But since it's probably fair to assume Microsoft does measure its success via profits, didn't you just contradict your first comment?
I had a personal conversation with Mr. Bill Gates himself in the 1990s. The topic was advancing technology, and why M$ seemed to make some of the simplest things so difficult. Bill told me that "If it were up to me, I would not advance technology anymore than the competition forced me to. I would trickle the existing technology out slowly over the next twenty years or more."
He had also stated that keeping things complex to use renders him Billions of dollars in profit a year training companies and their employees to run their stuff.
I feel that money is good, but a company with such power and control in how we as humans advance our technology, that their is also a responsibility to advance people as well as the profits.
Now that Zune has been shown to be a repackaged already in existence mp3 player, I am curious to see what the "Music Service" part of the picture will be like. I posted before that M$ has historically not been able to release products in a timely manner. I predicted that they would have to pull from already designed products to be able to manufacture, package, promote and release an ipod killer and itunes music store killer by Oct. or Nov. to meet the holiday buying season as they claim they will. I also predicted that they would use URGE as the "Store" part of the puzzle.
Nothing "New" here. Just the same old stuff, with a different face. Kinda like "Vista". Or should I say XP sp4 instead.
You didn't predict anything. Urge+Zune was known for quite awhile now.
And please, unless you have used Windows Vista, you have no business echoing everyone else.
Microsoft's upcoming Zune digital media player appears to be little more than a repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat player, which itself has enjoyed only marginal success, one Wall Street analyst says.
Recently, specs and photos of the highly-anticipated Zune device turned up through FCC filings and other industry sources, offering industry analysts and pundits alike a glimpse of what Microsoft has in store for this year's holiday shopping season. However, few have are impressed with the device.
"While we have great respect for Microsoft, we are frankly underwhelmed by the much-hyped Zune device," American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu told clients on Wednesday. "It appears that the Zune is essentially a repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat that has seen limited success."
In a research note, Wu said Zune shares similar characteristics to other would-be iPod knockoffs, which have so far failed to chip away at Apple's dominate share of the digital media player marker.
"Like the Chocolate phone from LG and other vendors, the Zune includes a fake click-wheel that does not scroll nor is touch pressure sensitive making navigation difficult, particularly for users with large music, video, and photo libraries," he said. "We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine."
Wu continues to believe that replicating the iPod + iTunes digital franchise is an extremely difficult endeavor in which most competitors are unlikely to succeed without infringing on Apple's patents. Of all the companies challenging the iPod, he believes Sony has come the closest to creating a pleasant experience with its Walkman cell phones. Still, he notes that the success of the Walkman phones have had little impact on Apple's ability to maintain and grow its share of the market.
In his note to clients, the analyst also questions Microsoft's decision to target Zune only at the high-end digital media player market, which accounts for only 20 to 25 percent of the players sold.
"Microsoft appears to be targeting the high-end space with its $300 pricing, 30GB microdrive storage, Wi-Fi capability, and FM tuner," Wu said. "While this makes sense to aim after Apple's dominant video iPod, we believe Microsoft is leaving out 75 to 80 percent of the market opportunity in the midrange and low-end that is currently dominated by iPod nano, iPod shuffle, SanDisk, and Sony Walkman phones."
In the analyst's opinion, Microsoft's entry into the digital media player market is akin to waging a civil war with its partners. He says it pits the company in direct competition with its friendlies that have supported its Windows Media format.
"While the focus is on Apple, we believe this move will likely have a much larger competitive impact on Creative, SanDisk, Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, iRiver, Archos, and others," he said. "We believe Microsoft's action could also make partners think twice before deciding to work with Microsoft on future projects."
Wu sees the digital media player market as divided into two camps: iPod + iTunes and Windows Media.* While he believes Zune will likely see some success due to Microsoft's strong brand name and strong marketing effort, he believes that success will be limited by its lack of differentiation versus other Windows players.
"We believe iPod + iTunes is positioned to be the Walkman of the portable media space," Wu wrote in conclusion. "Walkman maintained its dominance over a 15 - 20 year period despite countless competitors trying to create a 'Walkman killer.' We believe iPod = Walkman for the 2000s."
Wu maintains a "Buy" rating on shares of Apple Computer with a price target of $75. The analyst does not provide coverage of Microsoft.
Sadly, I think it will sell a good deal of units (won't make a big dent in iPod sales) ... it will prove my idea that a lot of people would buy a pile of feces with wires sticking out of it as long as it said Microsoft (xbox 360 excepted. that thing does own.)
We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine.
I had a personal conversation with Mr. Bill Gates himself in the 1990s. The topic was advancing technology, and why M$ seemed to make some of the simplest things so difficult. Bill told me that "If it were up to me, I would not advance technology anymore than the competition forced me to. I would trickle the existing technology out slowly over the next twenty years or more."
He had also stated that keeping things complex to use renders him Billions of dollars in profit a year training companies and their employees to run their stuff.
I feel that money is good, but a company with such power and control in how we as humans advance our technology, that their is also a responsibility to advance people as well as the profits.
I doubt very much that Bill Gates would discuss any such thing with you. Whatever we might think of his business practices, we can all agree that he is far too smart to tell some unknown individual that sort of thing.
Every company has a culture. MS was built and brilliant at selling to Enterprise. That was considered "cool" in the late 1980's and most of the 1990's but now, we live in a different tech world and MS desperately wants to be seen as "cool" again. It's like a bank or a steel mill trying to be hip and cool - it's just not in their DNA. Their other problem is they are still living off their arrogance from the 1990's when they ruled the world and people quaked at their edicts and pronouncements - yes, you could quibble that a lot of it was illegal but what's done is done and it's a new era. They don't quite get it when companies like Apple, Google, Cisco, Yahoo, Linux*, etc just basically IGNORE them - the gravest sin. All around, people are creating markets and technology WITHOUT them or without MS OS - they just don't understand how it got to be, partially pretending it's not true (listen to Ballmer's rants) and deep down confused.
They see that that consumers now rule the roost in driving tech innovation so of course, they try to jump on board as many bandwagons as possible - Talking Barney's, watches, Bob OS, PDA's, Cell phones, online music, online movies, home networking webtv, MSN, etc, etc ...
ALL OUTRIGHT FAILURES - especially considering the money they've already spent ... for instance, they've been developing a "cable set top box" for nearly 10 years - right now, they have around 10,000 boxes out ther testing in a universe of 90 MILLION cable boxes.
They don't get consumers and are just not built for understanding conusmers. They bring in outsiders who claim they know what they are doing but right now, only people without new ideas are willing to work for MS - like the old Dreamcast guy who implemented the EXACT same strategy for Xbox 360. If we're early, we'll be #1! (never mind Dreamcast. Jaguar and Sega CD) or this last Xmas, who turns $100 million dollars worth of PR into nothing? After the initial shipment, did anyone see an Xbox until early THIS summer? 8 months later? Yes, there is Pr value in creating an artificial shortage but Sony was flying in PS2 by the plane load (also on the news) when it launched but MS just figured we're like enterprise, we will buy it whenever ... the Xbox 360 stack at costco is larger then the PS2 stack ...
And speaking of Xbox, are shareholders & enterprise customers happy they are overpaying so MS can spend over $10 BILLION on selling 25 million XBoxes ($400 per?).
Most people cannot afford successes like that, only MS buiilt on the backs of their shareholders and enterprse customers.
Not every company is built to sell everything to every consumer. Would you bank at M&M's? Would you buy insurance from Mattel? Would you buy a TV from Cisco? Same thing with MS.
They are wasting time and shareholder's money by trying to do things they've haven't a clue about. Yes, they have plenty of cash and will continue to generate that cash but shareholders should ask - what's the point when you have failed at EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT since 1995 to sell outside enterprise? Isn't it clear by now they do NOT know what they are doing?
*yes, linux is not a company but to MS, they considered it one.
In early human history, there were people of all sorts selling "Snake Oil" products. Or in other words, things and remedies that were designed knowingly to deceive the purchaser into buying something they knew would not work as advertised. These people and their products were the popular, as everyone was using them.
The proved to be popular, but not good or rightly.
That argument fails in the case of MS vs Apple because both products work "well enough" to achieve what was desired by consumers from purchasing the product in the first place. "Snake oil" doesn't really apply to this situation.
It's the same as the Beta vs VHS battle. Everyone knows Beta was superior quality, but VHS won out because it worked "well enough" for people (and had more industry backing).
And good or rightly are irrelevant in the world of business. For every well intentioned startup, I'll show you a potential "evil empire".
Every company has a culture. MS was built and brilliant at selling to Enterprise. That was considered "cool" in the late 1980's and most of the 1990's but now, we live in a different tech world and MS desperately wants to be seen as "cool" again. It's like a bank or a steel mill trying to be hip and cool - it's just not in their DNA. Their other problem is they are still living off their arrogance from the 1990's when they ruled the world and people quaked at their edicts and pronouncements - yes, you could quibble that a lot of it was illegal but what's done is done and it's a new era. They don't quite get it when companies like Apple, Google, Cisco, Yahoo, Linux*, etc just basically IGNORE them - the gravest sin. All around, people are creating markets and technology WITHOUT them or without MS OS - they just don't understand how it got to be, partially pretending it's not true (listen to Ballmer's rants) and deep down confused.
They see that that consumers now rule the roost in driving tech innovation so of course, they try to jump on board as many bandwagons as possible - Talking Barney's, watches, Bob OS, PDA's, Cell phones, online music, online movies, home networking webtv, MSN, etc, etc ...
ALL OUTRIGHT FAILURES - especially considering the money they've already spent ... for instance, they've been developing a "cable set top box" for nearly 10 years - right now, they have around 10,000 boxes out ther testing in a universe of 90 MILLION cable boxes.
They don't get consumers and are just not built for understanding conusmers. They bring in outsiders who claim they know what they are doing but right now, only people without new ideas are willing to work for MS - like the old Dreamcast guy who implemented the EXACT same strategy for Xbox 360. If we're early, we'll be #1! (never mind Dreamcast. Jaguar and Sega CD) or this last Xmas, who turns $100 million dollars worth of PR into nothing? After the initial shipment, did anyone see an Xbox until early THIS summer? 8 months later? Yes, there is Pr value in creating an artificial shortage but Sony was flying in PS2 by the plane load (also on the news) when it launched but MS just figured we're like enterprise, we will buy it whenever ... the Xbox 360 stack at costco is larger then the PS2 stack ...
And speaking of Xbox, are shareholders & enterprise customers happy they are overpaying so MS can spend over $10 BILLION on selling 25 million XBoxes ($400 per?).
Most people cannot afford successes like that, only MS buiilt on the backs of their shareholders and enterprse customers.
Not every company is built to sell everything to every consumer. Would you bank at M&M's? Would you buy insurance from Mattel? Would you buy a TV from Cisco? Same thing with MS.
They are wasting time and shareholder's money by trying to do things they've haven't a clue about. Yes, they have plenty of cash and will continue to generate that cash but shareholders should ask - what's the point when you have failed at EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT since 1995 to sell outside enterprise? Isn't it clear by now they do NOT know what they are doing?
*yes, linux is not a company but to MS, they considered it one.
Well put about banking @ M&M's (I am assuming the candy, which would be Mars company), etc. That is exactly Microsoft's flawed line of thinking
Kids kids...shut up...lets all bond together knowing that the zune will be probably as profitable as the zen micro and that will be that. We can all take comfort knowing all of our Protected AACs wont be turning into WM Play Fo' Sho'.
"We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine."
Comments
Well, not to pick on you or anything...
But since it's probably fair to assume Microsoft does measure its success via profits, didn't you just contradict your first comment?
I had a personal conversation with Mr. Bill Gates himself in the 1990s. The topic was advancing technology, and why M$ seemed to make some of the simplest things so difficult. Bill told me that "If it were up to me, I would not advance technology anymore than the competition forced me to. I would trickle the existing technology out slowly over the next twenty years or more."
He had also stated that keeping things complex to use renders him Billions of dollars in profit a year training companies and their employees to run their stuff.
I feel that money is good, but a company with such power and control in how we as humans advance our technology, that their is also a responsibility to advance people as well as the profits.
What an utterly stupid post. You're 14 right?
And you work for M$. Right?
Now that Zune has been shown to be a repackaged already in existence mp3 player, I am curious to see what the "Music Service" part of the picture will be like. I posted before that M$ has historically not been able to release products in a timely manner. I predicted that they would have to pull from already designed products to be able to manufacture, package, promote and release an ipod killer and itunes music store killer by Oct. or Nov. to meet the holiday buying season as they claim they will. I also predicted that they would use URGE as the "Store" part of the puzzle.
Nothing "New" here. Just the same old stuff, with a different face. Kinda like "Vista". Or should I say XP sp4 instead.
You didn't predict anything. Urge+Zune was known for quite awhile now.
And please, unless you have used Windows Vista, you have no business echoing everyone else.
You're 14, right?
Microsoft's upcoming Zune digital media player appears to be little more than a repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat player, which itself has enjoyed only marginal success, one Wall Street analyst says.
Recently, specs and photos of the highly-anticipated Zune device turned up through FCC filings and other industry sources, offering industry analysts and pundits alike a glimpse of what Microsoft has in store for this year's holiday shopping season. However, few have are impressed with the device.
"While we have great respect for Microsoft, we are frankly underwhelmed by the much-hyped Zune device," American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu told clients on Wednesday. "It appears that the Zune is essentially a repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat that has seen limited success."
In a research note, Wu said Zune shares similar characteristics to other would-be iPod knockoffs, which have so far failed to chip away at Apple's dominate share of the digital media player marker.
"Like the Chocolate phone from LG and other vendors, the Zune includes a fake click-wheel that does not scroll nor is touch pressure sensitive making navigation difficult, particularly for users with large music, video, and photo libraries," he said. "We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine."
Wu continues to believe that replicating the iPod + iTunes digital franchise is an extremely difficult endeavor in which most competitors are unlikely to succeed without infringing on Apple's patents. Of all the companies challenging the iPod, he believes Sony has come the closest to creating a pleasant experience with its Walkman cell phones. Still, he notes that the success of the Walkman phones have had little impact on Apple's ability to maintain and grow its share of the market.
In his note to clients, the analyst also questions Microsoft's decision to target Zune only at the high-end digital media player market, which accounts for only 20 to 25 percent of the players sold.
"Microsoft appears to be targeting the high-end space with its $300 pricing, 30GB microdrive storage, Wi-Fi capability, and FM tuner," Wu said. "While this makes sense to aim after Apple's dominant video iPod, we believe Microsoft is leaving out 75 to 80 percent of the market opportunity in the midrange and low-end that is currently dominated by iPod nano, iPod shuffle, SanDisk, and Sony Walkman phones."
In the analyst's opinion, Microsoft's entry into the digital media player market is akin to waging a civil war with its partners. He says it pits the company in direct competition with its friendlies that have supported its Windows Media format.
"While the focus is on Apple, we believe this move will likely have a much larger competitive impact on Creative, SanDisk, Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, iRiver, Archos, and others," he said. "We believe Microsoft's action could also make partners think twice before deciding to work with Microsoft on future projects."
Wu sees the digital media player market as divided into two camps: iPod + iTunes and Windows Media.* While he believes Zune will likely see some success due to Microsoft's strong brand name and strong marketing effort, he believes that success will be limited by its lack of differentiation versus other Windows players.
"We believe iPod + iTunes is positioned to be the Walkman of the portable media space," Wu wrote in conclusion. "Walkman maintained its dominance over a 15 - 20 year period despite countless competitors trying to create a 'Walkman killer.' We believe iPod = Walkman for the 2000s."
Wu maintains a "Buy" rating on shares of Apple Computer with a price target of $75. The analyst does not provide coverage of Microsoft.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Sadly, I think it will sell a good deal of units (won't make a big dent in iPod sales) ... it will prove my idea that a lot of people would buy a pile of feces with wires sticking out of it as long as it said Microsoft (xbox 360 excepted. that thing does own.)
Because it has popularity, does not mean it is good, or rightly.
And what does that has to do with success?
Don't consider "goodliness" as any corporate measure. Ben and Jerry sold out. Google's "Do no evil." has been shown to be a crock.
Success is measured by sales, and profits. don't forget that.
What the future will bring, we don't know. but, for now, MS is the most profitable large corporation on the planet.
We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Ever heard of patents, Wu?
Microsoft appears to be targeting the high-end space with its $300 pricing, 30GB microdrive storage, Wi-Fi capability, and FM tuner
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
There is no such thing (please correct me if I am wrong) as a 30Gb microdrive. The biggest I know of is 8Gb. What world is Woo living on...?
I had a personal conversation with Mr. Bill Gates himself in the 1990s. The topic was advancing technology, and why M$ seemed to make some of the simplest things so difficult. Bill told me that "If it were up to me, I would not advance technology anymore than the competition forced me to. I would trickle the existing technology out slowly over the next twenty years or more."
He had also stated that keeping things complex to use renders him Billions of dollars in profit a year training companies and their employees to run their stuff.
I feel that money is good, but a company with such power and control in how we as humans advance our technology, that their is also a responsibility to advance people as well as the profits.
I doubt very much that Bill Gates would discuss any such thing with you. Whatever we might think of his business practices, we can all agree that he is far too smart to tell some unknown individual that sort of thing.
Heard that Zune Before.
Yep. This really is starting to sound like a Much Ado About Nothing...
There is no such thing (please correct me if I am wrong) as a 30Gb microdrive. The biggest I know of is 8Gb. What world is Woo living on...?
If you're going to correct him on such counts, at least learn to spell units right. 30 Gb aren't even 4 GBs, so yes, a 30 Gb microdrive does exist.
They see that that consumers now rule the roost in driving tech innovation so of course, they try to jump on board as many bandwagons as possible - Talking Barney's, watches, Bob OS, PDA's, Cell phones, online music, online movies, home networking webtv, MSN, etc, etc ...
ALL OUTRIGHT FAILURES - especially considering the money they've already spent ... for instance, they've been developing a "cable set top box" for nearly 10 years - right now, they have around 10,000 boxes out ther testing in a universe of 90 MILLION cable boxes.
They don't get consumers and are just not built for understanding conusmers. They bring in outsiders who claim they know what they are doing but right now, only people without new ideas are willing to work for MS - like the old Dreamcast guy who implemented the EXACT same strategy for Xbox 360. If we're early, we'll be #1! (never mind Dreamcast. Jaguar and Sega CD) or this last Xmas, who turns $100 million dollars worth of PR into nothing? After the initial shipment, did anyone see an Xbox until early THIS summer? 8 months later? Yes, there is Pr value in creating an artificial shortage but Sony was flying in PS2 by the plane load (also on the news) when it launched but MS just figured we're like enterprise, we will buy it whenever ... the Xbox 360 stack at costco is larger then the PS2 stack ...
And speaking of Xbox, are shareholders & enterprise customers happy they are overpaying so MS can spend over $10 BILLION on selling 25 million XBoxes ($400 per?).
Most people cannot afford successes like that, only MS buiilt on the backs of their shareholders and enterprse customers.
Not every company is built to sell everything to every consumer. Would you bank at M&M's? Would you buy insurance from Mattel? Would you buy a TV from Cisco? Same thing with MS.
They are wasting time and shareholder's money by trying to do things they've haven't a clue about. Yes, they have plenty of cash and will continue to generate that cash but shareholders should ask - what's the point when you have failed at EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT since 1995 to sell outside enterprise? Isn't it clear by now they do NOT know what they are doing?
*yes, linux is not a company but to MS, they considered it one.
In early human history, there were people of all sorts selling "Snake Oil" products. Or in other words, things and remedies that were designed knowingly to deceive the purchaser into buying something they knew would not work as advertised. These people and their products were the popular, as everyone was using them.
The proved to be popular, but not good or rightly.
That argument fails in the case of MS vs Apple because both products work "well enough" to achieve what was desired by consumers from purchasing the product in the first place. "Snake oil" doesn't really apply to this situation.
It's the same as the Beta vs VHS battle. Everyone knows Beta was superior quality, but VHS won out because it worked "well enough" for people (and had more industry backing).
And good or rightly are irrelevant in the world of business. For every well intentioned startup, I'll show you a potential "evil empire".
Every company has a culture. MS was built and brilliant at selling to Enterprise. That was considered "cool" in the late 1980's and most of the 1990's but now, we live in a different tech world and MS desperately wants to be seen as "cool" again. It's like a bank or a steel mill trying to be hip and cool - it's just not in their DNA. Their other problem is they are still living off their arrogance from the 1990's when they ruled the world and people quaked at their edicts and pronouncements - yes, you could quibble that a lot of it was illegal but what's done is done and it's a new era. They don't quite get it when companies like Apple, Google, Cisco, Yahoo, Linux*, etc just basically IGNORE them - the gravest sin. All around, people are creating markets and technology WITHOUT them or without MS OS - they just don't understand how it got to be, partially pretending it's not true (listen to Ballmer's rants) and deep down confused.
They see that that consumers now rule the roost in driving tech innovation so of course, they try to jump on board as many bandwagons as possible - Talking Barney's, watches, Bob OS, PDA's, Cell phones, online music, online movies, home networking webtv, MSN, etc, etc ...
ALL OUTRIGHT FAILURES - especially considering the money they've already spent ... for instance, they've been developing a "cable set top box" for nearly 10 years - right now, they have around 10,000 boxes out ther testing in a universe of 90 MILLION cable boxes.
They don't get consumers and are just not built for understanding conusmers. They bring in outsiders who claim they know what they are doing but right now, only people without new ideas are willing to work for MS - like the old Dreamcast guy who implemented the EXACT same strategy for Xbox 360. If we're early, we'll be #1! (never mind Dreamcast. Jaguar and Sega CD) or this last Xmas, who turns $100 million dollars worth of PR into nothing? After the initial shipment, did anyone see an Xbox until early THIS summer? 8 months later? Yes, there is Pr value in creating an artificial shortage but Sony was flying in PS2 by the plane load (also on the news) when it launched but MS just figured we're like enterprise, we will buy it whenever ... the Xbox 360 stack at costco is larger then the PS2 stack ...
And speaking of Xbox, are shareholders & enterprise customers happy they are overpaying so MS can spend over $10 BILLION on selling 25 million XBoxes ($400 per?).
Most people cannot afford successes like that, only MS buiilt on the backs of their shareholders and enterprse customers.
Not every company is built to sell everything to every consumer. Would you bank at M&M's? Would you buy insurance from Mattel? Would you buy a TV from Cisco? Same thing with MS.
They are wasting time and shareholder's money by trying to do things they've haven't a clue about. Yes, they have plenty of cash and will continue to generate that cash but shareholders should ask - what's the point when you have failed at EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT since 1995 to sell outside enterprise? Isn't it clear by now they do NOT know what they are doing?
*yes, linux is not a company but to MS, they considered it one.
Well put about banking @ M&M's (I am assuming the candy, which would be Mars company), etc. That is exactly Microsoft's flawed line of thinking
Wrong.
There is a 3rd camp.
Music with no DRM and played on the plyer of your choice.
Shaw Wu wrote: "two camps: iPod + iTunes and Windows Media."
Wrong.
There is a 3rd camp.
Music with no DRM and played on the plyer of your choice.
And there's oh so many stores that sell such music, right?
Right?
Yeah.
And you work for M$. Right?
oh snaps!
And there's oh so many stores that sell such music, right?
Right?
Yeah.
Best Buy, Target, Walmart and Amazon to name a few, and that's just the US chains.
Isn't the click-wheel patented?