I wonder how many reading this thread have doubts about who will win the HD format war? I think it will be Blu-ray, but I'm not sure enough to go out and buy movies on BD, or buy a stand-alone player. I went with Beta tape years ago and don't want to repeat the experience.
I am a member of NetFlix and yesterday noticed a whole section on Blu-ray, and another on HD-DVD. It seems there is no premium to pay for an HD movie. So, a plan hatched. We can get either an XBox 360 with HD-DVD player, or a Sony PS3, whichever we happen to prefer as a game console. As a member of NetFlix we can watch HD movies in the format the game system requires, until the war is over and one side wins. No risk. No need to read this thread any longer and try to guess who the winner will be.
i wouldn't weigh in the ps3 just because it has bluray, if you like the games those few exclusives ps3 offers i'd say get it but dont make the decision on the bluray factor because
1. its bluray player will most definitely be garbage ( i bet my arm on it) and
2. if you get it because of bluray, and then bluray doesn't hold, you're stuck with a pretty expensive system with games you could have gotten with another platform.
i wouldn't weigh in the ps3 just because it has bluray, if you like the games those few exclusives ps3 offers i'd say get it but dont make the decision on the bluray factor . . .
My suggestion is to buy whichever game console you like best. Both consoles will survive and sell millions of systems. There is no risk there. Blu-ray will be for PS3 games, and for optical drives in computers. I am sure it will win out in the computer market because of storage capacity. Both optical drives will be made for about the same price in the long run, but the Blu-ray disks hold more.
Quote:
1. its bluray player will most definitely be garbage ( i bet my arm on it) . . .
Okay lefty. You usually bet your right arm you realize.
I don't see how you can say this, considering it is how its games are distributed, not on DVDs. Even if Blu-ray movies don't make it, Sony will have great capacity to make the discs for games. It would make economic sense to use their capital investment in disc making for something, rather than scrapping it. But I'm sure it will also survive for optical computer storage. If it is no longer used to distribute movies, Sony may even remove the copy protection, who knows? Anyway, this would be a worst case scenario, which I don't expect to happen.
I'll let my son decide which game console he wants, and then watch HD movies on that format until the war is over, using NetFlix. I don't expect both formats will survive, as the economics of retail outlets carrying double inventory can't last forever. If one does not win, an entirely new format will come in and replace both. I'll bet a dollar on that, no more.
Let's not forget that Sony's been down this road before. Even if a format doesn't catch on fire instantly, Sony holds on like a bulldog for years, until it finally decides it's a lost cause. People like to say the Betamax lost, but they forget just how many years it survived. And then there's the Minidisc, which is still on the market (albeit a niche market) years after the other digital audio formats like DAT and DLT were essentially abandoned by their backers ("essentially" meaning no longer sold to consumers but only to pros and the data backup market). I'm not convinced Toshiba would do the same if HD DVD doesn't gain much traction in the market.
Let's not forget that Sony's been down this road before. Even if a format doesn't catch on fire instantly, Sony holds on like a bulldog for years, until it finally decides it's a lost cause. People like to say the Betamax lost, but they forget just how many years it survived. And then there's the Minidisc, which is still on the market (albeit a niche market) years after the other digital audio formats like DAT and DLT were essentially abandoned by their backers ("essentially" meaning no longer sold to consumers but only to pros and the data backup market). I'm not convinced Toshiba would do the same if HD DVD doesn't gain much traction in the market.
i wouldn't weigh in the ps3 just because it has bluray, if you like the games those few exclusives ps3 offers i'd say get it but dont make the decision on the bluray factor because
1. its bluray player will most definitely be garbage ( i bet my arm on it) and
2. if you get it because of bluray, and then bluray doesn't hold, you're stuck with a pretty expensive system with games you could have gotten with another platform.
The DVD player in the PS2 is quite good. I had a 1st generation Sony $1000 player (S7000ES?) which I got rid of because the PS2 player was so much better. The only thing that we know for sure is that reliability improves with scale, so the PS2 will probably be much more reliable than other Blu-ray and HD-DVD players, and that visual bugs in the Samsung were noticed by Sony and will definitely not be present in the PS3.
I have a 360, and will buy a PS3 and a Wii - but not the 360 add on HD-DVD player. If I am typical, then blu-ray is assured a win.
$500 is a lot for a game console that requires HDTV to maximixe the effectiveness. The PS2 didn't come with this encumberance it was also the cheapest way to get into a DVD player at the time. That's not the case today.
If you care about gaming you need to get the $600 unit and I'm betting that HD DVD will be under $399 after CES 2007.
If Blu-Ray loses Disney and Lionsgate before next summer I don't think they'll catchup honestly.
If you care about gaming you need to get the $600 unit and I'm betting that HD DVD will be under $399 after CES 2007.
Not likely, since they lose tons of money at the $500 pricepoint as it is. I doubt that HD-DVD will have economy of scale any time soon, since getting there would require Toshiba to subsidize every unit.
Not likely, since they lose tons of money at the $500 pricepoint as it is. I doubt that HD-DVD will have economy of scale any time soon, since getting there would require Toshiba to subsidize every unit.
I don't think that is true with 2nd Gen HD-DVD players which is scheduled for end of Oct. 2006 launch. The 1st Gen players had lots of expensive parts and goodies, but the 2nd gen player will definitely come toned down and cheaper. No subsidization required.
. . . $500 is a lot for a game console that requires HDTV to maximixe the effectiveness. . .
Sorry, but to me you are making no sense at all. I can't believe you are saying that HDTV is an encumbrance to the PS3. That's like saying HDTV is an encumbrance to HD-DVD and Blu-ray players. They "require HDTV to maximixe the effectiveness." Your statement is just as illogical. We buy a PS3 or an XBox 360 so we can have games that look better. Otherwise we may as well stick with our old systems.
Quote:
If Blu-Ray loses Disney and Lionsgate before next summer I don't think they'll catchup honestly.
You're absolutely correct. They will catch up by cheating!
Not likely, since they lose tons of money at the $500 pricepoint as it is. I doubt that HD-DVD will have economy of scale any time soon, since getting there would require Toshiba to subsidize every unit.
You cannot prove this with ANY empirical evidence. You and a lot of other people want to take iSuppli breakdowns as fact. Toshiba executives have stated that they are not taking a loss on players. Who should we trust iSuppli or Toshiba? Hmmmmmm
You fail to realize that HD DVD is cheaper to manufacture because of its lineage with DVD. The OPU shares so much technology with DVD it's clear to to why they can make the drives cheaper and smaller. They already have economy of scale. 50k worldwide units shipped. 200k by years end and this is just Toshiba badged units. You still have RCA and the multitude of laptops shipping with HD DVD drives and oh yeah the Xbox 360 HD DVD add on.
Snoopy
What I mean is that unlike the PS2 which required nothing more than you basic TV to enjoy DVD with Blu-Ray you must have a HDTV. Thus not everyone that purchases a PS3 will be a candidate to run out and buy movies. The Xbox add on will only sell to those people who meet the requirement of a HDTV.
The PS3 could be a huge success for movie purchasing but somethings telling me that the gamers are going to be a bit more aggressive than the movie aficianados. If you're a movie fan you could have purchased a Blu-Ray player a while ago.
actually.... HD source viewed on SDTV looks better than SD viewed on SDTV. I've had my H20 Directv with S-video connection to Sony CRT in my bedroom awaiting for a new TV delivery and looked fantastic. At least HD format movies on SDTV will show cleaner pictures than SD-DVD would, but would look stunning on 1080p true HD displays.
Well, PS3 is being considered as only cheap BD player since all the BD players retails $1000 and above. However, standalone HD-DVD players can be had for $499 retail. So, PS3 maybe be the only cheap solution, but HD has more than one choices.... and all those existing xbox 360 market has the potential to become HD-DVD market support for the price of $200. Not a bad option.
I might go out and pick out PS3 for gaming when available, but I'll not be buying BD25 MPEG2 Movie titles.... I have tons SD DVD titles that should perform similar to the BD25 titles upconverted from toshiba.
BTW, HD experience isn't just the PQ anymore, but full complement of TrueHD audio sound tracks which just blows everything else away. Since the gaming console and the add-ons will lack such audio options other than (HDMI 1.3 with AVR with HD-Audio decoder, not available yet), gaming console will never be a good way to get the full HD experience. For those who knows someone or has a such set-up, go watch Batman Begins in HD with HD sound, it's just a newly found level of HT experience.
Just a couple of corrections to note. First is that, so far (key to remember here, so far), all BD standalone players, MSRP for $999 or above. They retail for much lower than that. You can even get refurbed Samsungs for like $599 to $699.
Also, the PS3 does NOT lack such audio options as you declare...(PS3 Goes TrueHD for Blu-ray Playback)
You're right... it's only Sony trying to push good old MPEG2 on BD50. Looks like everyone else is sticking with VC-1 or H264-AVC encodes and using them on both formats. I think market has already proven the advange or the lack of disadvange of MPEG4 derivative video encodes directly compared to the heavy weight MPEG2.
In the very begining, I was more worried about MPEG4 vs. MPEG2 rather than HD-DVD vs. BD-DVD, since I didn't really care about who wins this format war as long as I can have my prestine HD quality format movies at home. I can now give an honest approval to MPEG4 after watching over 20 HD-DVD titles. However, it seems that Sony's battling two wars at the same time.... MPEG2 vs. MPEG4 and BD-DVD vs. HD-DVD.... I guess it's only Sony who will benefit from BD-50 implementation and it's time that educated consumers to speak out and say.... "no thanks... we're fine with MPEG4 at lower cost"..... I guess even Sony knows MPEG4's wouldn't require BD-50 and this is why Sony keeps pushing MPEG2 so they can make money on BD-50. It's just sad that many ignorant consumers are seen as mass feeding buds by Sony and these consumers are happy to go fight the battle for their predator.
Anyway, have fun with your new HD-DVD movies. I bought Batman, Polar Express, Corpse Bride, and Charlie & Chocolate Factory last week and I and my family have enjoyed watching all of them in prestine HD quality. I'm not a big supporter of dual disc format (DVD & HD-DVD package) and have not picked up Tokyo drift, but I did get the original F&F.
BTW, did you guys know that most local Target retails now carry HD-DVD Titles on the shelves at online prices?
For all the Sony bashing once again going on in this post, please, you NEED to realize that Sony as well as others in the BDA (Philips, JVC, Panasonic, Apple, Samsung, LG, etc.) are in the patent pool for H.264/MPEG4.
You can find this information elsewhere as well, but the above link is an interesting but complex read. The information pertaining to patent pool holders can be found on page 19. So, anyways, your point here is nonsense, as Sony will have as much to gain with implementing MPEG4 as well. More than likely it has everything to do with having (or not having yet) the necessary software in Sony's case to encode MPEG4 movies. But lets not let facts get in the way, on with the Sony bashing!
Moreover, it has been stated and shown that HD DVD is very close to its 30 GB limit on current movies that are released--and we haven't even seen the 3 hour epics just yet. So, IMO, we have much to benefit in the form of BD-50s--higher picture quality (spare me the linear rant there Murch), more advanced extras, HD extras, games, etc.
So really, what's sad here is the push of misinformation. MPEG4 will more than likely find its way onto Sony titles, it's just a matter of time. Heck we know we're already getting them on Fox and Disney.
$500 is a lot for a game console that requires HDTV to maximixe the effectiveness. The PS2 didn't come with this encumberance it was also the cheapest way to get into a DVD player at the time. That's not the case today.
If you care about gaming you need to get the $600 unit and I'm betting that HD DVD will be under $399 after CES 2007.
If Blu-Ray loses Disney and Lionsgate before next summer I don't think they'll catchup honestly.
Hmm, I see. $500 is a lot for a game console + Blu-ray player with HDMI 1.3, 1080P output, Dolby TrueHD playback, etc., but when you have hardware that pales in comparison at the same price point in the HD-A1 and HD-A2, the price is all good, huh? Looks like a double standard if I've ever seen one. Especially the one about requiring an HDTV for effectiveness,...WTF? And the $500 HD-A1, and the second generation, $500 HD-A2 don't?...Hahahahahahaha.
What is interesting is that when you DO have hardware that compares to what is in the PS3 from the HD DVD camp, the player is the same price as the (so labeled by some) "expensive" Blu-ray players--$999. Yes, the SECOND-GENERATION HD DVD player (HD-XA2) that has comparable hardware to the PS3 is $999. No mention of that from HD DVD supporters, because it destroys their whole, HD DVD is half the cost of Blu-ray and will always be cheaper argument. But, let's focus on the NOW. The now, because HD DVD supporters have about 4 more weeks to use the "cheaper" player now, the more prevalent number of discs sold now, and my favorite, the better PQ 2 months ago arguments. Not going to hold come 2007.
Tick tock, tick tock...4th quarter is here, Blu-ray is starting to roll well--quality releases, Panny player, 50GB discs, Sony, Pioneer, and Philips players any time now, the PS3 launch, etc., can HD DVD stop the Blu-ray juggernaut? Not likely, IMO.
Plus, there is NO empirical evidence to suggest Lionsgate or Disney will be doing HD DVD. This is more like HD DVD fanboy wishful prayers,...ones that have been going on for eight months now, but we have yet to see anything, I mean anything, materialize. A 25,000 player market of HD DVD players won't make a studio flinch, let alone take on the added cost of making movies for HD DVD. The market forces for HD DVD are simply to weak.
You keep stating that HD DVD has sold 50,000 players, and have provided a poorTGDaily link that provides no source whatsoever as to backing the number they provided in 50,000 players. For the sake of being nice, let's just say they--Toshiba--have sold 50,000 players worldwide, you think that by accomplishing this feat in 5 1/2 months, this will somehow correlate to 200,000 players in another 2 1/2 months with less studio support to boot? Suuuuuuuuure.
You make some good points Marzetta7. $500 isn't chump change for anyone.
However the PS3 doesn't compare to the HD-XA2 as a movie player.
Both have 1080p
Both have HDMI 1.3
But with the XA2 you get
RS-232 for automation control
12-bit 297Khz video dacs
5.1 analog out
Better remote control
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marzetta7
A 25,000 player market of HD DVD players won't make a studio flinch, let alone take on the added cost of making movies for HD DVD. The market forces for HD DVD are simply to weak
So I guess the question is why would they stay exclusive to a format that was beaten soundly by %250 in sales and whose competition offers a %300 improvement in movie attachrate?
For all the Sony bashing once again going on in this post, please, you NEED to realize that Sony as well as others in the BDA (Philips, JVC, Panasonic, Apple, Samsung, LG, etc.) are in the patent pool for H.264/MPEG4.
You can find this information elsewhere as well, but the above link is an interesting but complex read. The information pertaining to patent pool holders can be found on page 19. So, anyways, your point here is nonsense, as Sony will have as much to gain with implementing MPEG4 as well. More than likely it has everything to do with having (or not having yet) the necessary software in Sony's case to encode MPEG4 movies. But lets not let facts get in the way, on with the Sony bashing!
Moreover, it has been stated and shown that HD DVD is very close to its 30 GB limit on current movies that are released--and we haven't even seen the 3 hour epics just yet. So, IMO, we have much to benefit in the form of BD-50s--higher picture quality (spare me the linear rant there Murch), more advanced extras, HD extras, games, etc.
So really, what's sad here is the push of misinformation. MPEG4 will more than likely find its way onto Sony titles, it's just a matter of time. Heck we know we're already getting them on Fox and Disney.
You must have completed reading sony brochure for 100th times. There are other brands supporting BD technology and they have brochures as well...... you could keep reading all about that.....
Or go out and get a BD-Player and couple of BD Titles for yourself and see what I mean. I've actually returned two Sammy BD players and still have couple of BD-Titles to sell you if you want them for 2/3 of the price I paid.
Comments
I wonder how many reading this thread have doubts about who will win the HD format war? I think it will be Blu-ray, but I'm not sure enough to go out and buy movies on BD, or buy a stand-alone player. I went with Beta tape years ago and don't want to repeat the experience.
I am a member of NetFlix and yesterday noticed a whole section on Blu-ray, and another on HD-DVD. It seems there is no premium to pay for an HD movie. So, a plan hatched. We can get either an XBox 360 with HD-DVD player, or a Sony PS3, whichever we happen to prefer as a game console. As a member of NetFlix we can watch HD movies in the format the game system requires, until the war is over and one side wins. No risk. No need to read this thread any longer and try to guess who the winner will be.
i wouldn't weigh in the ps3 just because it has bluray, if you like the games those few exclusives ps3 offers i'd say get it but dont make the decision on the bluray factor because
1. its bluray player will most definitely be garbage ( i bet my arm on it) and
2. if you get it because of bluray, and then bluray doesn't hold, you're stuck with a pretty expensive system with games you could have gotten with another platform.
i wouldn't weigh in the ps3 just because it has bluray, if you like the games those few exclusives ps3 offers i'd say get it but dont make the decision on the bluray factor . . .
My suggestion is to buy whichever game console you like best. Both consoles will survive and sell millions of systems. There is no risk there. Blu-ray will be for PS3 games, and for optical drives in computers. I am sure it will win out in the computer market because of storage capacity. Both optical drives will be made for about the same price in the long run, but the Blu-ray disks hold more.
1. its bluray player will most definitely be garbage ( i bet my arm on it) . . .
Okay lefty. You usually bet your right arm you realize.
I don't see how you can say this, considering it is how its games are distributed, not on DVDs. Even if Blu-ray movies don't make it, Sony will have great capacity to make the discs for games. It would make economic sense to use their capital investment in disc making for something, rather than scrapping it. But I'm sure it will also survive for optical computer storage. If it is no longer used to distribute movies, Sony may even remove the copy protection, who knows? Anyway, this would be a worst case scenario, which I don't expect to happen.
I'll let my son decide which game console he wants, and then watch HD movies on that format until the war is over, using NetFlix. I don't expect both formats will survive, as the economics of retail outlets carrying double inventory can't last forever. If one does not win, an entirely new format will come in and replace both. I'll bet a dollar on that, no more.
Let's not forget that Sony's been down this road before. Even if a format doesn't catch on fire instantly, Sony holds on like a bulldog for years, until it finally decides it's a lost cause. People like to say the Betamax lost, but they forget just how many years it survived. And then there's the Minidisc, which is still on the market (albeit a niche market) years after the other digital audio formats like DAT and DLT were essentially abandoned by their backers ("essentially" meaning no longer sold to consumers but only to pros and the data backup market). I'm not convinced Toshiba would do the same if HD DVD doesn't gain much traction in the market.
DAT was also Sony.
I believe the mini disk is still around because it is really big in Japan. It just never took off here.
It did well with musicians too. For a long time it was one of the most popular portable audio recorders in terms of quality.
i wouldn't weigh in the ps3 just because it has bluray, if you like the games those few exclusives ps3 offers i'd say get it but dont make the decision on the bluray factor because
1. its bluray player will most definitely be garbage ( i bet my arm on it) and
2. if you get it because of bluray, and then bluray doesn't hold, you're stuck with a pretty expensive system with games you could have gotten with another platform.
The DVD player in the PS2 is quite good. I had a 1st generation Sony $1000 player (S7000ES?) which I got rid of because the PS2 player was so much better. The only thing that we know for sure is that reliability improves with scale, so the PS2 will probably be much more reliable than other Blu-ray and HD-DVD players, and that visual bugs in the Samsung were noticed by Sony and will definitely not be present in the PS3.
I have a 360, and will buy a PS3 and a Wii - but not the 360 add on HD-DVD player. If I am typical, then blu-ray is assured a win.
$500 is a lot for a game console that requires HDTV to maximixe the effectiveness. The PS2 didn't come with this encumberance it was also the cheapest way to get into a DVD player at the time. That's not the case today.
If you care about gaming you need to get the $600 unit and I'm betting that HD DVD will be under $399 after CES 2007.
If Blu-Ray loses Disney and Lionsgate before next summer I don't think they'll catchup honestly.
If you care about gaming you need to get the $600 unit and I'm betting that HD DVD will be under $399 after CES 2007.
Not likely, since they lose tons of money at the $500 pricepoint as it is. I doubt that HD-DVD will have economy of scale any time soon, since getting there would require Toshiba to subsidize every unit.
Not likely, since they lose tons of money at the $500 pricepoint as it is. I doubt that HD-DVD will have economy of scale any time soon, since getting there would require Toshiba to subsidize every unit.
I don't think that is true with 2nd Gen HD-DVD players which is scheduled for end of Oct. 2006 launch. The 1st Gen players had lots of expensive parts and goodies, but the 2nd gen player will definitely come toned down and cheaper. No subsidization required.
. . . $500 is a lot for a game console that requires HDTV to maximixe the effectiveness. . .
Sorry, but to me you are making no sense at all. I can't believe you are saying that HDTV is an encumbrance to the PS3.
If Blu-Ray loses Disney and Lionsgate before next summer I don't think they'll catchup honestly.
You're absolutely correct. They will catch up by cheating!
Not likely, since they lose tons of money at the $500 pricepoint as it is. I doubt that HD-DVD will have economy of scale any time soon, since getting there would require Toshiba to subsidize every unit.
You cannot prove this with ANY empirical evidence. You and a lot of other people want to take iSuppli breakdowns as fact. Toshiba executives have stated that they are not taking a loss on players. Who should we trust iSuppli or Toshiba? Hmmmmmm
You fail to realize that HD DVD is cheaper to manufacture because of its lineage with DVD. The OPU shares so much technology with DVD it's clear to to why they can make the drives cheaper and smaller. They already have economy of scale. 50k worldwide units shipped. 200k by years end and this is just Toshiba badged units. You still have RCA and the multitude of laptops shipping with HD DVD drives and oh yeah the Xbox 360 HD DVD add on.
Snoopy
What I mean is that unlike the PS2 which required nothing more than you basic TV to enjoy DVD with Blu-Ray you must have a HDTV. Thus not everyone that purchases a PS3 will be a candidate to run out and buy movies. The Xbox add on will only sell to those people who meet the requirement of a HDTV.
The PS3 could be a huge success for movie purchasing but somethings telling me that the gamers are going to be a bit more aggressive than the movie aficianados. If you're a movie fan you could have purchased a Blu-Ray player a while ago.
Well, PS3 is being considered as only cheap BD player since all the BD players retails $1000 and above. However, standalone HD-DVD players can be had for $499 retail. So, PS3 maybe be the only cheap solution, but HD has more than one choices.... and all those existing xbox 360 market has the potential to become HD-DVD market support for the price of $200. Not a bad option.
I might go out and pick out PS3 for gaming when available, but I'll not be buying BD25 MPEG2 Movie titles.... I have tons SD DVD titles that should perform similar to the BD25 titles upconverted from toshiba.
BTW, HD experience isn't just the PQ anymore, but full complement of TrueHD audio sound tracks which just blows everything else away. Since the gaming console and the add-ons will lack such audio options other than (HDMI 1.3 with AVR with HD-Audio decoder, not available yet), gaming console will never be a good way to get the full HD experience. For those who knows someone or has a such set-up, go watch Batman Begins in HD with HD sound, it's just a newly found level of HT experience.
Just a couple of corrections to note. First is that, so far (key to remember here, so far), all BD standalone players, MSRP for $999 or above. They retail for much lower than that. You can even get refurbed Samsungs for like $599 to $699.
Also, the PS3 does NOT lack such audio options as you declare...(PS3 Goes TrueHD for Blu-ray Playback)
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news...y_Playback/255
The PS3 for all intents and purposes will be one hell of a player--both PQ wise and audio wise.
You're right... it's only Sony trying to push good old MPEG2 on BD50. Looks like everyone else is sticking with VC-1 or H264-AVC encodes and using them on both formats. I think market has already proven the advange or the lack of disadvange of MPEG4 derivative video encodes directly compared to the heavy weight MPEG2.
In the very begining, I was more worried about MPEG4 vs. MPEG2 rather than HD-DVD vs. BD-DVD, since I didn't really care about who wins this format war as long as I can have my prestine HD quality format movies at home. I can now give an honest approval to MPEG4 after watching over 20 HD-DVD titles. However, it seems that Sony's battling two wars at the same time.... MPEG2 vs. MPEG4 and BD-DVD vs. HD-DVD.... I guess it's only Sony who will benefit from BD-50 implementation and it's time that educated consumers to speak out and say.... "no thanks... we're fine with MPEG4 at lower cost"..... I guess even Sony knows MPEG4's wouldn't require BD-50 and this is why Sony keeps pushing MPEG2 so they can make money on BD-50. It's just sad that many ignorant consumers are seen as mass feeding buds by Sony and these consumers are happy to go fight the battle for their predator.
Anyway, have fun with your new HD-DVD movies. I bought Batman, Polar Express, Corpse Bride, and Charlie & Chocolate Factory last week and I and my family have enjoyed watching all of them in prestine HD quality. I'm not a big supporter of dual disc format (DVD & HD-DVD package) and have not picked up Tokyo drift, but I did get the original F&F.
BTW, did you guys know that most local Target retails now carry HD-DVD Titles on the shelves at online prices?
For all the Sony bashing once again going on in this post, please, you NEED to realize that Sony as well as others in the BDA (Philips, JVC, Panasonic, Apple, Samsung, LG, etc.) are in the patent pool for H.264/MPEG4.
http://www.img.lx.it.pt/~fp/artigos/H264_final.pdf
You can find this information elsewhere as well, but the above link is an interesting but complex read. The information pertaining to patent pool holders can be found on page 19. So, anyways, your point here is nonsense, as Sony will have as much to gain with implementing MPEG4 as well. More than likely it has everything to do with having (or not having yet) the necessary software in Sony's case to encode MPEG4 movies. But lets not let facts get in the way, on with the Sony bashing!
Moreover, it has been stated and shown that HD DVD is very close to its 30 GB limit on current movies that are released--and we haven't even seen the 3 hour epics just yet. So, IMO, we have much to benefit in the form of BD-50s--higher picture quality (spare me the linear rant there Murch), more advanced extras, HD extras, games, etc.
So really, what's sad here is the push of misinformation. MPEG4 will more than likely find its way onto Sony titles, it's just a matter of time. Heck we know we're already getting them on Fox and Disney.
Who should we trust iSuppli or Toshiba? Hmmmmmm
Should we trust the disinterested 3rd party or one of the participants? Hmmmmm.
You fail to realize that HD DVD is cheaper to manufacture because of its lineage with DVD.
Yes, because making a mini-PC, including a celeron CPU and DIMM modules, is the cheapest way to implement a set top device...
If you're a movie fan you could have purchased a Blu-Ray player a while ago.
Like you? Bullshit. Not even everyone on AVS has a HD-DVD or BR player yet. This isn't going to change between now and when the PS3 releases.
Vinea
There are no assurance in this battle.
$500 is a lot for a game console that requires HDTV to maximixe the effectiveness. The PS2 didn't come with this encumberance it was also the cheapest way to get into a DVD player at the time. That's not the case today.
If you care about gaming you need to get the $600 unit and I'm betting that HD DVD will be under $399 after CES 2007.
If Blu-Ray loses Disney and Lionsgate before next summer I don't think they'll catchup honestly.
Hmm, I see. $500 is a lot for a game console + Blu-ray player with HDMI 1.3, 1080P output, Dolby TrueHD playback, etc., but when you have hardware that pales in comparison at the same price point in the HD-A1 and HD-A2, the price is all good, huh? Looks like a double standard if I've ever seen one. Especially the one about requiring an HDTV for effectiveness,...WTF? And the $500 HD-A1, and the second generation, $500 HD-A2 don't?...Hahahahahahaha.
What is interesting is that when you DO have hardware that compares to what is in the PS3 from the HD DVD camp, the player is the same price as the (so labeled by some) "expensive" Blu-ray players--$999. Yes, the SECOND-GENERATION HD DVD player (HD-XA2) that has comparable hardware to the PS3 is $999. No mention of that from HD DVD supporters, because it destroys their whole, HD DVD is half the cost of Blu-ray and will always be cheaper argument. But, let's focus on the NOW. The now, because HD DVD supporters have about 4 more weeks to use the "cheaper" player now, the more prevalent number of discs sold now, and my favorite, the better PQ 2 months ago arguments. Not going to hold come 2007.
Tick tock, tick tock...4th quarter is here, Blu-ray is starting to roll well--quality releases, Panny player, 50GB discs, Sony, Pioneer, and Philips players any time now, the PS3 launch, etc., can HD DVD stop the Blu-ray juggernaut? Not likely, IMO.
Plus, there is NO empirical evidence to suggest Lionsgate or Disney will be doing HD DVD. This is more like HD DVD fanboy wishful prayers,...ones that have been going on for eight months now, but we have yet to see anything, I mean anything, materialize. A 25,000 player market of HD DVD players won't make a studio flinch, let alone take on the added cost of making movies for HD DVD. The market forces for HD DVD are simply to weak.
You keep stating that HD DVD has sold 50,000 players, and have provided a poorTGDaily link that provides no source whatsoever as to backing the number they provided in 50,000 players. For the sake of being nice, let's just say they--Toshiba--have sold 50,000 players worldwide, you think that by accomplishing this feat in 5 1/2 months, this will somehow correlate to 200,000 players in another 2 1/2 months with less studio support to boot? Suuuuuuuuure.
However the PS3 doesn't compare to the HD-XA2 as a movie player.
Both have 1080p
Both have HDMI 1.3
But with the XA2 you get
RS-232 for automation control
12-bit 297Khz video dacs
5.1 analog out
Better remote control
A 25,000 player market of HD DVD players won't make a studio flinch, let alone take on the added cost of making movies for HD DVD. The market forces for HD DVD are simply to weak
Blu-Ray sales lag
Lionsgate doesn't seem too happy with sales. Albeit this was in July but not much has really changed. Only a paltry 10k Samsung units sold
http://www.videobusiness.com/index.a...id%3DCA6381191
So I guess the question is why would they stay exclusive to a format that was beaten soundly by %250 in sales and whose competition offers a %300 improvement in movie attachrate?
shock and awe baby.
For all the Sony bashing once again going on in this post, please, you NEED to realize that Sony as well as others in the BDA (Philips, JVC, Panasonic, Apple, Samsung, LG, etc.) are in the patent pool for H.264/MPEG4.
http://www.img.lx.it.pt/~fp/artigos/H264_final.pdf
You can find this information elsewhere as well, but the above link is an interesting but complex read. The information pertaining to patent pool holders can be found on page 19. So, anyways, your point here is nonsense, as Sony will have as much to gain with implementing MPEG4 as well. More than likely it has everything to do with having (or not having yet) the necessary software in Sony's case to encode MPEG4 movies. But lets not let facts get in the way, on with the Sony bashing!
Moreover, it has been stated and shown that HD DVD is very close to its 30 GB limit on current movies that are released--and we haven't even seen the 3 hour epics just yet. So, IMO, we have much to benefit in the form of BD-50s--higher picture quality (spare me the linear rant there Murch), more advanced extras, HD extras, games, etc.
So really, what's sad here is the push of misinformation. MPEG4 will more than likely find its way onto Sony titles, it's just a matter of time. Heck we know we're already getting them on Fox and Disney.
You must have completed reading sony brochure for 100th times. There are other brands supporting BD technology and they have brochures as well...... you could keep reading all about that.....
Or go out and get a BD-Player and couple of BD Titles for yourself and see what I mean. I've actually returned two Sammy BD players and still have couple of BD-Titles to sell you if you want them for 2/3 of the price I paid.