Maybe im not catering for the general public. Its often humourously stated that 95% of the people are idiots. I've met enough general public to confidently say that 99% of them are idiots.
Where idiots means "people who don't waste their lives pondering drivel".
Infact, this culture of succinctness is what i am fighting against. Bulletpoint society has killed deep rational introspective thinking and made the lot of us mind zombies who are unable to think. And look at the consequences.
[color=orange]Bulletpoint society is better than a society that thinks that the world is flat and the stars a few miles away.[color]
At one end of the scale there are the religious fundies who simply cant think - the idiot savant. Good at one thing only - parrotting someone elses opinion.
At the other end the Scientists, they might appear really smart with their high IQ's, but they too are the idiot savant. Good at only one thing. Parrotting the established facts.
Cite please.
Both cultures have alot in common. Say one thing against the established dogma and you'll be hanged. In both cases what they are teaching is opinion on stuff that is not known.
Sure, that explains why nothing in science or culture has changed in 2,000 years. Oh wait.
What there is in both cases are a couple of good teachers - say Jesus and Einstein - and a rabble of following that cant think for themselves but can memorize everything they ever did or said or worked out. And they appear to be smart because they can bury you in Jesus' sayings or the facts of science.
Or because they understand what Einstein and Jesus were saying and the principles behind them. Or at least for the former, the latter is pretty much floral proverbs without much substance.
But the point of recognising the herostature of Jesus or Einstein is not remembering what they said to the point of religious stupidity, but to get inside and understand the way they thought and why they said it - and most importantly what it means.
This one is precious. Think about what you're saying. EVERYBODY thinks they understand what it means and why they said it.
You cant do that with bulletpoints. All you achieve is to make a stupid population. Jesus didn't give us a bulletpointed 1001 new commandments - he gave us an insight of how he thought - and how we should think. Any moran can learn "love thy enemies" and repeat it till they're blue in the face - but it means something - and then it means something more again up to the point where you realise its dumb to learn what Jesus said - because thats unimportant - but you learn the way Jesus thought and apply it to yourself or life.
Thought that was God.
Same with Einstein, any moran can learn that e=mc2 - but it means something - and then it means something more again. e=mc2 might be somewhat important to remember, but the real lesson is to visualize things like Einstein did.
Just because e=mc^2 is the only thing you know about relativity doesn't mean that's all anybody knows about relativity.
Those fractals I posted are just abstractions of a math expression. There are smarter people than I who can give you a bullet point list of the facts of Chaos i've not even explored yet. Fine, but that picture is an abstraction of something that is more than just the math. - It means something. Profound. Bulletpointed lists of the really smart dont ever touch on this.
Fractals are patterns that sorta look neat. Point?
What does Quantum uncertainty mean? And then what does it really mean. Philosophically. Are the two related? Who knows? Might it mean something?
How about we stick to things that have answers?
Everything religion teaches and everything we know today from Science is one day going to be obsolete. For an awful lot of people who deem themselves to be smart are going to find that they are obsolete too. Except for the people who've learned how to think.
Yeah, us idiots will have to take thinking lessons.
So im not catering for the obsolete. These are coded messages to seek out people who are on the path of knowing how to think and what it means. For everyone else, im quite happy for them in their ignorance to believe im a mentally ill blah'er.
[color=orange]Don't see what you're getting at. /color]
"It is better to live your life as if there are no gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no god, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent god, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist%27s_Wager
A post-modern regurgitation (unwittingly, I'm sure) of the Kalama Sutta.
1. You may believe in God, and if God exists, you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.
Yes, but, your having decide to believe in god for purely mercenary reasons is so selfish as to make this Buddhist's head spin. Surely an omnipotent god would make a hell just for you on principle.
2. You may believe in God, and if God doesn't exist, your loss is finite and therefore negligible.
But you've wasted a lot of motivation and life energy kneeling and praying instead of going out into the world and actually making good things happen*. Or exercising. Morbid obesity isn't such an issue, say in Thailand, Burma or Sri Lanka... :shrug: (btw, meditation != prayer)
This "finite" and "negligible" thing is "only" YOUR PRECIOUS LIFE. Gee, thanks Pascal.
*(Not that there aren't plenty of hideously awful Buddhists that either don't grasp the teaching or just hide their sins behind it. There are good and bad in all groups).
3. You may not believe in God, and if God doesn't exist, your gain is finite and therefore negligible.
But you have plenty of opportunity to live in the present moment and take care of business in the here-and-now instead of gambling on a fool's paradise.
3. You may not believe in God, and if God exists, you will go to hell: your loss is infinite"
If god needs me so bad, he should have skewed the whole Free Will thing a little more in his favor. Is god just like some asshole kid burning ants with a magnifying glass?
I'll stick with quantum physics and Theravada, thanks. I never had a chance, what with the free speech, books, Free Will and teh Internets and Googles. Oh, and if I were god, I'd be pretty pissed at the Big Three, Christianity, Judaism and Islam for messing things up so bad.
<insert the tired retort about atheism and buddhism and famous genocides, etc., below>
And how would that be possible if quantum fluctuations are entirely random?
Somewhere down the line someone is going to put 2 and 2 together and realise that quantum fluctuations aren't random at all - they only appear to be (as you've rightly said) because we don't have the tech to probe this scale and see the big picture of things.
Chaos has to be fundamentally built in to the quantum world - or else I am going to start believing in God.
Here's a big BUMP!
Hey non-believers of chaos influencing quantum read this article out today!. (see pages 4,5 of this thread for reference)
Comments
Maybe im not catering for the general public. Its often humourously stated that 95% of the people are idiots. I've met enough general public to confidently say that 99% of them are idiots.
Where idiots means "people who don't waste their lives pondering drivel".
Infact, this culture of succinctness is what i am fighting against. Bulletpoint society has killed deep rational introspective thinking and made the lot of us mind zombies who are unable to think. And look at the consequences.
[color=orange]Bulletpoint society is better than a society that thinks that the world is flat and the stars a few miles away.[color]
At one end of the scale there are the religious fundies who simply cant think - the idiot savant. Good at one thing only - parrotting someone elses opinion.
At the other end the Scientists, they might appear really smart with their high IQ's, but they too are the idiot savant. Good at only one thing. Parrotting the established facts.
Cite please.
Both cultures have alot in common. Say one thing against the established dogma and you'll be hanged. In both cases what they are teaching is opinion on stuff that is not known.
Sure, that explains why nothing in science or culture has changed in 2,000 years. Oh wait.
What there is in both cases are a couple of good teachers - say Jesus and Einstein - and a rabble of following that cant think for themselves but can memorize everything they ever did or said or worked out. And they appear to be smart because they can bury you in Jesus' sayings or the facts of science.
Or because they understand what Einstein and Jesus were saying and the principles behind them. Or at least for the former, the latter is pretty much floral proverbs without much substance.
But the point of recognising the herostature of Jesus or Einstein is not remembering what they said to the point of religious stupidity, but to get inside and understand the way they thought and why they said it - and most importantly what it means.
This one is precious. Think about what you're saying. EVERYBODY thinks they understand what it means and why they said it.
You cant do that with bulletpoints. All you achieve is to make a stupid population. Jesus didn't give us a bulletpointed 1001 new commandments - he gave us an insight of how he thought - and how we should think. Any moran can learn "love thy enemies" and repeat it till they're blue in the face - but it means something - and then it means something more again up to the point where you realise its dumb to learn what Jesus said - because thats unimportant - but you learn the way Jesus thought and apply it to yourself or life.
Thought that was God.
Same with Einstein, any moran can learn that e=mc2 - but it means something - and then it means something more again. e=mc2 might be somewhat important to remember, but the real lesson is to visualize things like Einstein did.
Just because e=mc^2 is the only thing you know about relativity doesn't mean that's all anybody knows about relativity.
Those fractals I posted are just abstractions of a math expression. There are smarter people than I who can give you a bullet point list of the facts of Chaos i've not even explored yet. Fine, but that picture is an abstraction of something that is more than just the math. - It means something. Profound. Bulletpointed lists of the really smart dont ever touch on this.
Fractals are patterns that sorta look neat. Point?
What does Quantum uncertainty mean? And then what does it really mean. Philosophically. Are the two related? Who knows? Might it mean something?
How about we stick to things that have answers?
Everything religion teaches and everything we know today from Science is one day going to be obsolete. For an awful lot of people who deem themselves to be smart are going to find that they are obsolete too. Except for the people who've learned how to think.
Yeah, us idiots will have to take thinking lessons.
So im not catering for the obsolete. These are coded messages to seek out people who are on the path of knowing how to think and what it means. For everyone else, im quite happy for them in their ignorance to believe im a mentally ill blah'er.
[color=orange]Don't see what you're getting at.
Gah. WHAT'S THE MEANING OF THIS MARK
Gah. WHAT'S THE MEANING OF THIS MARK
dunno, i dont do orange.
A post-modern regurgitation (unwittingly, I'm sure) of the Kalama Sutta.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager#An_application_in_Buddhist_scriptur e
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalama_Sutta
My take:
1. You may believe in God, and if God exists, you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.
Yes, but, your having decide to believe in god for purely mercenary reasons is so selfish as to make this Buddhist's head spin. Surely an omnipotent god would make a hell just for you on principle.
2. You may believe in God, and if God doesn't exist, your loss is finite and therefore negligible.
But you've wasted a lot of motivation and life energy kneeling and praying instead of going out into the world and actually making good things happen*. Or exercising. Morbid obesity isn't such an issue, say in Thailand, Burma or Sri Lanka... :shrug: (btw, meditation != prayer)
This "finite" and "negligible" thing is "only" YOUR PRECIOUS LIFE. Gee, thanks Pascal.
*(Not that there aren't plenty of hideously awful Buddhists that either don't grasp the teaching or just hide their sins behind it. There are good and bad in all groups).
3. You may not believe in God, and if God doesn't exist, your gain is finite and therefore negligible.
But you have plenty of opportunity to live in the present moment and take care of business in the here-and-now instead of gambling on a fool's paradise.
3. You may not believe in God, and if God exists, you will go to hell: your loss is infinite"
If god needs me so bad, he should have skewed the whole Free Will thing a little more in his favor. Is god just like some asshole kid burning ants with a magnifying glass?
I'll stick with quantum physics and Theravada, thanks. I never had a chance, what with the free speech, books, Free Will and teh Internets and Googles. Oh, and if I were god, I'd be pretty pissed at the Big Three, Christianity, Judaism and Islam for messing things up so bad.
<insert the tired retort about atheism and buddhism and famous genocides, etc., below>
meh.
All atheists go to heaven. LOL.
It's plausible until you understand the fundamental concepts of chemistry (pizzas dont create hydrogen and helium atoms). Still funny tho.
I met my wife while eating a pizza, so I have faith in the chemistry that pizzas can create. Amen.
I met my while eating a pizza, so I have faith in the chemistry that pizzas can create. Amen.
im happy you finally met your while. not many people get that chance
Though God created us in His image, I am obviously not on his level! Unless, of course, he can make mistakes like the rest of us...
And how would that be possible if quantum fluctuations are entirely random?
Somewhere down the line someone is going to put 2 and 2 together and realise that quantum fluctuations aren't random at all - they only appear to be (as you've rightly said) because we don't have the tech to probe this scale and see the big picture of things.
Chaos has to be fundamentally built in to the quantum world - or else I am going to start believing in God.
Here's a big BUMP!
Hey non-believers of chaos influencing quantum read this article out today!. (see pages 4,5 of this thread for reference)
http://www.physorg.com/news137248802.html
Then bow down and worship Sir Marc of the UK
Here's a big BUMP!
Hey non-believers of chaos influencing quantum read this article out today!. (see pages 4,5 of this thread for reference)
http://www.physorg.com/news137248802.html
Then bow down and worship Sir Marc of the UK
Did you have to bump the raelians along with it? ha