What are you going to tell God, when he asks you why you stubbornly refused to accept the truth as told to you by the Jerk on AI? Ignorance might get you the firery pit you know?
What are you going to tell God, when he asks you why you stubbornly refused to accept the truth as told to you by the Jerk on AI? Ignorance might get you the firery pit you know?
Ahh, the use of fear to produce conformity to ideas. That's a new one. Very well mastered by the Church; believe in what we believe or you will rot, burn, suffer... but we can help you. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
Just do a quick wiki search for Witch Hunt and Friday the 13th to discover how far things can go.
Sorry for the delay. Had to see the second episode this season of Battlestar Galactica.
(Even the religion on New Caprica makes more sense that MarcUK's twisted logic.)
Marc, I can't presume to know what I'm going to be asked at the Judgement, but I'm certain I won't lose any points for not believing what you're selling.
might we loose points if we don't examine it? The part of me that reserves space for the possibility of a god is inclined to believe that since we have the faculties of reason and logic at our disposal which we may use to discern the truth ("uh... what truth exactly are we discerning?" "THE truth! Duh" "eh... riiiiiiight..... THAT one... <rolls eyes>") then if a god exists which created us, and gave us these faculties, then that god would likely expect us to use them, especially since in this day and age a person's religion is generrally most dependent on what they inherrit from family, and since every one tends to say "We're right, and everyone else is mistaken, because our little black book says so, and cause we feel it!". It would not be unreasonable to expect harsher judgement to be passed on those who blindly follow without questioning, than on those who suspend acceptance pending adaquate proof, and in the mean time live in accordance with good principles.
Verily, Verily i tell ye, ye will not lose points at the Judgement, because there isn't going to be a Judgement. Ye need to get a sense of humour, lest thee rot in a pit of ye own making.
Verily, Verily i tell ye, ye will not lose points at the Judgement, because there isn't going to be a Judgement. Ye need to get a sense of humour, lest thee rot in a pit of ye own making.
For we have Judged Our Selves not worthy that we suffer and deny the Unity of God. Who judges the worst and condemns ourselves to sin and death and destruction? We. Hence we too can learn to Judge differently and our True Selves shall unfold beyond all imagination and dreams of damnation. 8)
For we have made the courtroom, and we sit on the Jury and the Judge's chair. We are the bailiff that stands stiffly next to our defendant's cage, which we are also in. And we have read out a sentence so horrible it can only serve to be insane and untrue.
Actually its a 'political' resurrection designed to send the Egytian religion a message that their religion has been superseeded by a more powerful one. "Our God bought your God back to life. Who is more powerful? Who should you really be worshipping?"
everytime i come into the AI general disscussion forum i come and read some of the new posts on this thread and then i ask myself.... why haven't the mods put this one into the appropriate forum?
It seems many people are still misunderstanding my post about the impossibility threshold. I said that is the point where scientists consider something to be impossible. The chances are so far off that it's not even considered probable. Obviously there is that one chance, but the chances of it are so ridiculous that theres no way it could happen. Remember the probability calculated for a single bacterium to form is 1 in 10^100,000,000,000. This numer is from former profesor of biophysics at Yale University, Dr. Harold Morowitz.
The estimated number of electrons in the universe is 10^79.
A comment on the bacterium probability is as follows, by Robert Shapiro, "The improbability involved of generating even one bacterium is so large that it reduces all considerations of time and space to nothingness. Given such odds, the time until the black holes evaporate and the space to the ends of the universe would make no difference at all. If we were to wait, we would truly be waiting for a miracle."
"The spontaneous formation of a polypeptide of the size of the smallest known proteins seems beyond all probability."
-Scientist Harold F. Blum
Frank B. Salsbury calculated that the chances of DNA forming on 1 of 10^20 hospitable planets (the number of planets he guessed there were suitable for life) is 1 in 10^415.
The estimated number of electrons in the universe is 10^79.
Harvard geneticist and evolutionist Richard Lewontin said this:
"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door."
mark most of us aren't so fluent in ancient egyptian. suppose you explain your rock.
Actually, its Assyrian cuneiform, im not too good at a direct translation, but i can give it a shot.
"Friends and lovers, nobility and peasants, our Lord Azar and his consort Meri have given this tablet to ye all so that ye may digest our Lord Azar's wisdom and when ye time comes, ye may rest in the House of Annu with thy Lord. Verily, Verily I tell thee that in 360 times 10 years from now, a great teacher will arise, to do battle with the darkness of the corruption of thy false teachers and his followers. A great teacher will arise from the bosom of thy Lord Azar and his wife Meri to give thy Earth a message from these years. For it had been written that those who have the youth, have the future, so come now children of Horus, be strong and shout at the devil, and listen to the new teacher, and though thee may find his teaching unconventional, verily i tell thee, that when the teacher arrives, the world will be rotten and sour, and the devil will reign strong in the hearts of those who claim to know the words of thy Lord. For they speak of the uplift (Rapture) and the return of Horus, they speak of Judgement and Salvation, yet they know not that these things are not of our Lord Azar's making, and come straight from the bowels of our Lord Azar's assisin to deceive the ignorant. A new teacher will arise in the land of Gorg, and he will set straight the errors of Set, and they will curse him, and even the good of heart will deny him, they will search him out from all directions and try to silence him, but he will have the power of Azar in his heart, and will seek them out until their hearts sob with pity for themselves, he will convert them and they will see their errors and flee from their false teachings. Our teacher will have the name of kucram and the evil in mens heart will fear him wherever he treads."
It gets a bit fragmented after that, something about the teacher kucram rising at 6am and having completed his teachings by 6pm sunset, and how in a single day he taught 6 billion people the errors of their false gods.
It seems many people are still misunderstanding my post about the impossibility threshold. I said that is the point where scientists consider something to be impossible. The chances are so far off that it's not even considered probable. Obviously there is that one chance, but the chances of it are so ridiculous that theres no way it could happen. Remember the probability calculated for a single bacterium to form is 1 in 10^100,000,000,000. This numer is from former profesor of biophysics at Yale University, Dr. Harold Morowitz.
The estimated number of electrons in the universe is 10^79.
A comment on the bacterium probability is as follows, by Robert Shapiro, "The improbability involved of generating even one bacterium is so large that it reduces all considerations of time and space to nothingness. Given such odds, the time until the black holes evaporate and the space to the ends of the universe would make no difference at all. If we were to wait, we would truly be waiting for a miracle."
"The spontaneous formation of a polypeptide of the size of the smallest known proteins seems beyond all probability."
-Scientist Harold F. Blum
Frank B. Salsbury calculated that the chances of DNA forming on 1 of 10^20 hospitable planets (the number of planets he guessed there were suitable for life) is 1 in 10^415.
The estimated number of electrons in the universe is 10^79.
Harvard geneticist and evolutionist Richard Lewontin said this:
"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door."
has anyone ever calculated the odds that in all the vastness of the universe the 2000 year old writings of primitive mankind would be precisely the way it happened?
It seems many people are still misunderstanding my post about the impossibility threshold. I said that is the point where scientists consider something to be impossible.
No, it is you who does not understand. There is no "impossibility threshold" and any "scientist" worthy of the term does not consider things with a probability below 1 * 10^60 (or in fact any number greater than 0) to be impossible. I gave what I thought was a rather intuitive counter-example for this (randomly picking 25 balls out of 1000 individually numbered balls) but it would seem that it went right over your head.
Stuff with vanishingly small probability happens all the time. Imagine a snapshot of the universe 10 seconds ago. Imagine all of the elementary particles that are subject to the laws of quantum dynamics. What was the probability back then of all of those particles being in the state that they are in now? Let me tell you, it is many many many orders of magnitude below your so-called "impossibility threshold" and yet, it has happened.
Anyway, I'm not really sure why you are so keen to try and disprove that life could just spontaneously happen. You shouldn't need to do that. You should have faith in God and not require to prove to yourself that He is the only way things could have happened.
And you haven't answered the question of where you think God came from? If he has "always been" why cannot the universe simply have "always been", providing enough time for the highly improbable to happen. If you find it so difficult to believe that life could "just happen", why do you find it so easy to believe that an omniscient, omnipotent, all-powerful intelligence that can conjure infinite amounts of energy out of nothing (something which I hope you agree is far more complicated than a simple little bit of protein) "just exists"?
God didn't create himelf because he is eternal 1*10^45
God created the universe in 6 days 1*10^100
God created all the rest of the universe for fun and only created life on earth 1*10^230
God chose a special race of his creation to wipe out all the other races he also made 1*10^365
The 'all knowing cant make a mistake' creater of man spends all his time killing, raping and pillaging the people of his screwed up creation, until he thinks of a better way and appears in the flesh as his own son 1*10^666
Gods resurrection actually means something because he suffered knowing full well he gets off scot free and goes back to being god when it is all over 1*10^99999999
Adding together just these few small points gives us a probabilty of God's existance as 1*10^99999999999999999999999999999999999999999 to 1
which is bigger than your scientifically claimed cut off point of ^50 so clearly God does not exist.
Comments
Well done Frank.
What are you going to tell God, when he asks you why you stubbornly refused to accept the truth as told to you by the Jerk on AI? Ignorance might get you the firery pit you know?
Its turtles, all the way down.
Would that make you a Cheloniidaen, or a Dermochelyidaen?
Indeed - Bethany is a place.
Well done Frank.
What are you going to tell God, when he asks you why you stubbornly refused to accept the truth as told to you by the Jerk on AI? Ignorance might get you the firery pit you know?
Ahh, the use of fear to produce conformity to ideas. That's a new one. Very well mastered by the Church; believe in what we believe or you will rot, burn, suffer... but we can help you. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
Just do a quick wiki search for Witch Hunt and Friday the 13th to discover how far things can go.
(Even the religion on New Caprica makes more sense that MarcUK's twisted logic.)
Marc, I can't presume to know what I'm going to be asked at the Judgement, but I'm certain I won't lose any points for not believing what you're selling.
might we loose points if we don't examine it? The part of me that reserves space for the possibility of a god is inclined to believe that since we have the faculties of reason and logic at our disposal which we may use to discern the truth ("uh... what truth exactly are we discerning?" "THE truth! Duh" "eh... riiiiiiight..... THAT one... <rolls eyes>") then if a god exists which created us, and gave us these faculties, then that god would likely expect us to use them, especially since in this day and age a person's religion is generrally most dependent on what they inherrit from family, and since every one tends to say "We're right, and everyone else is mistaken, because our little black book says so, and cause we feel it!". It would not be unreasonable to expect harsher judgement to be passed on those who blindly follow without questioning, than on those who suspend acceptance pending adaquate proof, and in the mean time live in accordance with good principles.
</incoherent>
Verily, Verily i tell ye, ye will not lose points at the Judgement, because there isn't going to be a Judgement. Ye need to get a sense of humour, lest thee rot in a pit of ye own making.
For we have Judged Our Selves not worthy that we suffer and deny the Unity of God. Who judges the worst and condemns ourselves to sin and death and destruction? We. Hence we too can learn to Judge differently and our True Selves shall unfold beyond all imagination and dreams of damnation. 8)
...because there isn't going to be a Judgement.
Prove it.
Prove it.
42...
Prove it.
42...
Good ol' Douglas Adams to the rescue!
Actually its a 'political' resurrection designed to send the Egytian religion a message that their religion has been superseeded by a more powerful one. "Our God bought your God back to life. Who is more powerful? Who should you really be worshipping?"
Woah Jesus kicks ass. Powerful, devine and smart.
mark most of us aren't so fluent in ancient egyptian. suppose you explain your rock.
The estimated number of electrons in the universe is 10^79.
A comment on the bacterium probability is as follows, by Robert Shapiro, "The improbability involved of generating even one bacterium is so large that it reduces all considerations of time and space to nothingness. Given such odds, the time until the black holes evaporate and the space to the ends of the universe would make no difference at all. If we were to wait, we would truly be waiting for a miracle."
"The spontaneous formation of a polypeptide of the size of the smallest known proteins seems beyond all probability."
-Scientist Harold F. Blum
Frank B. Salsbury calculated that the chances of DNA forming on 1 of 10^20 hospitable planets (the number of planets he guessed there were suitable for life) is 1 in 10^415.
The estimated number of electrons in the universe is 10^79.
Harvard geneticist and evolutionist Richard Lewontin said this:
"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door."
mark most of us aren't so fluent in ancient egyptian. suppose you explain your rock.
Actually, its Assyrian cuneiform, im not too good at a direct translation, but i can give it a shot.
"Friends and lovers, nobility and peasants, our Lord Azar and his consort Meri have given this tablet to ye all so that ye may digest our Lord Azar's wisdom and when ye time comes, ye may rest in the House of Annu with thy Lord. Verily, Verily I tell thee that in 360 times 10 years from now, a great teacher will arise, to do battle with the darkness of the corruption of thy false teachers and his followers. A great teacher will arise from the bosom of thy Lord Azar and his wife Meri to give thy Earth a message from these years. For it had been written that those who have the youth, have the future, so come now children of Horus, be strong and shout at the devil, and listen to the new teacher, and though thee may find his teaching unconventional, verily i tell thee, that when the teacher arrives, the world will be rotten and sour, and the devil will reign strong in the hearts of those who claim to know the words of thy Lord. For they speak of the uplift (Rapture) and the return of Horus, they speak of Judgement and Salvation, yet they know not that these things are not of our Lord Azar's making, and come straight from the bowels of our Lord Azar's assisin to deceive the ignorant. A new teacher will arise in the land of Gorg, and he will set straight the errors of Set, and they will curse him, and even the good of heart will deny him, they will search him out from all directions and try to silence him, but he will have the power of Azar in his heart, and will seek them out until their hearts sob with pity for themselves, he will convert them and they will see their errors and flee from their false teachings. Our teacher will have the name of kucram and the evil in mens heart will fear him wherever he treads."
It gets a bit fragmented after that, something about the teacher kucram rising at 6am and having completed his teachings by 6pm sunset, and how in a single day he taught 6 billion people the errors of their false gods.
It seems many people are still misunderstanding my post about the impossibility threshold. I said that is the point where scientists consider something to be impossible. The chances are so far off that it's not even considered probable. Obviously there is that one chance, but the chances of it are so ridiculous that theres no way it could happen. Remember the probability calculated for a single bacterium to form is 1 in 10^100,000,000,000. This numer is from former profesor of biophysics at Yale University, Dr. Harold Morowitz.
The estimated number of electrons in the universe is 10^79.
A comment on the bacterium probability is as follows, by Robert Shapiro, "The improbability involved of generating even one bacterium is so large that it reduces all considerations of time and space to nothingness. Given such odds, the time until the black holes evaporate and the space to the ends of the universe would make no difference at all. If we were to wait, we would truly be waiting for a miracle."
"The spontaneous formation of a polypeptide of the size of the smallest known proteins seems beyond all probability."
-Scientist Harold F. Blum
Frank B. Salsbury calculated that the chances of DNA forming on 1 of 10^20 hospitable planets (the number of planets he guessed there were suitable for life) is 1 in 10^415.
The estimated number of electrons in the universe is 10^79.
Harvard geneticist and evolutionist Richard Lewontin said this:
"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door."
has anyone ever calculated the odds that in all the vastness of the universe the 2000 year old writings of primitive mankind would be precisely the way it happened?
It seems many people are still misunderstanding my post about the impossibility threshold. I said that is the point where scientists consider something to be impossible.
No, it is you who does not understand. There is no "impossibility threshold" and any "scientist" worthy of the term does not consider things with a probability below 1 * 10^60 (or in fact any number greater than 0) to be impossible. I gave what I thought was a rather intuitive counter-example for this (randomly picking 25 balls out of 1000 individually numbered balls) but it would seem that it went right over your head.
Stuff with vanishingly small probability happens all the time. Imagine a snapshot of the universe 10 seconds ago. Imagine all of the elementary particles that are subject to the laws of quantum dynamics. What was the probability back then of all of those particles being in the state that they are in now? Let me tell you, it is many many many orders of magnitude below your so-called "impossibility threshold" and yet, it has happened.
Anyway, I'm not really sure why you are so keen to try and disprove that life could just spontaneously happen. You shouldn't need to do that. You should have faith in God and not require to prove to yourself that He is the only way things could have happened.
And you haven't answered the question of where you think God came from? If he has "always been" why cannot the universe simply have "always been", providing enough time for the highly improbable to happen. If you find it so difficult to believe that life could "just happen", why do you find it so easy to believe that an omniscient, omnipotent, all-powerful intelligence that can conjure infinite amounts of energy out of nothing (something which I hope you agree is far more complicated than a simple little bit of protein) "just exists"?
God didn't create himelf because he is eternal 1*10^45
God created the universe in 6 days 1*10^100
God created all the rest of the universe for fun and only created life on earth 1*10^230
God chose a special race of his creation to wipe out all the other races he also made 1*10^365
The 'all knowing cant make a mistake' creater of man spends all his time killing, raping and pillaging the people of his screwed up creation, until he thinks of a better way and appears in the flesh as his own son 1*10^666
Gods resurrection actually means something because he suffered knowing full well he gets off scot free and goes back to being god when it is all over 1*10^99999999
Adding together just these few small points gives us a probabilty of God's existance as 1*10^99999999999999999999999999999999999999999 to 1
which is bigger than your scientifically claimed cut off point of ^50 so clearly God does not exist.