Well... I agree with your logic, but highly doubt that there will be a HD in the device (i.e. 30 Gb iPod). I would say likely a 2 or 4 Gb, so $149 to $199. Since the iPod and phone will share some of the hardware, I could reason adding $50 to make it a PhonePod. Thus $200 to $250... maybe $300 for a pro model.
I think anything over $300 would kill the product for a large number of people.
-Clive
Yeah, addabox, what Clive said.
I doubt there'll be an iPhone based on the (relatively) huge iPod 5.5Gen device; it'll be based most likely on the nano. Actually, because it will be adding phone functionality and will need a decent battery, it might look a lot physically like the iPod mini--about that size, I'm thinking. Which is great--because that's what I own now.
<edit>
I'm also hoping it uses the same connector, so that I can charge it in my car and connect it to my Alpine car stereo. That way it would be a 100% replacement for my iPod mini and cell phone.
I understand the candy-bar/slider thing except that I would so much prefer a flip phone. Flips allow for larger screens, and protect the screen when in the pocket. My candybar phones over-all have been okay, but I always go back to flips. I had a Treo for the longest time, and besides the crappy sound quality it was great, but would have been much better as a flip as well.
When the rumours were development with Softbank, then I was really excited that it was going to be a flip because the Japanese market is predominantly flips. The ideal situation is for Apple to just release phones in both form factors with the same functionality.
As for price, they can basically charge maybe $100 over the equivalent iPod price I think if they are going unsubsidized.
If they launch an MVNO, which I doubt, then they need flat unlimited data and decent voice plans as most people are all about who has the cheapest service.
Bikertwin, you bring up a good point: if they include a dock connector, the iPhone could potentially use a lot of the same accessories as the iPod mini (or whatever iPod model it most closely resembles).
As far as carriers go, I think Apple will do the MVNO thing because they want to control the whole platform (hardware + software + service) and companies like Verizon are notorious for crippling devices to protect their own profits.
iPhone candybar - the phone you'll want to put in your mouth
Eintstein -The smartest smart phone ever, even better than a Newton.
I don't know if they'll launch at the same time, but i'm sure apple understands that cell phone users have a broad range on needs and will make multiple models to meet those needs.
Well... I agree with your logic, but highly doubt that there will be a HD in the device (i.e. 30 Gb iPod). I would say likely a 2 or 4 Gb, so $149 to $199. Since the iPod and phone will share some of the hardware, I could reason adding $50 to make it a PhonePod. Thus $200 to $250... maybe $300 for a pro model.
I think anything over $300 would kill the product for a large number of people.
-Clive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikertwin
Yeah, addabox, what Clive said.
I doubt there'll be an iPhone based on the (relatively) huge iPod 5.5Gen device; it'll be based most likely on the nano. Actually, because it will be adding phone functionality and will need a decent battery, it might look a lot physically like the iPod mini--about that size, I'm thinking. Which is great--because that's what I own now.
I'm also hoping it uses the same connector, so that I can charge it in my car and connect it to my Alpine car stereo. That way it would be a 100% replacement for my iPod mini and cell phone.
Agreed.
So it all depends on which "iPod" format is used as the basis for the phone. Again, I think Apple will go out of its way to maintain "iPodness", probably putting it in the product matrix along with the other iPods.
So if it is a 4 gig flash in a mini type body with a larger than Nano screen, I put that at roughly $200 "worth" of iPod, and figuring a $50 premium for "phoneness" you have your $250 iPhone, which I think would be an easy sell even with carrier subsidies on other phones, since a phone is a lot to get with your iPod for an extra $50.
I agree that even with the iPod pricing structure much over $250 is going to be a problem, unless Apple goes with something like the black 8 gig Nano as the starting place (to preserve the iPhone's position as a "premium" iPod) in which case $300 is a back to a pretty comfortable upsell.
I could see Apple doing this to avoid cannibalizing Nano sales by putting too much iPod in a phone that is too close in price to the middle ground.
Virtually impossible, but Apple would score a real knockout punch if they made it all-band, compatible with every carrier network in the US.
And considering the Apple/Google alliance, it'd be great to be able to view Google maps onto the screen, positioned by an internal GPS receiver. Unfortunately, Google maps are so massive that they'd be fairly slow to load even on any variation of 3G network.
Not all of the systems use the same frequencies, which makes this difficult. Basically, the hardware will in all likelihood be Cingular/T-mobile/Europe or Sprint/Verizon/Asia. Perhaps two kinds will be available, but if a mobile download service is to be useful at all, it's going to have to be the latter.
I expect that the phone will be priced slightly ahead of the Nano, and will come in 4 and 8GB models. The only differences are buttons, the use of a different ARM processor with cellular hardware built-in (such as OMAP), and a radio.
The Treo p and w are available on Sprint as well, and have been for a while. The HTC is available at least on Sprint, and has been for even longer. With errors on such major models, what else is wrong there?
I'm also hoping it uses the same connector, so that I can charge it in my car and connect it to my Alpine car stereo. That way it would be a 100% replacement for my iPod mini and cell phone.
I can't see Apple not including one. It seems as though it would be cutting too many avenue's off.
Apple will not pull in as many people for anything over $300, only the really hard-core folk. That isn't Apple's target market. Think of the iPod. Yes, Apple is trying to market it to everyone, but the people who are REALLY into it are the young adults/college-aged. A device that is an iPod/cell phone would/(should?) be aimed at the same market. Let me tell you that if the iPhone is $300, no one in this age-group is going to buy it. No one at all.
If Apple MUST make an expensive "smart phone," I hope to Trogdor that they make it a "pro" model phone above and beyond the entry level option of a more bare-bones iPhone/iPod... PhonePod if you will. Hey, I like that name.... "PhonePod." and TelePort for the iTV. Apple should hire me to name their stuff.
I don't buy that logic one bit. We spend $200 on a RAZR and $250 on a nano. That's $450 for two devices. I would gladly spend $350 and without hesitation up to $450 just to eliminate one device from my pocket. This is the rationale.
I don't mean to sound too thin-skinned (well, I am brown-skinned), but these "brown jokes" are, for some reason, beginning to get to me.
Wilco's exaggerated response was satire, poking fun at Denton's comment as being immature or childish. I would tell you to lighten up, but I'm afraid you'd take it the wrong way...
Wilco's exaggerated response was satire, poking fun at Denton's comment as being immature or childish. I would tell you to lighten up, but I'm afraid you'd take it the wrong way...
My take on Denton's comment was that it was highlighting MS's incredible lack of selfawareness to come out with a geek-brown colored device which is aimed at a competitor who is at this very moment running a highly successful series of TV commercials based on the idea that MS products are geek-brown-like (compared to the 'coolness' of Apple).
It's almost like admitting, 'yeah, we're geeky, and here's a geeky looking, geeky-colored device to prove it, that only the geeks will want to use, while the cool guys in school use iPods, oh, and by the way, you can do geeky things like wirelessly share DRM infected tracks , enabling you to monetize your geeky-friends and help MS's revenue stream'.
Can you imagine the design meeting where they came up with the colours:
'Well, we've got the have black & white, cos Apple has them, but we need, wait-for-it, one other color to give us a fantastic unique selling point. What color do you think will really blow them away, really show that we're doing some thing new, original and exciting? Hey, geeky-looking-bald-dude with the earing and dodgy suit, what do you think?"
Allard, for it is he, "Well, I really like the color of the Jacket & Slacks that the cool-looking-dude in those Apple ads is wearing, let's go with that, after all if Apple uses it, it must be cool!"
Hey, presto, the geeks have their color of choice!
Most comments seem to assume that the iPhone will be Nano based. I have to wonder if it might instead be based on the 5g iPods.
Since the current prices are lower than when they first came out, haven't we already illustrated a willingness to pay more? Adding phone functionality and taking the price back up to original levels (or a little above) would seem to be acceptable to some large share of this market. Plus, users of these devices have the most to gain - carrying a large iPod and Phone is more of a pain than carrying a Nano/shuffle and phone. Additionally, adding phone functionality to the larger iPods would seem to have the smaller impact on the form factor and big phone makers really don't have hard drive based solutions.
One last point. I'm wondering if anyone has used the newly added "search" function - would this be an acceptable solution for interfacing with the phone? Obviously text messaging would be out of the question but it would seem to work for entering phone numbers, scrolling through a list of contacts, and "typing" in a persons name on those few occassions when you actually do add new phone numbers.
Also, I would assume that most people using the larger iPods are older and probably don't do a lot of text messaging and so wouldn't miss this feature. Any thoughts?
Since the current prices are lower than when they first came out, haven't we already illustrated a willingness to pay more? Adding phone functionality and taking the price back up to original levels (or a little above) would seem to be acceptable to some large share of this market. Plus, users of these devices have the most to gain - carrying a large iPod and Phone is more of a pain than carrying a Nano/shuffle and phone. Additionally, adding phone functionality to the larger iPods would seem to have the smaller impact on the form factor and big phone makers really don't have hard drive based solutions.
<snip>
Also, I would assume that most people using the larger iPods are older and probably don't do a lot of text messaging and so wouldn't miss this feature. Any thoughts?
You make some great points.
For inputing telephone numbers, I wonder if the design will be something along the lines of "0 - 9" printed on the outer edges of the click-wheel (that one can scroll and press).
Text, however, would be difficult to input in that fashion. Re. your last point, regardless of age of user, text messaging will be a sine qua non of design if Apple wants to sell the phone outside the US.
I have one great fear about the ever imminent 'iPhone'. I fear that all of the garbage associated with the other phones on the market?annoying ringtones, stupid screensavers and the like?will be associated with the Apple brand. I'd hate to see that kind of crap on Apple phones. Hopefully it will not be capable of playing music through a loudspeaker like so many phones can. It doesn't help that I don't like R&B. I sound like a grumpy old man, and I'm only 16, but I feel that I have taste, unlike so many of my peers. And I know that if one is released, I will see all of this. IMO, it's a bleak future for an otherwise untarnished (that's a matter of opinion) brand.
I have one great fear about the ever imminent 'iPhone'. I fear that all of the garbage associated with the other phones on the market—annoying ringtones, stupid screensavers and the like—will be associated with the Apple brand. I'd hate to see that kind of crap on Apple phones. Hopefully it will not be capable of playing music through a loudspeaker like so many phones can. It doesn't help that I don't like R&B. I sound like a grumpy old man, and I'm only 16, but I feel that I have taste, unlike so many of my peers. And I know that if one is released, I will see all of this. IMO, it's a bleak future for an otherwise untarnished (that's a matter of opinion) brand.
One bit of garbage that will be coming down the pike, just in case anyone here in the US has not heard, is that as of just about now, cell phone numbers will be released to telemarketing companies for the first time. When they call, besides the unpleasantness of it, you WILL be billed for those calls.
If you don't want that to happen, do what I did.
Call 888-382-1222 from your cell phone. Every phone in your household will have to have this done. This will get you on the Do Not Call list for 5 years.
Comments
Well... I agree with your logic, but highly doubt that there will be a HD in the device (i.e. 30 Gb iPod). I would say likely a 2 or 4 Gb, so $149 to $199. Since the iPod and phone will share some of the hardware, I could reason adding $50 to make it a PhonePod. Thus $200 to $250... maybe $300 for a pro model.
I think anything over $300 would kill the product for a large number of people.
-Clive
Yeah, addabox, what Clive said.
I doubt there'll be an iPhone based on the (relatively) huge iPod 5.5Gen device; it'll be based most likely on the nano. Actually, because it will be adding phone functionality and will need a decent battery, it might look a lot physically like the iPod mini--about that size, I'm thinking. Which is great--because that's what I own now.
<edit>
I'm also hoping it uses the same connector, so that I can charge it in my car and connect it to my Alpine car stereo. That way it would be a 100% replacement for my iPod mini and cell phone.
</edit>
When the rumours were development with Softbank, then I was really excited that it was going to be a flip because the Japanese market is predominantly flips. The ideal situation is for Apple to just release phones in both form factors with the same functionality.
As for price, they can basically charge maybe $100 over the equivalent iPod price I think if they are going unsubsidized.
If they launch an MVNO, which I doubt, then they need flat unlimited data and decent voice plans as most people are all about who has the cheapest service.
As far as carriers go, I think Apple will do the MVNO thing because they want to control the whole platform (hardware + software + service) and companies like Verizon are notorious for crippling devices to protect their own profits.
http://skangerland.blogspot.com/2006...ob-one-of.html
iPhone candybar - the phone you'll want to put in your mouth
Eintstein -The smartest smart phone ever, even better than a Newton.
I don't know if they'll launch at the same time, but i'm sure apple understands that cell phone users have a broad range on needs and will make multiple models to meet those needs.
http://skangerland.blogspot.com/2006...ob-one-of.html
Thats actually quite clever but, the numbers should be positioned like on a clock.
I doubt any iPhone will run OSX but i wouldn't be surprised to see widgets on an iPhone.
Well... I agree with your logic, but highly doubt that there will be a HD in the device (i.e. 30 Gb iPod). I would say likely a 2 or 4 Gb, so $149 to $199. Since the iPod and phone will share some of the hardware, I could reason adding $50 to make it a PhonePod. Thus $200 to $250... maybe $300 for a pro model.
I think anything over $300 would kill the product for a large number of people.
-Clive
Yeah, addabox, what Clive said.
I doubt there'll be an iPhone based on the (relatively) huge iPod 5.5Gen device; it'll be based most likely on the nano. Actually, because it will be adding phone functionality and will need a decent battery, it might look a lot physically like the iPod mini--about that size, I'm thinking. Which is great--because that's what I own now.
I'm also hoping it uses the same connector, so that I can charge it in my car and connect it to my Alpine car stereo. That way it would be a 100% replacement for my iPod mini and cell phone.
Agreed.
So it all depends on which "iPod" format is used as the basis for the phone. Again, I think Apple will go out of its way to maintain "iPodness", probably putting it in the product matrix along with the other iPods.
So if it is a 4 gig flash in a mini type body with a larger than Nano screen, I put that at roughly $200 "worth" of iPod, and figuring a $50 premium for "phoneness" you have your $250 iPhone, which I think would be an easy sell even with carrier subsidies on other phones, since a phone is a lot to get with your iPod for an extra $50.
I agree that even with the iPod pricing structure much over $250 is going to be a problem, unless Apple goes with something like the black 8 gig Nano as the starting place (to preserve the iPhone's position as a "premium" iPod) in which case $300 is a back to a pretty comfortable upsell.
I could see Apple doing this to avoid cannibalizing Nano sales by putting too much iPod in a phone that is too close in price to the middle ground.
Virtually impossible, but Apple would score a real knockout punch if they made it all-band, compatible with every carrier network in the US.
And considering the Apple/Google alliance, it'd be great to be able to view Google maps onto the screen, positioned by an internal GPS receiver. Unfortunately, Google maps are so massive that they'd be fairly slow to load even on any variation of 3G network.
Not all of the systems use the same frequencies, which makes this difficult. Basically, the hardware will in all likelihood be Cingular/T-mobile/Europe or Sprint/Verizon/Asia. Perhaps two kinds will be available, but if a mobile download service is to be useful at all, it's going to have to be the latter.
I expect that the phone will be priced slightly ahead of the Nano, and will come in 4 and 8GB models. The only differences are buttons, the use of a different ARM processor with cellular hardware built-in (such as OMAP), and a radio.
The Treo p and w are available on Sprint as well, and have been for a while. The HTC is available at least on Sprint, and has been for even longer. With errors on such major models, what else is wrong there?
I'm also hoping it uses the same connector, so that I can charge it in my car and connect it to my Alpine car stereo. That way it would be a 100% replacement for my iPod mini and cell phone.
I can't see Apple not including one. It seems as though it would be cutting too many avenue's off.
Because brown is like poo!!!!1!
I don't mean to sound too thin-skinned (well, I am brown-skinned), but these "brown jokes" are, for some reason, beginning to get to me.
I realize that brown does not have the elan of black or white on a consumer electronics product, but hey, give it a rest.....
Apple will not pull in as many people for anything over $300, only the really hard-core folk. That isn't Apple's target market. Think of the iPod. Yes, Apple is trying to market it to everyone, but the people who are REALLY into it are the young adults/college-aged. A device that is an iPod/cell phone would/(should?) be aimed at the same market. Let me tell you that if the iPhone is $300, no one in this age-group is going to buy it. No one at all.
If Apple MUST make an expensive "smart phone," I hope to Trogdor that they make it a "pro" model phone above and beyond the entry level option of a more bare-bones iPhone/iPod... PhonePod if you will. Hey, I like that name.... "PhonePod." and TelePort for the iTV. Apple should hire me to name their stuff.
I don't buy that logic one bit. We spend $200 on a RAZR and $250 on a nano. That's $450 for two devices. I would gladly spend $350 and without hesitation up to $450 just to eliminate one device from my pocket. This is the rationale.
I don't mean to sound too thin-skinned (well, I am brown-skinned), but these "brown jokes" are, for some reason, beginning to get to me.
Wilco's exaggerated response was satire, poking fun at Denton's comment as being immature or childish. I would tell you to lighten up, but I'm afraid you'd take it the wrong way...
Wilco's exaggerated response was satire, poking fun at Denton's comment as being immature or childish. I would tell you to lighten up, but I'm afraid you'd take it the wrong way...
My take on Denton's comment was that it was highlighting MS's incredible lack of selfawareness to come out with a geek-brown colored device which is aimed at a competitor who is at this very moment running a highly successful series of TV commercials based on the idea that MS products are geek-brown-like (compared to the 'coolness' of Apple).
It's almost like admitting, 'yeah, we're geeky, and here's a geeky looking, geeky-colored device to prove it, that only the geeks will want to use, while the cool guys in school use iPods, oh, and by the way, you can do geeky things like wirelessly share DRM infected tracks , enabling you to monetize your geeky-friends and help MS's revenue stream'.
Can you imagine the design meeting where they came up with the colours:
'Well, we've got the have black & white, cos Apple has them, but we need, wait-for-it, one other color to give us a fantastic unique selling point. What color do you think will really blow them away, really show that we're doing some thing new, original and exciting? Hey, geeky-looking-bald-dude with the earing and dodgy suit, what do you think?"
Allard, for it is he, "Well, I really like the color of the Jacket & Slacks that the cool-looking-dude in those Apple ads is wearing, let's go with that, after all if Apple uses it, it must be cool!"
Hey, presto, the geeks have their color of choice!
8) 8) 8)
Wilco's exaggerated response was satire
"Poo" as satire.... wow!
I would tell you to lighten up....
Touche!
PS: I eagerly clicked on your link to see what a brown iPod might look like..... but all I saw was baby pics! (Ha Ha...... now, that is satire!).
Since the current prices are lower than when they first came out, haven't we already illustrated a willingness to pay more? Adding phone functionality and taking the price back up to original levels (or a little above) would seem to be acceptable to some large share of this market. Plus, users of these devices have the most to gain - carrying a large iPod and Phone is more of a pain than carrying a Nano/shuffle and phone. Additionally, adding phone functionality to the larger iPods would seem to have the smaller impact on the form factor and big phone makers really don't have hard drive based solutions.
One last point. I'm wondering if anyone has used the newly added "search" function - would this be an acceptable solution for interfacing with the phone? Obviously text messaging would be out of the question but it would seem to work for entering phone numbers, scrolling through a list of contacts, and "typing" in a persons name on those few occassions when you actually do add new phone numbers.
Also, I would assume that most people using the larger iPods are older and probably don't do a lot of text messaging and so wouldn't miss this feature. Any thoughts?
Since the current prices are lower than when they first came out, haven't we already illustrated a willingness to pay more? Adding phone functionality and taking the price back up to original levels (or a little above) would seem to be acceptable to some large share of this market. Plus, users of these devices have the most to gain - carrying a large iPod and Phone is more of a pain than carrying a Nano/shuffle and phone. Additionally, adding phone functionality to the larger iPods would seem to have the smaller impact on the form factor and big phone makers really don't have hard drive based solutions.
<snip>
Also, I would assume that most people using the larger iPods are older and probably don't do a lot of text messaging and so wouldn't miss this feature. Any thoughts?
You make some great points.
For inputing telephone numbers, I wonder if the design will be something along the lines of "0 - 9" printed on the outer edges of the click-wheel (that one can scroll and press).
Text, however, would be difficult to input in that fashion. Re. your last point, regardless of age of user, text messaging will be a sine qua non of design if Apple wants to sell the phone outside the US.
I have one great fear about the ever imminent 'iPhone'. I fear that all of the garbage associated with the other phones on the market—annoying ringtones, stupid screensavers and the like—will be associated with the Apple brand. I'd hate to see that kind of crap on Apple phones. Hopefully it will not be capable of playing music through a loudspeaker like so many phones can. It doesn't help that I don't like R&B. I sound like a grumpy old man, and I'm only 16, but I feel that I have taste, unlike so many of my peers. And I know that if one is released, I will see all of this. IMO, it's a bleak future for an otherwise untarnished (that's a matter of opinion) brand.
One bit of garbage that will be coming down the pike, just in case anyone here in the US has not heard, is that as of just about now, cell phone numbers will be released to telemarketing companies for the first time. When they call, besides the unpleasantness of it, you WILL be billed for those calls.
If you don't want that to happen, do what I did.
Call 888-382-1222 from your cell phone. Every phone in your household will have to have this done. This will get you on the Do Not Call list for 5 years.
You can go to;
https://www.donotcall.gov/default.aspx
I hope this helps.
The iPhone Shuffle... dials people up at random...
I want it now in Brown!