People shopping in an Apple store do not care about components, video cards, or whether a CPU/optical drive/whatever is a "laptop component" or a "desktop component", unless the sales rep uses the "video upgrade" as an upsell point - even then the buyer doesn't know any more than it's supposedly "better graphics".
Apple knows this and isn't wasting their time trying to appease the geeks who compare every component - the geeks wouldn't buy the Apple product no matter what Apple produced.
After thinking about it for 10 years or so, I have concluded that the reason Apple doesn't ever release an "xMac" midsize tower is that nobody would buy it - in their market surveys, I am guessing that they find a lot of clamor for an xMac, but very few people who say they would actually buy it when compared to the iMac and the Mac mini.
I'm sure you'd be very surprised how many actually would. The real reason Apple doesn't build one is that they don't want to take a risk. They have their group of hardcore users who won't change. Then again, keeping the platform that small is a risk too. It assumes two things, that major reason people buy macs is styling and that Microsoft will never put out a competent operating system. With Mac OS X seemingly just one step from being sold on everyday PCs, you can't assume Microsoft isn't taking things seriously anymore.
5. A little bit of eliteism. Apple has the aura of a luxury item and people that own one
appreciate feeling like they own something special. People expect to pay more
for that, and if they weren't more expensive, subconciously it wouldn't seem so.
I get embarassed though when my friends who don't even know how to use computers end up buying a mac and they start getting elitist-preachy to my other non-mac friends. My non-mac friends have a good laugh when one of my mac friends' mbp burns out or gets dropped.
I get embarassed though when my friends who don't even know how to use computers end up buying a mac and they start getting elitist-preachy to my other non-mac friends. My non-mac friends have a good laugh when one of my mac friends' mbp burns out or gets dropped.
Yes, there is something decadently fun in taking pleasure in someone else's bragged-about pretty little computer crapping out.
I get embarassed though when my friends who don't even know how to use computers end up buying a mac and they start getting elitist-preachy to my other non-mac friends. My non-mac friends have a good laugh when one of my mac friends' mbp burns out or gets dropped.
This post is a must read for Mac and PC users alike. I have been as objective as it is humanly possible to be. The subjective differences that appear on such articles are bound to be present though. Please do give it a look anyway! Thanks!
This post is a must read for Mac and PC users alike. I have been as objective as it is humanly possible to be. The subjective differences that appear on such articles are bound to be present though. Please do give it a look anyway! Thanks!
There in lies the problem, Microsoft can copy all they want and they just have to make their copies good enough to hold on. They really don't have a viable threat. Apple doesn't make it that easy to make the switch.
Exactly. This is what I was trying to emphasize on but some people are always trying to refute other people's thoughts. All MS has to do is bring out an OS which sounds better than the previous one and people will rush to buy it, or pirate it - no one really thinks what others have on offer.
I'm sure you'd be very surprised how many actually would.
xMac: Single proc dual-core Merom, 1.8 gHz, 3 PCIe slots, low-end nVidia card, Superdrive, 250 GB hard drive, room for 2 more hard drives, no monitor, $1199.
Who would buy that when the iMac is $999 with monitor??
And if you make the xMac $899, same problem - a monitor for $100 with the iMac.
If you make it $799, the mini will outsell it due to form factor.
xMac: Single proc dual-core Merom, 1.8 gHz, 3 PCIe slots, low-end nVidia card, Superdrive, 250 GB hard drive, room for 2 more hard drives, no monitor, $1199.
Who would buy that when the iMac is $999 with monitor??
And if you make the xMac $899, same problem - a monitor for $100 with the iMac.
If you make it $799, the mini will outsell it due to form factor.
Expansion, not being tied down to the internal display or video card, not having a mountain of external devices not having to pay $2000+ for either a professional workstation or a 24" Display you don't want to get a decent video card, etc. Lundy, you are looking at this from a completely Jobsian Mac user point of view and assuming everyone who isn't a professional wants the same thing. That's far from the case. There's a large number of us who either came from windows or were products of the Spindler area who don't think that way. The styling is a definite plus, but practicality is first and foremost.
My first Mac was the Performa 5200 and I've had dealing with various iMacs and they've never left a good taste in my mouth. My old Blue and White G3 was the best machine I've ever owned. Unfortunately, Apple's been going upscale in both features and price, leaving people like me in the dust. One size fits all only work if you've completely bought in to the system.
If you make it $799, the mini will outsell it due to form factor.
Maybe, but the fact that the mini doesn't allow decent hard drive performance for a desktop is a choker. Even FW400 offers only a third of the performance that you can get with native SATA 7200RPM drive, this was shown at BareFeats. The iMac doesn't offer much choice or expandability. I wouldn't even dare to open one up to put a good sized hard drive, and I've safely opened up a mini, a 4G iPod and 1G nano with no ill effects. The fact that they absolutely require external devices for feature expansion is a recipe for a mess.
I understand everything you guys are saying - from a geek's point of view. I'm just saying that your average buyer doesn't care about those things and won't pay extra for "expandability" over getting an included monitor.
Maybe, but the fact that the mini doesn't allow decent hard drive performance for a desktop is a choker. Even FW400 offers only a third of the performance that you can get with native SATA 7200RPM drive, this was shown at BareFeats. The iMac doesn't offer much choice or expandability. I wouldn't even dare to open one up to put a good sized hard drive, and I've safely opened up a mini, a 4G iPod and 1G nano with no ill effects. The fact that they absolutely require external devices for feature expansion is a recipe for a mess.
Basically, what it boils down to is that Apple's current desktop offerings are designed around either casual hookup and go consumers or really high end professionals. There is a sizable chunk in between who don't need a pro workstation, but Apple's mobile based desktops aren't quite enough. Those users are stuck with over paying for a Mac Pro, getting a Mini or iMac that they're never quite happy with, or buying a windows PC and being unhappy with Windows.
I understand everything you guys are saying - from a geek's point of view. I'm just saying that your average buyer doesn't care about those things and won't pay extra for "expandability" over getting an included monitor.
How many average buyers are likely to end up buying a Mac, expecially when the prosumers/geeks they turn to for advice are not likely to recommend the platform? Apple could be doing so much better if they'd actually target people other than traditional Mac users.
xMac: Single proc dual-core Merom, 1.8 gHz, 3 PCIe slots, low-end nVidia card, Superdrive, 250 GB hard drive, room for 2 more hard drives, no monitor, $1199.
Who would buy that when the iMac is $999 with monitor??
And if you make the xMac $899, same problem - a monitor for $100 with the iMac.
If you make it $799, the mini will outsell it due to form factor.
Or maybe... people who want Xmacs will buy Xmacs, and people who want iMacs will buy iMacs? No need to make this some kind of economic thesis, just give the consumer what they want and they will, gasp, pay for it.
Or maybe... people who want Xmacs will buy Xmacs, and people who want iMacs will buy iMacs? No need to make this some kind of economic thesis, just give the consumer what they want and they will, gasp, pay for it.
I know one who has money in hand should such a machine show up.
It would be fine with me if Apple would make the xMac - I'm not saying they shouldn't - just it seems to me that if the demand were as big as you guys seem to think, their marketing surveys would show it and the product would get made. Since it isn't made, I am trying to figure out why that might be.
It would be fine with me if Apple would make the xMac - I'm not saying they shouldn't - just it seems to me that if the demand were as big as you guys seem to think, their marketing surveys would show it and the product would get made. Since it isn't made, I am trying to figure out why that might be.
Don't 95% of computer users use the PC equivalent of an xMac?
IMO, the iMac sells well because it hits a certain niche of people who like to save desk space and want a computer to be more like an appliance similar to a TV. One plug, no fuss.
The more I use my brother's iMac, the more I like it. My biggest problem with them is that they force you to use an LCD display and worse, one of Apple's. I've mirrored a £30 CRT right next to an iMac display and spanned a movie across it and my brother cringed that he had just spent over £1300 for a machine with a worse looking brand new display than the refurb I had hooked up to my Mini. He's a graphic designer so visual quality really matters especially for accurate printing.
Now you might say that you could buy an external display but the point is that if you take out the iMac display, you have to be saving money so an xMac doesn't need to be be more expensive than an iMac. I've looked at 3rd party 20" LCDs at 1680x1050 and none are under £200.
What I'd like is to see Apple focus on the Mini and then add a docking station to their cinema displays so you can run both with one plug. Then you get the optical drive slot back at the front of the display again and a better design.
Of course an all silver Mini would look better IMO.
Don't 95% of computer users use the PC equivalent of an xMac?
IMO, the iMac sells well because it hits a certain niche of people who like to save desk space and want a computer to be more like an appliance similar to a TV. One plug, no fuss..
Comments
Geeks comparing component prices is not a market.
People shopping in an Apple store do not care about components, video cards, or whether a CPU/optical drive/whatever is a "laptop component" or a "desktop component", unless the sales rep uses the "video upgrade" as an upsell point - even then the buyer doesn't know any more than it's supposedly "better graphics".
Apple knows this and isn't wasting their time trying to appease the geeks who compare every component - the geeks wouldn't buy the Apple product no matter what Apple produced.
After thinking about it for 10 years or so, I have concluded that the reason Apple doesn't ever release an "xMac" midsize tower is that nobody would buy it - in their market surveys, I am guessing that they find a lot of clamor for an xMac, but very few people who say they would actually buy it when compared to the iMac and the Mac mini.
I'm sure you'd be very surprised how many actually would. The real reason Apple doesn't build one is that they don't want to take a risk. They have their group of hardcore users who won't change. Then again, keeping the platform that small is a risk too. It assumes two things, that major reason people buy macs is styling and that Microsoft will never put out a competent operating system. With Mac OS X seemingly just one step from being sold on everyday PCs, you can't assume Microsoft isn't taking things seriously anymore.
5. A little bit of eliteism. Apple has the aura of a luxury item and people that own one
appreciate feeling like they own something special. People expect to pay more
for that, and if they weren't more expensive, subconciously it wouldn't seem so.
I get embarassed though when my friends who don't even know how to use computers end up buying a mac and they start getting elitist-preachy to my other non-mac friends. My non-mac friends have a good laugh when one of my mac friends' mbp burns out or gets dropped.
I get embarassed though when my friends who don't even know how to use computers end up buying a mac and they start getting elitist-preachy to my other non-mac friends. My non-mac friends have a good laugh when one of my mac friends' mbp burns out or gets dropped.
Yes, there is something decadently fun in taking pleasure in someone else's bragged-about pretty little computer crapping out.
I get embarassed though when my friends who don't even know how to use computers end up buying a mac and they start getting elitist-preachy to my other non-mac friends. My non-mac friends have a good laugh when one of my mac friends' mbp burns out or gets dropped.
sounds like a search for new friends to me
This post is a must read for Mac and PC users alike. I have been as objective as it is humanly possible to be. The subjective differences that appear on such articles are bound to be present though. Please do give it a look anyway! Thanks!
Tiger and Vista: Pictures do speak louder than words!
This post is a must read for Mac and PC users alike. I have been as objective as it is humanly possible to be. The subjective differences that appear on such articles are bound to be present though. Please do give it a look anyway! Thanks!
There in lies the problem, Microsoft can copy all they want and they just have to make their copies good enough to hold on. They really don't have a viable threat. Apple doesn't make it that easy to make the switch.
I'm sure you'd be very surprised how many actually would.
xMac: Single proc dual-core Merom, 1.8 gHz, 3 PCIe slots, low-end nVidia card, Superdrive, 250 GB hard drive, room for 2 more hard drives, no monitor, $1199.
Who would buy that when the iMac is $999 with monitor??
And if you make the xMac $899, same problem - a monitor for $100 with the iMac.
If you make it $799, the mini will outsell it due to form factor.
xMac: Single proc dual-core Merom, 1.8 gHz, 3 PCIe slots, low-end nVidia card, Superdrive, 250 GB hard drive, room for 2 more hard drives, no monitor, $1199.
Who would buy that when the iMac is $999 with monitor??
And if you make the xMac $899, same problem - a monitor for $100 with the iMac.
If you make it $799, the mini will outsell it due to form factor.
Expansion, not being tied down to the internal display or video card, not having a mountain of external devices not having to pay $2000+ for either a professional workstation or a 24" Display you don't want to get a decent video card, etc. Lundy, you are looking at this from a completely Jobsian Mac user point of view and assuming everyone who isn't a professional wants the same thing. That's far from the case. There's a large number of us who either came from windows or were products of the Spindler area who don't think that way. The styling is a definite plus, but practicality is first and foremost.
My first Mac was the Performa 5200 and I've had dealing with various iMacs and they've never left a good taste in my mouth. My old Blue and White G3 was the best machine I've ever owned. Unfortunately, Apple's been going upscale in both features and price, leaving people like me in the dust. One size fits all only work if you've completely bought in to the system.
If you make it $799, the mini will outsell it due to form factor.
Maybe, but the fact that the mini doesn't allow decent hard drive performance for a desktop is a choker. Even FW400 offers only a third of the performance that you can get with native SATA 7200RPM drive, this was shown at BareFeats. The iMac doesn't offer much choice or expandability. I wouldn't even dare to open one up to put a good sized hard drive, and I've safely opened up a mini, a 4G iPod and 1G nano with no ill effects. The fact that they absolutely require external devices for feature expansion is a recipe for a mess.
Maybe, but the fact that the mini doesn't allow decent hard drive performance for a desktop is a choker. Even FW400 offers only a third of the performance that you can get with native SATA 7200RPM drive, this was shown at BareFeats. The iMac doesn't offer much choice or expandability. I wouldn't even dare to open one up to put a good sized hard drive, and I've safely opened up a mini, a 4G iPod and 1G nano with no ill effects. The fact that they absolutely require external devices for feature expansion is a recipe for a mess.
Basically, what it boils down to is that Apple's current desktop offerings are designed around either casual hookup and go consumers or really high end professionals. There is a sizable chunk in between who don't need a pro workstation, but Apple's mobile based desktops aren't quite enough. Those users are stuck with over paying for a Mac Pro, getting a Mini or iMac that they're never quite happy with, or buying a windows PC and being unhappy with Windows.
I understand everything you guys are saying - from a geek's point of view. I'm just saying that your average buyer doesn't care about those things and won't pay extra for "expandability" over getting an included monitor.
How many average buyers are likely to end up buying a Mac, expecially when the prosumers/geeks they turn to for advice are not likely to recommend the platform? Apple could be doing so much better if they'd actually target people other than traditional Mac users.
xMac: Single proc dual-core Merom, 1.8 gHz, 3 PCIe slots, low-end nVidia card, Superdrive, 250 GB hard drive, room for 2 more hard drives, no monitor, $1199.
Who would buy that when the iMac is $999 with monitor??
And if you make the xMac $899, same problem - a monitor for $100 with the iMac.
If you make it $799, the mini will outsell it due to form factor.
Or maybe... people who want Xmacs will buy Xmacs, and people who want iMacs will buy iMacs? No need to make this some kind of economic thesis, just give the consumer what they want and they will, gasp, pay for it.
Or maybe... people who want Xmacs will buy Xmacs, and people who want iMacs will buy iMacs? No need to make this some kind of economic thesis, just give the consumer what they want and they will, gasp, pay for it.
I know one who has money in hand should such a machine show up.
It would be fine with me if Apple would make the xMac - I'm not saying they shouldn't - just it seems to me that if the demand were as big as you guys seem to think, their marketing surveys would show it and the product would get made. Since it isn't made, I am trying to figure out why that might be.
Don't 95% of computer users use the PC equivalent of an xMac?
IMO, the iMac sells well because it hits a certain niche of people who like to save desk space and want a computer to be more like an appliance similar to a TV. One plug, no fuss.
The more I use my brother's iMac, the more I like it. My biggest problem with them is that they force you to use an LCD display and worse, one of Apple's. I've mirrored a £30 CRT right next to an iMac display and spanned a movie across it and my brother cringed that he had just spent over £1300 for a machine with a worse looking brand new display than the refurb I had hooked up to my Mini. He's a graphic designer so visual quality really matters especially for accurate printing.
Now you might say that you could buy an external display but the point is that if you take out the iMac display, you have to be saving money so an xMac doesn't need to be be more expensive than an iMac. I've looked at 3rd party 20" LCDs at 1680x1050 and none are under £200.
What I'd like is to see Apple focus on the Mini and then add a docking station to their cinema displays so you can run both with one plug. Then you get the optical drive slot back at the front of the display again and a better design.
Of course an all silver Mini would look better IMO.
Don't 95% of computer users use the PC equivalent of an xMac?
IMO, the iMac sells well because it hits a certain niche of people who like to save desk space and want a computer to be more like an appliance similar to a TV. One plug, no fuss..
I agree whole heartedly up to this point.