I can see where Vinea is coming from (even though I disagree). Best Buy was advertising a tower system this week in our loal newspaper. I don't have all the specs in front of me but generally it was core 2 e6400, 17 in'' monitor, 1 gb ram, 250(500?) gb hard drive, and a dvd burner (don't recall those specs of hand just know it had one). Cost, $1300. If apple were to offera mini tower mac like that, I could see it eat into iMac sales. However I would say if that happens, so be it the market has spoken and it prefers towers.
PS to me the issue isn't how you cripple the minitower but how do you lower the specs on iMac and drop it's price to be more of an entry level machine.
I think the iMac is just fine - don't lower it.
There should either be a higher specced iMac above it - 23" & 30" with conroe & better specs or a mini-tower above the iMac but below the MP.
I think there is room in the range for this.
Depends on SJ wanting to shape the consumer, or be shapped by it I guess??
I can see where Vinea is coming from (even though I disagree). Best Buy was advertising a tower system this week in our loal newspaper. I don't have all the specs in front of me but generally it was core 2 e6400, 17 in'' monitor, 1 gb ram, 250(500?) gb hard drive, and a dvd burner (don't recall those specs of hand just know it had one). Cost, $1300. If apple were to offera mini tower mac like that, I could see it eat into iMac sales. However I would say if that happens, so be it the market has spoken and it prefers towers.
PS to me the issue isn't how you cripple the minitower but how do you lower the specs on iMac and drop it's price to be more of an entry level machine.
From what I've seen so far, Vinea doesn't have a solid stance on this issue. It depends on the post being replied to. I think we can dismiss your Best Buy example, because Apple will never a mini tower so cheap as to hurt the sales of other Macs. I'm not disagreeing with you, but saying that your example shows why Apple would not do it.
I also agree with your observation that the market place prefers mini towers.
An entry level Mac, that's a Mac Mini today. I don't think there's a reason to make the iMac entry level, but keep it at the 'sweet' spot as some call it. The performance that most folks seem to want.
And we don't want to cripple the mini tower. It is a very flexible product and is happens to be available in a broad price and performance range. When people say cripple, I take it to mean making unchangeable downgrades, like fewer PCI slots, fewer RAM slots and fewer hard drives.
I think we can dismiss your Best Buy example, because Apple will never a mini tower so cheap as to hurt the sales of other Macs. I'm not disagreeing with you, but saying that your example shows why Apple would not do it.
Well it will be hard to just ignore pc prices on mini towers unless Apple intoduces features or design that would give additional value to that product. It's inevitable that comparrisons will be made, that's why it seems like Apple goes out of it's way to avoid direct comparissons. However, Mac Pro prices gives me hope that Apple can compete nicely on this front and still make a profit.
I can see where Vinea is coming from (even though I disagree). Best Buy was advertising a tower system this week in our loal newspaper. I don't have all the specs in front of me but generally it was core 2 e6400, 17 in'' monitor, 1 gb ram, 250(500?) gb hard drive, and a dvd burner (don't recall those specs of hand just know it had one). Cost, $1300. If apple were to offera mini tower mac like that, I could see it eat into iMac sales. However I would say if that happens, so be it the market has spoken and it prefers towers.
PS to me the issue isn't how you cripple the minitower but how do you lower the specs on iMac and drop it's price to be more of an entry level machine.
I think that there may be room in the iMac's price to lower it. The price point of the current iMac was set with the first 15" G4 iMac and has not seen a price drop. With the intro of the G5 iMac (i believe) low end got the 17" screen. It has been two years since the 17" iMac hit that price point, since that time the price of 17" LCD pannels have dropped by at least 50% based on retail prices. We are now seeing them down below $200, and 20" monitors are down below $300 on sale when they were up above $1000 when the 20" iMac was introduced.
Well it will be hard to just ignore pc prices on mini towers unless Apple intoduces features or design that would give additional value to that product. It's inevitable that comparrisons will be made, that's why it seems like Apple goes out of it's way to avoid direct comparissons. However, Mac Pro prices gives me hope that Apple can compete nicely on this front and still make a profit.
Actually it looks to me like Apple is doing the comparisons in their latest ads. Hopefully they can keep their products (hardware) competative in price and use the "features" of the OS to help sell "Switchers" to the platform. The problem that I see is that Apple is going to fall into their old habbit of coming late to the game with computer updates when Intel releases new chips, just as Apple was always trailing the Clone makers back in the PowerLogix days. Apple needs to get a computer on the market with a Conroe chip in it, other companies have them available so Apple is already late. They also need to get MBP's out early next month. Apple can't continue with the luxury of taking 3 months to update their product line when the chip updates are released on the within weeks of each other.
Go back a few posts. I described one. The mini tower range is $999 to say about $2499 and even higher depending on configuration. A $1299 mini tower would be configured like an iMac, but of course has no display. That is the price advantage of the iMac at this price point.
Now, please explain. Why can't we lower the performance and equipment on a mini tower to give us a model that is just $300 cheaper? Heck. Just a lower performance graphics card and CPU should be more than enough to do that. If it's still not enough, put in a cheaper HDD and optical drive.
So, using Yonah rather than Conroe (because we don't know the Conroe speeds for the iMac), your $999 tower would be a 1.66 Core Duo, GMA950, 512MB RAM, 80GB disk, airport, bluetooth (because even the core solo mini has this), 3xPCIe slots, 4xDIMMs, keyboard and mouse.
In other words a mini with slots (and desktop HDs). Perhaps 1.83Ghz since the eMac has that but has no bluetooth or airport.
To get to $1299 lets add a vid card...say a 7300GT that we know works for the Mac Pro so there are likely drivers. I've seen this for as low as $150 for the Mac Pro.
Didn't find a 17" WS monitor so we can go with a cheapo 19" WS for $184 or a decent 17" for $130.
So for $1333 you get greater graphics performance and a bigger screen and for $1279 smaller screen. Smaller HD, slower CPU and no iSight (or same CPU, no bluetooth or airport).
I dunno about you but if you have a monitor its a no brainer IMHO. Just being able to slot in the vid card I want (that work with Macs anyway) is worth the small price premium over the 17" iMac when buying a new monitor.
Well it will be hard to just ignore pc prices on mini towers unless Apple intoduces features or design that would give additional value to that product. It's inevitable that comparrisons will be made, that's why it seems like Apple goes out of it's way to avoid direct comparissons. However, Mac Pro prices gives me hope that Apple can compete nicely on this front and still make a profit.
This is a point I brought up in an earlier post. People do notice the difference between PC and Mac prices, whether Apple avoids comparissons or not. That's okay. Apple is not competing side by side with the equivalent model Windows PC. People who want a Mac look at what Macs are available and make a choice.
What determines how attractive the Mac platform is to Windows users is not the price of a specific model. It is the overall prices of Macs that influence potential switchers.
. . . Besides, I think I've been pretty steady in saying I think a $1699 Conroe Mac Pro is likely, a $1499 less likely and a $999 Tower not likely at all.
Vinea
True, you have been saying that, and I've been trying to convince you that all of the above are viable as different configurations of the same basic mini tower.
Behold! I am Predicto! I have come to share my intimate and absolutely, totally, completly, not wrong in any way, knowlege of the future!
Within the next fifteen days, I predict that Apple will update the MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, and Cinema Displays. The MacBook Pro will recieve the Intel Core 2 Duo processor, a new GPU via an MXM slot, and a new enclosure. The MacBook will recieve an new enclosure and a small price cut. The iMac will recieve the Intel Core 2 Duo processor, and an updated enclosure.
The MacBook Pro, MacBook, iMac, and each of the Cinema Displays will also recieve, as an industry first, a new Build To Order option: Wacom Penabled Digitizers! On the MacBook and MacBook Pro, and iMac, this will be a $499 upgrade, and, for the laptops, will consist of a convertable display housing and an industry standard Tablet display. The display housings will NOT rotate and fold over backwards, as so many Windows Based Tablet PCs do. It is a much more clever design. On the Cinema Displays, the upgrades will be a $599 option.
Announced at the same time will be ONE of the Top Secret Features aluded to in the Leopard Preview: Enhanced Natural Input Support. ENIS is a quantum leap beyond the Inkwell technology on which it is based, and has five key features that set it apart from Microsoft's TabletPC platform, including one brand new, innovative Human Interface method, untill now never seen in the consumer market.
The target markets for these new products will be Higher Education and Graphics Professionals.
Expect a Slate style device descended from both the Newton and iPod technologies this spring, aimed squarely at the Primary and Secondary Education markets, with a target price of $499 in the Apple Store for Education.
I have spoken!
<The hat falls off as he runs and dives into the nearby bomb shelter. You distinctly hear the sound of dice rolling.>
So, using Yonah rather than Conroe (because we don't know the Conroe speeds for the iMac), your $999 tower would be a 1.66 Core Duo, GMA950, 512MB RAM, 80GB disk, airport, bluetooth (because even the core solo mini has this), 3xPCIe slots, 4xDIMMs, keyboard and mouse.
Okay, I'm feeling better now - sorry that I lost my temper back there. I was just feeling pretty frustrated. Now that the discussion seems to have moved on, I'll throw in my two cents.
I'd say that you could leave AirPort out of the base configuration for the minitower, since most such machines are far more likely to be connected via Ethernet cables than via wireless. AirPort would, of course, be a BTO option, and installable after the fact via an AirPort card slot. Bluetooth could be left out as well - I'm a little less certain about this, since it is getting more popular to use BT for wireless keyboards, and syncing with a cell phone over BT is handy even with a non-laptop machine. Leaving out these features (as long as they're addable both via BTO and via expansion cards) could help make the iMac seem more attractive, since it would have these things standard.
I'd say that you could leave AirPort out of the base configuration for the minitower, since most such machines are far more likely to be connected via Ethernet cables than via wireless. AirPort would, of course, be a BTO option, and installable after the fact via an AirPort card slot. Bluetooth could be left out as well - I'm a little less certain about this, since it is getting more popular to use BT for wireless keyboards, and syncing with a cell phone over BT is handy even with a non-laptop machine. Leaving out these features (as long as they're addable both via BTO and via expansion cards) could help make the iMac seem more attractive, since it would have these things standard.
Welcome back.
So you think a headless eMac more than an upgraded mini? I dunno why they bothered to include BT with the Core Solo mini so I stuck that in rather than the same CPU. Airport for the same reason. I could see it going the other way though.
Either way I still see it as a better deal than the iMac. I wouldn't miss either the slight CPU bump or the Airport/BT and I see the vid card slot and unbundled monitor as a large gain.
Given that poll (as unscientific as it might be), I'd say a good chunk of folks would prefer this $999 tower over the iMac. Even in a Cube format although you'd lose most of the slots...like all but 1 or 2. The Shuttle SD37P2 in a Mac enclosure would be what I'd like to see...2 x16 PCI slots (8 lanes), 4 mem slots and 1 optical, 1 HD bay. eSATA on the backside.
Eh...I guess I should wish for a pony too while I'm at it.
Either way I still see it as a better deal than the iMac. I wouldn't miss either the slight CPU bump or the Airport/BT and I see the vid card slot and unbundled monitor as a large gain.
Just make it so that the mini-tower + airport card + bluetooth card + iSight + monitor ends up costing slightly more than the iMac, and the iMac becomes a better deal monetarily speaking, at least (the "+ monitor" part need not be a bargain-basement Dell monitor, either - a customer who goes around bargain-shopping for a monitor is, let's face it, not an iMac customer).
Also, making it just a bit harder to add things like AirPort and Bluetooth (you have to go through BTO instead of it already being standard on the machine) will give just that extra bit of appeal to the iMac for the "simple and hassle-free" crowd, which is where the iMac really shines.
Another thing I'd probably do to the iMac is to see if the lowering cost of LCD panels would make it possible to sell the low-end iMac with a 20" at close to the current price, and put a 23" in the high-end model. Right now the 17" iMac seems really unattractive to me - if you're going to be locked into a monitor, it should be a really good monitor, and 17" panels are getting rather commonplace now. The iMac's really well-suited to be an "entertainment center" sort of machine, which you can watch movies on and do the other stuff you can do with Front Row, and the bigger screen you can have for that, the better.
The other thing Apple needs to do is market things like Front Row more. People love this kind of stuff, and lots don't know the iMac can do it. I shouldn't have this sort of conversation with a new Mac owner:
Me: By the way, let me show you something you can do with your Mac. Did your box have a remote control thing in it?
New Mac Owner: Yeah it did, I was wondering what that was for.
Quote:
Given that poll (as unscientific as it might be), I'd say a good chunk of folks would prefer this $999 tower over the iMac.
Well, I'd agree with that. That's the whole reason to introduce this thing.
Just make it so that the mini-tower + airport card + bluetooth card + iSight + monitor ends up costing slightly more than the iMac, and the iMac becomes a better deal monetarily speaking, at least.
Yes, good idea, make it even less comparable and competitive with a Sony Vaio!
Quote:
Also, making it just a bit harder to add things like AirPort and Bluetooth (you have to go through BTO instead of it already being standard on the machine) will give just that extra bit of appeal to the iMac for the "simple and hassle-free" crowd, which is where the iMac really shines.
Uh, here I was thinking that customizability was the very advantage people were looking for. Now you're advocating the opposite?
Quote:
Another thing I'd probably do to the iMac is to see if the lowering cost of LCD panels would make it possible to sell the low-end iMac with a 20" at close to the current price, and put a 23" in the high-end model. Right now the 17" iMac seems really unattractive to me - if you're going to be locked into a monitor, it should be a really good monitor, and 17" panels are getting rather commonplace now. The iMac's really well-suited to be an "entertainment center" sort of machine, which you can watch movies on and do the other stuff you can do with Front Row, and the bigger screen you can have for that, the better.
I agree that that's a likely move, perhaps by the next revision or two. However, I'd rather see them keep a low-end 17-inch model.
The other thing Apple needs to do is market things like Front Row more. People love this kind of stuff, and lots don't know the iMac can do it. I shouldn't have this sort of conversation with a new Mac owner:
Me: By the way, let me show you something you can do with your Mac. Did your box have a remote control thing in it?
New Mac Owner: Yeah it did, I was wondering what that was for.
Well, I'd agree with that. That's the whole reason to introduce this thing.
Not only should they start heavily pushing the iApps and Front Row, they should purchase Elgato to complete them.
Comments
Snoop,
I can see where Vinea is coming from (even though I disagree). Best Buy was advertising a tower system this week in our loal newspaper. I don't have all the specs in front of me but generally it was core 2 e6400, 17 in'' monitor, 1 gb ram, 250(500?) gb hard drive, and a dvd burner (don't recall those specs of hand just know it had one). Cost, $1300. If apple were to offera mini tower mac like that, I could see it eat into iMac sales. However I would say if that happens, so be it the market has spoken and it prefers towers.
PS to me the issue isn't how you cripple the minitower but how do you lower the specs on iMac and drop it's price to be more of an entry level machine.
I think the iMac is just fine - don't lower it.
There should either be a higher specced iMac above it - 23" & 30" with conroe & better specs or a mini-tower above the iMac but below the MP.
I think there is room in the range for this.
Depends on SJ wanting to shape the consumer, or be shapped by it I guess??
Snoop,
I can see where Vinea is coming from (even though I disagree). Best Buy was advertising a tower system this week in our loal newspaper. I don't have all the specs in front of me but generally it was core 2 e6400, 17 in'' monitor, 1 gb ram, 250(500?) gb hard drive, and a dvd burner (don't recall those specs of hand just know it had one). Cost, $1300. If apple were to offera mini tower mac like that, I could see it eat into iMac sales. However I would say if that happens, so be it the market has spoken and it prefers towers.
PS to me the issue isn't how you cripple the minitower but how do you lower the specs on iMac and drop it's price to be more of an entry level machine.
From what I've seen so far, Vinea doesn't have a solid stance on this issue. It depends on the post being replied to. I think we can dismiss your Best Buy example, because Apple will never a mini tower so cheap as to hurt the sales of other Macs. I'm not disagreeing with you, but saying that your example shows why Apple would not do it.
I also agree with your observation that the market place prefers mini towers.
An entry level Mac, that's a Mac Mini today. I don't think there's a reason to make the iMac entry level, but keep it at the 'sweet' spot as some call it. The performance that most folks seem to want.
And we don't want to cripple the mini tower. It is a very flexible product and is happens to be available in a broad price and performance range. When people say cripple, I take it to mean making unchangeable downgrades, like fewer PCI slots, fewer RAM slots and fewer hard drives.
I think we can dismiss your Best Buy example, because Apple will never a mini tower so cheap as to hurt the sales of other Macs. I'm not disagreeing with you, but saying that your example shows why Apple would not do it.
Well it will be hard to just ignore pc prices on mini towers unless Apple intoduces features or design that would give additional value to that product. It's inevitable that comparrisons will be made, that's why it seems like Apple goes out of it's way to avoid direct comparissons. However, Mac Pro prices gives me hope that Apple can compete nicely on this front and still make a profit.
Snoop,
I can see where Vinea is coming from (even though I disagree). Best Buy was advertising a tower system this week in our loal newspaper. I don't have all the specs in front of me but generally it was core 2 e6400, 17 in'' monitor, 1 gb ram, 250(500?) gb hard drive, and a dvd burner (don't recall those specs of hand just know it had one). Cost, $1300. If apple were to offera mini tower mac like that, I could see it eat into iMac sales. However I would say if that happens, so be it the market has spoken and it prefers towers.
PS to me the issue isn't how you cripple the minitower but how do you lower the specs on iMac and drop it's price to be more of an entry level machine.
I think that there may be room in the iMac's price to lower it. The price point of the current iMac was set with the first 15" G4 iMac and has not seen a price drop. With the intro of the G5 iMac (i believe) low end got the 17" screen. It has been two years since the 17" iMac hit that price point, since that time the price of 17" LCD pannels have dropped by at least 50% based on retail prices. We are now seeing them down below $200, and 20" monitors are down below $300 on sale when they were up above $1000 when the 20" iMac was introduced.
A 20" iMac doesn't offer that much over my 17" MBP save a bigger HDD
that's an interesting angle; maybe the imac should get decapitated (!) for cannibalizing the mbp sales?
Well it will be hard to just ignore pc prices on mini towers unless Apple intoduces features or design that would give additional value to that product. It's inevitable that comparrisons will be made, that's why it seems like Apple goes out of it's way to avoid direct comparissons. However, Mac Pro prices gives me hope that Apple can compete nicely on this front and still make a profit.
Actually it looks to me like Apple is doing the comparisons in their latest ads. Hopefully they can keep their products (hardware) competative in price and use the "features" of the OS to help sell "Switchers" to the platform. The problem that I see is that Apple is going to fall into their old habbit of coming late to the game with computer updates when Intel releases new chips, just as Apple was always trailing the Clone makers back in the PowerLogix days. Apple needs to get a computer on the market with a Conroe chip in it, other companies have them available so Apple is already late. They also need to get MBP's out early next month. Apple can't continue with the luxury of taking 3 months to update their product line when the chip updates are released on the within weeks of each other.
Go back a few posts. I described one. The mini tower range is $999 to say about $2499 and even higher depending on configuration. A $1299 mini tower would be configured like an iMac, but of course has no display. That is the price advantage of the iMac at this price point.
Now, please explain. Why can't we lower the performance and equipment on a mini tower to give us a model that is just $300 cheaper? Heck. Just a lower performance graphics card and CPU should be more than enough to do that. If it's still not enough, put in a cheaper HDD and optical drive.
So, using Yonah rather than Conroe (because we don't know the Conroe speeds for the iMac), your $999 tower would be a 1.66 Core Duo, GMA950, 512MB RAM, 80GB disk, airport, bluetooth (because even the core solo mini has this), 3xPCIe slots, 4xDIMMs, keyboard and mouse.
In other words a mini with slots (and desktop HDs). Perhaps 1.83Ghz since the eMac has that but has no bluetooth or airport.
To get to $1299 lets add a vid card...say a 7300GT that we know works for the Mac Pro so there are likely drivers. I've seen this for as low as $150 for the Mac Pro.
Didn't find a 17" WS monitor so we can go with a cheapo 19" WS for $184 or a decent 17" for $130.
So for $1333 you get greater graphics performance and a bigger screen and for $1279 smaller screen. Smaller HD, slower CPU and no iSight (or same CPU, no bluetooth or airport).
I dunno about you but if you have a monitor its a no brainer IMHO. Just being able to slot in the vid card I want (that work with Macs anyway) is worth the small price premium over the 17" iMac when buying a new monitor.
Vinea
From what I've seen so far, Vinea doesn't have a solid stance on this issue. It depends on the post being replied to.
I'm not being wishy washy...I'm responding to the consumer.
Besides, I think I've been pretty steady in saying I think a $1699 Conroe Mac Pro is likely, a $1499 less likely and a $999 Tower not likely at all.
Vinea
from http://macprocube.com/
Ain't happening anytime soon. That and a tablet. That's not happening anytime soon either.
I'll be pleasantly surprised to be wrong on either count.
Vinea
Well it will be hard to just ignore pc prices on mini towers unless Apple intoduces features or design that would give additional value to that product. It's inevitable that comparrisons will be made, that's why it seems like Apple goes out of it's way to avoid direct comparissons. However, Mac Pro prices gives me hope that Apple can compete nicely on this front and still make a profit.
This is a point I brought up in an earlier post. People do notice the difference between PC and Mac prices, whether Apple avoids comparissons or not. That's okay. Apple is not competing side by side with the equivalent model Windows PC. People who want a Mac look at what Macs are available and make a choice.
What determines how attractive the Mac platform is to Windows users is not the price of a specific model. It is the overall prices of Macs that influence potential switchers.
. . . Besides, I think I've been pretty steady in saying I think a $1699 Conroe Mac Pro is likely, a $1499 less likely and a $999 Tower not likely at all.
Vinea
True, you have been saying that, and I've been trying to convince you that all of the above are viable as different configurations of the same basic mini tower.
Behold! I am Predicto! I have come to share my intimate and absolutely, totally, completly, not wrong in any way, knowlege of the future!
Within the next fifteen days, I predict that Apple will update the MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, and Cinema Displays. The MacBook Pro will recieve the Intel Core 2 Duo processor, a new GPU via an MXM slot, and a new enclosure. The MacBook will recieve an new enclosure and a small price cut. The iMac will recieve the Intel Core 2 Duo processor, and an updated enclosure.
The MacBook Pro, MacBook, iMac, and each of the Cinema Displays will also recieve, as an industry first, a new Build To Order option: Wacom Penabled Digitizers! On the MacBook and MacBook Pro, and iMac, this will be a $499 upgrade, and, for the laptops, will consist of a convertable display housing and an industry standard Tablet display. The display housings will NOT rotate and fold over backwards, as so many Windows Based Tablet PCs do. It is a much more clever design. On the Cinema Displays, the upgrades will be a $599 option.
Announced at the same time will be ONE of the Top Secret Features aluded to in the Leopard Preview: Enhanced Natural Input Support. ENIS is a quantum leap beyond the Inkwell technology on which it is based, and has five key features that set it apart from Microsoft's TabletPC platform, including one brand new, innovative Human Interface method, untill now never seen in the consumer market.
The target markets for these new products will be Higher Education and Graphics Professionals.
Expect a Slate style device descended from both the Newton and iPod technologies this spring, aimed squarely at the Primary and Secondary Education markets, with a target price of $499 in the Apple Store for Education.
I have spoken!
<The hat falls off as he runs and dives into the nearby bomb shelter. You distinctly hear the sound of dice rolling.>
So, using Yonah rather than Conroe (because we don't know the Conroe speeds for the iMac), your $999 tower would be a 1.66 Core Duo, GMA950, 512MB RAM, 80GB disk, airport, bluetooth (because even the core solo mini has this), 3xPCIe slots, 4xDIMMs, keyboard and mouse.
Okay, I'm feeling better now - sorry that I lost my temper back there. I was just feeling pretty frustrated. Now that the discussion seems to have moved on, I'll throw in my two cents.
I'd say that you could leave AirPort out of the base configuration for the minitower, since most such machines are far more likely to be connected via Ethernet cables than via wireless. AirPort would, of course, be a BTO option, and installable after the fact via an AirPort card slot. Bluetooth could be left out as well - I'm a little less certain about this, since it is getting more popular to use BT for wireless keyboards, and syncing with a cell phone over BT is handy even with a non-laptop machine. Leaving out these features (as long as they're addable both via BTO and via expansion cards) could help make the iMac seem more attractive, since it would have these things standard.
I'd say that you could leave AirPort out of the base configuration for the minitower, since most such machines are far more likely to be connected via Ethernet cables than via wireless. AirPort would, of course, be a BTO option, and installable after the fact via an AirPort card slot. Bluetooth could be left out as well - I'm a little less certain about this, since it is getting more popular to use BT for wireless keyboards, and syncing with a cell phone over BT is handy even with a non-laptop machine. Leaving out these features (as long as they're addable both via BTO and via expansion cards) could help make the iMac seem more attractive, since it would have these things standard.
Welcome back.
So you think a headless eMac more than an upgraded mini? I dunno why they bothered to include BT with the Core Solo mini so I stuck that in rather than the same CPU. Airport for the same reason. I could see it going the other way though.
Either way I still see it as a better deal than the iMac. I wouldn't miss either the slight CPU bump or the Airport/BT and I see the vid card slot and unbundled monitor as a large gain.
Given that poll (as unscientific as it might be), I'd say a good chunk of folks would prefer this $999 tower over the iMac. Even in a Cube format although you'd lose most of the slots...like all but 1 or 2. The Shuttle SD37P2 in a Mac enclosure would be what I'd like to see...2 x16 PCI slots (8 lanes), 4 mem slots and 1 optical, 1 HD bay. eSATA on the backside.
Eh...I guess I should wish for a pony too while I'm at it.
Vinea
Truth be told this is what I want:
from http://macprocube.com/
Ain't happening anytime soon. That and a tablet. That's not happening anytime soon either.
I'll be pleasantly surprised to be wrong on either count.
Vinea
That is awesome.
Either way I still see it as a better deal than the iMac. I wouldn't miss either the slight CPU bump or the Airport/BT and I see the vid card slot and unbundled monitor as a large gain.
Just make it so that the mini-tower + airport card + bluetooth card + iSight + monitor ends up costing slightly more than the iMac, and the iMac becomes a better deal monetarily speaking, at least (the "+ monitor" part need not be a bargain-basement Dell monitor, either - a customer who goes around bargain-shopping for a monitor is, let's face it, not an iMac customer).
Also, making it just a bit harder to add things like AirPort and Bluetooth (you have to go through BTO instead of it already being standard on the machine) will give just that extra bit of appeal to the iMac for the "simple and hassle-free" crowd, which is where the iMac really shines.
Another thing I'd probably do to the iMac is to see if the lowering cost of LCD panels would make it possible to sell the low-end iMac with a 20" at close to the current price, and put a 23" in the high-end model. Right now the 17" iMac seems really unattractive to me - if you're going to be locked into a monitor, it should be a really good monitor, and 17" panels are getting rather commonplace now. The iMac's really well-suited to be an "entertainment center" sort of machine, which you can watch movies on and do the other stuff you can do with Front Row, and the bigger screen you can have for that, the better.
The other thing Apple needs to do is market things like Front Row more. People love this kind of stuff, and lots don't know the iMac can do it. I shouldn't have this sort of conversation with a new Mac owner:
Me: By the way, let me show you something you can do with your Mac. Did your box have a remote control thing in it?
New Mac Owner: Yeah it did, I was wondering what that was for.
Given that poll (as unscientific as it might be), I'd say a good chunk of folks would prefer this $999 tower over the iMac.
Well, I'd agree with that. That's the whole reason to introduce this thing.
Just make it so that the mini-tower + airport card + bluetooth card + iSight + monitor ends up costing slightly more than the iMac, and the iMac becomes a better deal monetarily speaking, at least.
Yes, good idea, make it even less comparable and competitive with a Sony Vaio!
Also, making it just a bit harder to add things like AirPort and Bluetooth (you have to go through BTO instead of it already being standard on the machine) will give just that extra bit of appeal to the iMac for the "simple and hassle-free" crowd, which is where the iMac really shines.
Uh, here I was thinking that customizability was the very advantage people were looking for. Now you're advocating the opposite?
Another thing I'd probably do to the iMac is to see if the lowering cost of LCD panels would make it possible to sell the low-end iMac with a 20" at close to the current price, and put a 23" in the high-end model. Right now the 17" iMac seems really unattractive to me - if you're going to be locked into a monitor, it should be a really good monitor, and 17" panels are getting rather commonplace now. The iMac's really well-suited to be an "entertainment center" sort of machine, which you can watch movies on and do the other stuff you can do with Front Row, and the bigger screen you can have for that, the better.
I agree that that's a likely move, perhaps by the next revision or two. However, I'd rather see them keep a low-end 17-inch model.
Uh, here I was thinking that customizability was the very advantage people were looking for. Now you're advocating the opposite?
Uh, as long as you have the option to add AirPort and Bluetooth if you actually need them, that's customizable.
Uh, as long as you have the option to add AirPort and Bluetooth if you actually need them, that's customizable.
You specifically said to make it harder than in the iMac. That goes completely counter to the very purpose.
The other thing Apple needs to do is market things like Front Row more. People love this kind of stuff, and lots don't know the iMac can do it. I shouldn't have this sort of conversation with a new Mac owner:
Me: By the way, let me show you something you can do with your Mac. Did your box have a remote control thing in it?
New Mac Owner: Yeah it did, I was wondering what that was for.
Well, I'd agree with that. That's the whole reason to introduce this thing.
Not only should they start heavily pushing the iApps and Front Row, they should purchase Elgato to complete them.