G-News and kiu77, please keep the personal attacks off the boards. Feel free to go at it via email or PM, but everyone here doesn't need to read your fighting.
Back to the topic. I spent a short time with a dual 1.25 GHz PowerMac yesterday afternoon. It certainly wasn't quiet, but not any louder than I would expect a tower to be. The designer using the machine has is set right beside his display, and with the layout of his work area, it's literally a foot away from him. To him, it's no louder than his old G4 400. (this is in OSX)
<strong>Back to the topic. I spent a short time with a dual 1.25 GHz PowerMac yesterday afternoon. It certainly wasn't quiet, but not any louder than I would expect a tower to be. The designer using the machine has is set right beside his display, and with the layout of his work area, it's literally a foot away from him. To him, it's no louder than his old G4 400. (this is in OSX)
Yes, when i used them in OS X the noise was more than acceptable. I would even say it was good in comparison to some PCs. The problem is when you boot into OS 9. Sometimes when I would wake from sleep in OS 9 or restart, it would rev up the fan to insane noise levels (literally comparable to a vacuum cleaner, no exaggeration) and slowly rev back down only to start up again after 10 seconds or so. It would do this for half an hour if I let it. It's definitely not the normal complaint about noise. Next time I replicate it, I'll give you my telephone number and you can listen to it.
Because Apple is ignorant to this problem and does only cosmetic changes (the little quieter in OS9)
and
the community mostly behaves like "all is ok what is called a mac"
I now have decided to switch.
But from Apple to PC
where I can get bad boxes for about half the price.
This after buying 18 Macs personally and more than 100 for other people.
So this will cost Apple some $ in the future.
I just keep my iBook becaus it ist worth its price.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quit cold turkey or your screwed. 'just keep my iBook...' WHATEVER! go get a nice XP laptop that has quadruple the specs for one quarter the price, thats how it works right?
PHhhhhht! You'll be begging to scroll through someones iTunes collection in 1 week.
Just to add one last comment before getting back on topic: I said you make an impression of a whiny bitch, I didn't say you ARE a whiny bitch. Also my social skills are fine and I seriously doubt an internet message board is an appropriate way to judge that for someone you don't know in the least.
As for the dustbuster noise under OS 9.
I have so far noticed two things (assuming you DON'T have a 820-1308 SN# board):
Restarting into OS 9 from OS X will cause the fans to go postal. Shutting down in OS X and cold booting into OS 9 does seem to circumwent the problem.
Also if the machine is "dustbusting" open it up and wait until the fans are low and stay low, then close it again. From my experience, opening it will often fix the problem within ~10 seconds.
My guess is that there's a bug in the way OS9 talks to the thermal sensor on the logic board.
Maybe I'll have to run OS 9 for a longer period of time to see if the problem also arises after a certain period of time in use.
Then again OS X really is the better OS for that dual machine. (I know, I know some of you can't use OS X for this and that reason, but I just need to say it, because I think there are still people out there who could switch any day but are simply afraid to do so).
<strong>Oh, of course. Apple has ceased development on OS 9. </strong><hr></blockquote>Well, of course. Didn't you get the memo? Mac OS 9 is dead.
It's precicely THIS kind of problem why Apple has said that next year's Macs will not boot into OS9. The developers simply shouldn't be wasting their resources on updating and patching an old OS to work with new hardware. That will be the final nail in the coffin.
I don't want to derail this topic into a debate about the OSX-only decision Apple made, but... [quote]Originally posted by tonton:
<strong>It seems Apple made a huge mistake in trusting developers to back their product to the point that suppliers will be forced to not upgrade until developers catch up.</strong><hr></blockquote>Unfortunately, Apple *MUST* make this move in order to get developers like Quark to get off their lazy asses and start writing for OSX. Until this announcement, Quark was apparently not motivated in the least to get any kind of native software for Mac OS X. The last estimate I recall hearing for Quark for X was late 2003/early 2004.
Apple was once again playing the chicken and the egg game -- developers won't move to X while 9 is still available, but Apple can't really drop 9 until apps are availably for X. Someone has to break out and make the first step. It's just like when Apple chose to ship Mac OS X by default on all Macs 10 months ago. Apple had to make the first step to give developers a good reason to code native. Since *most* products will be native by 2003, this is a fine move. Quark is the only third party I've seen lagging so bad.
[quote]<strong>All Microsoft or someone malicious has to do is to buy Quark and Adobe, cease development for OS X, and Apple has lost the entire publishing market</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, that's just silly. What does that have anythnig to do with not having Quark native? Whether they write for OS9 or OSX, your gloom and doom prediction would kill *any* use of its product. You do realize that Adobe has been shipping OSX-native software for quite some time now, right?
<strong>I just got 2 new 1.25GHz Duals and they will be booting OS 9 for now until Quark and Microsoft get off their keister and deliver some native software. But every once in a while (8-10 times an hour) they make this blowing noise so loud, people from many cubes away come to see that the fuss is about. I didn't think this was normal until I set up the other one exactly the same way and it does the same thing.
What the hell? The people these things are going to cannot work like this. I've set up every manner of powermac and none have ever made as much noise. Maybe if I got 50 of them together. Is this normal?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've read elsewhere that there is no system control for those fans in OS 9 so they are always postal in 9 but fine in OS X. How about switching to InDesign 2. All of Microsoft's software is already ported to OS X. You didn't know that?
There's no reason why you would want to use OE anyway. It's just a mail app like all the others, plus a few hundred security holes you can do without. I have never used that app, ever since I started with the internet about 5 years ago.
People people. Our company uses Outlook Exchange servers. It's different that outlook express that can only do POP and maybe IMAP mail. Outlook 2001 does not do either POP or IMAP, it exclusively does Exchange email. It is very important to 90% of corporate users. And it sucks under Classic if you must ask. Entourage handles it OK if you turn IMAP support on under the Exchange server but it wont see you contacts, calendar and public folders. A pity Microsoft hasn't addressed this yet.
We migrated a few users to OS 10.2 and we use Outlook 2001 and Quark running in classic. What issues are you having? We're not having any issues at all.
Try that, if not, put the CPU under the user's desk and tell the primadonna's either deal with the noise or you can give them a nice quiet bondi iMac. That seem to shut my complaining users up.
Quark doesn't have many issues in Classic except for the fact that to share fonts with Classic apps and OS X apps is a bitch, and we'd need to get new software for that ( I think Font Reserve handles OS 9 and OS X font management in one single app), but with outlook 2001 we regularly have frozen outlook sessions after a wake from sleep, when it crashes it usually brings down Classic and along with any other classic apps. Why go to OS X when I can avoid all these issues by booting into OS 9? Why can't Microsoft get off its ass and get us native Outlook Exchange app? I know Quark will be on board in early 2003 with version 6, and i appreciate that but what reason does MS have to delay? Just to be jerks?
Comments
@ outsider and @others
Excuse me for getting in this train of flames.
I'll stop it for my person.
Back to the topic. I spent a short time with a dual 1.25 GHz PowerMac yesterday afternoon. It certainly wasn't quiet, but not any louder than I would expect a tower to be. The designer using the machine has is set right beside his display, and with the layout of his work area, it's literally a foot away from him. To him, it's no louder than his old G4 400. (this is in OSX)
[ 10-30-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
<strong>Back to the topic. I spent a short time with a dual 1.25 GHz PowerMac yesterday afternoon. It certainly wasn't quiet, but not any louder than I would expect a tower to be. The designer using the machine has is set right beside his display, and with the layout of his work area, it's literally a foot away from him. To him, it's no louder than his old G4 400. (this is in OSX)
[ 10-30-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, when i used them in OS X the noise was more than acceptable. I would even say it was good in comparison to some PCs. The problem is when you boot into OS 9. Sometimes when I would wake from sleep in OS 9 or restart, it would rev up the fan to insane noise levels (literally comparable to a vacuum cleaner, no exaggeration) and slowly rev back down only to start up again after 10 seconds or so. It would do this for half an hour if I let it. It's definitely not the normal complaint about noise. Next time I replicate it, I'll give you my telephone number and you can listen to it.
<strong>So...
Because Apple is ignorant to this problem and does only cosmetic changes (the little quieter in OS9)
and
the community mostly behaves like "all is ok what is called a mac"
I now have decided to switch.
But from Apple to PC
where I can get bad boxes for about half the price.
This after buying 18 Macs personally and more than 100 for other people.
So this will cost Apple some $ in the future.
I just keep my iBook becaus it ist worth its price.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quit cold turkey or your screwed. 'just keep my iBook...' WHATEVER! go get a nice XP laptop that has quadruple the specs for one quarter the price, thats how it works right?
PHhhhhht! You'll be begging to scroll through someones iTunes collection in 1 week.
go start a forum 'im a big pussy whos all talk'
As for the dustbuster noise under OS 9.
I have so far noticed two things (assuming you DON'T have a 820-1308 SN# board):
Restarting into OS 9 from OS X will cause the fans to go postal. Shutting down in OS X and cold booting into OS 9 does seem to circumwent the problem.
Also if the machine is "dustbusting" open it up and wait until the fans are low and stay low, then close it again. From my experience, opening it will often fix the problem within ~10 seconds.
My guess is that there's a bug in the way OS9 talks to the thermal sensor on the logic board.
Maybe I'll have to run OS 9 for a longer period of time to see if the problem also arises after a certain period of time in use.
Then again OS X really is the better OS for that dual machine. (I know, I know some of you can't use OS X for this and that reason, but I just need to say it, because I think there are still people out there who could switch any day but are simply afraid to do so).
Give it a try and let me know if it helps.
G-News
<strong>Oh, of course. Apple has ceased development on OS 9.
It's precicely THIS kind of problem why Apple has said that next year's Macs will not boot into OS9. The developers simply shouldn't be wasting their resources on updating and patching an old OS to work with new hardware. That will be the final nail in the coffin.
<strong>It seems Apple made a huge mistake in trusting developers to back their product to the point that suppliers will be forced to not upgrade until developers catch up.</strong><hr></blockquote>Unfortunately, Apple *MUST* make this move in order to get developers like Quark to get off their lazy asses and start writing for OSX. Until this announcement, Quark was apparently not motivated in the least to get any kind of native software for Mac OS X. The last estimate I recall hearing for Quark for X was late 2003/early 2004.
Apple was once again playing the chicken and the egg game -- developers won't move to X while 9 is still available, but Apple can't really drop 9 until apps are availably for X. Someone has to break out and make the first step. It's just like when Apple chose to ship Mac OS X by default on all Macs 10 months ago. Apple had to make the first step to give developers a good reason to code native. Since *most* products will be native by 2003, this is a fine move. Quark is the only third party I've seen lagging so bad.
[quote]<strong>All Microsoft or someone malicious has to do is to buy Quark and Adobe, cease development for OS X, and Apple has lost the entire publishing market</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, that's just silly.
[ 11-01-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>
<strong>I just got 2 new 1.25GHz Duals and they will be booting OS 9 for now until Quark and Microsoft get off their keister and deliver some native software. But every once in a while (8-10 times an hour) they make this blowing noise so loud, people from many cubes away come to see that the fuss is about. I didn't think this was normal until I set up the other one exactly the same way and it does the same thing.
What the hell? The people these things are going to cannot work like this. I've set up every manner of powermac and none have ever made as much noise. Maybe if I got 50 of them together. Is this normal?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've read elsewhere that there is no system control for those fans in OS 9 so they are always postal in 9 but fine in OS X. How about switching to InDesign 2. All of Microsoft's software is already ported to OS X. You didn't know that?
<strong>
F-ing Outlook (Exchange support).</strong><hr></blockquote>
You can forgetaboutit. They arenh't going to do an OS X Outlook Express. Old Press Release. Move it to Apple's Mail or M$ Office X's Entourage.
G-News
9 is dead and that for a good reason - its old junk.
get real and step into a modern system like osx.
btw: quark xpress runs great in classic.
quark has abused thier clients for years.
i worked for years with quark but 3500 swiss franks for an outdated software with a hardware-dongle was enough for me.
wake up! ever looked into indesign?
welcome to the future.
more on topic: if you think a mdd is noisy - go see (hear) a xserve at work.
Try that, if not, put the CPU under the user's desk and tell the primadonna's either deal with the noise or you can give them a nice quiet bondi iMac. That seem to shut my complaining users up.
To be more precise, if the fan is at full speed all the time (normally 3 speed) the mother board may have the bug.
Look at your motherboard part number (near the modem slot).
If the part number is 802-1308 you are elligible for a new mother board from Apple and can contact tech support.