Apple Pushing Its Luck?

Posted:
in macOS edited January 2014
Does anyone think Jobs and Apple is pushing its luck with making advertisements about how we have no viruses (even though there's like 8 for mac...but all kinda not prevalent) and no spyware. Isn't just a matter of time before some avid believer in PCs and Windows writes his own malware just to shut up Apple and apple users? I could just be paranoid about it. And I threw it in here because this does relate to the OS.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 19
    benzenebenzene Posts: 338member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Caribou Killa


    sn't just a matter of time before some avid believer in PCs and Windows writes his own malware just to shut up Apple and apple users?



    Who says they haven't tried?



    This whole question of macintosh security has been argued up and down. The main gist of the issue is that because OSX was written with security in mind (instead of added later in the case of Windows), it's going to:



    A) Limit the number of successful attacks

    B) Limit the severity of said attacks.



    However, I do foresee some sort of serious malware for the mac, purely because nature abhors a vacuum. I'm not holding my breath though.
  • Reply 2 of 19
    kukukuku Posts: 254member
    Not really. It's saying truth.



    Is the os invincible? Nope.



    But it'll be a long time before it can get anywere near the level of Windows OS.



    1:

    Many of the exploits on windows (including spyware) are specific to windows. It will take a radically different thinking to put it on OSX.



    2:

    Add to that the diffculty to infect another computer from the first.



    There's just currently no easy way to throw the OSX userbase into ruins, so Apple can speak as much trash as it can till one of the two changes.



    Before anyone says Security fixes themselves prove otherwise, the stuff there are high level. It's a far far far cry from casual level expliot needed. Infact half of them don't even matter, since most people leave OSX in default state(ports closed), and those patches don't really effect it anyway.
  • Reply 3 of 19
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    The Mac's lack of viruses is not due to luck. It is due to superior software and hardware design. Contrary to nerd myth, viruses and other malware are not written out of spite or a similar childish motive. There is some of that to be sure, but most malware is part of some [illegal] scheme to make money for its developers. If it were possible to exploit MacOS X as part of one or more of these schemes, someone will find a way to do it no matter what Apple says or does not say. The fact that no one has yet succeeded is unimpeachable testimony in support of the notion that it may not be possible.
  • Reply 4 of 19
    kukukuku Posts: 254member
    In probably is not impossible.



    Trying to take down a fortress with a small band of troops is improbable, but not impossible.



    Currently there just isn't the easiness vs profit of doing it.



    Unless one of the two changes, they can talk more trash. Either it gets more easier or gets more profitable to.
  • Reply 5 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kuku


    2: Add to that the diffculty to infect another computer from the first.



    There's just currently no easy way to throw the OSX userbase into ruins, so Apple can speak as much trash as it can till one of the two changes.



    Didnt the one kind of popular virus send it self through your iChat buddy list?
  • Reply 6 of 19
    dont c how it can be that hard to create a mac virus... Just write a program that does something that the user probably doesn't want it to do.
  • Reply 7 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Frediography


    dont c how it can be that hard to create a mac virus... Just write a program that does something that the user probably doesn't want it to do.



    Well i think normally the idea is that while it does something the user doesnt want it to do it should also have other parts to it, like keeping it hidden or how and where it copies itself. Otherwise its just an annoying comand line or something. Something that can just be thrown away.
  • Reply 8 of 19
    lundylundy Posts: 4,466member
    That would be a Trojan - there is no defense against Trojans on any platform.
  • Reply 9 of 19
    well seeing as everyone can agree that malware for macs is inevitable, what kind of malware do you think it will be to first attack a massive amount of macs?
  • Reply 10 of 19
    elronelron Posts: 126member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Caribou Killa


    Does anyone think Jobs and Apple is pushing its luck with making advertisements about how we have no viruses (even though there's like 8 for mac...but all kinda not prevalent) and no spyware. Isn't just a matter of time before some avid believer in PCs and Windows writes his own malware just to shut up Apple and apple users? I could just be paranoid about it. And I threw it in here because this does relate to the OS.



    I agree with you. Mac OS X is not invulnerable. There have been plenty of security advisories for it, but none of them seem to materialize into actual threats. A big part of the reason is that the Mac user model is more secure than Windows'. Windows XP has a very poor privilege escalation model, which means that most users have to run with more privileges than they need just to run normal software. This makes it much easier to exploit Windows... you're already running as "root" (not quite, but almost), so you just need to find an arbitrary code exploit. On a Mac, you have to finagle a way to get root first and then use the arbitrary code exploit. It makes it harder, and Apple has every right to tout it in their commercials.



    I do worry that eventually someone will take it as a challenge. The recently reported Wi-fi exploit proves that some people are already starting to see it as one.
  • Reply 11 of 19
    lundylundy Posts: 4,466member
    I don't know anybody who is saying that OS X is invulnerable.



    It's just orders of magnitude harder to exploit than Winders is, due to its design.



    And yet constantly, people are saying "Mac OS X is not invulnerable." Who said that it was?
  • Reply 12 of 19
    Well i think the misconception routes solely from the fact that sometimes OSX users use the "well at least i dont have to worry about spyware/virus/malware" argument when they fight with windows users. They dont bother to say Well at least I dont have to worry yet because of course that would diminish their argument.
  • Reply 13 of 19
    lundylundy Posts: 4,466member
    When they say they don't have to worry, it's a true statement. They aren't offering an opinion one way or another on whether Mac OS X is "100% invulnerable". That is a hallucination of the listener.
  • Reply 14 of 19
    surfratsurfrat Posts: 341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lundy


    When they say they don't have to worry, it's a true statement. They aren't offering an opinion one way or another on whether Mac OS X is "100% invulnerable". That is a hallucination of the listener.



    Precisely. I don't worry, because nothing prevalent exists at this point in time. No one running OS X has to worry. That's the point. No one ever said, I'll never, 'till the end of time, have to worry about viruses on a Mac. At least, however, no one I've ever spoken to.
  • Reply 15 of 19
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Caribou Killa


    well seeing as everyone can agree that malware for macs is inevitable, ...



    No, not everyone agrees that malware is inevitable. Most will agree that it is possible, but that is a very different animal. Malware is not created by magic. Neither is it created by random chance. In order to develop malware on MacOS X, one of two things must happen. One--some malware developer most exploit a previously unknown vulnerability in MacOS X before Apple can fix it. Two--Apple must become a lot sloppier in its software design and create new vulnerabilities that can be exploited for ill.
  • Reply 16 of 19
    kukukuku Posts: 254member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by elron


    I do worry that eventually someone will take it as a challenge. The recently reported Wi-fi exploit proves that some people are already starting to see it as one.



    That was full of trash BS. When under the microscope, that hack was the equvilant of smoke and mirror slash-media journalism.



    http://daringfireball.net/2006/08/curious_case



    Basically, thet were using 3rd party usb-wireless with a 3rd party driver(probably custom made driver!), with a hint of slight of hand(bash command) which sugges not only was it not a real hack, but a phony one as well.



    Also a lot of eye dodging when ask to prove it. Like :"Apple leaned on us if you get the hint"



    Bascially, they failed miserably to attack apple, as not only that they can't hack it, but faked it in public.



    The ichat buddy list was a proof of concept which may or may not have work. Probably not though, as the settings in ichat had to be made to accept automatically which may or may not be on computers.



    It's easy to make headlines on a mac, but they all come out duds. Oh the other hand windows all seems to be worse then the headlines.



    So apple talks trash to take advantage of it.
  • Reply 17 of 19
    Let me put it this way, if any hacker had enough knowledge of computer security to implement a virus for the Mac OS, they wouldn't be using Windows.
  • Reply 18 of 19
    Basically it boils down to, a 13 year old could successfully make a virus for Windows. That's not an overstatement, when I was 13 I knew how to bring Windows down & I was one of those wannabe programmers that hung out in AOL chat rooms. The kind of knowledge that is required to bring Mac OS to it's knees is rarely held by anyone that would want to do that sort of thing. Unless an organization of people arises who find some religious reason to go spend years educating themselves in the matter, or unless Apple does something really stupid (doubtful), then Mac OS will never see such a string of viruses as Windows sees.
  • Reply 19 of 19
    I agree with most people here. The big 3 reasons Apple has a huge advantage:



    1) Less need to support legacy software means Apple can fix things easier. Additionally, there are fewer APIs, and they've all been vetted or written a lot more recently than some of the legacy Windows APIs



    2) The user system helps a lot. It makes social engineering harder (but not impossible), and it limits what a virus can do without getting re-authorized every 5-10 minutes.



    3) Lack of really dumb "features" like ActiveX or closer browser/Office tie-in to the OS.
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