So far the reasons for Apple not becoming a PVR provider seem more convincing to me than the reasons why they would.
A lot of people seem to be ignoring that a PVR is more than just the hardware. It's a safe bet that typical customers expect reasonably reliable program guides. Based on feedback I've heard from EyeTV customers that's not necessarily as trivial as it may seem or even impossible depending on your location. Even without being well informed on the topic I know there are technical, economic, and political issues relating to program guides. I'm not saying any are insurmountable, just doubting that Apple wants to get involved in that business, at least not while the iTunes Store is their digital media showcase and there are already third parties (like Elgato) capable of doing it or trying to.
Exactly. Let someone else mess with the PVR duties while Apple sells the shows.
It looks like your applauding Apple for taking advantage of you.
I don't think Apple is taking advantage of anyone just because they don't include a PVR in their computers. Sure, I wish they did and I know I can order one from Dell, but then your back to Microsoft. As far as sellin TV shows, I guess some people don't want to mess with setting up a PVR to record them and Apple is filling their need. The only shows I would pay for are ones I can't record myself. I'm not that lazy.
I'm passing on the whole Apple iTV thing myself. I don't like how they tackled the whole thing at all. I think they have consciously chosen to side with "Big Business" and financial interests rather than what would best for their users. I think Apple just turned a corner in their strategy and basically sold out the user. By trying their hand at a whole new delivery system while having it excluding more free aspects for their users they have obviously stopped looking at our best interests, and turned into everything they used to stand against. IMO.
I'm actually looking at a ThinkPad from Lenovo now instead of a Mac product. I used to think it was all about the OS, but now I think it has a lot more to do with what product do I like, and who I am buying from. Or in this case who am I not buying from.
I'm passing on the whole Apple iTV thing myself. I don't like how they tackled the whole thing at all. I think they have consciously chosen to side with "Big Business" and financial interests rather than what would best for their users. I think Apple just turned a corner in their strategy and basically sold out the user. By trying their hand at a whole new delivery system while having it excluding more free aspects for their users they have obviously stopped looking at our best interests, and turned into everything they used to stand against. IMO.
I'm actually looking at a ThinkPad from Lenovo now instead of a Mac product. I used to think it was all about the OS, but now I think it has a lot more to do with what product do I like, and who I am buying from. Or in this case who am I not buying from.
Don't feel too disappointed in Apple. They are, after all, in the business to make money, and doing it in a way thats a little different than the folks over in Redmond. Hollywood studios are so afraid people are going to steal their content now (because people have been) that everything is going this way. Look at what Sony's CD copy protection did! The thing that would kill iTV and made me pissed at them is if Apple made it so you could only stream content you bought from them, not stuff you recorded for free say with an Elgato. Then I would definately rethink Jobs and Company.
I'm passing on the whole Apple iTV thing myself. I don't like how they tackled the whole thing at all. I think they have consciously chosen to side with "Big Business" and financial interests rather than what would best for their users. I think Apple just turned a corner in their strategy and basically sold out the user. By trying their hand at a whole new delivery system while having it excluding more free aspects for their users they have obviously stopped looking at our best interests, and turned into everything they used to stand against. IMO.
I'm actually looking at a ThinkPad from Lenovo now instead of a Mac product. I used to think it was all about the OS, but now I think it has a lot more to do with what product do I like, and who I am buying from. Or in this case who am I not buying from.
Apple, like every other company, like the Chinese government controlled Lenovo, does whatever they can. They certainly are not taking advantage of their customers by selling movies at a price that is as low as they possibly can, something that is not under their control.
There is no reason why Apple should sell a PVR. The ones on the Windows platform sold so badly when they came as part of the systems, that most manufacturers have removed them. Now most have to be cought seperately, and sales aren't too hot.
Most people don't seem to want them. So should Apple follow in the path of presenting something that others are rejecting?
This might change in the future. But since one can get an Elgato, and others, it really isn't too bad for those who want one.
I'm passing on the whole Apple iTV thing myself. I don't like how they tackled the whole thing at all. I think they have consciously chosen to side with "Big Business" and financial interests rather than what would best for their users.
Apple is siding against it customers because they will not develop a DVR? You are basing this all on the point that Apple is not going to make hardware that allows you to record television?
Apple does nothing to stop third party products from giving the Mac this very functionality. Can we grasp a little rationality here.
I'm passing on the whole Apple iTV thing myself. I don't like how they tackled the whole thing at all. I think they have consciously chosen to side with "Big Business" and financial interests rather than what would best for their users. I think Apple just turned a corner in their strategy and basically sold out the user. By trying their hand at a whole new delivery system while having it excluding more free aspects for their users they have obviously stopped looking at our best interests, and turned into everything they used to stand against. IMO.
I'm actually looking at a ThinkPad from Lenovo now instead of a Mac product. I used to think it was all about the OS, but now I think it has a lot more to do with what product do I like, and who I am buying from. Or in this case who am I not buying from.
I know how you feel. I went down the same road, though in reverse, I guess.
I used to buy Macs because they were alternative, and I viewed Apple as a different kind of company. I wanted to support that. Sure the OS was great and the hardware was nice, but there were several times there in the 90s when it was a real pain in the neck to use Macs.
My moment of greatest disillusion came years ago when the free iTools became the for-pay .Mac. Man, I remember being furious. I even discouraged my brother from buying the iBook I had previously been talking up (he did end up buying it, but he did a bit more shopping around). Of course, then I had the quite obvious revelation that Apple was simply a company. A company whose products I found useful and enjoyed using--at least more than the alternatives.
To me, it is now all about my productivity and my lack of frustration. Right now, I'll stick with Apple. If something better comes along, and I can be more productive and less frustrated, I may switch. I'm no longer simply a "fan" of Apple's products. (And I know that if I were in the same mindset I was years ago, I would be using a G5 iMac right now instead of a 5-year-old G4 Quicksilver (so, ironically, their being tightwads led me to spend less money on their products).) But I think I'm a better consumer.
On the subject at hand, iTV is a non-issue for me as well. Not because of the lack of a DVR, but because I don't have one of those "big screens" and won't anytime soon. I'll be disappointed if iTV is the only media device Apple intros in the winter.
Of course, then I had the quite obvious revelation that Apple was simply a company. A company whose products I found useful and enjoyed using--at least more than the alternatives.
Wow! You grew up!
That should happen more around here. Apple is not a cult. It's a company that produces products.
If one likes them, then buy them, if one doesn't, then don't.
I put the same stock in Iger's comments about the iTV that Jobs said about the Segway (anyone remember these famous words?... "They'll design cities around them!")
"If enough people see the machine you won't have to convince them to architect cities around it. It'll just happen." -- Apple CEO Steve Jobs on the Segway
Very true a great deal of Apple's success is because people grow an emotional bond. Steve Jobs does foster this with the way he markets the brand.
At the same time Apple cannot run its business only by the emotional whelms of its customers. They need to do what makes most the business sense and will make the most profit in the long term.
No the frame rate was the same. NTSC only has one frame rate. Your computer is not really ideal for judging video quality of NTSC.
NTSC is 720x480 pixels if you are watching that full screen on a computer monitor, you spread 720x480 pixels over 1280x1024 pixels (or even more) the image is going to be degraded.
I watch cable television on my computer. At full screen the picture is noticeably worse than on my television for this very reason. On top of that not all computer monitors are created equal some are crappier than others.
If the iTunes movies are being encoded from an HD source MPEG 4 is much more efficient at compressing video and maintaining good quality than the MPEG 2 DVD's are being encoded with.
I would go further. Pirates of the Caribbean is a big movie that had views of large ocean vistas. It was framed and composed and intended for the big screen. Because of this it is not very satisfactory to watch on television. Unless you have a large enough screen to watch it in its proper 2.40:1 aspect ratio.
The issue here is... he's probably the average user/buyer. If his experience sucked, then this whole iTV concept is premature. Hell, it's stillborn.
That should happen more around here. Apple is not a cult. It's a company that produces products.
If one likes them, then buy them, if one doesn't, then don't.
True. It's silly to think back about what I thought about Apple, especially considering I'm probably more aware than most people of the "electronic sweatshop" in Asia that underpins the whole economic base of America's [sic] technological prowess.
But that's what disillusionment is always like. As with any magician's trick, if you don't know how it's done, then it seems wonderful; once you see the trick, then it's impossible to ignore it.
The issue here is... he's probably the average user/buyer. If his experience sucked, then this whole iTV concept is premature. Hell, it's stillborn.
The fact that he's watching NTSC full screen on a computer monitor has nothing to do with the concept of iTV. iTV is for watching NTCS on your TV.
Quote:
Other things I've grown disillusioned with
That's funny. In college when I first became exposed to people around my age who were more cynical than I is when I lost my innocence of that magic of the world around me.
I'm probably more aware than most people of the "electronic sweatshop" in Asia that underpins the whole economic base of America's [sic] technological prowess.
The WORLD'S prowess. Also, most of what is done there is invented here. There's a big difference.
Chine is looking to see a big fall in the not too far away future. An interesting article in either the Times or the WSJ Monday (I forget which).
"If enough people see the machine you won't have to convince them to architect cities around it. It'll just happen." -- Apple CEO Steve Jobs on the Segway
He did use the words "if enough" but since they cost so much, no one has seen enough of them.
Comments
It just occurred to me, what if the USB port is for attaching an optional Blu-ray or HD-DVD drive.
or for attaching a usb tv tuner/decoder like the new one from elgto...
So far the reasons for Apple not becoming a PVR provider seem more convincing to me than the reasons why they would.
A lot of people seem to be ignoring that a PVR is more than just the hardware. It's a safe bet that typical customers expect reasonably reliable program guides. Based on feedback I've heard from EyeTV customers that's not necessarily as trivial as it may seem or even impossible depending on your location. Even without being well informed on the topic I know there are technical, economic, and political issues relating to program guides. I'm not saying any are insurmountable, just doubting that Apple wants to get involved in that business, at least not while the iTunes Store is their digital media showcase and there are already third parties (like Elgato) capable of doing it or trying to.
Exactly. Let someone else mess with the PVR duties while Apple sells the shows.
Exactly. Let someone else mess with the PVR duties while Apple sells the shows.
It looks like your applauding Apple for taking advantage of you.
It looks like your applauding Apple for taking advantage of you.
I don't think Apple is taking advantage of anyone just because they don't include a PVR in their computers. Sure, I wish they did and I know I can order one from Dell, but then your back to Microsoft. As far as sellin TV shows, I guess some people don't want to mess with setting up a PVR to record them and Apple is filling their need. The only shows I would pay for are ones I can't record myself. I'm not that lazy.
I'm actually looking at a ThinkPad from Lenovo now instead of a Mac product. I used to think it was all about the OS, but now I think it has a lot more to do with what product do I like, and who I am buying from. Or in this case who am I not buying from.
I'm passing on the whole Apple iTV thing myself. I don't like how they tackled the whole thing at all. I think they have consciously chosen to side with "Big Business" and financial interests rather than what would best for their users. I think Apple just turned a corner in their strategy and basically sold out the user. By trying their hand at a whole new delivery system while having it excluding more free aspects for their users they have obviously stopped looking at our best interests, and turned into everything they used to stand against. IMO.
I'm actually looking at a ThinkPad from Lenovo now instead of a Mac product. I used to think it was all about the OS, but now I think it has a lot more to do with what product do I like, and who I am buying from. Or in this case who am I not buying from.
Don't feel too disappointed in Apple. They are, after all, in the business to make money, and doing it in a way thats a little different than the folks over in Redmond. Hollywood studios are so afraid people are going to steal their content now (because people have been) that everything is going this way. Look at what Sony's CD copy protection did! The thing that would kill iTV and made me pissed at them is if Apple made it so you could only stream content you bought from them, not stuff you recorded for free say with an Elgato. Then I would definately rethink Jobs and Company.
I'm passing on the whole Apple iTV thing myself. I don't like how they tackled the whole thing at all. I think they have consciously chosen to side with "Big Business" and financial interests rather than what would best for their users. I think Apple just turned a corner in their strategy and basically sold out the user. By trying their hand at a whole new delivery system while having it excluding more free aspects for their users they have obviously stopped looking at our best interests, and turned into everything they used to stand against. IMO.
I'm actually looking at a ThinkPad from Lenovo now instead of a Mac product. I used to think it was all about the OS, but now I think it has a lot more to do with what product do I like, and who I am buying from. Or in this case who am I not buying from.
Apple, like every other company, like the Chinese government controlled Lenovo, does whatever they can. They certainly are not taking advantage of their customers by selling movies at a price that is as low as they possibly can, something that is not under their control.
There is no reason why Apple should sell a PVR. The ones on the Windows platform sold so badly when they came as part of the systems, that most manufacturers have removed them. Now most have to be cought seperately, and sales aren't too hot.
Most people don't seem to want them. So should Apple follow in the path of presenting something that others are rejecting?
This might change in the future. But since one can get an Elgato, and others, it really isn't too bad for those who want one.
I'm passing on the whole Apple iTV thing myself. I don't like how they tackled the whole thing at all. I think they have consciously chosen to side with "Big Business" and financial interests rather than what would best for their users.
Apple is siding against it customers because they will not develop a DVR? You are basing this all on the point that Apple is not going to make hardware that allows you to record television?
Apple does nothing to stop third party products from giving the Mac this very functionality. Can we grasp a little rationality here.
I'm passing on the whole Apple iTV thing myself. I don't like how they tackled the whole thing at all. I think they have consciously chosen to side with "Big Business" and financial interests rather than what would best for their users. I think Apple just turned a corner in their strategy and basically sold out the user. By trying their hand at a whole new delivery system while having it excluding more free aspects for their users they have obviously stopped looking at our best interests, and turned into everything they used to stand against. IMO.
I'm actually looking at a ThinkPad from Lenovo now instead of a Mac product. I used to think it was all about the OS, but now I think it has a lot more to do with what product do I like, and who I am buying from. Or in this case who am I not buying from.
I know how you feel. I went down the same road, though in reverse, I guess.
I used to buy Macs because they were alternative, and I viewed Apple as a different kind of company. I wanted to support that. Sure the OS was great and the hardware was nice, but there were several times there in the 90s when it was a real pain in the neck to use Macs.
My moment of greatest disillusion came years ago when the free iTools became the for-pay .Mac. Man, I remember being furious. I even discouraged my brother from buying the iBook I had previously been talking up (he did end up buying it, but he did a bit more shopping around). Of course, then I had the quite obvious revelation that Apple was simply a company. A company whose products I found useful and enjoyed using--at least more than the alternatives.
To me, it is now all about my productivity and my lack of frustration. Right now, I'll stick with Apple. If something better comes along, and I can be more productive and less frustrated, I may switch. I'm no longer simply a "fan" of Apple's products. (And I know that if I were in the same mindset I was years ago, I would be using a G5 iMac right now instead of a 5-year-old G4 Quicksilver (so, ironically, their being tightwads led me to spend less money on their products).) But I think I'm a better consumer.
On the subject at hand, iTV is a non-issue for me as well. Not because of the lack of a DVR, but because I don't have one of those "big screens" and won't anytime soon. I'll be disappointed if iTV is the only media device Apple intros in the winter.
Of course, then I had the quite obvious revelation that Apple was simply a company. A company whose products I found useful and enjoyed using--at least more than the alternatives.
Wow! You grew up!
That should happen more around here. Apple is not a cult. It's a company that produces products.
If one likes them, then buy them, if one doesn't, then don't.
I put the same stock in Iger's comments about the iTV that Jobs said about the Segway (anyone remember these famous words?... "They'll design cities around them!")
"If enough people see the machine you won't have to convince them to architect cities around it. It'll just happen." -- Apple CEO Steve Jobs on the Segway
At the same time Apple cannot run its business only by the emotional whelms of its customers. They need to do what makes most the business sense and will make the most profit in the long term.
Wow! You grew up!
That should happen more around here. Apple is not a cult. It's a company that produces products.
If one likes them, then buy them, if one doesn't, then don't.
George Lucas....er, Apple ruined my childhood!
No the frame rate was the same. NTSC only has one frame rate. Your computer is not really ideal for judging video quality of NTSC.
NTSC is 720x480 pixels if you are watching that full screen on a computer monitor, you spread 720x480 pixels over 1280x1024 pixels (or even more) the image is going to be degraded.
I watch cable television on my computer. At full screen the picture is noticeably worse than on my television for this very reason. On top of that not all computer monitors are created equal some are crappier than others.
If the iTunes movies are being encoded from an HD source MPEG 4 is much more efficient at compressing video and maintaining good quality than the MPEG 2 DVD's are being encoded with.
I would go further. Pirates of the Caribbean is a big movie that had views of large ocean vistas. It was framed and composed and intended for the big screen. Because of this it is not very satisfactory to watch on television. Unless you have a large enough screen to watch it in its proper 2.40:1 aspect ratio.
The issue here is... he's probably the average user/buyer. If his experience sucked, then this whole iTV concept is premature. Hell, it's stillborn.
Wow! You grew up!
That should happen more around here. Apple is not a cult. It's a company that produces products.
If one likes them, then buy them, if one doesn't, then don't.
True. It's silly to think back about what I thought about Apple, especially considering I'm probably more aware than most people of the "electronic sweatshop" in Asia that underpins the whole economic base of America's [sic] technological prowess.
But that's what disillusionment is always like. As with any magician's trick, if you don't know how it's done, then it seems wonderful; once you see the trick, then it's impossible to ignore it.
Other things I've grown disillusioned with:
homeownership
Netflix
public Libraries
local government
state governments
American democracy
God
pets
Wikipedia
Linux
Pixar
the free market
regulated markets
school boards
cable TV (except adult swim)
broadcast TV
granola bars
the basic decency of humanity
the hope of a better world
anti-perspirant
...just off the top of my head...
The issue here is... he's probably the average user/buyer. If his experience sucked, then this whole iTV concept is premature. Hell, it's stillborn.
The fact that he's watching NTSC full screen on a computer monitor has nothing to do with the concept of iTV. iTV is for watching NTCS on your TV.
Other things I've grown disillusioned with
That's funny. In college when I first became exposed to people around my age who were more cynical than I is when I lost my innocence of that magic of the world around me.
I think part of Apple's success is precisely that it is a cult for some people.
To a few perhaps, but not enough to make much of a difference. There are people who feel that way about MS and Linux as well.
I'm probably more aware than most people of the "electronic sweatshop" in Asia that underpins the whole economic base of America's [sic] technological prowess.
The WORLD'S prowess. Also, most of what is done there is invented here. There's a big difference.
Chine is looking to see a big fall in the not too far away future. An interesting article in either the Times or the WSJ Monday (I forget which).
"If enough people see the machine you won't have to convince them to architect cities around it. It'll just happen." -- Apple CEO Steve Jobs on the Segway
He did use the words "if enough" but since they cost so much, no one has seen enough of them.