the market it was designed for) SELLING far better than the iMac. That's why SONY decided to see if it'd sell in the States too. One in 5 all computers selling in Japan is this VAIO model. Apple would kill for numbers like that. That's *HUGE* hit when it comes to computers. SONY itself so underestimated demand they sold in the first day what they'd expected to sell in the first month!
In Japan at least, it comes with XP Home and Sony's GigaPocket software which uses the TV tuner to do TiVo-type duties of recording TV programs to the HD. It has a CDRW burner / DVDROM player. And iLink (Firewire). The LCD is 16:9 15.2" widescreen (1280 x 768 pixels) and you can get it in black or white.
Also includes SONY's jukebox & photo album software and probably other stuff as well. THREE USB 2.0 ports, TWO iLink (Firewire) ports, 1.6GHz Celeron, 512MB RAM, memory stick slot & optical mouse. The speakers built-in so it can act as a stereo when the keyboard is up. All this for $1600. And from Apple you get what in an iMac FP?
Most of the computers sold in Japan are laptops not for portability but for size which makes this a great design for that market (or, say, college dorms) where space is a premium. With the screen up it automatically places a clock in the top part of the screen which isn't covered by the keyboard.
No it's a very poor design, but it is trendy and the Japanese love that. Nothing on it can't be done in software. Just looking at it you can see that apart from the keyboard an iMac takes up less space.
However, having some experience with this, I can say the Japanese have some very odd tastes. It doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean it can't sell well when the people buying it don't make a hell of a lot of sense themselves. The keyboard will get tiresome after a few weeks. Alarm-clocks and radios are a triviality in the rest of the world, but in Japan things are a little different. I can't tell you how many Japanese girls I knew had these impossibly tiny, next to useless sub-sub-notes as their main machines. They're obsessed with technology and miniaturization as it's own end but they seldom pull it off as an actual improvement.
<strong>No it's a very poor design, but it is trendy and the Japanese love that. Nothing on it can't be done in software. Just looking at it you can see that apart from the keyboard an iMac takes up less space.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It likely doesn't take up less desk area, it just seems like it does. Also, the iMac keyboard (and speakers) don't simply vanish--they do matter to the space conscious. The iMac takes up a good 17" x 11", plus the keyboard sticks out.
On the software comment, how do I get a TV Tuner/TiVo capability on the iMac without adding hardware?
It seems like a better deal than the iMac FPs with more ports, more standard RAM, etc. The only problem I've found with SONY hardware (other than cheap keyboard plastics) is they run Windows.
How am I exaggerating? I don't think I am if you are talking about the price I listed I find it very reasonable. The Profile 4 is a better computer overall. I don't see how any system right now running a Celeron can cost upwards of 1600$. I have never been a big fan of Celeron. Every machine I have touched with a Celeron hasn't been a good one. Sure they are good chips for what they have to offer but a P3 would be a better option.</strong><hr></blockquote>
How is this for an exaggeration?
"You can get a 100x better Vaio Laptop for that price."
It's clear that you are no fan of celeron but you have not gone much beyond 'all celerons suck' argument.
Comments
<strong>Any thing that is being run on a Celeron processor still is not worth buying. They could have at least stuck a Intel P3 Chip in it or maybe even a low end P4. And you would figure with it running that Celeron chip that it would cost ummm 1000$ to 1100$. You can get a 100x better Vaio Laptop for that price. It makes no sense.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exaggerating a bit, no?
I rest my case on that.
<strong>this shows that sony is desperate to get customers... APple is stealing their market!! LOL! go apple! and i thinik Brian Mac OS is absolurtely right. they should have at least placed a p4 in there... celerons are slow as hell.....
I rest my case on that.</strong><hr></blockquote> But like Apple's iMac they wont sell for the sake of the specs. They're trying to sell the design. Although I think it's pathetic I can give 'em 2 stars for trying. Or do you think I just bought a new iMac cause it's so fast! No, even a Celeron would beet it by a mile. I bought the design and the Mac OS of course. This isn't aimed at the specs concerned customers. It's for the 'good looking CEO wannabe' office. I guess they'll sell a few to the '10 years after' type of good looking executive wannabe's <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>this shows that sony is desperate to get customers... APple is stealing their market!! LOL! go apple! and i thinik Brian Mac OS is absolurtely right. they should have at least placed a p4 in there... celerons are slow as hell.....
I rest my case on that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, right, a company that's 10 times bigger than Apple with diversified income stream is shaking in its boots! And this is opposed to Apple (or most companies out there) who prefers to not get more customers and market share???
As for Celeron vs P4, you have absolutely no idea how they perform against each other beside nodding your head and say "yeah, what he said." Case in point: See <a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q3/020903/p4_celeron-10.html"; target="_blank">Tom's Hardware</a> which benchmark's a P4 1.7 to Celeron 1.7. For MP3 encoding, for example, C1.7 is only 3% slower than a P4 of the same clockspeed. And if one needs a P4 2.8ghz or a dualie G4 1.25ghz, you are in not in this PC or iMac's target audience anyway.
Rest your case on that.
<strong>
Exaggerating a bit, no?</strong><hr></blockquote>
How am I exaggerating? I don't think I am if you are talking about the price I listed I find it very reasonable. The Profile 4 is a better computer overall. I don't see how any system right now running a Celeron can cost upwards of 1600$. I have never been a big fan of Celeron. Every machine I have touched with a Celeron hasn't been a good one. Sure they are good chips for what they have to offer but a P3 would be a better option.
<a href="http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/PCV-W102/feat3_master.html"; target="_blank">http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/PCV-W102/feat3_master.html</a>;
Take a look at the side view. Ugh!
[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: apple.otaku ]</p>
<strong>The KB flips up, duh.
Desktop real estate is at a premium in Japan, where this was originally intended. Furthermore, this comes in handy when one is not using a KB and need only to display essential information (time, stock ticker, WinAmp, etc). Heck, this could be the most expensive bed-side alarm ever.
But seriously, not every flat-panel PC is suppose to be an iMac killa - no need for Mac users to be always so defensive!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Look at the <a href="http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/PCV-W102/feat3_master.html"; target="_blank">picture</a>. You can't flip the keyboard up and use it as you suggest because the keyboard in the "up" position blocks over half the screen.
I can't read Japanese, but it looks like it has a much bigger desk footprint than the iMac, or the black Compaq desktop that I'm typing this on right now (I don't know the model--just that it's black and one of the smallest PC desktops I've seen. It's narrower than the keyboard, and about as deep as the 17" CRT sitting on top of it).
Desktop space is a premium everywhere; if this was meant as a space saver, there are better options in both the PC and Mac world.
Design is more than just looks. It's also ergonomics and functionality. Attaching the keyboard to the monitor means that you can't use a keyboard tray, or elevate the montior.
One of the main differences of the C compared to the Pentiums is the substantially smaller cache. According to ARS articles the small cache makes little difference in small applications that stream data through. Stuff like games and mp3 coding.
Larger apps that does not fit in the caches like Office had more problem on the Cs.
But at 1.7 GHz it should be pretty snappy small cache or not!
Compare this to the 603 on the mac some years back. The problem of the performa 6200 was not the CPU per se but a combination ofs slow bus a even slower IDE implementation and so on.
A computer is a system and no system is stronger than its weakest link
Anyway, this Sony AIO is not an attractive design. Then again, Sony is very hit and miss with their designs. I never thought the entire VAIO line was AS nice as most said it was. Different isn't always nice (I guess I am not into lavender and slate blue).
[ 10-08-2002: Message edited by: Patchouli ]</p>
<strong>How much? What Software? (besides Win XP)? Why is it a iMac Killer?</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's an iMac killer because it's hit *big* in Japan (the market it was designed for) SELLING far better than the iMac. That's why SONY decided to see if it'd sell in the States too. One in 5 all computers selling in Japan is this VAIO model. Apple would kill for numbers like that. That's *HUGE* hit when it comes to computers. SONY itself so underestimated demand they sold in the first day what they'd expected to sell in the first month!
In Japan at least, it comes with XP Home and Sony's GigaPocket software which uses the TV tuner to do TiVo-type duties of recording TV programs to the HD. It has a CDRW burner / DVDROM player. And iLink (Firewire). The LCD is 16:9 15.2" widescreen (1280 x 768 pixels) and you can get it in black or white.
Also includes SONY's jukebox & photo album software and probably other stuff as well. THREE USB 2.0 ports, TWO iLink (Firewire) ports, 1.6GHz Celeron, 512MB RAM, memory stick slot & optical mouse. The speakers built-in so it can act as a stereo when the keyboard is up. All this for $1600. And from Apple you get what in an iMac FP?
Most of the computers sold in Japan are laptops not for portability but for size which makes this a great design for that market (or, say, college dorms) where space is a premium. With the screen up it automatically places a clock in the top part of the screen which isn't covered by the keyboard.
More on why this truly is an iMac killer (at least in Japan) check out <a href="http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,90003,00.asp"; target="_blank">this article.</a>
Full disclosure: I'm writing this on a 15" Superdrive iMac FP (primary machine) next to two VAIOs (desktop & notebook).
However, having some experience with this, I can say the Japanese have some very odd tastes. It doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean it can't sell well when the people buying it don't make a hell of a lot of sense themselves. The keyboard will get tiresome after a few weeks. Alarm-clocks and radios are a triviality in the rest of the world, but in Japan things are a little different. I can't tell you how many Japanese girls I knew had these impossibly tiny, next to useless sub-sub-notes as their main machines. They're obsessed with technology and miniaturization as it's own end but they seldom pull it off as an actual improvement.
<strong>No it's a very poor design, but it is trendy and the Japanese love that. Nothing on it can't be done in software. Just looking at it you can see that apart from the keyboard an iMac takes up less space.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
It likely doesn't take up less desk area, it just seems like it does. Also, the iMac keyboard (and speakers) don't simply vanish--they do matter to the space conscious. The iMac takes up a good 17" x 11", plus the keyboard sticks out.
On the software comment, how do I get a TV Tuner/TiVo capability on the iMac without adding hardware?
It seems like a better deal than the iMac FPs with more ports, more standard RAM, etc. The only problem I've found with SONY hardware (other than cheap keyboard plastics) is they run Windows.
<strong>
Look at the <a href="http://www.vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/PCV-W102/feat3_master.html"; target="_blank">picture</a>. You can't flip the keyboard up and use it as you suggest because the keyboard in the "up" position blocks over half the screen.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Want put money on that?
<strong>
How am I exaggerating? I don't think I am if you are talking about the price I listed I find it very reasonable. The Profile 4 is a better computer overall. I don't see how any system right now running a Celeron can cost upwards of 1600$. I have never been a big fan of Celeron. Every machine I have touched with a Celeron hasn't been a good one. Sure they are good chips for what they have to offer but a P3 would be a better option.</strong><hr></blockquote>
How is this for an exaggeration?
"You can get a 100x better Vaio Laptop for that price."
It's clear that you are no fan of celeron but you have not gone much beyond 'all celerons suck' argument.
<strong>
Want put money on that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Have something meaningful to add or just trying to up your post count?
<a href="http://vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/PCV-W102/feat2_master.html"; target="_blank">http://vaio.sony.co.jp/Products/PCV-W102/feat2_master.html</a>;
I can find English links but it's about time you learned to use Google.