Aside from the occasional news release, this thread has pretty much degenerated into a “my format is better than yours”, “no it’s not”, with a few more realistic or semi-Ludite, your choice, “neither format is going to catch on in the next three to four years, if ever” thrown in.
I’m curious. Has anyone in this thread actually bought one of the HD/BR machines? If you buy DVDs for your personal collection, have you put off buying DVDs in the anticipation of the new formats or are you still purchasing new DVD releases that catch your eye?
I don't think there's anything wrong with the "my format's better than your" debates. For those who are kibitzing they are learning valuable info about the platform. I remember when the products hadn't even announed and I read multiple people stating that the superiority of Blu-Ray was so strong that HD DVD should just pack up and go home. They never foresaw troubles with 50GB DL BD-ROM discs causing Sony to ship bitstarved MPEG2 SL discs. They never saw the poor movie quality BD launch coming. They never saw Toshiba hitting the ground with a high quotient of high picture quality movies.
I think both formats are good and the differences really come down to minute feature advantages and overall cost. I'm looking forward to having both companies earn my business rather than just expect it by default
I don't think there's anything wrong with the "my format's better than your" debates. For those who are kibitzing they are learning valuable info about the platform. I remember when the products hadn't even announed and I read multiple people stating that the superiority of Blu-Ray was so strong that HD DVD should just pack up and go home. They never foresaw troubles with 50GB DL BD-ROM discs causing Sony to ship bitstarved MPEG2 SL discs. They never saw the poor movie quality BD launch coming. They never saw Toshiba hitting the ground with a high quotient of high picture quality movies.
Blu-Ray is a superior format but the launch was botched so badly I don't know if that matters anymore. If they don't get their act together soon HD-DVD will win and it will be their own damn fault. There is some good news:
"Kingdom of Heaven will be released on the dual-layered 50 GB BD-ROM discs (and may be the first such title, depending on Sony's TBA release plans). All of Fox's titles will sell for SRP $39.98. All will include DTS HD Lossless Master audio, and some (Behind Enemy Lines, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Speed) will be presented using the AVC (MPEG-4) video codec".
Regarding the 50GB discs the problem isn't really the discs themselves but the Samsung player which needs a firmware update to work with them. It shipped before the 50GB discs were finalized and testing was incomplete. The firmware update is not yet available so 50GB discs like Lawrence of Arabia and Black Hawk Down had to be delayed. I don't think the picture quality of the single layer Blu-Ray discs is related though. There is something else going on there. A 90 minute movie encoded in MPEG2 with 25GB of storage should look better. I suspect quick and dirty encoding to be the problem.
I can't see where a prototype with no release date constitutes a "win". I also don't know that sure to be extremely expensive drives and media sold as a backup solution will have much effect on the consumer home video market, any more than DAT backup drives have hastened the adoption of that format for consumer audio.
Just another format war, wait till this time next year and there will be dual format players and/or writers in both TV/AV and PC /notebook formfactors, and 2 years from now, they will be $39 at Wal*Mart, unless one dies off, and if one is to die off, it will be blu-ray, outside of Beta in pro video, no sony propriatery media has ever caught on, they hung themselves with great technologies like BetaMax, Mini-disk, memoryStick, and as of late PSP by not opening them up to the industry as a whole, and they will no doubt do the same with Blu-ray.
Outside of Beta in pro video, no Sony propriatery media has ever caught on.
If Apple, Dell, Panasonic, JVC, Mitsubishi, Pioneer, LG, Samsung, etc. and most Hollywood studios support Blu-Ray it can it be called proprietary? By this reasoning the Compact Disc or "CD" must have been a failure.
I'd imagine that scenario would play out like this.
Customer walks in. Sees the lonely HD DVD player playing a great looking movie. They'd note the price $499 and then walk over to the Blu-Ray section.
They'd marvel at the picture quality and state that both formats look great. They'd admire the designs of the various Blu-Ray players and finally they'd pick their favorite and seek the price.
Uh oh
Sony BD player- $1000
Panasonic player- $1299
Pioneer $1499
Samsung $1000
Could they be looking at the right products? That lonely Toshiba had a great picture and was under $500. Why are these players twice as much? The Best Buy drone states that if the price is too high he could always buy a Playstation 3. More confusion. Why would he buy a game console to play movies?? Sure the price is cheaper but the question is if the PS3 is cheaper then why can't all the players be cheaper?
The potential customer leaves the store. Clearly HD isn't for him yet. An certainly not at $1000 or more for the players.
Customer walks into an electronics store circa 1984 and sees a lonely RCA Selectavision player at $300 with $30 discs. He heads over to the Laserdisc section but finds the players are double the price with $40 discs. Uh oh. Oh, wait. Guess which format lasted longer?
Price has always been the difference that made HD-DVD (theoretically) better in my book. Both can fit HD movies. Not many consumers want to pay hundreds more when they can't even tell the difference.
But hell, even current DL DVDs can fit HD movies. These formats aren't about what consumers want.
Well, you can fit an HD movie onto a current DL-DVD but it's not the greatest quality even using MPEG4. You really need more space than that. I've seen comparisons between WMV-HD discs and broadcast HD and the broadcasts were noticably better and keep in mind broadcast HD isn't nearly as good as HD-DVD or Blu-Ray either.
The price of Blu-Ray players needs to come down. If Sony can sell a PS3 for $499 that is both a Blu-Ray player and a game console then surely they can sell a standalone Blu-Ray player for the same amount.
Sony's losing mad money on the PS3, but they can make it up with peripherals, game licenses, dev kits, and other stuff. Once I own a BR player, the only thing I buy after that is BR discs. Even if Sony/Toshiba/Panasonic/whoever get $2 a disc, that's still about a hundred Blu-Rays I have to buy to make it even.
Toshiba is releasing HD-DVD in Europe on November 15th, just two days before the PS3 release. Now unless Toshiba undercuts Sony a lot, it looks like an own goal for HD-DVD.
This first round is meaningless. The round that matters comes when normal geeks can afford to buy it ($300) and the round where normal people will consider it ($150 or lower).
Toshiba is releasing HD-DVD in Europe on November 15th, just two days before the PS3 release. Now unless Toshiba undercuts Sony a lot, it looks like an own goal for HD-DVD.
Will Toshiba hit a sub 500 Euro pricepoint?
It also looks like the first model to be designed as an actual HD-DVD player instead of a HTPC.
This first round is meaningless. The round that matters comes when normal geeks can afford to buy it ($300) and the round where normal people will consider it ($150 or lower).
Several more rounds to go. Round 2 begins when the PS3 and the other Blu-Ray players hit the market. Nothing is going to change this year.
Fewer discs isn't neccessarily a selling point. Heck, it might actually make the product less appealing to joe-sixpack.
Consumers don't really care if they have to switch discs every 8 hours instead of every 4 hours. They wouldn't argue with a player that could use higher capacity media. However, capacity just isn't what consumers are clamoring for. One moview or a few episodes per disc is good enough that anything better doesn't make much of a difference.
But the point is kind of mute anyway if an installed base of players can't physically play the new media. You'd have just the same transition as we're struggling to make today.
I'm still voting for divx on standard DL DVDs (or h.264). Better resolution than 99% of existing displays yet can be played on sub 100 dollar _existing_ hardware. Then we would have more time to come up with next gen formats that bennefit consumers as much as they will hollywood.
Fewer discs isn't neccessarily a selling point. Heck, it might actually make the product less appealing to joe-sixpack.
Consumers don't really care if they have to switch discs every 8 hours instead of every 4 hours. They wouldn't argue with a player that could use higher capacity media. However, capacity just isn't what consumers are clamoring for. One moview or a few episodes per disc is good enough that anything better doesn't make much of a difference.
But the point is kind of mute anyway if an installed base of players can't physically play the new media. You'd have just the same transition as we're struggling to make today.
I'm still voting for divx on standard DL DVDs (or h.264). Better resolution than 99% of existing displays yet can be played on sub 100 dollar _existing_ hardware. Then we would have more time to come up with next gen formats that bennefit consumers as much as they will hollywood.
Mmm, yeah, I beg to differ. I know many who would like to save the shelf space by consolidating multiple discs into one.
And good luck on your last paragraph, because it isn't going to happen.
Thanks to a flurry of recent release date announcements, Blu-ray appears to be catching up to HD DVD -- at least in terms of titles that are currently scheduled for release by the end of 2006.
HD DVD still retains its early lead (with 53 studio-released titles currently available vs 34 on Blu-ray), but with more new discs announced for release on Blu-ray between now and the end of the year than on HD DVD (40 HD DVD titles vs 52 Blu-ray titles), HD DVD's title count lead appears to be narrowing.
And while both camps are sure to announce more titles in the coming days and weeks, HD DVD is at a disadvantage now that two of the format's biggest distributors (Warner and Paramount) have begun rolling out Blu-ray editions of their films, while two of Blu-ray's biggest distributors (Disney and format backer Sony) are releasing titles *exclusively* on Blu-ray.
The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) appeared to be kicking their efforts into high gear last week, officially announcing support from Fox, unveiling a prototype 200GB multi-layer Blu-ray disc, and leaking tantalizing details about Sony's Blu-ray enabled PlayStation 3, due in stores this November.
Comments
Anyone Sprechen Si Deutsch so we can find out more info?
Liteon also announced a Blu-Ray player.
Aside from the occasional news release, this thread has pretty much degenerated into a “my format is better than yours”, “no it’s not”, with a few more realistic or semi-Ludite, your choice, “neither format is going to catch on in the next three to four years, if ever” thrown in.
I’m curious. Has anyone in this thread actually bought one of the HD/BR machines? If you buy DVDs for your personal collection, have you put off buying DVDs in the anticipation of the new formats or are you still purchasing new DVD releases that catch your eye?
I don't think there's anything wrong with the "my format's better than your" debates. For those who are kibitzing they are learning valuable info about the platform. I remember when the products hadn't even announed and I read multiple people stating that the superiority of Blu-Ray was so strong that HD DVD should just pack up and go home. They never foresaw troubles with 50GB DL BD-ROM discs causing Sony to ship bitstarved MPEG2 SL discs. They never saw the poor movie quality BD launch coming. They never saw Toshiba hitting the ground with a high quotient of high picture quality movies.
I think both formats are good and the differences really come down to minute feature advantages and overall cost. I'm looking forward to having both companies earn my business rather than just expect it by default
I don't think there's anything wrong with the "my format's better than your" debates. For those who are kibitzing they are learning valuable info about the platform. I remember when the products hadn't even announed and I read multiple people stating that the superiority of Blu-Ray was so strong that HD DVD should just pack up and go home. They never foresaw troubles with 50GB DL BD-ROM discs causing Sony to ship bitstarved MPEG2 SL discs. They never saw the poor movie quality BD launch coming. They never saw Toshiba hitting the ground with a high quotient of high picture quality movies.
Blu-Ray is a superior format but the launch was botched so badly I don't know if that matters anymore. If they don't get their act together soon HD-DVD will win and it will be their own damn fault. There is some good news:
"Kingdom of Heaven will be released on the dual-layered 50 GB BD-ROM discs (and may be the first such title, depending on Sony's TBA release plans). All of Fox's titles will sell for SRP $39.98. All will include DTS HD Lossless Master audio, and some (Behind Enemy Lines, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Speed) will be presented using the AVC (MPEG-4) video codec".
Regarding the 50GB discs the problem isn't really the discs themselves but the Samsung player which needs a firmware update to work with them. It shipped before the 50GB discs were finalized and testing was incomplete. The firmware update is not yet available so 50GB discs like Lawrence of Arabia and Black Hawk Down had to be delayed. I don't think the picture quality of the single layer Blu-Ray discs is related though. There is something else going on there. A 90 minute movie encoded in MPEG2 with 25GB of storage should look better. I suspect quick and dirty encoding to be the problem.
can you imagine 200gb single layer disk for backup??
http://news.portalit.net/fullnews_TD...Disc_1979.html
i think makes a big difference, i think blu ray just won
can you imagine 200gb single layer disk for backup??
http://news.portalit.net/fullnews_TD...Disc_1979.html
I can't see where a prototype with no release date constitutes a "win". I also don't know that sure to be extremely expensive drives and media sold as a backup solution will have much effect on the consumer home video market, any more than DAT backup drives have hastened the adoption of that format for consumer audio.
Outside of Beta in pro video, no Sony propriatery media has ever caught on.
If Apple, Dell, Panasonic, JVC, Mitsubishi, Pioneer, LG, Samsung, etc. and most Hollywood studios support Blu-Ray it can it be called proprietary? By this reasoning the Compact Disc or "CD" must have been a failure.
i think makes a big difference, i think blu ray just won
can you imagine 200gb single layer disk for backup??
http://news.portalit.net/fullnews_TD...Disc_1979.html
Single sided not single layer. I believe it has 8 layers. It's good though as Blu-Ray has room to grow.
I'd imagine that scenario would play out like this.
Customer walks in. Sees the lonely HD DVD player playing a great looking movie. They'd note the price $499 and then walk over to the Blu-Ray section.
They'd marvel at the picture quality and state that both formats look great. They'd admire the designs of the various Blu-Ray players and finally they'd pick their favorite and seek the price.
Uh oh
Sony BD player- $1000
Panasonic player- $1299
Pioneer $1499
Samsung $1000
Could they be looking at the right products? That lonely Toshiba had a great picture and was under $500. Why are these players twice as much? The Best Buy drone states that if the price is too high he could always buy a Playstation 3. More confusion. Why would he buy a game console to play movies?? Sure the price is cheaper but the question is if the PS3 is cheaper then why can't all the players be cheaper?
The potential customer leaves the store. Clearly HD isn't for him yet. An certainly not at $1000 or more for the players.
Customer walks into an electronics store circa 1984 and sees a lonely RCA Selectavision player at $300 with $30 discs. He heads over to the Laserdisc section but finds the players are double the price with $40 discs. Uh oh. Oh, wait. Guess which format lasted longer?
But hell, even current DL DVDs can fit HD movies. These formats aren't about what consumers want.
The price of Blu-Ray players needs to come down. If Sony can sell a PS3 for $499 that is both a Blu-Ray player and a game console then surely they can sell a standalone Blu-Ray player for the same amount.
Will Toshiba hit a sub 500 Euro pricepoint?
Toshiba is releasing HD-DVD in Europe on November 15th, just two days before the PS3 release. Now unless Toshiba undercuts Sony a lot, it looks like an own goal for HD-DVD.
Will Toshiba hit a sub 500 Euro pricepoint?
It also looks like the first model to be designed as an actual HD-DVD player instead of a HTPC.
This first round is meaningless. The round that matters comes when normal geeks can afford to buy it ($300) and the round where normal people will consider it ($150 or lower).
Several more rounds to go. Round 2 begins when the PS3 and the other Blu-Ray players hit the market. Nothing is going to change this year.
each layer is 33.3GB. Do you think that a dual-layer 66.6GB Blu-Ray disc could be read by
first-gen Blu-Ray players? An extra 36.6GB over the standard 30GB HD-DVD discs would be
considerably useful when they start upgrading tv shows & miniseries to HD. You would need half
as many Blu-Ray discs for a whole season of 24 or Band of Brothers.
Consumers don't really care if they have to switch discs every 8 hours instead of every 4 hours. They wouldn't argue with a player that could use higher capacity media. However, capacity just isn't what consumers are clamoring for. One moview or a few episodes per disc is good enough that anything better doesn't make much of a difference.
But the point is kind of mute anyway if an installed base of players can't physically play the new media. You'd have just the same transition as we're struggling to make today.
I'm still voting for divx on standard DL DVDs (or h.264). Better resolution than 99% of existing displays yet can be played on sub 100 dollar _existing_ hardware. Then we would have more time to come up with next gen formats that bennefit consumers as much as they will hollywood.
Fewer discs isn't neccessarily a selling point. Heck, it might actually make the product less appealing to joe-sixpack.
Consumers don't really care if they have to switch discs every 8 hours instead of every 4 hours. They wouldn't argue with a player that could use higher capacity media. However, capacity just isn't what consumers are clamoring for. One moview or a few episodes per disc is good enough that anything better doesn't make much of a difference.
But the point is kind of mute anyway if an installed base of players can't physically play the new media. You'd have just the same transition as we're struggling to make today.
I'm still voting for divx on standard DL DVDs (or h.264). Better resolution than 99% of existing displays yet can be played on sub 100 dollar _existing_ hardware. Then we would have more time to come up with next gen formats that bennefit consumers as much as they will hollywood.
Mmm, yeah, I beg to differ. I know many who would like to save the shelf space by consolidating multiple discs into one.
And good luck on your last paragraph, because it isn't going to happen.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...ith_HD_DVD/217
Blu-ray Closing the Gap with HD DVD?
Tue Sep 05, 2006 at 02:38 AM ET
Tags: Industry Forecasts (all tags)
Thanks to a flurry of recent release date announcements, Blu-ray appears to be catching up to HD DVD -- at least in terms of titles that are currently scheduled for release by the end of 2006.
HD DVD still retains its early lead (with 53 studio-released titles currently available vs 34 on Blu-ray), but with more new discs announced for release on Blu-ray between now and the end of the year than on HD DVD (40 HD DVD titles vs 52 Blu-ray titles), HD DVD's title count lead appears to be narrowing.
And while both camps are sure to announce more titles in the coming days and weeks, HD DVD is at a disadvantage now that two of the format's biggest distributors (Warner and Paramount) have begun rolling out Blu-ray editions of their films, while two of Blu-ray's biggest distributors (Disney and format backer Sony) are releasing titles *exclusively* on Blu-ray.
The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) appeared to be kicking their efforts into high gear last week, officially announcing support from Fox, unveiling a prototype 200GB multi-layer Blu-ray disc, and leaking tantalizing details about Sony's Blu-ray enabled PlayStation 3, due in stores this November.