Two Enter Buttons on MB Keyboard?

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
Does anyone know what the difference between the normal return/enter key and the second button that has a similar function which is between the right command button and left arrow key.



I really dont understand why there would be two enter keys ie the ones with a arrow pointing up at a a line right on top of it?



Thanks

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 16
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    One is return, the other is enter. This is really no different from extended keyboards, where return is in the same place, and enter is in the very bottom right of the num pad.
  • Reply 2 of 16
    oh yeah i get it now, but then it's strange having two even if one of them is part of the num pad.
  • Reply 3 of 16
    I was under the impression that the Enter and the Return key did not have equal function.
  • Reply 4 of 16
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    They don't. In most apps, it's the same, but sometimes (e.g., Excel) it differs.
  • Reply 5 of 16
    benroethigbenroethig Posts: 2,782member
    In some Mac word processors, return will drop down one line while the enter key on the number pad will do a page break. Most of the time they're mapped to do the same function to make it more common with PC software.
  • Reply 6 of 16
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig


    In some Mac word processors, return will drop down one line while the enter key on the number pad will do a page break. Most of the time they're mapped to do the same function to make it more common with PC software.



    I've never seen it used as a page break, but there are some programs that make a distinction. The distinction is more subtle than the delete/backspace distinction. I have some programs that treat the keys differently and do use that to my advantage, but it's now second nature to me, so I don't remember which program. \
  • Reply 7 of 16
    imacfanimacfan Posts: 444member
    I thought that in spreadsheets, the Return key will confirm the entry into the cell and move on to the next cell below, whereas the enter key will accept and stay on the same cell.



    David
  • Reply 8 of 16
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    The existence of these two different keys is really confusing.

    Also, it creates a compatibility problem with Macs and regular PC keyboards, since the keyboards generally only have one of these keys.

    Can't help but to hope the use of the lowest row key quietly dies in Mac software and then the physical key itself goes to prevent developers using it in the future.
  • Reply 9 of 16
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gon


    Also, it creates a compatibility problem with Macs and regular PC keyboards, since the keyboards generally only have one of these keys.



    Er, what now? I don't remember the last time I've seen a regular-sized keyboard without both keys.
  • Reply 10 of 16
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    I've always disliked the fact there were two. It's true that they can have separate functions. Mainly I've seen it in programs like Mathematica where return moves to a new line and enter evaluates the expression but they could easily use shift-return for evaluate.



    I think the enter-key was probably placed on the numpad for convenience as some people will use it like a calculator. Then some programmers decided they could do with an extra key so changed the function in certain instances.



    I'm not a fan of the numpad at all because I think it wastes space having two sets of numbers. I find the layout useful but why can't they get rid of the top row of numbers and move the numpad to the right side of the qwerty keyboard and move all those brackets, semicolons etc above the letters?



    I'm a bit tired of the qwerty keyboard too. I find the alphabetic keyboards on phones more intuitive. Why teach us the alphabet since we were kids and then ask us to type on a board with letters thrown about randomly? The qwerty was designed for typists to stop typewriters jamming so it's completely unnecessary and as mobile phones have shown, people can easily pick up a new layout.



    The way I would do it is have a rectangular grid of 12x3 with the numpad at the far right. Then there would be 12 symbol keys (each key with two symbols). There would be one enter key to the right of the numpad and shift-enter would be return.



    This way every keyboard reduces to about 3/4 the size but has better functionality. Then laptops would be the same as desktops too.
  • Reply 11 of 16
    zandroszandros Posts: 537member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin




    I'm a bit tired of the qwerty keyboard too. I find the alphabetic keyboards on phones more intuitive. Why teach us the alphabet since we were kids and then ask us to type on a board with letters thrown about randomly? The qwerty was designed for typists to stop typewriters jamming so it's completely unnecessary and as mobile phones have shown, people can easily pick up a new layout.



    Pretty much all smartphones, that is all phones which has room for it, use the QWERTY standard, though. Ordinary alphabet order is probably not the best nor fastest order anyway.
  • Reply 12 of 16
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin


    I'm not a fan of the numpad at all because I think it wastes space having two sets of numbers. I find the layout useful but why can't they get rid of the top row of numbers and move the numpad to the right side of the qwerty keyboard and move all those brackets, semicolons etc above the letters?



    I don't think that would be worthwhile. The numpad keys would then have three different meanings each, depending on the mode.



    I don't think it makes sense to condense a desktop keyboard to be like a notebook keyboard, because the notebook keyboard generally has significant compromises made so it is portable. However, if you do want such a keyboard for desktop use, I believe there are a few options. Some that I am aware of are the Happy Hacking keyboards.
  • Reply 13 of 16
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zandros


    Ordinary alphabet order is probably not the best nor fastest order anyway.



    I honestly don't think any order is faster than another. It's just a case of how well you know a given layout. That may well be a case for keeping qwerty but the alphabet has been around far longer than computers. There are too many variables to determine which layout is faster.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM


    I don't think that would be worthwhile. The numpad keys would then have three different meanings each, depending on the mode.



    What are those meanings?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM


    I don't think it makes sense to condense a desktop keyboard to be like a notebook keyboard, because the notebook keyboard generally has significant compromises made so it is portable. However, if you do want such a keyboard for desktop use, I believe there are a few options. Some that I am aware of are the Happy Hacking keyboards.



    There are no compromises made by moving the numpad and replacing the line of numbers. All it's doing is removing redundant keys. I don't believe that a keyboard should be bigger than the reach of the fingers and full size keyboards are.



    I use a powerbook and the only thing it lacks is a numpad. On my full size keyboard, I rarely use the number line for numbers.
  • Reply 14 of 16
    zandroszandros Posts: 537member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin


    I honestly don't think any order is faster than another. It's just a case of how well you know a given layout. That may well be a case for keeping qwerty but the alphabet has been around far longer than computers. There are too many variables to determine which layout is faster.



    Optimising the key layout for minimal finger travel should help a bit. Though there really should be a keyboard layout for each language in that case, and one for programming.
  • Reply 15 of 16
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,229moderator
    As usual, someone else has thought of the same thing :



    http://abckeyboard.co.uk/

    http://www.engadget.com/2005/01/03/n...ards-53-keyer/
  • Reply 16 of 16
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin


    As usual, someone else has thought of the same thing :



    http://abckeyboard.co.uk/

    http://www.engadget.com/2005/01/03/n...ards-53-keyer/



    The first one might go over very well assuming you can market it to the right people. Just from the comments and from the looks that the second one is not going to be nearly so popular, and the gadget fan crowd is the kind that's not normally so put off by something that looks complicated. Heck, if you look at the close-up on their site, most of the keys represent five different characters. That doesn't look like fun to me.



    http://www.newstandardkeyboards.com/images/End535S.jpg
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