New PB's Suspiciously low in price...?
First let me say that I'm just as excited about the new PB's as everyone... so excited that I'm putting myself through skull-breaking mathematical anguish to reorganize my low budget to be able to afford the freakin' thing.
Yet there is a lingering thought that has haunted me since day one: are these new PowerBooks too good to be true? I mean, seriously, can it be possible for these beauties to be this powerful and this cheap, and at the same time can we rest securely for at least six months without the fear that a faster, newer PB will come out with the same price tag as the top model?... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
[ 11-13-2002: Message edited by: RANSOMED ]
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Yet there is a lingering thought that has haunted me since day one: are these new PowerBooks too good to be true? I mean, seriously, can it be possible for these beauties to be this powerful and this cheap, and at the same time can we rest securely for at least six months without the fear that a faster, newer PB will come out with the same price tag as the top model?... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
[ 11-13-2002: Message edited by: RANSOMED ]
[ 11-13-2002: Message edited by: RANSOMED ]</p>
Comments
Considering that all of that tech exists now, it would be very, very slightly possible.
G4's have come down in price, that's the big thing. Given that all of Apple's desktops have two of 'em in the them, and they sell at the same price points as the prior lineup, which was not all dual cpu, I think it's safe to say that component costs for the new PBs were less than before.
Interestingly enough, given this update, I'd have to say that Apple is actually beating Moore's law. Hard to believe, but true. Intel has just been jumping the gun over the past 18 months.
<strong> full DDR mobos running 300/600 and 350/700 FSB's. They would have integrated 802.11a or g,
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...meaning...? (sorry, I only have a B.A. in Advertising)
<strong>
...meaning...? (sorry, I only have a B.A. in Advertising)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry.
The PPC 970, which you may or may not be familiar with, supposedly runs at a clock speed that's a fixed 2:1 multiplier of a DDR (double data rate) memory controller. So the Bus speed is 1/4 proc speed, memory speed 1/2 proc speed. If the clock on the proc is 1.2Ghz, the memory clock is 600Mhz, and the bus clock is 300Mhz.
802.11a is the 54Mbps, 5Ghz wireless ethernet protocol. 802.11b is what Apple currently sells (Airport). 802.11g is an improved version of 802.11b. (802.11a has a few drawbacks).
Bluetooth is a marketing term. I don't even know what the IEEE calls it. It's a radio on a chip, much like Airport, except that it's slower, tinier, and cheaper. Plus shorter range.
Component costs for powerbooks have always been low, they're not magically 'less' now. 800Mhz SOI G4 originally cost $125, (when 1Ghz SOI was tops) Really not expensive to begin with, though they're certainly cheaper now that the high end has moved to 1.25Ghz. LCD's ??? We know that so called cost increase was a sham. Every other system builder and manufacturer left their LCD prices alone, some even lowered them, and today, the prices continue to drop. RAM prices? Same story.
It's a pretty safe bet that Apple could sell the powerbooks at their Student developer prices and still make a decent profit margin, at least on the non-superdrive models.
<strong>Ummm, WTF is wrong with you people? They're not that cheap once you get past the novelty of the Superdrive. Entry powerbooks were once 2199 and have yet to return to that level. 2299 is better than the obscene 2499, but it only seems like progress because for the last few quarters Apple actually regressed. Powerbooks should be between 1999-2999, iBooks are just about right, though I wouldn't bother with the custom built 14".
Component costs for powerbooks have always been low, they're not magically 'less' now. 800Mhz SOI G4 originally cost $125, (when 1Ghz SOI was tops) Really not expensive to begin with, though they're certainly cheaper now that the high end has moved to 1.25Ghz. LCD's ??? We know that so called cost increase was a sham. Every other system builder and manufacturer left their LCD prices alone, some even lowered them, and today, the prices continue to drop. RAM prices? Same story.
It's a pretty safe bet that Apple could sell the powerbooks at their Student developer prices and still make a decent profit margin, at least on the non-superdrive models.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Matsu, could you, for once, STFU about this? We all know your stance and it's getting OLD.
Look at the thread topic: "suspiciously low," huh?
While they represent a move in the right direction, the profit margins are just as thickly padded as they've always been, which is fine, but you should not hold Apple to a different standard than any other system maker. In that light, there's nothing suspiciously low about their prices. They are, relative to other high-end books, similar in price. None of that desktop in a book/lan-party space heater stuff, but manufacturers like IBM, or Toshiba or even Sony, next to them you might say differentiation is a matter of taste. Some models cost more, others cost less. Specs vary, as do design choices -- Apple might choose a thin package and a sane LCD resolution, while Sony or IBM choose a slightly different specification. At the high end, I imagine a 1Ghz G4 probably aquits itself well against P4M's of te 1.7-1.9Ghz range. But you don't look at those machines and say their prices are suspiciously low. You look for prices to hold or drop. Some Apple consumers, OTOH, half expect prices to rise, as if we owe Apple a higher price. When Apple cautiously approaches competitive prices, relative to the whole industry, that's not suspiciously low pricing. It's good, but it also highlights how bad they have been.
So while the update is a nice one, it doesn't point to lasting progress unless Apple can string together a series of similar upgrades and consistently hold new lower prices over the long term.
The damage Apple has done to itself will not be repaired untill we have moved beyond saying, "That's good for an Apple," to just saying, "that's good."
<strong>and at the same time can we rest securely for at least six months without the fear that a faster, newer PB will come out with the same price tag as the top model?...</strong><hr></blockquote>
You can be guaranteed that there will be something better, faster, more features 6 months from now. This is the way of the world. Everyone waiting for the "perfect" computer before they buy...give up now.
Can you afford it? Do you need? Do you want it?
If yes, then buy it.
that, my friend, is an almost textbook example of a troll.
<strong>
You can be guaranteed that there will be something better, faster, more features 6 months from now. This is the way of the world. Everyone waiting for the "perfect" computer before they buy...give up now.
Can you afford it? Do you need? Do you want it?
If yes, then buy it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Chris, never expressed better. My sentiments exactly. This constant waiting for the next best thing is pointless. There will ALWAYS be something better. Get what you need, when you need it.
I am impressed with the PowerBook revision and may just pick one up if I can get a good deal. I am tired of looking at my iMac's fishbowl screen! Anyone wanna buy a Graphite iMac G3 with an 80GB Seagate 7200rpm HD, 1GB of RAM, Slot Loading CDRW Drive, Jaguar CD and the Harmon SoundSticks speaker/woofer set?
<strong>Too good to be true would be 1.2/1.4 Ghz 970 Powerbooks out now for the current prices, complete with full DDR mobos running 300/600 and 350/700 FSB's. They would have integrated 802.11a or g, integrated bluetooth.
Considering that all of that tech exists now, it would be very, very slightly possible.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Uhm, PPC970 and 802.11g does not exist, and considering that 802.11a isn't compatible with 802.11b, Apple should wait for 802.11g
<strong>lol, Matsu, you've reached the point where even when Apple is doing what you've ranted about for ages you're not happy, and have to find something else to complain about.
that, my friend, is an almost textbook example of a troll.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not really complaining about what Apple has done, just the reception it's getting. It's nice, but hardly earth shaking, nor is the price suspiciously low, unless you mean by Apple's uniquely overpriced position.
Now get off my bridge!