23" ACD - Would I be disappointed

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 46
    messiahmessiah Posts: 1,689member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gwoodpecker


    Nope, that would be false advertising.



    It's not false advertising if they show both numbers.
  • Reply 22 of 46
    messiahmessiah Posts: 1,689member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by meelash


    I don't know where you live, but your stories sound like crap to me. Exchanging under-warranty monitors with refurbished units? That's criminal and Apple definitely doesn't do it.



    Well, I must be mistaken. Perhaps I imagined the whole thing?
  • Reply 23 of 46
    messiahmessiah Posts: 1,689member
    Lot of fanboys out tonight, eh?
  • Reply 24 of 46
    messiahmessiah Posts: 1,689member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mordak


    I just got an apple 23"... should I turn it off at night? because when it "goes to sleep" the LCD still glows a dark grey



    It wouldn't do any harm to switch it off, it gives the backlight a bit of a rest.
  • Reply 25 of 46
    yoseyose Posts: 62member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Messiah


    Well, I must be mistaken. Perhaps I imagined the whole thing?



    Laugh
  • Reply 26 of 46
    messiahmessiah Posts: 1,689member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by meelash


    I don't know where you live, but your stories sound like crap to me. Exchanging under-warranty monitors with refurbished units? That's criminal and Apple definitely doesn't do it.



    From the Apple Computer, Inc. One (1) Year Limited Warranty ? Worldwide



    From the first paragraph "Warranty Coverage"



    "If a hardware defect arises and a valid claim is received within the Warranty Period, at its option, Apple will either (1) repair the hardware defect at no charge, using new or refurbished replacement parts, or (2) exchange the product with a product that is new or which has been manufactured from new or servicable used parts and is at least functionally equivalent to the original product, or (3) refund the purchase price of the product."



    "at its option" means that Apple (not the consumer) decides which of the three options will be taken.



    "exchange the product with a product that is new or which has been manufactured from new or servicable used parts" means you get a second hand display.



    So it appears it's not criminal, and yes Apple does do it.



    Do my stories still sound like crap to you?
  • Reply 27 of 46
    messiahmessiah Posts: 1,689member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iMacfan


    OK, once again, thanks to all for your replies, but I'm confused. An Apple store assistant here in London said that I could exchange it for a dead pixel at the store, even if bought online. But I'm not convinced.



    Well I'm pleased to see that some people at Apple are starting to use their common sense. This can only be a good thing.



    The official word (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=22194) from Apple is:



    "With the millions of subpixels on a display, it is quite possible to have a low number of faulty transistors on an LCD. Therefore, a certain number of subpixel anomalies is considered acceptable. Rejecting all but perfect LCD panels would significantly increase the retail price for products using LCD displays."



    Notice that it is Apple that decides what is 'acceptable' not the consumer.



    If you are in the London area, my advice (as always) is to purchase your Apple equipment from the John Lewis Partnership who offer a no questions asked 30 day money back guarantee. If you are unsatisfied with your purchase, for any reason, you can take it back for a full refund.



    This is why I purchase all my Apple equipment from John Lewis whenever possible.
  • Reply 28 of 46
    cam'roncam'ron Posts: 503member
    There is always a chance of getting a refurb replacement...from any manufacturer. I work for Dell and their policy on replacing monitors within 21 days is a new replacement, after that it is refurbed. I'm sure policy is similar with Apple. But, Apple should really beef up that warranty. At least be competitive.



    As for choosing between an ACD or Dell monitor, why not look at other (better solutions). I have seen monitors from Acer and Samsung with higher resolutions at better/similar prices to the Dell ones. I would provide a good site, but it is Canadian and not very helpful to someone in the UK. But, I did see a 19" widescreen Samsung with DVI output and HDCP support (meaning it will support HD res for Blu-ray and HD-DVD) for under $275 CAD. And I have personally seen the Acer 19" wide in action and it is solid bang for buck.
  • Reply 29 of 46
    meelashmeelash Posts: 1,045member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Messiah


    From the Apple Computer, Inc. One (1) Year Limited Warranty ? Worldwide



    From the first paragraph "Warranty Coverage"



    "If a hardware defect arises and a valid claim is received within the Warranty Period, at its option, Apple will either (1) repair the hardware defect at no charge, using new or refurbished replacement parts, or (2) exchange the product with a product that is new or which has been manufactured from new or servicable used parts and is at least functionally equivalent to the original product, or (3) refund the purchase price of the product."



    "at its option" means that Apple (not the consumer) decides which of the three options will be taken.



    "exchange the product with a product that is new or which has been manufactured from new or servicable used parts" means you get a second hand display.



    So it appears it's not criminal, and yes Apple does do it.



    Do my stories still sound like crap to you?



    You have GOT to be joking...



    Do you know how to read? That warranty states in "plain speak" that you will get a repaired or new item or a full refund at Apple's option. They will not simply pick up a used item and send that to you, which is what your "story" is- that you got a damaged, second-hand display. May your new display possibly contain refurbished parts? Yes. Will you be able to tell that it's not new? No.



    Let's examine the sentence you drew your conclusions from. The first part is obvious: "exchange the product with a product that is NEW." The second part: "exchange the product with a product which has been MANUFACTURED FROM new or serviceable used parts." i.e. A NEW monitor BUILT FROM both new and used parts.



    You're honestly trying to tell us, (many of whom have had our own experiences, good and bad, with Apple service) that as a replacement for a brand-new display, under warranty, they sent you a scratched, dented, incorrectly reassembled second-hand unit? No, that, my friend, is B.S.
  • Reply 30 of 46
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by meelash


    You have GOT to be joking...



    Do you know how to read? That warranty states in "plain speak" that you will get a repaired or new item or a full refund at Apple's option. They will not simply pick up a used item and send that to you, which is what your "story" is- that you got a damaged, second-hand display. May your new display possibly contain refurbished parts? Yes. Will you be able to tell that it's not new? No.



    Let's examine the sentence you drew your conclusions from. The first part is obvious: "exchange the product with a product that is NEW." The second part: "exchange the product with a product which has been MANUFACTURED FROM new or serviceable used parts." i.e. A NEW monitor BUILT FROM both new and used parts.



    You're honestly trying to tell us, (many of whom have had our own experiences, good and bad, with Apple service) that as a replacement for a brand-new display, under warranty, they sent you a scratched, dented, incorrectly reassembled second-hand unit? No, that, my friend, is B.S.



    (sorry for the long post below)



    Now wait a minute, meelash. We all agree that a "refurbished" product does not mean a new one, but rather one that has been repaired entirely or partially with new parts. Or they put together a correctly functioning unit out of used parts. The shell of a display is a replaceable part like any other part of any other equipment. As long as the refurbished display is working according to the original specs of the product you bought, then Apple has exactly done what they promised in their warranty. Mind you, there's a lot that can go wrong between the display leaving your house, getting into the repair center, getting repaired and being sent back to you.



    The key question is - regardless of whether new or refurbished products are concerned - if you have to accept a faulty or non-working new or replacement product:

    (A) If it's not working, it's a no-brainer: don't accept the replacement and ask for another product or repair.

    (B) If it's not working according to the original specs, e.g. the brightness is too low at max. setting or the panel falls out of the bezel or the buttons are not working, there is no discussion there, either: you don't have to accept that replacement, and the manufacturer has to take it back and give you another one / repair the same one again (at their descretion), until the product works like it should.

    (C) If the product is not working because it came to your door damaged (in a damaged box or with a huge dent in the display frame), it gets trickier: then either UPS or FedEx or whoever brought you the parcel OR the manufacturer can be held liable for the damage. Don't accept it and get a lawyer.

    (D) If the product is working as it should, but there are cosmetical damages that don't affect the functionality of the display in any way, you have to look at the manufacturer's sales policy / warranty. Usually, they tell you that cosmetical damages are no reason for a refund or second replacement (because they gave you a "refurbished" replacement product). Maybe get a lawyer, too!

    (E) If they sell you a new display and you get a defective new or a refurbished one, this is not acceptable. Insist on getting a brand new one.



    So all in all, it's not completely out of the world that Messiah got a display that was somehow damaged. He says the replacement is faulty and Apple will say it's only cosmetics. See (D) or (E) above. If you have bad karma, also two damaged display replacements are entirely possible.



    The key question is whether you have to accept that or not and how you react to things like this happening. You have to react quickly when this happens, though, otherwise you accept the replacement. Maybe Messiah didn't react correctly when he got his display?



    In my personal experience, I have always bought new displays (not only from Apple) and after a repair, the replacement units were all refurbished ones (new parts inside and/or outside). Usually, after the third repair of any Apple product, they give you a brand new one if you insist enough, be it a laptop or desktop computer or any other part.



    (edited: spelling)
  • Reply 31 of 46
    I'm at a previous generation - a 1.5 15" PB with the 23" display. The only error I made was not buying them at the same time because the display would have been under the PB's Apple Care warranty. If you get the MB be sure to get the AppleCare - it does come in handy.



    As for the 23", I love it. So much so that I tend to turn my nose up at the 20" iMac at home. Now I just want to get my little one man business up to where I can get the 30".



    My 23" has been perfect and no problems for the entire time I have used it. The large screen has served me well in the office where I can have a handful of windows open at the same time. I would hate to go back to anything smaller for working at the office. For simple home use the 20" iMac works fine, but I miss the 23"! Spoils you totally.
  • Reply 32 of 46
    meelashmeelash Posts: 1,045member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gwoodpecker


    (sorry for the long post below)



    Now wait ..... computer or any other part.



    (edited: spelling)



    This all seems reasonable to me...
  • Reply 33 of 46
    imacfanimacfan Posts: 444member
    Thanks once again for the replies - I'm swinging towards the Dell, purely because of the slightly lower price, more inputs and it seems like swapping it will be slightly less of a hassle if it isn't pixel perfect.



    The only thing is - how do I get a decent price on it in the UK - whereas it's only about $700 in the USA, it's over 600 pounds here - about 50% more, even taking taxes into account.



    David
  • Reply 34 of 46
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iMacfan


    Thanks once again for the replies - I'm swinging towards the Dell, purely because of the slightly lower price, more inputs and it seems like swapping it will be slightly less of a hassle if it isn't pixel perfect.



    The only thing is - how do I get a decent price on it in the UK - whereas it's only about $700 in the USA, it's over 600 pounds here - about 50% more, even taking taxes into account.



    David





    http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatal..._Monitors.html



    I ordered my screen from these people. I've also had to return stuff to them, and they seem to be OK.



    One thing though, I have had the Dell 24" for a few weeks, and it doesn't have perfect colour reproduction when connected with the DVI cable, though strangely when I connected with VGA, the banding went away, but it couldn't sync perfectly to the VGA clock, so some areas of the screen were slightly fuzzy. - i went back to DVI and live with the minor banding. This was a major problem on the early 2407's revision 00 and has been 80% fixed, but be aware that it is still not perfect.



    I wouldn't buy this screen for any serious kind of Photoshop work, but for most other uses its fine.
  • Reply 35 of 46
    drnatdrnat Posts: 142member
    I am borrowing a 24" Dell from work for a few days - have to say that I am not that impressed with the colour reproduction & the test isn't that sharp.



    Went in to the apple store today to compare it with their 23" display & the colours/text were much better IMHO.



    I do like the card reader on the side of the dell though!
  • Reply 36 of 46
    brianusbrianus Posts: 160member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drnat


    I am borrowing a 24" Dell from work for a few days - have to say that I am not that impressed with the colour reproduction & the test isn't that sharp.



    Went in to the apple store today to compare it with their 23" display & the colours/text were much better IMHO.



    I do like the card reader on the side of the dell though!



    Sorry to be an asshat, but what exactly does that mean, about the "color reproduction" and "non-sharp" "test"? I often hear terms like this bandied about by pros in discussing monitors, I want to know if this is the kind of thing only people in certain professions are going to notice or if it's something presenting a serious usability problem to any end user.



    And what's "banding", while we're on the subject?
  • Reply 37 of 46
    drnatdrnat Posts: 142member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brianus


    Sorry to be an asshat, but what exactly does that mean, about the "color reproduction" and "non-sharp" "test"? I often hear terms like this bandied about by pros in discussing monitors, I want to know if this is the kind of thing only people in certain professions are going to notice or if it's something presenting a serious usability problem to any end user.



    And what's "banding", while we're on the subject?



    I am not a pro - just a hobbyinst who enjoys photography.



    I may not be using the terms correctly but...



    Colour reproduction - how true the colour representation is. Not as good as the 23" ACD IMH



    Test was a typo - it should be text - sorry. By sharp I meant that the edges of the teext are a bit fuzzy.



    I didn't mention banding, so can't help you there.



    The above IS subjective & it is certainly a very usable monitor & I do like having the card reader incorporated!
  • Reply 38 of 46
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gwoodpecker


    Now wait a minute, meelash. We all agree that a "refurbished" product does not mean a new one, but rather one that has been repaired entirely or partially with new parts.



    I work at a company that 'refurbishes' computer parts.



    I will never buy a refurbished product where the defects aren't obvious. Monitors you'll probably be OK with but also realize that if the thing's been used for 4 years, that's 4 fewer years of life for you (a big deal with LCDs).



    When buying monitors, I'd buy local and I'd buy NEW only. Dead pixels and defects are a lot easier to deal with if you can just drive it back to the store for an exchange.
  • Reply 39 of 46
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brianus




    And what's "banding", while we're on the subject?



    Banding is causes by a monitor not being able to display the whole range of 16777216 colours you get when you are in 'millions' or 32 bit mode.



    It is most easily seen when you are in a graphics program, and create a large rectangle and set the fill to a gradient between 2 colours. Because the monitor can't physically display every colour, some adjecent colours are rendered as the same, so for example, colours 16777100 through to 16777216 are all displayed as the same colour instead of the subtle differences the eye can distinguish, so you end up with definate stripes across the screen when you should see a smooth transition - as you would on a CRT, which is one of the reasons pros still use CRT's.



    An awful lot of cheap, older, and some highend monitors use 6 bit panels which means that they can only display 18 (6 bit *3 colors) bits of colours, so the monitor only shows 262144 colours out of the possible 16 million, which although isn't as bad as the numbers suggest, can look awful in some situations.
  • Reply 40 of 46
    coolmaccoolmac Posts: 259member
    barefeats.com says the new spec 23" Cinema Display is an improvement over the previous version:

    August 18th, 2006 -- New Apple 23" Cinema impresses. We ordered a new 23" Cinema display for our Mac Pro 3GHz. This new model (numbers starting with 2A6281 or higher) is brighter with better contrast than the previous model. Best of all, the pink hue on grey screens is gone.
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